I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Chris Whealy wrote in :

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.


I think something is wrong here as there are many people who use line
arrays in their home.

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...758&highlight=

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W




--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Rich Andrews. wrote:

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


http://www.symphonysound.com/lit/mcintosh/XR27br.pdf

Rich Andrews. wrote:

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


http://www.symphonysound.com/lit/mcintosh/XR27br.pdf

Rich Andrews. wrote:

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


http://www.symphonysound.com/lit/mcintosh/XR27br.pdf

Rich Andrews. wrote:

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


http://www.symphonysound.com/lit/mcintosh/XR27br.pdf

Chris Whealy wrote in :

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.


I think something is wrong here as there are many people who use line
arrays in their home.

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...758&highlight=

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W




--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Chris Whealy wrote in :

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.


I think something is wrong here as there are many people who use line
arrays in their home.

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...758&highlight=

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W




--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Chris Whealy wrote in :

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.


I think something is wrong here as there are many people who use line
arrays in their home.

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...758&highlight=

http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/XRT30br.pdf


Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W




--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

I use baby line arrays in clubs and small ballrooms with great success. The
optimal minimum distance is less than 5 meters.

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/LS869...ne%20Array.htm

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

http://www.ribbonloudspeakers.com/_wsn/page2.html


"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more
people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the
size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics.
Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

I use baby line arrays in clubs and small ballrooms with great success. The
optimal minimum distance is less than 5 meters.

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/LS869...ne%20Array.htm

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

http://www.ribbonloudspeakers.com/_wsn/page2.html


"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more
people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the
size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics.
Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

I use baby line arrays in clubs and small ballrooms with great success. The
optimal minimum distance is less than 5 meters.

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/LS869...ne%20Array.htm

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

http://www.ribbonloudspeakers.com/_wsn/page2.html


"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more
people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the
size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics.
Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

I use baby line arrays in clubs and small ballrooms with great success. The
optimal minimum distance is less than 5 meters.

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/LS869...ne%20Array.htm

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

http://www.ribbonloudspeakers.com/_wsn/page2.html


"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more
people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the
size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics.
Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical
line array system, but it rapidly became apparent that our
auditorium was too small for such a speaker system.

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

In order to be in the far field, the audience should not be
closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.

No, only for a similarly large array.

Our audience is only 15m away.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

Also, you need a fairly large vertical height in which
to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

WHAT a "such a system"?

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically
large, it does not make much sense to use a line array.

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

Well, I'm only repeating what the L-Acoustic and Martin sales reps told
us when when sent them the plans of our auditorium.

What they probably omitted to tell us was that _their_ line array were
not suitable for our size auditorium, and then generalised that to line
arrays in general.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy, we need to
have a trial run first to actually here what they are like in our
environment. Some companies have been willing to accommodate this,
others have not...

WHAT a "such a system"?

As shipped by L-Acoustic or Martin

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

Would such a setup be suitable for a church auditorium of 2,500m^3 with
the audience sitting between 4m and 15m from speakers hung from the rafters?

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

L-Acousrtic recommended that we trial some 112XT's instead of their line
array speakers. We found that whilst the sound quality could not be
faulted, the people sitting near the back (approx 12m away) had a
comfortable sound leve, whilst the people in the front got drilled.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's created other problems...

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Here's what the SLS (and likely the CGN as well) do (from my previous post):
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Here's what the SLS (and likely the CGN as well) do (from my previous post):
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Here's what the SLS (and likely the CGN as well) do (from my previous post):
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Here's what the SLS (and likely the CGN as well) do (from my previous post):
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Here's what the SLS (and likely the CGN as well) do (from my previous post):
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy,
we need to have a trial run first to actually here what they
are like in our environment. Some companies have been
willing to accommodate this, others have not...

Don't ask me what SLS will do, ask them, or ask George Gleason. From
specs and from assuming that the are a local supplier so that you do not
have to worry about importing to test they seem to be a good idea. I am
glad that you got the points about having been somewhat mislead by some
of the sales people you have encountered.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's

Not optimum for long throw ... not at all optimum. Wide horisontal is
OK, but the vertical pattern must be narrow to get sound projected and
to lift it over the heads of those closest to the array. Veree simply
late night explained.

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

Well, I'm only repeating what the L-Acoustic and Martin sales reps told
us when when sent them the plans of our auditorium.

What they probably omitted to tell us was that _their_ line array were
not suitable for our size auditorium, and then generalised that to line
arrays in general.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy, we need to
have a trial run first to actually here what they are like in our
environment. Some companies have been willing to accommodate this,
others have not...

WHAT a "such a system"?

As shipped by L-Acoustic or Martin

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

Would such a setup be suitable for a church auditorium of 2,500m^3 with
the audience sitting between 4m and 15m from speakers hung from the rafters?

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

L-Acousrtic recommended that we trial some 112XT's instead of their line
array speakers. We found that whilst the sound quality could not be
faulted, the people sitting near the back (approx 12m away) had a
comfortable sound leve, whilst the people in the front got drilled.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's created other problems...

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

Well, I'm only repeating what the L-Acoustic and Martin sales reps told
us when when sent them the plans of our auditorium.

What they probably omitted to tell us was that _their_ line array were
not suitable for our size auditorium, and then generalised that to line
arrays in general.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy, we need to
have a trial run first to actually here what they are like in our
environment. Some companies have been willing to accommodate this,
others have not...

WHAT a "such a system"?

As shipped by L-Acoustic or Martin

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

Would such a setup be suitable for a church auditorium of 2,500m^3 with
the audience sitting between 4m and 15m from speakers hung from the rafters?

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

L-Acousrtic recommended that we trial some 112XT's instead of their line
array speakers. We found that whilst the sound quality could not be
faulted, the people sitting near the back (approx 12m away) had a
comfortable sound leve, whilst the people in the front got drilled.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's created other problems...

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

Well, I'm only repeating what the L-Acoustic and Martin sales reps told
us when when sent them the plans of our auditorium.

What they probably omitted to tell us was that _their_ line array were
not suitable for our size auditorium, and then generalised that to line
arrays in general.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

One of our prerequisites is that whatever speakers we buy, we need to
have a trial run first to actually here what they are like in our
environment. Some companies have been willing to accommodate this,
others have not...

WHAT a "such a system"?

As shipped by L-Acoustic or Martin

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

Would such a setup be suitable for a church auditorium of 2,500m^3 with
the audience sitting between 4m and 15m from speakers hung from the rafters?

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

L-Acousrtic recommended that we trial some 112XT's instead of their line
array speakers. We found that whilst the sound quality could not be
faulted, the people sitting near the back (approx 12m away) had a
comfortable sound leve, whilst the people in the front got drilled.

Also the 90deg conical directivity of the 112XT's created other problems...

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical
line array system, but it rapidly became apparent that our
auditorium was too small for such a speaker system.

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

In order to be in the far field, the audience should not be
closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.

No, only for a similarly large array.

Our audience is only 15m away.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

Also, you need a fairly large vertical height in which
to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

WHAT a "such a system"?

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically
large, it does not make much sense to use a line array.

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical
line array system, but it rapidly became apparent that our
auditorium was too small for such a speaker system.

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

In order to be in the far field, the audience should not be
closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.

No, only for a similarly large array.

Our audience is only 15m away.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

Also, you need a fairly large vertical height in which
to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

WHAT a "such a system"?

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically
large, it does not make much sense to use a line array.

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical
line array system, but it rapidly became apparent that our
auditorium was too small for such a speaker system.

Plain nonsense, put two loudspeakers above oneanother and you have a
vertical line array, a short one, but it is valid.

In order to be in the far field, the audience should not be
closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.

No, only for a similarly large array.

Our audience is only 15m away.

Example, not endorsement: see http://www.slsloudspeakers.com

Also, you need a fairly large vertical height in which
to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

WHAT a "such a system"?

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically
large, it does not make much sense to use a line array.

A ribbon loudspeaker constitutes A line array.

It doesn't have to be a full size stadium PA to constitute a valid line
array, the ones used in that context are btw. bent so that the audience
can still get a balanced sound - and not an insanely loud sound - close
to their "foot".

Chris W


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too
small for such a speaker system.

That would be an economic choice, not a technical choice. Line arrays can be
made to work well in smaller rooms, but of course the line array would then
itself be smaller.

In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line
array.

Actually, there are problems with being too close to a line array of a given
size, but the problem can be solved by using a smaller array.

Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly
large vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building
could not accomodate such a system.

Again, the geometry of line arrays is scalable.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it
does not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line
arrays are excellent for outdoor events.

I've seen line arrays used to great advantage indoors. I've sat reasonably
close to them when they were operating and they remained highly effective.

There are useful things that can be done with arrays and AFAIK only with
arrays - these people were early pioneers:

http://www.duran-audio.com/Products/Intellivox.htm

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley
End House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and
fireworks. There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and
on either side of the stage was a line array column. The sound from
quality was fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire
audience depth (about 500m).

Arrays can provide similar benefits in smaller spaces.

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Other sources:

http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/steering/

http://www.eaw.com/products/DSA/

http://www.audiosystems.ch/live/jbl/...r_englisch.pdf

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too
small for such a speaker system.

That would be an economic choice, not a technical choice. Line arrays can be
made to work well in smaller rooms, but of course the line array would then
itself be smaller.

In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line
array.

Actually, there are problems with being too close to a line array of a given
size, but the problem can be solved by using a smaller array.

Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly
large vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building
could not accomodate such a system.

Again, the geometry of line arrays is scalable.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it
does not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line
arrays are excellent for outdoor events.

I've seen line arrays used to great advantage indoors. I've sat reasonably
close to them when they were operating and they remained highly effective.

There are useful things that can be done with arrays and AFAIK only with
arrays - these people were early pioneers:

http://www.duran-audio.com/Products/Intellivox.htm

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley
End House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and
fireworks. There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and
on either side of the stage was a line array column. The sound from
quality was fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire
audience depth (about 500m).

Arrays can provide similar benefits in smaller spaces.

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Other sources:

http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/steering/

http://www.eaw.com/products/DSA/

http://www.audiosystems.ch/live/jbl/...r_englisch.pdf

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too
small for such a speaker system.

That would be an economic choice, not a technical choice. Line arrays can be
made to work well in smaller rooms, but of course the line array would then
itself be smaller.

In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line
array.

Actually, there are problems with being too close to a line array of a given
size, but the problem can be solved by using a smaller array.

Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly
large vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building
could not accomodate such a system.

Again, the geometry of line arrays is scalable.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it
does not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line
arrays are excellent for outdoor events.

I've seen line arrays used to great advantage indoors. I've sat reasonably
close to them when they were operating and they remained highly effective.

There are useful things that can be done with arrays and AFAIK only with
arrays - these people were early pioneers:

http://www.duran-audio.com/Products/Intellivox.htm

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley
End House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and
fireworks. There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and
on either side of the stage was a line array column. The sound from
quality was fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire
audience depth (about 500m).

Arrays can provide similar benefits in smaller spaces.

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Other sources:

http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/steering/

http://www.eaw.com/products/DSA/

http://www.audiosystems.ch/live/jbl/...r_englisch.pdf

Chris Whealy wrote:

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too
small for such a speaker system.

That would be an economic choice, not a technical choice. Line arrays can be
made to work well in smaller rooms, but of course the line array would then
itself be smaller.

In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line
array.

Actually, there are problems with being too close to a line array of a given
size, but the problem can be solved by using a smaller array.

Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly
large vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building
could not accomodate such a system.

Again, the geometry of line arrays is scalable.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it
does not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line
arrays are excellent for outdoor events.

I've seen line arrays used to great advantage indoors. I've sat reasonably
close to them when they were operating and they remained highly effective.

There are useful things that can be done with arrays and AFAIK only with
arrays - these people were early pioneers:

http://www.duran-audio.com/Products/Intellivox.htm

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley
End House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and
fireworks. There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and
on either side of the stage was a line array column. The sound from
quality was fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire
audience depth (about 500m).

Arrays can provide similar benefits in smaller spaces.

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Other sources:

http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/steering/

http://www.eaw.com/products/DSA/

http://www.audiosystems.ch/live/jbl/...r_englisch.pdf

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Rich Andrews. wrote:
I have been looking at various speaker designs and wondered why more people
don't build or produce vertical arrays. Is it the cost involved or the size
or ??? They certainly seem to have a number of good characteristics. Am I
missing something?

The church I go to recently looked into getting a vertical line array
system, but it rapidly became apparent that our auditorium was too small
for such a speaker system. In order to be in the far field, the
audience should not be closer that 25 to 30 metres from the line array.
Our audience is only 15m away. Also, you need a fairly large
vertical height in which to hang the array, again, our building could
not accomodate such a system.

As great as they are, unless your building is acousically large, it does
not make much sense to use a line array. Alternatively, line arrays are
excellent for outdoor events.

Here in the UK, I went to a "son et lumiere" style evening at Audley End
House last summer, where there was a symphony orchestra and fireworks.
There must have been 15,000 people there that evening and on either side
of the stage was a line array column. The sound from quality was
fantastic, with very little SPL variation over the entire audience depth
(about 500m).

Take a look at http://www.l-acoustics.com/pdfproda/wavefront.zip for
more details on the theory behind line arrays.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--