Arny Krueger wrote:

What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
natural sound want such a thing?




Some people dislike the sound of op-amps. Some op-amps try to correct
serious defects
in their design with lots of negative feedback. The class B output
stages in many op-amps
can have traces of crossover distortion products even after NFB. Some
op-amps can
be made to act as if they are "single ended" if you connect a resistor
from the output to
either a negative or a positive supply of DC of around 20V. The
resistor should draw
current thruout the entire audio waveform.

"Keith G" wrote in message


"Choky" wrote in message
...

****in' idiotic RAO conversation!

Well didn't you notice that it was cross-posted to RAO at the point you
responded to it, Choky?

welcome to RATubes

welcome to RAO!

we are here too ****in' civilized so we need sometimes polution from
other world................

You don't recognize a troll when you see one?

dear Mr. Arni and satelites-why don't ya just **** off

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

?????????????????????????????????????????????

Don't he just bring out the best in everybody?

As if the cross-post wasn't a set-up.

This Choky (RAT regular) is one of the nicest people on Usenet...

Yeah, sure.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"dave weil" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


"Öökintölli" wrote in message
om


Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
tube processor.

There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the
size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a solid
state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and distortion
enhancers slapped on, right before the output terminals. Why would
someone who is interested in pure natural sound want such a thing?

Just to **** you off?


If you're observing that the original post was probably just a troll...

;-)

No, I don't think it was an intentional troll. However, I think it was
very naive of the OP to cross-post his question to r.a.o.

Oh well. I'm sure he'll know better next time.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Arny Krueger wrote:
[...]


It's not pollution, it's an attempt at clearing the waters of ignorant
Luddite, anti-digital, anti-solid state, anti-modern-technology extremism.

Hm... I wonder... (goes to check message source)... Yup, I thought so.

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Fred Nachbaur said to ****-for-Brains:

No, I don't think it was an intentional troll. However, I think it was
very naive of the OP to cross-post his question to r.a.o.

Oh well. I'm sure he'll know better next time.

Indeed. One sliming by the Krooborg is enough for any Normal.

Choky wrote:
****in' idiotic RAO conversation!
welcome to RATubes
we are here too ****in' civilized so we need sometimes polution from other
world................
dear Mr. Arni and satelites-why don't ya just **** off
?????????????????????????????????????????????

Well, in all fairness to Arny, Dave, and crew, it wasn't they who
crossposted to r.a.o, uk.r.a. and r.a.t.

It was rather indiscretion on the part of the original poster, which
unfortunately has been perpetuated. (And no, I won't be the one to
attempt to stop the crossposting. Doesn't work.)

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

"Öökintölli" wrote in message
. ..
Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.

My system is:

Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers

Art Audio Diavolo amp

CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp

RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge

McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners

Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck



What are the ones worth checking out?



Öökintölli

ToobZ!

If you're into DIY, there's some interesting projects described at
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTri...6/indexeng.htm that
would likely fit the bill.

"Öökintölli" wrote in message
. ..
Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.


I'd like to thank everyone except Arny Krueger for helping me map out my
choices for a new tube rig. It is really cool to hear from esteemed audio
personalities such as Robert Deutsch and Kalman Rubinson on Usenet. It is
too bad that they don't participate more frequently. But maybe one blessed
day someone will put a cap on Krueger and the audio groups will flourish
again. I pray for it every night.

I'm thinking of retaining my Sony DVP-NS999ES for DVD playback and getting
one of the ModWright Absolute Truth modded Sonys. (Thanks Mr. Deutsch!)

The problem is that I cannot decide whether I should go with the SCD-1 or
the XA-777ES. A friend of mine who has both without any mods says that the
SCD-1 sounds better with CD's but the XA-777ES sounds better with SACD's and
can do multi-channel SACD audio. But I'm not sure if this matters once the
mods are in place. My friend also says that the SCD-1 disc loading is
painfully slow. Anyone have experience with both machines, modded or not?

Thanks!


Öökintölli

ToobZ!

In article ,
Fred Nachbaur wrote:

MiNe 109 wrote:
In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:


MiNe 109 said:


Passive I-V conversion sounds so much better ...... than any op-amp/SS !!
Even a step-up tranny is an option ....... without the use of a tube ....

You're reading this in RATech, aren't you?

I knew there was an invisible newsgroup in that list. But I
thought it was the one where Krooger believes he has unfettered
license for ****fulness without fear of "humiliation".


That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.

Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
the joke. ???

It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
transition".

Stephen

MiNe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Fred Nachbaur wrote:

[...]

That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.

Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
the joke. ???


It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
transition".

Stephen

LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...

.... to I.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Arny Krueger wrote:
If you use a player with a current-output-DAC you can add a real
tubed gain stage !!


Which amounts to being a thermionic noise and distortion enhancer. If you
carry this thinking to the dinner table, you just add a little arsenic to
your food because it enhances the flavor.

I think you just stole the "biggest douche in the universe award" from
John Edwards.


Adam

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:20:07 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
wrote:



MiNe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Fred Nachbaur wrote:

[...]

That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.

Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
the joke. ???


It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
transition".

Stephen

LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...

... to I.

After hitting how many bars? 12? Won't you be drunk by then?

In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:20:07 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
wrote:

MiNe 109 wrote:

It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
transition".

LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...

... to I.

After hitting how many bars? 12? Won't you be drunk by then?

I guess that's why they call it the blues.

Stephen

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message


[...]

If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the
knees" Weil, then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a
carrot.

This is getting interesting. Precisely how did you manage to determine
the IQ of a carrot?


Since IQ test results are always imprecise, looking for precise means would
always be fruitless.

Haha, good comeback.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

dave weil wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:20:07 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
wrote:



MiNe 109 wrote:


In article ,
Fred Nachbaur wrote:


[...]

That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.

Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
the joke. ???


It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
transition".

Stephen

LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...

... to I.


After hitting how many bars? 12? Won't you be drunk by then?

Letsh shee... I went from C to F to G7 to D7 to A7 to E7 to B7 to F#7 to
Db7 to Ab7 to Eb7 to Bb7 to F7 to...

I need to shleep now. g'nite.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

"Öökintölli" wrote in message ...
Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player

I'm not aware of such a beast. If you must have tubes in your system,
they'll have to be elsewhere.

I assume that if consumer interest in SACD grows, eventually we might
see a tube SACD and/or DVD player marketed as a high-end item. (Same
goes for a DVD-Audio player, if you become interested in that later.)

to replace my current Sony piece
of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.

I'm no expert, but I'm not aware of any products like that for SACD
and DVD. See above.

There are a few tube CD players. You could get one of those now, and
you'd partly achieve your tube goals. You probably have many more CDs
than SACDs, so with the tube CD player you'd probably have tubes at
work most of your listening time.

After you buy the tube CD player, you could hang onto your current
Sony SACD and/or DVD gear, wait until tube SACD and DVD gear appears
(assuming it does appear), and then look at the situation at a later
date.

(I'm not taking sides in any SS vs. tubes debate. Just pointing out
that it's possible to have a tube CD player that you'll probably use
most of the time an might satisfy your goal most of the time.)

My system is:

Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers

Art Audio Diavolo amp

CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp

RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge

McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners

Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck



What are the ones worth checking out?



Öökintölli

ToobZ!

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message


[...]

If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the
knees" Weil, then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a
carrot.

This is getting interesting. Precisely how did you manage to
determine the IQ of a carrot?


Since IQ test results are always imprecise, looking for precise
means would always be fruitless.

Haha, good comeback.

Thanks, Fred. Thanks for your good-natured response to my anti-tube
propaganda.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:17:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message


[...]

If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the
knees" Weil, then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a
carrot.

This is getting interesting. Precisely how did you manage to
determine the IQ of a carrot?


Since IQ test results are always imprecise, looking for precise
means would always be fruitless.

Haha, good comeback.

Thanks, Fred. Thanks for your good-natured response to my anti-tube
propaganda.

Actually, I thought it was his "good-natured response" to your
anti-weil propoganda.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:48:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Neil" wrote in message
om...
"Öökintölli" wrote in message
m...
Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player

I'm not aware of such a beast. If you must have tubes in your system,
they'll have to be elsewhere.


http://www.audaud.com/audaud/APR03/E...uip1APR03.html

No DVD on this, AFAIK.

Kal

"Öökintölli" wrote in message
. ..
Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.

My system is:

Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers

Art Audio Diavolo amp

CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp

RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge

McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners

Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck



What are the ones worth checking out?



Öökintölli

ToobZ!

If you're into DIY, there's some interesting projects described at
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTri...6/indexeng.htm that
would likely fit the bill.

Robert Casey wrote in
:

Arny Krueger wrote:

What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
natural sound want such a thing?




Some people dislike the sound of op-amps. Some op-amps try to correct
serious defects
in their design with lots of negative feedback. The class B output
stages in many op-amps
can have traces of crossover distortion products even after NFB. Some
op-amps can
be made to act as if they are "single ended" if you connect a resistor
from the output to
either a negative or a positive supply of DC of around 20V. The
resistor should draw
current thruout the entire audio waveform.



Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
recording made since about 1980 or so. Mixing boards have many op-amps in
them as do many distribution amps. Personally, I will take a well designed
op-amp circuit over discrete components.

r


--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
4...



Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
recording made since about 1980 or so.

Count me in.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in
news

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
4...



Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
recording made since about 1980 or so.

Count me in.




Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:)

r


--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

Fred Nachbaur wrote in
:



Arny Krueger wrote:
"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in
news

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.3.44...


Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly
every recording made since about 1980 or so.

Count me in.


Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:)


More like a lot of trollism.

;-)

Or maybe it's just that everything worth writing/ producing/ recording
was completed by 1979. ;-)

Cheers,
Fred

I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there are more
tunes to write. (;)

r


--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44
Fred Nachbaur wrote in
:



Arny Krueger wrote:
"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in
news

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
4...


Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly
every recording made since about 1980 or so.

Count me in.


Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:)


More like a lot of trollism.

;-)

Or maybe it's just that everything worth writing/ producing/
recording was completed by 1979. ;-)

Cheers,
Fred

I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there
are more tunes to write. (;)

LOL!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44
Fred Nachbaur wrote in
:



Arny Krueger wrote:
"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in
news

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
4...


Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly
every recording made since about 1980 or so.

Count me in.


Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:)


More like a lot of trollism.

;-)

Or maybe it's just that everything worth writing/ producing/
recording was completed by 1979. ;-)

Cheers,
Fred

I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there
are more tunes to write. (;)

LOL!



As was said in the movie 'Buccaroo Bonzai', "...Laugh monkey boy! Laugh!"
(:)


r



--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

Robot sasses the Krooborg.

I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there
are more tunes to write. (;)

LOL!

As was said in the movie 'Buccaroo[sic] Bonzai[sic]', "...Laugh monkey boy! Laugh!"
(:)

Goodness me. I don't think anybody has ever confused Mr. ****
with a primate before.