(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1094751136k@trad...
In article writes:

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.


You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

I think Dylan has some great lyrics, but I have a really hard time
copping what he's saying....same with Bobby P but heh I still enjoyed
his singing.

Analogeezer

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1094751136k@trad...
In article writes:

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.

I'm not defending Alannis (I'm not a big fan) but you could make this
assertation about blues and bluegrass vocalists as well.

Analogeezer

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1094751136k@trad...
In article writes:

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.

I'm not defending Alannis (I'm not a big fan) but you could make this
assertation about blues and bluegrass vocalists as well.

Analogeezer

Andre Majorel wrote:

To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
sound the way they do.

Yup.

Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
language and 2) all the formants are off.

This is true (as most Gilbert and Sullivan operettas will show). But,
I don't think English is any worse than German in this regard. In fact,
I think it's a whole lot better than German. And there is a very large
body of German opera tradition.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Andre Majorel wrote:

To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
sound the way they do.

Yup.

Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
language and 2) all the formants are off.

This is true (as most Gilbert and Sullivan operettas will show). But,
I don't think English is any worse than German in this regard. In fact,
I think it's a whole lot better than German. And there is a very large
body of German opera tradition.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Analogeezer wrote:

You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

"Even a rich man,
Is a pauper at times,
Compared with the man
With a fortified wine."


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Analogeezer wrote:

You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

"Even a rich man,
Is a pauper at times,
Compared with the man
With a fortified wine."


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Kent Kingery wrote:

Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....

...amplified.

...with a large dose of whiny teenage girl thrown in for good measure.


Which is funny, because she's 30.

Kent Kingery wrote:

Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....

...amplified.

...with a large dose of whiny teenage girl thrown in for good measure.


Which is funny, because she's 30.

In article writes:

To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
sound the way they do.

Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
language and 2) all the formants are off.

OK, Mr. Lingist, I'll take your word for it. Is that why it's easier
to understand the words on the record of La Bamba than on Louie Louie?

On the other hand, Cab Calloway sounded fine in front of a band with a
full horn section. And the "heidy-hi-heidy-ho" nonsense words didn't
get in the way of the real lyrics either.

I once recorded an indian pow-wow. After listening to their singing
for three days straight, I got so that I could separate the "filler"
syllables (which is what as kids we sang when we imitated indians)
from the real text. But they couldn't pay me enough to listen to
Alanis Morrisette for three days.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
sound the way they do.

Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
language and 2) all the formants are off.

OK, Mr. Lingist, I'll take your word for it. Is that why it's easier
to understand the words on the record of La Bamba than on Louie Louie?

On the other hand, Cab Calloway sounded fine in front of a band with a
full horn section. And the "heidy-hi-heidy-ho" nonsense words didn't
get in the way of the real lyrics either.

I once recorded an indian pow-wow. After listening to their singing
for three days straight, I got so that I could separate the "filler"
syllables (which is what as kids we sang when we imitated indians)
from the real text. But they couldn't pay me enough to listen to
Alanis Morrisette for three days.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

And there is a very large
body of German opera tradition.

Heh, heh.

Glenn D.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

And there is a very large
body of German opera tradition.

Heh, heh.

Glenn D.

In article writes:

You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
recordings. They must be doing something right.

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
recordings. They must be doing something right.

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


Nobody does.

Mike Rivers wrote:

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


Nobody does.

Don Cooper wrote in
:

Mike Rivers wrote:

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

Nobody does.

It means "I've got these three beats to fill in this song and can't think
of any significant lyrics to put there."

Don Cooper wrote in
:

Mike Rivers wrote:

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

Nobody does.

It means "I've got these three beats to fill in this song and can't think
of any significant lyrics to put there."

In article writes:

Mike Rivers wrote:
But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

Nobody does.


Well, it ain't no town and it ain't no city.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

Mike Rivers wrote:
But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

Nobody does.


Well, it ain't no town and it ain't no city.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:


You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!


Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
recordings. They must be doing something right.

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

-- Fred

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:


You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!


Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
recordings. They must be doing something right.

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

-- Fred

Mike Rivers wrote:

Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
you realize that you don't understand the words.

Peace,
Paul "Take your feet out the sand and stick 'em in the mud"

Mike Rivers wrote:

Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
you realize that you don't understand the words.

Peace,
Paul "Take your feet out the sand and stick 'em in the mud"

in article . net, Mr Natural
at wrote on 9/11/04 8:46 AM:

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

-- Fred

Alright. A Zap comic book fan. I've still got the first five.

Carlos

in article . net, Mr Natural
at wrote on 9/11/04 8:46 AM:

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

-- Fred

Alright. A Zap comic book fan. I've still got the first five.

Carlos

In article writes:

Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
you realize that you don't understand the words.

I've felt the same about some Beatles songs.


"They were scouts in the Rebel Army, and their size was thirty-four"



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
you realize that you don't understand the words.

I've felt the same about some Beatles songs.


"They were scouts in the Rebel Army, and their size was thirty-four"



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"**bg**" wrote in message
news:iK50d.355274$M95.178571@pd7tw1no...
Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop vocal
enunciators and pronouncers of all time.

One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.

Worth studying.

If you say so. Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
universe they occupy.

Do you actually like the way he sounded during the "Rat Pack" era?

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

"**bg**" wrote in message
news:iK50d.355274$M95.178571@pd7tw1no...
Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop vocal
enunciators and pronouncers of all time.

One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.

Worth studying.

If you say so. Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
universe they occupy.

Do you actually like the way he sounded during the "Rat Pack" era?

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

Doc wrote:

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

And the names of those singers were?... g

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

--
ha

Doc wrote:

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

And the names of those singers were?... g

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

--
ha

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Doc wrote:

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on
strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

And the names of those singers were?... g

Sure, that's a truly meaningful statement. I guess since you're implying
that fame and fortune are obvious indicators of talent then Britney Spears
and Madonna must be superb.

Anyone who's been around musicians to any extent knows there are scores of
superb, unheralded talents who are far better and more accomplished at what
they do than many who are famous.

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Doc wrote:

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on
strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

And the names of those singers were?... g

Sure, that's a truly meaningful statement. I guess since you're implying
that fame and fortune are obvious indicators of talent then Britney Spears
and Madonna must be superb.

Anyone who's been around musicians to any extent knows there are scores of
superb, unheralded talents who are far better and more accomplished at what
they do than many who are famous.

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.

Doc wrote:

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.


You'd have to move beyond the concept that what you like is good and
what you don't like isn't good in order to undersand Frank Sinatra's
singing skills. You might appreciate reading up on some of the sessions
in which he sang; that'd give you an idea of what he brought to the
party.

--
ha

Doc wrote:

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.


You'd have to move beyond the concept that what you like is good and
what you don't like isn't good in order to undersand Frank Sinatra's
singing skills. You might appreciate reading up on some of the sessions
in which he sang; that'd give you an idea of what he brought to the
party.

--
ha

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1094751136k@trad...
In article writes:

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.

back in March, i recorded and mixed 6 songs with Alanis for iTunes (3
from the new record and 3 old hits). we did them here in my studio,
and she did not bring her own "sound guy". i did not let them use any
of their standard broadcast rig (Audix mics, ACO DI's and such).

to be honest, i didn't know what to expect going in. but she nailed 6
songs in a row all on the first take. even if you weren't a fan, you
had to be impressed. she does speak and sing with a funny canadian
dialect at times. and she sings kinda weird -- out of the side of her
mouth on certain words. it worked fine on the C12, but i can imagine
some crappy live mics not being so clear. she likes compression and
lots of reverb. in fact, that was the only correction she gave me on
my rough mixes -- she wanted more reverb on the vocal. i was
surprised when she asked for 6ms pre and a 1.7 sec decay (plate). (i
used that as a guideline ;-) i wonder if the TV mix had a combination
of bad mic and reverb problem - on some reverbs short predelays can
mucked up intelligibility.

those songs are for sale now on iTunes as "iTunes Originals" if you
wanna hear for yourself. "Everything" is my favorite of the bunch.
you can even hear the song get better as it goes because it was the
first song in the set and i was adjusting things as she was
performing. those words were the first out of her mouth into the
mic... (no warm up for me to set things up with) but it really was a
great take.

-tE
------------------------------------------
Tony Espinoza
SF SOUNDWORKS
http://www.sfsoundworks.com
------------------------------------------
Featuring the only SSL 9K in San Francisco

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1094751136k@trad...
In article writes:

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.

back in March, i recorded and mixed 6 songs with Alanis for iTunes (3
from the new record and 3 old hits). we did them here in my studio,
and she did not bring her own "sound guy". i did not let them use any
of their standard broadcast rig (Audix mics, ACO DI's and such).

to be honest, i didn't know what to expect going in. but she nailed 6
songs in a row all on the first take. even if you weren't a fan, you
had to be impressed. she does speak and sing with a funny canadian
dialect at times. and she sings kinda weird -- out of the side of her
mouth on certain words. it worked fine on the C12, but i can imagine
some crappy live mics not being so clear. she likes compression and
lots of reverb. in fact, that was the only correction she gave me on
my rough mixes -- she wanted more reverb on the vocal. i was
surprised when she asked for 6ms pre and a 1.7 sec decay (plate). (i
used that as a guideline ;-) i wonder if the TV mix had a combination
of bad mic and reverb problem - on some reverbs short predelays can
mucked up intelligibility.

those songs are for sale now on iTunes as "iTunes Originals" if you
wanna hear for yourself. "Everything" is my favorite of the bunch.
you can even hear the song get better as it goes because it was the
first song in the set and i was adjusting things as she was
performing. those words were the first out of her mouth into the
mic... (no warm up for me to set things up with) but it really was a
great take.

-tE
------------------------------------------
Tony Espinoza
SF SOUNDWORKS
http://www.sfsoundworks.com
------------------------------------------
Featuring the only SSL 9K in San Francisco

In article k.net writes:

[Sinatra] Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
universe they occupy.

The thing is that he always worked with people who made him sound good
so he didn't have to do anything but show up and sing. That's
different from one person who writes a song, plays the guitar and
keyboard and drums and sax, and records it in his basement.

Do you actually like the way he sounded during the "Rat Pack" era?

It's a stylistic thing. If you were into the style, I guess you liked
it. Kind of like Alanis Morisette or Bob Dylan. But it's kind of hard
to find fault with Tony Bennett or Ella Fitzgerald when it comes to
singers.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo