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#1
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A sad day for Britain
According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims.
Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. |
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#2
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"Schizoid Man" wrote in message
According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims. Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. Are you sure that they think that this is *their* country? |
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#3
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Schizoid Man said: According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims. Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. I don't find it incomprehensible at all. Maybe they were sleepers, or maybe they were coerced. Or maybe they were weak-minded and the militants co-opted them with rhetoric. Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. |
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#4
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"George Middius" wrote in
message Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. Middius, you're one of the biggest elitests I know of. You're hardly one to accuse others of views that don't represent the downtrodden. |
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#5
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George Middius wrote:
Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. I don't follow. In what way? |
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#6
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Poor little ****borg. Ooops, I mean poor Big ****borg. ;-) Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. Middius, you're one of the biggest elitests No such word. Are you Krooglishing again, Turdy? You're hardly one to accuse others of views that don't represent the downtrodden. You poor dumb beast. Is that the best you can do? I will freely allow that very few individuals are as downtrodden as you are. You really belong in an institution. Lucky for you that you had that insurance to keep you out. How's that hunt for "cantent" coming, Mr. ****? G |
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#7
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Schizoid Man said:
Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. I don't follow. In what way? You're highly educated and highly paid. Like it or not, that has to color your opinions. I wouldn't call you a Hollywood liberal, but the gist is that you have a lot in common with your socioeconomic peers who don't care about the downtrodden. (So do I, of course.) I, like you, am perfectly willing to redistribute some of the property of the wealthy in order to achieve a more equitable arrangement. But I draw the line at redistributing some of my own wealth. Don't you? I feel that even though I make a decent living, I'm a little downtrodden. More so than I am privileged, at least within the context of the USA. At any rate, idealism aside, I'm sure you didn't drag yourself out of the gutter. People who have a background like that are usually extreme liberals or extreme conservatives. |
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#8
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George Middius wrote:
Schizoid Man said: Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. I don't follow. In what way? You're highly educated and highly paid. Like it or not, that has to color your opinions. Undoubtedly it does. But so does my background - my parents left India for a better economic future for themselves and their children, precisely for the same reason that I came to the United States. If I am highly paid, then I only have America to thank for it. Hence, my comment about bombing one's own country. I wouldn't call you a Hollywood liberal, but the gist is that you have a lot in common with your socioeconomic peers who don't care about the downtrodden. (So do I, of course.) I, like you, am perfectly willing to redistribute some of the property of the wealthy in order to achieve a more equitable arrangement. But I draw the line at redistributing some of my own wealth. Don't you? I feel that even though I make a decent living, I'm a little downtrodden. More so than I am privileged, at least within the context of the USA. Perhaps you are. But being a resident of the United States itself makes you among the most privileged citizens in the world. At any rate, idealism aside, I'm sure you didn't drag yourself out of the gutter. Exactly my point. These London bombers were all British Muslims who no doubt had it much better than their parents before them. And they had it better principally because of their adopted country. People who have a background like that are usually extreme liberals or extreme conservatives. I wouldn't classify myself as an extreme liberal at all. Much of my portrayal as a neo-Marxist on this newsgroup stems from my disbelief that Iraq has anything to do with the war on terror. |
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#9
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "George Middius" wrote in message Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. Middius, you're one of the biggest elitests I know of. You're hardly one to accuse others of views that don't represent the downtrodden. I don't have any sympathy for the downtrodden, in fact, I don't like you at all. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#10
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Schizoid Man said: Not to get too personal, but your view of the world, from what I know of it, does not represent the downtrodden. I don't follow. In what way? You're highly educated and highly paid. Like it or not, that has to color your opinions. Undoubtedly it does. But so does my background - my parents left India for a better economic future for themselves and their children, precisely for the same reason that I came to the United States. You're arguing with me by agreeing with me, I believe. If I am highly paid, then I only have America to thank for it. Hence, my comment about bombing one's own country. Oh, is that what you meant. One doesn't know how much gratitude the accused bombers might have for their adopted country. For all we know, they were repeatedly "profiled" and demeaned by the authorities there. Not that such mistreatment justifies mass murder, of course. I wouldn't call you a Hollywood liberal, but the gist is that you have a lot in common with your socioeconomic peers who don't care about the downtrodden. (So do I, of course.) I, like you, am perfectly willing to redistribute some of the property of the wealthy in order to achieve a more equitable arrangement. But I draw the line at redistributing some of my own wealth. Don't you? I feel that even though I make a decent living, I'm a little downtrodden. More so than I am privileged, at least within the context of the USA. Perhaps you are. But being a resident of the United States itself makes you among the most privileged citizens in the world. Again you seemingly argue while agreeing. At any rate, idealism aside, I'm sure you didn't drag yourself out of the gutter. Exactly my point. These London bombers were all British Muslims who no doubt had it much better than their parents before them. And they had it better principally because of their adopted country. I really didn't take that as your original point. Your original point seemed to be that the alleged bombers should be grateful for whatever they received in England, not for what you received in America. And as I noted, we don't know what their life was like before the bombings. People who have a background like that are usually extreme liberals or extreme conservatives. I wouldn't classify myself as an extreme liberal at all. Much of my portrayal as a neo-Marxist on this newsgroup stems from my disbelief that Iraq has anything to do with the war on terror. Exactly my point -- you are somewhat liberal, and everybody except the Bug Eater realizes it. That is why I said you did not crawl out of the gutter. And you have confirmed it, I believe. |
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#11
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:02:34 -0700, Schizoid Man wrote:
According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims. Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. If they all want to blow themselves up, why not just go to nice large empty field. I bet the government would even supply the C4. John ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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#12
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George M. Middius wrote:
Schizoid Man said: At any rate, idealism aside, I'm sure you didn't drag yourself out of the gutter. Exactly my point. These London bombers were all British Muslims who no doubt had it much better than their parents before them. And they had it better principally because of their adopted country. I really didn't take that as your original point. Your original point seemed to be that the alleged bombers should be grateful for whatever they received in England, not for what you received in America. And as I noted, we don't know what their life was like before the bombings. I believe immigrants from countries like India (and possibly, Pakistan) come to Western Europe and North America not for lofty ideals like free speech, freedom from persecution or equality, but for the purpose of pursuing economic security. In this respect, the Indian immigrant is probably different to the Chinese or Cold War-era Eastern European one. My original point was that, like me, I'd have thought that they would've been grateful for what they received in their adopted nation. You're right in saying that we don't know what their life was like before 7/7, but I hardly think it would have been so destitute that bombing innocents into oblivion was the only form of salvation available. |
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#13
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"Schizoid Man" wrote in message ... You're right in saying that we don't know what their life was like before 7/7, but I hardly think it would have been so destitute that bombing innocents into oblivion was the only form of salvation available. From what I have read the one confirmed individual wasn't destitute at all. Had a very nice middle class life and was planning to attend college. Another was 30 with an 8 month old child who wasn't particularly religious according to friends, liked to spend time in the gym. Im sure they will find they crossed paths with a militant cleric in the not to distant past who put them on this course. A situation not too different from one Al-Timimi was trying to create in the US. ScottW |
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#14
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"Schizoid Man" wrote in message ... According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims. Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. **Just as incomprehensible as Tim McVey. Just as incomprehensible as the Columbine killers. Etc. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
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#15
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"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message ... "Schizoid Man" wrote in message ... According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims. Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. **Just as incomprehensible as Tim McVey. Just as incomprehensible as the Columbine killers. Etc. Intentionally taking innocent life is always incomprehensible to all but the insane. ScottW |
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#16
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"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message ... "Schizoid Man" wrote in message ... According to the Guardian, all four bombers were British Muslims. Moreover, this might well the first recorded case of a suicide bombing in Western Europe. It is incomprehensible how these people could want to do this to their own country. **Just as incomprehensible as Tim McVey. Just as incomprehensible as the Columbine killers. Etc. The British Islamists are very comprehensible. In their hearts, Britain is NOT their country. The Columbine killers were comprehensible in the sense that acting against 'their country' wasn't the motivating force. (an irrelevant analogy) Yes, McVey (was your spelling correct?) was incomprehensible, but I get a sense that he felt that 'his country' had strayed so far from his ideal of what it should have been, or what it used to be, that he felt it really wasn't his country anymore. Of course, it's all bs, I certainly don't agree with him, but I am just trying to shed some light on what his thinking might have been like. Columbine and McVeigh probably felt anomie, but I don't think so for the British terrorists. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#17
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Clyde Slick said: Columbine and McVeigh probably felt anomie, but I don't think so for the British terrorists. Yes, I'm sure that for them, as with all islamists, the motivation is "kill all the white devils!" |
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#18
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Typical flamewar - you don't really feel for the Brits, you're too
interested being self-important. Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. Take it elsewhere. George M. Middius wrote: Clyde Slick said: Columbine and McVeigh probably felt anomie, but I don't think so for the British terrorists. Yes, I'm sure that for them, as with all islamists, the motivation is "kill all the white devils!" |
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#19
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wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Margaret |
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#20
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Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW |
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#21
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Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) As compared to a great school like Texas B&S (Bible-thumping and Sheep-shearing)? |
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#22
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"ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret |
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#23
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"Margaret von B." wrote
in message "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php No it is not. Yup being 4th on US News ranking of grad schools means nothing. And if you believe that, you probably think that Maggie is biologically a girl. |
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#24
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Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. ScottW |
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#25
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"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. That list can't be valid in Maggie's eyes because of item 12. |
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#26
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"ScottW" wrote in message ups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. These surveys are dime in a dozen and almost every school has one decent program at some point in time if you slice and dice finely enough and vary the basis of the survey. Only wishful thinkers like you are fooled by them. But whatever little thing it takes to feel good about yourself... The top schools in this country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT and a few others depending on who you ask. Illinois is most definitely NOT one of them. Sorry to burst your bubble. Cheers, Margaret |
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#27
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In article . com,
"ScottW" wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. The music school reportedly has a good chapel organ... Stephen |
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#28
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"Margaret von B." wrote in message . .. wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Illinois was one of the first schools to make itself handicapped accesible. This was 1970, or earlier. My friend got paralized in 1970, and had to transfer from Wisconsin to Illinois, because of that issue ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#29
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... That list can't be valid in Maggie's eyes because of item 12. Oakland University made it???? Bogus! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#30
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"MINe 109" wrote in message ... In article . com, "ScottW" wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. The music school reportedly has a good chapel organ... Stephen Hi Stephen! What is the best organ simulator out there? Both HW and SW solutions count... Thanks! Cheers, Margaret |
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#31
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Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message ups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. These surveys are dime in a dozen and almost every school has one decent program at some point in time if you slice and dice finely enough and vary the basis of the survey. Only wishful thinkers like you are fooled by them. But whatever little thing it takes to feel good about yourself... You consider engineering schools ranking is slicing and dicing? You are clueless. In fact making a school choice based on overall ranking without consideration of the merit for your individual program would be incredibly naive. The top schools in this country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT and a few others depending on who you ask. Illinois is most definitely NOT one of them. Your list might suffice for lawyers or doctors or business folks.... but many of those schools don't make the grade in engineering. Illinois is one of the top engineering schools in the nation and only an absolute idiot would refuse to acknowledge it. I challenge you to find any engineering school ranking that doesn't have Illinois in the top 10 anytime in the last 30 years. Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't be...the truth is not a bubble. ScottW |
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#32
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Aqua Vulva?
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#33
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"ScottW" wrote in message ups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message ups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. These surveys are dime in a dozen and almost every school has one decent program at some point in time if you slice and dice finely enough and vary the basis of the survey. Only wishful thinkers like you are fooled by them. But whatever little thing it takes to feel good about yourself... You consider engineering schools I don't consider engineers. Period. ranking is slicing and dicing? You are clueless. In fact making a school choice based on overall ranking without consideration of the merit for your individual program would be incredibly naive. The top schools in this country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT and a few others depending on who you ask. Illinois is most definitely NOT one of them. Your list might suffice for lawyers or doctors or business folks.... but many of those schools don't make the grade in engineering. Illinois is one of the top engineering schools in the nation and only an absolute idiot would refuse to acknowledge it. I challenge you to find any engineering school ranking that doesn't have Illinois in the top 10 anytime in the last 30 years. Where did it get you? Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't be...the truth is not a bubble. ScottW See above. Cheers, Margaret |
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#34
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ScottW wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message ups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. These surveys are dime in a dozen and almost every school has one decent program at some point in time if you slice and dice finely enough and vary the basis of the survey. Only wishful thinkers like you are fooled by them. But whatever little thing it takes to feel good about yourself... You consider engineering schools ranking is slicing and dicing? You are clueless. In fact making a school choice based on overall ranking without consideration of the merit for your individual program would be incredibly naive. The top schools in this country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT and a few others depending on who you ask. Illinois is most definitely NOT one of them. Your list might suffice for lawyers or doctors or business folks.... but many of those schools don't make the grade in engineering. Illinois is one of the top engineering schools in the nation and only an absolute idiot would refuse to acknowledge it. I challenge you to find any engineering school ranking that doesn't have Illinois in the top 10 anytime in the last 30 years. Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't be...the truth is not a bubble. To Mags, the truth is a carbuncle. |
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#35
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Margaret von B. said to the Terrierborg: I challenge you to find any engineering school ranking that doesn't have Illinois in the top 10 anytime in the last 30 years. Where did it get you? Actually, it probably got Scottie a lot farther than he would have got just by using his wits. A good order-taker who can execute simple plans is the meat and potatoes of big corporations. |
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#36
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... That list can't be valid in Maggie's eyes because of item 12. Oakland University made it???? Inability to read noted. |
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#37
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Arny Krueger wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message ups.com Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. That list can't be valid in Maggie's eyes because of item 12. I must concur with Arny, Maggie. I attended number 12 and Illinois is a as good, if not better, graduate engineering school. I'm not aware how good UIUC is at other disciplines at the graduate level. |
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#38
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Clyde Slick wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message That list can't be valid in Maggie's eyes because of item 12. Oakland University made it???? Bogus! Oakland has a university??? |
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#39
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wrote in message
ups.com ScottW wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message ups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: "ScottW" wrote in message oups.com... Margaret von B. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded. How original! Then again, Illinois isn't exactly a top school.. :-) Actually Margaret... it is. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php ScottW No it is not. Margaret Ok Maggie... you can be obviously stupid if you insist. These surveys are dime in a dozen and almost every school has one decent program at some point in time if you slice and dice finely enough and vary the basis of the survey. Only wishful thinkers like you are fooled by them. But whatever little thing it takes to feel good about yourself... You consider engineering schools ranking is slicing and dicing? You are clueless. In fact making a school choice based on overall ranking without consideration of the merit for your individual program would be incredibly naive. The top schools in this country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT and a few others depending on who you ask. Illinois is most definitely NOT one of them. Your list might suffice for lawyers or doctors or business folks.... but many of those schools don't make the grade in engineering. Illinois is one of the top engineering schools in the nation and only an absolute idiot would refuse to acknowledge it. I challenge you to find any engineering school ranking that doesn't have Illinois in the top 10 anytime in the last 30 years. Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't be...the truth is not a bubble. To Mags, the truth is a carbuncle. More specifically, a genital wart. |
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#40
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Margaret von B. wrote: I don't consider engineers. Period. Poor Maggie... she used to get laid more in her scavenger/cave dweller days. ranking is slicing and dicing? You are clueless. In fact making a school choice based on overall ranking without consideration of the merit for your individual program would be incredibly naive. The top schools in this country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT and a few others depending on who you ask. Illinois is most definitely NOT one of them. Your list might suffice for lawyers or doctors or business folks.... but many of those schools don't make the grade in engineering. Illinois is one of the top engineering schools in the nation and only an absolute idiot would refuse to acknowledge it. I challenge you to find any engineering school ranking that doesn't have Illinois in the top 10 anytime in the last 30 years. Where did it get you? Almost all the BBQ's I want  .ScottW |
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