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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Hi, I'm building a DAW. Are the following parts all compatible and well-suited? motherboard: Abit NF7 (V2.0 nForce2 Socket A 8xAGP LAN USB2 6 ch Sound DDR400 Memory) cpu: AMD Athlon XP2500 333FSB 512 L2 Cache Barton RAM: 256 DDR400 PC3200 Hard drives: Seagate ST3120026A 120gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache Barracuda 7200.7 Plus - OEM Maxtor 6Y080P0 Plus 9 80Gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache ATA133 Hard Drive - OEM IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 Finally, what wattage of PSU do I need? Many thanks, Ally |
#2
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#3
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
PS.. So now it's really down to the choice of mobo and PSU.. but still
I welcome other comments and suugestions, Ally |
#4
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Ally" wrote in message
PS.. So now it's really down to the choice of mobo and PSU.. but still I welcome other comments and suggestions, Motherboard - I'm not comfortable with NForce boards for audio. Power supply - Every time I put a watt meter on a working, fully-tricked-out PC with all the goodies running, I find 100-150 watts being used. I build a ton of machines with 300 watt power supplies and they all work just fine. Of the 100s of machines I've built over the years, I think I built two with 450 watt power supplies, and that's because that's what the cases came with. One of those two cases was the quiet Antec that has been discussed lately. The other was a rack case. |
#5
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:14:34 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "Ally" wrote in message PS.. So now it's really down to the choice of mobo and PSU.. but still I welcome other comments and suggestions, Motherboard - I'm not comfortable with NForce boards for audio. Power supply - Every time I put a watt meter on a working, fully-tricked-out PC with all the goodies running, I find 100-150 watts being used. I build a ton of machines with 300 watt power supplies and they all work just fine. Of the 100s of machines I've built over the years, I think I built two with 450 watt power supplies, and that's because that's what the cases came with. One of those two cases was the quiet Antec that has been discussed lately. The other was a rack case. Good day, Arnie. Thank you for that. That's good to hear. Now all I need is to decide between the two motherboards. Hopefully someone will help me decide soon; I want to place the order! I don't think ther's much in it, but there's definitely going tp be some differences. I'm leaning to the Abit AN7 rather than the Asus A7N8X-X. It's got slightly better user ratings on the supplier's site. (www.ebuyer.com) Ally |
#7
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:35:11 +0200, Norbert Hahn
wrote: DAW. Does that mean digital audio workstation? Yup - last time I looked. :-) Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 Most round IDE cable do not qualify for ATA-133. Flat ribbon cable will perform better but may give some problem with air flow. That's why I picked the ATA-133 *round* cables. What't the problem with them? You may think of serial ATA as lots of disks are now available. Thanks for the suggestion. I thought about it, but couldn;t stretch to the extra cash. Speed of disc access is not a big issue on this machine anyway. Finally, what wattage of PSU do I need? I'm looking at a good-value quest case: Antec Solution Slk3700amb. It has a 350 Watt PSU. Will that be anough for this system? The number of watts is pretty meaningless. The PSU should be able to deliver the required current, so it should be compliant with the CPU you intend to use. OK - thanks for your input.. Ally |
#8
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#9
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:34:40 GMT, (Ally) wrote: IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 I think round IDE cables have now been debunked as a fad that actually DECREASES performance. The sharpest criticism I've heard is that they are only appearance items. Use the flat ones. Agreed. curmudgeon hat on Or what have you got against SATA? Only one device per cable, and only two cable sockets per system board. Most onboard SATA controllers I've run into don't implement hot-swapping. There's little if any price difference now. The cables cost twice as much and do half as much. |
#10
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:10:53 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:34:40 GMT, (Ally) wrote: IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 I think round IDE cables have now been debunked as a fad that actually DECREASES performance. Use the flat ones. Or what have you got against SATA? There's little if any price difference now. There seemed to be quite a premium to pay for a mobo with SATA and likewise for the drives. I was thinking about it, and asked if it was worth the money but no-one replied so I followed my ruling cheapskate instincts and gave it a miss! Oh, well, it;s done now... I placed the order. I had to draw the line somewhere... I gould have spent a bit mopre on this and a bit more on that, but I fugure I'll be content with what I've got. Ally |
#11
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:26:43 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Or what have you got against SATA? Only one device per cable, and only two cable sockets per system board. Most onboard SATA controllers I've run into don't implement hot-swapping. Unlike IDE? :-) There's little if any price difference now. The cables cost twice as much and do half as much. I guess it depends where you get them. When I've bought a SATA-enabled motherboard, it's arrived with a couple of cables. (Though many boards have 4 ports). My local computer-making shop just gets out the box of SATA cables and gives me one if I ask nicely. (As long as I'm buying something as well :-) Are suppliers profiteering from the "new" technology, like some still do with Firewire cables? |
#12
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#13
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#14
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:26:43 -0400, "Arny Krueger" wrote: Or what have you got against SATA? Only one device per cable, and only two cable sockets per system board. Most onboard SATA controllers I've run into don't implement hot-swapping. Unlike IDE? :-) http://www.naspa.com/PDF/2003/1103/T0311003.pdf page 2 paragraph 2-4 There's little if any price difference now. The cables cost twice as much and do half as much. I guess it depends where you get them. When I've bought a SATA-enabled motherboard, it's arrived with a couple of cables. Sure, but you *paid* for them (Though many boards have 4 ports). Seems like, still haven't had one in my hands. My local computer-making shop just gets out the box of SATA cables and gives me one if I ask nicely. Sure, but you *paid* for them (As long as I'm buying something as well :-) Are suppliers profiteering from the "new" technology, like some still do with Firewire cables? The prices I've seen aren't ripoffs, but you end up paying at least twice as much. |
#15
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:31:46 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Sure, but you *paid* for them (Though many boards have 4 ports). Seems like, still haven't had one in my hands. My local computer-making shop just gets out the box of SATA cables and gives me one if I ask nicely. Sure, but you *paid* for them That's twice you've said that! Yeah sure. I paid for them. But if I'd paid an inflated retail price I was getting the motherboard VERY cheaply :=-) |
#16
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
In article , Norbert Hahn wrote:
(Ally) wrote: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:56:16 GMT, (Ally) wrote: motherboard: DAW. Does that mean digital audio workstation? PS.. Slight revision of my OP: Abit NF7 (V2.0 nForce2 Socket A 8xAGP LAN USB2 6 ch Sound DDR400 Memory) /////////// You may replace that placebo by some good recording device. [snip] IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 Most round IDE cable do not qualify for ATA-133. Flat ribbon cable will perform better but may give some problem with air flow. You may think of serial ATA as lots of disks are now available. Nonsense, most round IDE cable are just flat 80 conductor cabling folded up nicely into a rounded housing. Finally, what wattage of PSU do I need? I'm looking at a good-value quest case: Antec Solution Slk3700amb. It has a 350 Watt PSU. Will that be anough for this system? The number of watts is pretty meaningless. The PSU should be able to deliver the required current, so it should be compliant with the CPU you intend to use. Norbert |
#17
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#18
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#19
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:10:53 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:34:40 GMT, (Ally) wrote: IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 I think round IDE cables have now been debunked as a fad that actually DECREASES performance. Use the flat ones. L, Thanks for the advice on that. However, the round cables I ordered are actually flat cables that have been sort of folded up nicely into a round housing.... (judging by the picture).. Or what have you got against SATA? There's little if any price difference now. That suggests to me that it's not all it's cracked up to be... I think someone commented that hard drives are limited in speed by their mechanical limitations, regardless of whether ATA or SATA is being used. However, if someone had told me that in three years time ATA gear will be no longer available and everything will be SATA, then I would certailnly have paid the extra. Ally |
#20
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:10:53 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:34:40 GMT, (Ally) wrote: IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 I think round IDE cables have now been debunked as a fad that actually DECREASES performance. Use the flat ones. Or what have you got against SATA? There's little if any price difference now. I also hear opinions that SATA is not yet as reliable as ATA. Ally |
#21
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:00:02 GMT,
(GMAN) wrote: In article , wrote: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:14:26 GMT, (GMAN) wrote: Nonsense, most round IDE cable are just flat 80 conductor cabling folded up nicely into a rounded housing. Thanks for the comment. Indeed, that is what the ones I ordered appear to be. That's a relief! Ally IMHO i consider them better than flat since they usually have a foil shielding under the tubing, at least mine did. Thanks for that. I'll find out if mine are shielded when they arrive. If so, I'll be delighted, because I read that most data errors attributed to cables (flat or round) are caused by electro-magnetic fields coming from *outside* the cables (from drives, etc)... Ally |
#22
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Ally" wrote in message
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:10:53 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:34:40 GMT, (Ally) wrote: IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 I think round IDE cables have now been debunked as a fad that actually DECREASES performance. Use the flat ones. Or what have you got against SATA? There's little if any price difference now. I also hear opinions that SATA is not yet as reliable as ATA. The connectors are more fragile than their predecessors. |
#23
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Ally" wrote in message
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:10:53 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:34:40 GMT, (Ally) wrote: IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 I think round IDE cables have now been debunked as a fad that actually DECREASES performance. Use the flat ones. L, Thanks for the advice on that. However, the round cables I ordered are actually flat cables that have been sort of folded up nicely into a round housing.... (judging by the picture).. True. Or what have you got against SATA? There's little if any price difference now. That suggests to me that it's not all it's cracked up to be... I think someone commented that hard drives are limited in speed by their mechanical limitations, regardless of whether ATA or SATA is being used. However, if someone had told me that in three years time ATA gear will be no longer available and everything will be SATA, then I would certailnly have paid the extra. I think that in 3 years ATA equipment will be pretty much out of new production, and the replacments for ATA drives will mostly be SATA drives with ATA-SATA adaptors. Ally |
#24
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
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#26
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:14:26 GMT, (GMAN) wrote: Most round IDE cable do not qualify for ATA-133. Flat ribbon cable will perform better but may give some problem with air flow. You may think of serial ATA as lots of disks are now available. Nonsense, most round IDE cable are just flat 80 conductor cabling folded up nicely into a rounded housing. Having carefully separated the 40 active strands with grounded ones, they then roll them up to push them back into as close proximity as possible. Some say this degrades performance. The cables I've seen like this cut the cable into strips. But the results are about the same. There should be some increase in capacitance. |
#27
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:14:26 GMT, (GMAN) wrote: Most round IDE cable do not qualify for ATA-133. Flat ribbon cable will perform better but may give some problem with air flow. You may think of serial ATA as lots of disks are now available. Nonsense, most round IDE cable are just flat 80 conductor cabling folded up nicely into a rounded housing. Having carefully separated the 40 active strands with grounded ones, they then roll them up to push them back into as close proximity as possible. Some say this degrades performance. The cables I've seen like this cut the cable into strips. But the results are about the same. There should be some increase in capacitance. Well, the transistors in the buffer chips must be able to source the increased current required for the increased capacitance. Extra shielding adds more capacitance. So the performance depends on both the board (IDE controller) and the disk. Norbert |
#28
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Norbert Hahn" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote: "Laurence Payne" wrote in message On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:14:26 GMT, (GMAN) wrote: Most round IDE cable do not qualify for ATA-133. Flat ribbon cable will perform better but may give some problem with air flow. You may think of serial ATA as lots of disks are now available. Nonsense, most round IDE cable are just flat 80 conductor cabling folded up nicely into a rounded housing. Having carefully separated the 40 active strands with grounded ones, they then roll them up to push them back into as close proximity as possible. Some say this degrades performance. The cables I've seen like this cut the cable into strips. But the results are about the same. There should be some increase in capacitance. Well, the transistors in the buffer chips must be able to source the increased current required for the increased capacitance. Sure, I'm sure that most controllers have plenty of current margins. Extra shielding adds more capacitance. IME the 80 wire cables provided better shielding than the old 40 wire cables did. So the performance depends on both the board (IDE controller) and the disk. Well, we're in the SATA era, so IDE cables are getting kinda moot. |
#29
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Ally wrote:
Hi, I'm building a DAW. Are the following parts all compatible and well-suited? motherboard: Abit NF7 (V2.0 nForce2 Socket A 8xAGP LAN USB2 6 ch Sound DDR400 Memory) cpu: AMD Athlon XP2500 333FSB 512 L2 Cache Barton RAM: 256 DDR400 PC3200 Hard drives: Seagate ST3120026A 120gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache Barracuda 7200.7 Plus - OEM Maxtor 6Y080P0 Plus 9 80Gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache ATA133 Hard Drive - OEM IDE cables: Round IDE cable Ata133 x3 Finally, what wattage of PSU do I need? Whatever hard drive you decide on, you will need two - one for OS/Applications, and one for audio data (installed on separate IDE channels). As you will doubtlessly be adding a CD/DVD writer ( on the same IDE cahannel as the primary HDD) , I would suggest a PSU of at least 350W capacity. And I've heard that the flat ribbons are better than the trendy 'round' IDE cables. geoff |
#30
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Ally wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:14:26 GMT, (GMAN) wrote: Nonsense, most round IDE cable are just flat 80 conductor cabling folded up nicely into a rounded housing. Thanks for the comment. Indeed, that is what the ones I ordered appear to be. That's a relief! But coiled potential DOES increase crosstalk in comparison with flattened. geoff |
#31
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:10:10 GMT, (Ally) wrote: Or what have you got against SATA? There's little if any price difference now. That suggests to me that it's not all it's cracked up to be... I think someone commented that hard drives are limited in speed by their mechanical limitations, regardless of whether ATA or SATA is being used. However, if someone had told me that in three years time ATA gear will be no longer available and everything will be SATA, then I would certailnly have paid the extra. Suddenly you're subscribing to "more expensive is better"? :-) Yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if parallel ATA goes the way of the parallel printer port in 3 years. But that's a long time in computing. Yeah, but then somebody will figure that if you put 8 SATA lines in parallel, you can transfer a whole byte at 8 times the speed of one SATA ..... ;-) geoff |
#32
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:38:41 +1200, "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote: Whatever hard drive you decide on, you will need two - one for OS/Applications, and one for audio data (installed on separate IDE channels). As you will doubtlessly be adding a CD/DVD writer ( on the same IDE cahannel as the primary HDD) , I would suggest a PSU of at least 350W capacity. Why? After protracted argument elsewhere, we've established that when LOADING a recording application, Windows may readjust the part of paged memory which is dumped to disk. But there's no evidence that, on a computer with sufficient memory installed, there will be continual access of the hard drives by Windows or the application, other than to stream audio data. |
#33
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:38:41 +1200, "Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote: Whatever hard drive you decide on, you will need two - one for OS/Applications, and one for audio data (installed on separate IDE channels). As you will doubtlessly be adding a CD/DVD writer ( on the same IDE cahannel as the primary HDD) , I would suggest a PSU of at least 350W capacity. Why? After protracted argument elsewhere, we've established that when LOADING a recording application, Windows may readjust the part of paged memory which is dumped to disk. But there's no evidence that, on a computer with sufficient memory installed, there will be continual access of the hard drives by Windows or the application, other than to stream audio data. 1 - Some applications dymanically load and unload modules during recording, especially if playing back trax at the same tiume. 2 - Neat and tidy. geoff |
#34
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:49:25 +1200, "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote: 1 - Some applications dymanically load and unload modules during recording, especially if playing back trax at the same tiume. Really? Actually DURING RECORDING? What could an application suddenly require half-way through a recording? We set up the effects we need - then run the recording. Have a look at what happens when you load an application. There's a re-adjustment of what Windows kernel code needs to be in unpaged memory. Everything else loads into paged memory. There is the potential that this may be dumped to disk, if RAM runs short. But this is really ancient history. We design our DAW with sufficient RAM so that paging to disk won't be required. This happened when we were running programs in 16MB of memory, 15 years ago. Now we install amounts of RAM that are huge compared to the size of program code. Paging to disk just doesn't happen. (Note that "unpaged memory" is a small region kept independent of Windows' virtual memory system. Everything else is "paged memory". But not paged to disk. Unless you're grossly low on physical memory.) 2 - Neat and tidy. More so than a folder or partition on the same drive? |
#35
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Laurence Payne wrote:
Really? Actually DURING RECORDING? What could an application suddenly require half-way through a recording? We set up the effects we need - then run the recording. Well I concede that you should really have all load, run, and unnecessary services killed off, but most users don't. More so than a folder or partition on the same drive? Yep. You can uplug the data drive, take it to another machine, and still use both machines. geoff |
#36
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:20:03 +1200, "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote: More so than a folder or partition on the same drive? Yep. You can uplug the data drive, take it to another machine, and still use both machines. I guess users who want to do this would buy an external Firewire drive or the like? Preferable to constantly dismantling their computers. |
#37
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:20:03 +1200, "Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote: More so than a folder or partition on the same drive? Yep. You can uplug the data drive, take it to another machine, and still use both machines. I guess users who want to do this would buy an external Firewire drive or the like? Preferable to constantly dismantling their computers. Yes, Firewire or USB-2 are the current solutions, and fine solutions they are. I guess SATA's hot-plug feature (largely not implemented in equipment on the market at this time) would make the third alternative. Hot-plug SCSI is old news, and that would be the fourth (or is it first, chronologically?) alternative. |
#38
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Bulding a DAW.. how about these components?
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:20:03 +1200, "Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote: More so than a folder or partition on the same drive? Yep. You can uplug the data drive, take it to another machine, and still use both machines. I guess users who want to do this would buy an external Firewire drive or the like? Preferable to constantly dismantling their computers. I turn a key, pull a handle and withdraw the tray, and I'm away laughing. Takes all of 3 seconds. No cables to lose. geoff |
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