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#41
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
Give me an 'unknown' concert scenario and I'll use a classic analogue desk any day, simply for it's lovely simple control surface. And your "old fart" ways of thinking. And I mean that in the most polite way. : ) What digital consoles have you had experience with? |
#42
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Thomas Bishop wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message Give me an 'unknown' concert scenario and I'll use a classic analogue desk any day, simply for it's lovely simple control surface. And your "old fart" ways of thinking. And I mean that in the most polite way. : ) What digital consoles have you had experience with? Neve. Several models. Graham |
#43
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#44
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#45
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 01:09:42 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote: shannon wrote: I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and Clairs in Philly I was kinda hoping it might not be - but I suspect you're right. Force majuere etc... I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if they are indeed the contractor, Same goes for Clair Bros. Graham but brit row (or other local sound co's) likely aren't responsible for the tv mix (unfortunately) I'll bet all they care about is getting a good live sound, and getting a clean recording so they can make money later. the live tv feed is probably handled by whoever was left after every good engineer was taken up with the rest of the show details. Jason |
#47
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Mike Rivers wrote: In article eqBxe.37009$go.7042@fed1read05 writes: I was just listening to Dave Matthews at Philly and I swear it did the same thing, mono then stereo - it's not random, it was between songs as if it was deliberate. It's possible that they switched to a different feed between songs. Sometimes they do that. Sure ****ed my head up ! Graham |
#48
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Tim S Kemp wrote:
Joe Sensor wrote: I have a new multimedia computer. Watching the concerts on MTV and VH1 and also watching the live streaming feeds on AOL, and the sound is better on AOL. Not bad, about what I would expect for such a diverse concert with many bands and a short time to set each one up. Looking forward to Pink Floyd, shortly. Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd... And it's been such a piece of wank that I forget the addy of the site I'm suppossed to log into to add my name. Graham |
#49
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Joe Sensor wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote: Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd... Sound? Are you kidding" FLOYD ROCKED!! And it sounded awesome. I have it cranked in the studio phones and it sounds incredible!! History in the making. I watched it, and got it captured on my PVR. Floyd still works even after a short break! -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#50
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Pooh Bear wrote:
shannon wrote: I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and Clairs in Philly I was kinda hoping it might not be - but I suspect you're right. Force majuere etc... I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if they are indeed the contractor, Same goes for Clair Bros. Graham Why ? You didn't hear the mix off the sound company console unless you were at the event. Do you have no concept of split microphone feed events ? |
#51
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Ian Gregory wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote: However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office" and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out. Madonna is spot on. No lip-sync error here (DTT off Crystal Palace) but I have seen some cheap Freeview boxes loose audio/video sync for a while then snap back into place. Heh - Pace Puma, so not "cheap" but not reliable either... still at least I can watch it again and again now! -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#52
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Pooh Bear wrote:
I suspect a digital desk is utterly *brilliant* for a West End show or whatever, where the same requirements are placed on it night after night. In fact I can hardly think of a better example of such usage. Give me an 'unknown' concert scenario and I'll use a classic analogue desk any day, simply for it's lovely simple control surface. Heh - my rig (the one I own) has revolved around 2x 01V for about 3 years now, bigger desks being out of budget for me (part timer.. for now) however I often have to work unfamiliar venue with unfamiliar "talent" (often hard to describe as such). Knowing the tool is the important thing - I've never had cock up that can be atributed to the desk with or without a sound check. Used to do a regular (every other month) seated dinner concert type thing, 8 acts in two hours, we'd arrange it as band / solo / band / solo where we could and sound check in the afternoon, no-one else ever got asked to do that gig as no one else locally could provide full recall for sensible money, and the digital setup always did the bands justice, the event (which was semi-posh) was a feedback - free event with FX cuelists and it was great. I still keep my hands in on a couple of analogue rigs too, but I know what I prefer now. -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#53
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Pooh Bear wrote:
So - why wasn't it like that from the start ? I would reckon on it being a fader jock problem - Beeb would have had access to rehearsal tapes from yesterday and probably someone on hand from the big names production teams for the broadcast mix. And of course the headliners would have been much better looked after anyhow. Who's Maccas band? Drummer was pure entertainment! -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#54
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Pooh Bear wrote:
I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if they are indeed the contractor, Would hav ebeen nice to see an Aspect rig... -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#55
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I have not been near a television all day so I haven't seen the staging
for any of the events, but if this is typical of these types of shows there are probably two stages, hence three broadcast trucks. One audio truck for each stage that outputs to a third production truck that handles a stereo music feed and supplemental audio like applause and commentator mics. This truck also takes care of all camera switching and video tape record and playback. One stage sets and line checks while the other is live. Also there is one front of house and monitor console for each stage, and if the act is "heavy" enough they might even have their console present as well. I can't imagine any rehearsal for these events. |
#56
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Paul Matthews wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: That would help, but any competent sound engineer can adapt to another band pretty fast. Maybe that's the issue. I expect the bands have their own engineers.Maybe some of the engineers are not great in this rapid turnaround environment? Also where are the engineers working FOH in the park or offsite for the broadcast? I can't speak for this concert, but what I normally see at these gigs is: The FOH guy is in the park. The monitor guy is backstage. The broadcast guy is in a truck nearby. Feeds come out of the truck to the various broadcast organizations. An FOH feed and an ambient feed might be sent to the various broadcast folks as well, for emergency backup purposes. The FOH is manned by the band's own mix engineer, backed up by a house engineer. If the band does not travel with their own guy, they rely entirely on the house engineer. The truck is manned by a live mix engineer who usually has more of a recording than PA approach to building a mix. If he's good, he has listened to some of the bands' albums a week or two before and knows what the bands are supposed to sound like. Someone from the band might be present in the truck but not if I have anything to do with it. Then the mix will probably be different for the broadcast... Absolutely, there is a special mix made for broadcast. BUT, sometimes things get screwed up and the broadcast guys need to use a backup feed of some kind. My personal favorite was when some audience members at a concert decided to engage in a contest to see how much LSD they could take, and one of them jumped up on stage and started to urinate on the mike splitter. This was back before the trucks had video feeds, and all we could tell is that stuff was crackling and dropping out right and left and the folks on stage were yelling a lot. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#57
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shannon wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: shannon wrote: I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and Clairs in Philly I was kinda hoping it might not be - but I suspect you're right. Force majuere etc... I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if they are indeed the contractor, Same goes for Clair Bros. Graham Why ? You didn't hear the mix off the sound company console unless you were at the event. Do you have no concept of split microphone feed events ? How do they work??? Isn't everything Lightwave / Ethersound / Cobranet or PM1 Linked these days? -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#58
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Tim S Kemp wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within 10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible. Indeedy, however what happens when you mix digital (and my work is much smaller venues than this) is you get used to how your consoles work. Leaving a channel muted is unforgivable analogue or digital. I find most of the inexpensive digital consoles are really, really annoying in that regard. But I have worked on some consoles, like the Capricorn, that made me think digital could be an advance if people just spent some time and money on making a UI that worked. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#59
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Tim Scott wrote: "Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Tim S Kemp wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that - proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at the commencement of a new set....... Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history. It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within 10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible. Digital does rock, and is not so much the future, is is the now. Engineers who don't realise that may as well think about retiring. It all comes down to how good the engineer is controlling the desk, and how good he is at programming it, and how much foresight he has to program it well ... if there is a channel you need access to then you make sure it is accessable from every page, and if the new band are one you are ready on their page, etc. It all comes down to how experienced the engineer is on that desk as to how quick he can get around it, and how good he is at programming it appropriately for the gig. This goes for analog too, though not so much. If everything has been advanced properly, then the desk can be set up before the gig at the engineers home on his laptop. After a couple of months of using a PM1D I find I can get around things quick - I find it easier to flip the desk - so bring all the right side of the desk (channels 25-48) to the left hand side where i am standing, i find this easier and quicker than me moving to the other side of the desk. It took a bit of getting used to to be able to do that, and be able to get my head around the channels moving around, but now i find it so much easier. Don't discount digital desks. IF programmed well they make life easier, and do so much more than an old fashioned desk can, save space and weight etc etc etc I suspect a digital desk is utterly *brilliant* for a West End show or whatever, where the same requirements are placed on it night after night. In fact I can hardly think of a better example of such usage. Give me an 'unknown' concert scenario and I'll use a classic analogue desk any day, simply for it's lovely simple control surface. Graham These aren't unknown concert scenarios for the PA engineers, and mostly not for the broadcast engineers either. The Pink Floyd mix was definitely not done on the fly. The Motley Crue one was not worth doing at all. But the facilities are made available to all the acts, to rehearse and store their settings. Some are better at it than others, I suspect that you would be completely lost, but its not really your game. A digital console is simpler and faster to access than 48 channels of knobs and two racks of outboard effects. you can relabel, re group, reset all the limiters and gates and onboard reverb with a preset change. Which is how you recover your rehearsal mix on a different console 5 minutes after the last act finished. |
#60
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Pooh Bear wrote:
shannon wrote: On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:09:40 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: Tim S Kemp wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that - proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at the commencement of a new set....... Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history. It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within 10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible. However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office" and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out. Yet another digital screw-up. Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular problem ! Madonna is spot on. Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it. She brought her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not actually too surprised. I bet she's done gigs before where they screwed up. As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was going on. Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to sort it out. No you bloody haven't been there Yes I have, but never mind it's incidental. When and where ? |
#61
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Indeedy, however what happens when you mix digital (and my work is much smaller venues than this) is you get used to how your consoles work. Leaving a channel muted is unforgivable analogue or digital. I find most of the inexpensive digital consoles are really, really annoying in that regard. But I have worked on some consoles, like the Capricorn, that made me think digital could be an advance if people just spent some time and money on making a UI that worked. In terms of UI the digico and the yamaha units are very very good. It's a matter of training. At least you don't need to stand on a crate to reach the back of a PM1 surface. Even at the low end of the scale I'm working (24 channels across 2x 01V) mutes are at a glance, lead vocal and host vocal are set recall safe for the mute, and there's a recall undo button for the unsuspecting moments of brain failure. -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#62
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Pooh Bear wrote:
shannon wrote: On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:09:40 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: Tim S Kemp wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that - proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at the commencement of a new set....... Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history. It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within 10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible. However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office" and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out. Yet another digital screw-up. Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular problem ! Madonna is spot on. Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it. She brought her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not actually too surprised. I bet she's done gigs before where they screwed up. As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was going on. Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to sort it out. No you bloody haven't been there Its absolutely clear that you have only done small time local stuff and have never been near a large modern sound company system in a Hyde Park type event doing a simultaneous broadcast otherwise you would be aware that the television mix comes from a split mix to a BBC mobile and off an ENTIRELY different console to whatever the live engineer is mixing on. All the major acts get to rehearse with their consoles and monitors and store all their settings before the events and the live mix would be already dialed in from the start. You appear to have the proverbial rod up your arse ! I have been *personally* a Dept of Environment approved contractor for events in both Hyde Park and Trafalgar Square ! When you've cooled down maybe you'd like to make a more reasoned comment ? Graham Did you mix monitors of front of house or work for any of the sound companies ? If so how come you appear completely unaware that the television mix is entirely separate from whatever the sound company engineers are mixing ? It was the same at the first live aid concert too. |
#63
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between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd...
Sound? Are you kidding" FLOYD ROCKED!! And it sounded awesome. I have it cranked in the studio phones and it sounds incredible!! History in the making. Was Wright there? They didn't really show him on TV, if so. |
#64
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In article , shannon wrote:
These aren't unknown concert scenarios for the PA engineers, and mostly not for the broadcast engineers either. The Pink Floyd mix was definitely not done on the fly. The Motley Crue one was not worth doing at all. But the facilities are made available to all the acts, to rehearse and store their settings. Some are better at it than others, I suspect that you would be completely lost, but its not really your game. A digital console is simpler and faster to access than 48 channels of knobs and two racks of outboard effects. We do it with a second engineer who has a ruled notebook that lists all the parameters for the rough mix of the upcoming act. For something big, it can take a few minutes to repatch everything, even without a lot of outboard effects. And there's always some change at the last minute... somebody has always got another musician sitting in or a setlist change or something like that. If you're lucky, he told the FOH guy. If you're really lucky, he even told you in the truck. The first song for _every_ group always involves a little tinkering. you can relabel, re group, reset all the limiters and gates and onboard reverb with a preset change. Which is how you recover your rehearsal mix on a different console 5 minutes after the last act finished. You can do it by hand. I do agree that the ability to do a recall is a huge advantage of a digital console, or of a digitally-controlled analogue console. The problem is that once that preset is recalled, making changes on the fly can sometimes be an adventure with certain digital consoles that will remain nameless. But this isn't because the consoles are digital per se, just that they were designed by feature-obsessed marketing wanks. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#65
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Tim S Kemp wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Indeedy, however what happens when you mix digital (and my work is much smaller venues than this) is you get used to how your consoles work. Leaving a channel muted is unforgivable analogue or digital. I find most of the inexpensive digital consoles are really, really annoying in that regard. But I have worked on some consoles, like the Capricorn, that made me think digital could be an advance if people just spent some time and money on making a UI that worked. In terms of UI the digico and the yamaha units are very very good. It's a matter of training. See, I find the 02R really irritating. I haven't used any of the newer big Yamaha digital consoles, but the control overloading on the 02R just drives me up the wall. Also it is _very_ easy to screw yourself up with the signal routing functions. You can blame the operator for operator errors, but a simple and easily viewed interface with one control per function makes operator error much less likely when everybody is operating in crisis mode and not thinking very well. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#66
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
See, I find the 02R really irritating. I haven't used any of the newer big Yamaha digital consoles, but the control overloading on the 02R just drives me up the wall. Also it is _very_ easy to screw yourself up with the signal routing functions. 02R was never intended as a live desk, it's control flow is similar to that of an inline 8 buss (even if its surface isn't). 01V / 01V96 / DM1000 / DM200 / PM5 / PM1 are all UI optimised for live use, everything falls to hand. Recently had another engineer using the setuo on a regular basis and only took a few hours to get proficient. -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
#67
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"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... If you think the sound of Live 8 is bad, wait til they screw up the donations! Donations !?! I thought that was "debt relief"... the cancellation of IOU's to the US. Nothing like lining the pockets of corrupt dictators in Africa, never gets to the people. Amounts to the same thing, unfortunately. Just changes the timing around a bit. --Dale |
#68
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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:40:25 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , shannon wrote: These aren't unknown concert scenarios for the PA engineers, and mostly not for the broadcast engineers either. The Pink Floyd mix was definitely not done on the fly. The Motley Crue one was not worth doing at all. But the facilities are made available to all the acts, to rehearse and store their settings. Some are better at it than others, I suspect that you would be completely lost, but its not really your game. A digital console is simpler and faster to access than 48 channels of knobs and two racks of outboard effects. We do it with a second engineer who has a ruled notebook that lists all the parameters for the rough mix of the upcoming act. For something big, it can take a few minutes to repatch everything, even without a lot of outboard effects. And there's always some change at the last minute... somebody has always got another musician sitting in or a setlist change or something like that. If you're lucky, he told the FOH guy. If you're really lucky, he even told you in the truck. The first song for _every_ group always involves a little tinkering. you can relabel, re group, reset all the limiters and gates and onboard reverb with a preset change. Which is how you recover your rehearsal mix on a different console 5 minutes after the last act finished. You can do it by hand. I do agree that the ability to do a recall is a huge advantage of a digital console, or of a digitally-controlled analogue console. The problem is that once that preset is recalled, making changes on the fly can sometimes be an adventure with certain digital consoles that will remain nameless. But this isn't because the consoles are digital per se, just that they were designed by feature-obsessed marketing wanks. --scott Perhaps it was the confusion of this classic analogue interface :-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/thelive8e...#gallery-intro |
#69
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Don Cooper wrote:
Was Wright there? They didn't really show him on TV, if so. Yeah, I don't know what was up with that. Rick was there. You could sure hear him, just couldn't see him. |
#70
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
What digital consoles have you had experience with? Neve. Several models. Graham Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think they made live consoles. Have you ever used one of the new Yamaha's? Or Digico, or Innovason, etc? If not, then all your comments on digital LIVE mixers are completely unsupported. Just because you are afraid of change does not make a new technology inferior. I don't care if you never see the benefits of a digital live console, but don't be surprised when you're left in the digital dust. |
#71
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Thomas Bishop wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message What digital consoles have you had experience with? Neve. Several models. Graham Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think they made live consoles. Indeed they didn't but they set the pattern for control surfaces. Have you ever used one of the new Yamaha's? Or Digico, or Innovason, etc? If not, then all your comments on digital LIVE mixers are completely unsupported. Just because you are afraid of change does not make a new technology inferior. I don't care if you never see the benefits of a digital live console, but don't be surprised when you're left in the digital dust. I see digital mixers simply dying off on account of the useless user interface. There is *no substitute* for a channel strip per input ! Something that digital desk promoters seem to think is *clever* not to have ! If 'Live 8' had happened 15 yrs ago with analogue desks I doubt we'd even be having this conversation. Almost every digital desk has a 'kludgy' user interface. That's what this is about. Unless it was simply a bunch of ****wits doing the sound ? Graham |
#72
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shannon wrote:
Did you mix monitors of front of house or work for any of the sound companies ? I *was* the sound company ! Period ! Get over it ! For your amusement, I mixed the live sound. OK ? Graham |
#73
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Thomas Bishop wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message What digital consoles have you had experience with? Neve. Several models. Graham Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think they made live consoles. They don't. I was involved in the Neve digital project some ~ 16 yrs ago. I was one of the very few of Neve's classic analogue engineers who was even *allowed* to mix with the digital team ! The issue of a *live* console vs any other is moot in the digital domain. Unless Midas come along and finally make a workable control surface for live use ! Have you ever used one of the new Yamaha's? Or Digico, or Innovason, etc? If not, then all your comments on digital LIVE mixers are completely unsupported I've seen them. They all have rather less faders than the number of 'virtual channels'. This is where the nonsence starts. . Just because you are afraid of change does not make a new technology inferior. I don't care if you never see the benefits of a digital live console, but don't be surprised when you're left in the digital dust. I write DSP assembler when I have to ! Don't even think of trying that "I know better than you " trick on me ! Graham |
#74
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 08:57:05 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:
shannon wrote: Did you mix monitors of front of house or work for any of the sound companies ? I *was* the sound company ! Period ! Get over it ! For your amusement, I mixed the live sound. OK ? Graham No, it sounds like you did a small gig a long time ago, and you have no idea what goes on at large simulcast shows within at least the last twenty years, if you think that the sound company is responsible for the broadcast mix. |
#75
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shannon wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 08:57:05 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: shannon wrote: Did you mix monitors of front of house or work for any of the sound companies ? I *was* the sound company ! Period ! Get over it ! For your amusement, I mixed the live sound. OK ? Graham No, it sounds like you did a small gig a long time ago, and you have no idea what goes on at large simulcast shows within at least the last twenty years, if you think that the sound company is responsible for the broadcast mix. I never said *otherwise* ! OTOH I've since been involved with various production companies. I'm not witless about this area you know ! If the guy in the OB truck doesn't have a decent feed he can't make it any better. I'm appalled at the idea that whoever was indeed in the OB truck may have had some decent feeds but had no idea how to use them ! Graham |
#76
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within 10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible. Indeedy, however what happens when you mix digital (and my work is much smaller venues than this) is you get used to how your consoles work. Leaving a channel muted is unforgivable analogue or digital. I find most of the inexpensive digital consoles are really, really annoying in that regard. But I have worked on some consoles, like the Capricorn, that made me think digital could be an advance if people just spent some time and money on making a UI that worked. Capricorn is essentially Neve of course ! Graham |
#77
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Tim S Kemp wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: So - why wasn't it like that from the start ? I would reckon on it being a fader jock problem - Beeb would have had access to rehearsal tapes from yesterday and probably someone on hand from the big names production teams for the broadcast mix. And of course the headliners would have been much better looked after anyhow. Who's Maccas band? Drummer was pure entertainment! Ohhhh - you mean the kit sound had improved from the former sound that I thought involved someome slapping a piece of hardboard ! Graham |
#78
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On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 09:56:31 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:
shannon wrote: On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 08:57:05 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: shannon wrote: Did you mix monitors of front of house or work for any of the sound companies ? I *was* the sound company ! Period ! Get over it ! For your amusement, I mixed the live sound. OK ? Graham No, it sounds like you did a small gig a long time ago, and you have no idea what goes on at large simulcast shows within at least the last twenty years, if you think that the sound company is responsible for the broadcast mix. I never said *otherwise* ! OTOH I've since been involved with various production companies. I'm not witless about this area you know ! If the guy in the OB truck doesn't have a decent feed he can't make it any better. I'm appalled at the idea that whoever was indeed in the OB truck may have had some decent feeds but had no idea how to use them ! Graham I'm just sticking up for the sound companies live sound crew because I know they are not responsible. This is the recording truck normally used by the BBC at Hyde Park http://www.bbcradioresources.com/ob/...ification.html As you can see from its spec, there is no reason that their stereo mix should not be up to scratch, it carries a BSS active split and Nexus digital snake and a 48 Channel SSL with a 32 channel Soundcraft K3 as a submix. |
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shannon wrote:
SSL drool -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Ohhhh - you mean the kit sound had improved from the former sound that I thought involved someome slapping a piece of hardboard ! I think it was meant to sound like it did, that retro overdamped weather king head sound. But to watch, the guy was entertainment. -- "Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?" "Would you rather silent but deadly?" |