[Harry Lavo]

Every so often I get caught up in the nostalgia for the good old days, as
in.... "Remember when stereo was cheap, and every college kid had one, and
every young couple starting out could afford the best.....".

Well last night just for fun I pulled up on screen the 1961 Radio Shack
Catalog and the Bureau of Labor Statistics Price Calculator (inflation
adjuster) and set to work to determine just how different the good old days
were. I've summarized here because I can't post a spreadsheet, but if you
want to email me at I'll send this and another
spreadsheet (comparing tube amps then and now) off
to you by the end of the weekend.

The first system, which I call "Middle Class Audiophile" is what I and my
contempory audiophiles were buying after we got out of college when we all
had decent jobs, but not yet any family (or at least a very young
one...usually the first child). The second system which is what I call
Upper Class Audiophile is what the audio savvy doctors and layers of the day
were buying. Neither of these are mass-market systems.....they are as
assembled by folks who were "into audio" at the time.

The first system consisted of Dynakit Electronics (PAS3, Stereo 70,
Dynatuner) built from kits, AR2a louspeakers, a Garrard Model A turntable
with Shure M7D stereo cartridge, and if we were into tape, and "affordable"
Tape Deck such as the Webcor or lower end Superscopes. In those days, such
a system cost about $630 ($850 if you wanted the tape deck as well). At
todays prices, the system would cost $4243 without, and $5833 with, tape
deck. Buying the kits wired, or substituting name brand integrateds such as
Scott, Fisher, Sherwood, etc. would add another $600-800 at todays prices.
Not cheap, but not out of reach today for those meeting those
demographics.......

The second system consisted of the Citation tube series (IV Preamp, II
Stereo Amp, III Tuner) feeding a pair of AR3's mated to Electrostat 3
Tweeters, fed by a Thorens TD124 turntable hosting an ESL arm and a Shure
M3D cartridge. If a tape deck was added, it would most likely be a Tandberg
Model 6. The cost of this system back then was $1351/1849 and in todays
terms $9764/13364.

Obviously, there were wild outliers back in 1961 as well as today, but these
were pretty representative systems.

During these same decades, the top 2-5% of this country in income have
prospered; the remainder of households have had incomes stay flat or decline
in inflation-adjusted terms, despite nearly all these households having to
devote more work-hours (mostly coming from more women working) to just
staying even.

I'd be very interested in what others consider comparable systems today,
what the gathered statistics show about systems today (John A, perhaps you
can chime in here), and what this data means to you (if anything) given your
own personal history.

I have my own view of what this comparison suggests, but I'd rather hear
from others their reaction before I reveal my own opions. Have at it!

--
Harry Lavo
Holyoke, MA

[bob]

I spent $500 on my first stereo system in 1978. That's about $1650
today. But what you could buy today for even $500 just blows away what
what available on the kind of budget a college kid had back then.

Some of that is the digital revolution. Whatever you think about
analog, the kinds of turntables the Tech Hifis of the world were
throwing into their budget systems couldn't hold a candle to a modern
DVD player. Receivers are at least twice as powerful. And speakers
have definitely improved as well.

Now, that's not high end. But I suspect that for $1650 today, you
could assemble a system that would give an awful lot of 1970s "high
end" systems a run for their money.

bob

[Peter Wieck]

On Nov 19, 7:50=A0pm, "Harry Lavo" wrote:


Every so often I get caught up in the nostalgia for the good old days, as
in.... =A0"Remember when stereo was cheap, and every college kid had one,=
and
every young couple starting out could afford the best.....".

[ excessive quoting snipped -- dsr ]

I'd be very interested in what others consider comparable systems today,
what the gathered statistics show about systems today (John A, perhaps yo=
u
can chime in here), and what this data means to you (if anything) given y=
our
own personal history.

I have my own view of what this comparison suggests, but I'd rather hear
from others their reaction before I reveal my own opions. =A0Have at it!

--
Harry Lavo
Holyoke, MA

Hmmmmm....

My first stereo (1974) was an AR amp, AR4x speakers, Pioneer PL12
turntable w/M91E cartridge. Later joined by a Dynaco FM3 tuner. Total,
including the tuner, set me back $400. I was a scrounger even then.

Still have _those_ speakers and they still remain in frequent use
(Radio Room). Several FM3s and two AR amps (but not those). My TTs are
now HK/Rabco and Revox and my cartridges Ortophon - but the sentiment
remains the same and the scrounging continues. I have my eye on a pair
of TOL Maggies owned by a neighbor 2 doors down soon to move into a
much smaller abode. He is aware of my unabashed interest. His Scott
tube equipment sitting in his closet had also caught my eye - but I
have connected him with a Japanese collector who appears to be willing
to pay well into 4 figures and handle all shipping, much more than I
will.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message


I'd be very interested in what others consider comparable
systems today, what the gathered statistics show about
systems today (John A, perhaps you can chime in here),
and what this data means to you (if anything) given your
own personal history.

As I pointed out in another post, the electronic core of a great-sounding
2-channel system can still be obtained for less than $200. No speculation
here, I'm talking about components that I am using in my main system today.

Using the approximate 14% factor you used in your post Harry, that would be
about $30 in 1961 money. Needless to say, we're talking a positively scary
improvement in value for some very high-performance basics.

100 wpc amplifiers pretty much didn't exist for home audio in 1961, and
today they are commodities. Cars roll out of showrooms with OEM systems
that have a number of them. Ca. $300 HTPC combos have up to 6 of them.

CD and DVD puts levels of playback performance that simply did not exist
inside or outside the recording session in the early 60s into everybody's
living room for less than $100. Even Blu Ray players can be had for under
$150.

On balance, we're still strugglying with the program material - mostly the
mixing and mastering. But that is not the result of a hard core technogical
limitation. It comes down to people.

As far as speakers go, value is a little harder to estimate, as speaker
performance is more difficult to quantify. My recollection is that in the
early-mid-1960s one could pick up a pair of AR-3s for about $400-450 a pair
at low-cost retail sources like E.J. Korvette. Less than ten years later,
you could get remarkably close to them performance-wise with the Larger
Advents in vinyl-covered MDF and change from $200.

If you're talking about speakers with clean, dynamic full-range response
down to 40 Hz and useful response down to 32 Hz, I'm not sure you can do
much better today.

The market has shifted away from large inexpensive full-range speakers with
extended bass response towards very compact speakers with 60-80 Hz bass
extension.

We now use subwoofers if we want true bass extension. Clean response down to
32 Hz with dynamic range that is adequate for now but was rare and costly in
the 1960s still starts around $500 and goes up.

[Fred.]

On Nov 19, 7:50=A0pm, "Harry Lavo" wrote:
Every so often I get caught up in the nostalgia for the good old days, as
in.... =A0"Remember when stereo was cheap, and every college kid had one,=
and
every young couple starting out could afford the best.....".

Well last night just for fun I pulled up on screen the 1961 Radio Shack
Catalog and the Bureau of Labor Statistics Price Calculator (inflation
adjuster) and set to work to determine just how different the good old da=
ys
were. =A0 I've summarized here because I can't post a spreadsheet, but if=
you
want to email me at I'll send this and another
spreadsheet (comparing tube amps then and now) off
to you by the end of the weekend.

The first system, which I call "Middle Class Audiophile" is what I and my
contempory audiophiles were buying after we got out of college when we al=
l
had decent jobs, but not yet any family (or at least a very young
one...usually the first child). =A0The second system which is what I call
Upper Class Audiophile is what the audio savvy doctors and layers of the =
day
were buying. =A0Neither of these are mass-market systems.....they are as
assembled by folks who were "into audio" at the time.

The first system consisted of Dynakit Electronics (PAS3, Stereo 70,
Dynatuner) built from kits, AR2a louspeakers, a Garrard Model A turntable
with Shure M7D stereo cartridge, and if we were into tape, and "affordabl=
e"
Tape Deck such as the Webcor or lower end Superscopes. =A0In those days, =
such
a system cost about $630 ($850 if you wanted the tape deck as well). =A0A=
t
todays prices, the system would cost $4243 without, and $5833 with, tape
deck. =A0Buying the kits wired, or substituting name brand integrateds su=
ch as
Scott, Fisher, Sherwood, etc. would add another $600-800 at todays prices=
..
Not cheap, but not out of reach today for those meeting those
demographics.......

The second system consisted of the Citation tube series (IV Preamp, II
Stereo Amp, III Tuner) feeding a pair of AR3's mated to Electrostat 3
Tweeters, fed by a Thorens TD124 turntable hosting an ESL arm and a Shure
M3D cartridge. =A0If a tape deck was added, it would most likely be a Tan=
dberg
Model 6. =A0The cost of this system back then was $1351/1849 and in today=
s
terms $9764/13364.

Obviously, there were wild outliers back in 1961 as well as today, but th=
ese
were pretty representative systems.

During these same decades, the top 2-5% of this country in income have
prospered; the remainder of households have had incomes stay flat or decl=
ine
in inflation-adjusted terms, despite nearly all these households having t=
o
devote more work-hours (mostly coming from more women working) to just
staying even.

I'd be very interested in what others consider comparable systems today,
what the gathered statistics show about systems today (John A, perhaps yo=
u
can chime in here), and what this data means to you (if anything) given y=
our
own personal history.

I have my own view of what this comparison suggests, but I'd rather hear
from others their reaction before I reveal my own opions. =A0Have at it!

--
Harry Lavo
Holyoke, MA

I agree that the good old days weren't. I'm always amazed at how much
more for the same real dollars I can get on the next system. The same
applies to media. A quality LP was $4 - $6 in the early 60's. What
is that, $24 - $36 at today's prices. And SACD's aren't nearly as
difficult to to keep nice.

Fred.