I just measured the tracking force of an Audio-Technica AT-PL50 (low-end
turntable also marketed as Radio Shack, Teac, etc.) and found it to be 3.5
grams. The instruction leaflet says 2.5 grams and it doesn't seem to be
adjustable. Nor is it causing a problem.

Has anybody else out there measured one of these? Are they all like that?

mc wrote:
I just measured the tracking force of an Audio-Technica AT-PL50
(low-end turntable also marketed as Radio Shack, Teac, etc.) and
found it to be 3.5 grams. The instruction leaflet says 2.5 grams and
it doesn't seem to be adjustable. Nor is it causing a problem.

Has anybody else out there measured one of these? Are they all like
that?

All of these Audio Technica, Aiwa, Pioneer, Denon etc come out of the same
hole. Not a real turntable so much as a "record player". Plastic junk - no
offense intended. They were designed as low-cost replacements for people who
haven't played their records in almost 20 years, not as any sort of a
serious record playing medium.

To answer your question - yes, all these similar-appearance Chinese-built
tables are like that. There would be others marketed by smaller companies
which would be better, but most of these are manual types.

Personally I would look for a decent Technics direct drive from about the
mid-seventies to mid-eighties time frame.

Mark Z.

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
et...
mc wrote:
I just measured the tracking force of an Audio-Technica AT-PL50
(low-end turntable also marketed as Radio Shack, Teac, etc.) and
found it to be 3.5 grams. The instruction leaflet says 2.5 grams and
it doesn't seem to be adjustable. Nor is it causing a problem.

Has anybody else out there measured one of these? Are they all like
that?

All of these Audio Technica, Aiwa, Pioneer, Denon etc come out of the same
hole. Not a real turntable so much as a "record player". Plastic junk - no
offense intended. They were designed as low-cost replacements for people
who haven't played their records in almost 20 years, not as any sort of a
serious record playing medium.

To answer your question - yes, all these similar-appearance Chinese-built
tables are like that. There would be others marketed by smaller companies
which would be better, but most of these are manual types.

Personally I would look for a decent Technics direct drive from about the
mid-seventies to mid-eighties time frame.

This is not my main turntable. I have a considerably better one.

My question was not whether these are highly regarded, but whether they
uniformly have a greater tracking force than specified in the documentation.
Has anybody else measured one?

"mc" wrote ...
I just measured the tracking force of an Audio-Technica AT-PL50
(low-end turntable also marketed as Radio Shack, Teac, etc.) and found
it to be 3.5 grams. The instruction leaflet says 2.5 grams and it
doesn't seem to be adjustable. Nor is it causing a problem.

Has anybody else out there measured one of these?

Seems unlikely.

Are they all like that?

Probably. The sentiment appears to be that you should be
thankful that it even works without ripping your vinyl to
shreds. The concept of "calibration" on something that
does not even support adjustments seems to be somewhat
superfluous.

Well, I'm picking up lots of *attitude* here and no information.

Even low-end equipment is designed by somebody and has measurable
characteristics. I measured the tracking force as 3.5 grams.
Audio-Technica says the tracking force is 2.5 grams. If 3.5 is normal, why
don't they say 3.5 in the documentation?

Even low-end equipment is designed by somebody and has measurable
characteristics. I measured the tracking force as 3.5 grams.
Audio-Technica says the tracking force is 2.5 grams. If 3.5 is normal,
why don't they say 3.5 in the documentation?

Actually, now I can't find *where* A-T says it's 2.5 grams. Maybe I'm
misremembering something.

mc spake thus:

Well, I'm picking up lots of *attitude* here and no information.

Even low-end equipment is designed by somebody and has measurable
characteristics. I measured the tracking force as 3.5 grams.
Audio-Technica says the tracking force is 2.5 grams. If 3.5 is normal, why
don't they say 3.5 in the documentation?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that because they're so
cheaply put together, the mfr. is probably happy when the tracking force
is anywhere in the range of, say, 2 to 5 grams.

How about the old trick of putting weight (pennies, lead, etc.) on the
back end of the arm?


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"

"mc" wrote ...
Well, I'm picking up lots of *attitude* here and no information.

Even low-end equipment is designed by somebody and has measurable
characteristics. I measured the tracking force as 3.5 grams.
Audio-Technica says the tracking force is 2.5 grams. If 3.5 is
normal, why don't they say 3.5 in the documentation?

Note that they also don't give the tollerance in the
documentation. 3.5g is within 40% of 2.5g :-)
You seem to have far higher expectations of this
equipment than most of us.

Not clear why you would even subject your recordings
to something like this, unless they have no value?

Not clear why you would even subject your recordings
to something like this, unless they have no value?

Why would this turntable damage recordings?

I'm not trying to sound naive. But 3.5 g is not an absurd tracking force
for a conical stylus. The turntable tracks well and sounds good. What
audible faults should I be listening for? (Other than low price, which is
apparently, in some people's opinion, completely fatal to sound quality?)

"mc" wrote in message
...
Even low-end equipment is designed by somebody and has measurable
characteristics. I measured the tracking force as 3.5 grams.
Audio-Technica says the tracking force is 2.5 grams. If 3.5 is normal,
why don't they say 3.5 in the documentation?

Actually, now I can't find *where* A-T says it's 2.5 grams. Maybe I'm
misremembering something.

Could be a typo. Also, if the turntable has no calibration, then the
tracking force will be whatever the actual weight of the cartridge is, minus
the force of the spring or counterweight. However, even the cheapest
turntables I have seen provide some way to adjust the tracking force.
Usually, it's an adjustable spring with a screw adjustment, or that you can
move to different anchor points, or removable weights in the tonearm head.

Finally, I think people obsess over tracking force too much. Not enough
tracking force is probably worse than excess tracking force (although
putting $0.50 in nickels on the tonearm to prevent skipping is probably
overdoing it :-).

mc wrote:
Not clear why you would even subject your recordings
to something like this, unless they have no value?

Why would this turntable damage recordings?

I'm not trying to sound naive. But 3.5 g is not an absurd tracking
force for a conical stylus. The turntable tracks well and sounds
good. What audible faults should I be listening for? (Other than
low price, which is apparently, in some people's opinion, completely
fatal to sound quality?)

It won't necessarily damage the records, not right away anyhow. I guess all
us oldies around here just can't accept the lower quality these days. A
150.00 or so turntable ought to be a bit better, even in this day and age.

Some old Decca cartidges tracked at around 5 grams, and were very well
regarded cartridges - even sometimes get hundreds of $$$ on eBay. And I
think you are correct that a conical stylus is less likely to damage the
groove at these tracking forces.

There really isn't much of a practical possibility of adding weight at the
rear, as another poster suggested. Too short at the rear, with almost no
mass at the rear of the pivot.

Mark Z.

"Karl Uppiano" wrote in message
news:7PD0g.3914$oQ2.2209@trnddc05...

Could be a typo. Also, if the turntable has no calibration, then the
tracking force will be whatever the actual weight of the cartridge is,
minus the force of the spring or counterweight. However, even the cheapest
turntables I have seen provide some way to adjust the tracking force.
Usually, it's an adjustable spring with a screw adjustment, or that you
can move to different anchor points, or removable weights in the tonearm
head.

Useful information. I was thinking the same thing... They must have made
some provision for such things as changing the exact type of cartridge used
during the manufacturing run.

(I remember a screw-adjustment spring on my old Garrard 440M. I'll look for
a similar mechanism, but hidden, on this one.)

Finally, I think people obsess over tracking force too much. Not enough
tracking force is probably worse than excess tracking force (although
putting $0.50 in nickels on the tonearm to prevent skipping is probably
overdoing it :-).

I agree. I remember the P-mount era, when the lowest-end turntables (with
no vibration isolation) were trying to track at 1.0 gram (at least until
anyone heavier than a medium-sized cat would walk by). And I agree
wholeheartedly that bad tracking wears records more than correct tracking at
heavier than optimal pressure. In the 1930s, tracking force was 60 grams!

Thanks very much for being willing to address the question I asked rather
than merely deplore the existence of a low-end turntable. This is not my
"good" turntable, but it works surprisingly well for its price (which was
$58, delivered!).

Not clear why you would even subject your recordings
to something like this, unless they have no value?

Why would this turntable damage recordings?

I'm not trying to sound naive. But 3.5 g is not an absurd tracking
force for a conical stylus. The turntable tracks well and sounds
good. What audible faults should I be listening for? (Other than
low price, which is apparently, in some people's opinion, completely
fatal to sound quality?)

It won't necessarily damage the records, not right away anyhow. I guess
all us oldies around here just can't accept the lower quality these days.
A 150.00 or so turntable ought to be a bit better, even in this day and
age.

I think what's getting everybody is that compared to the old days, today's
cheap gear is partly worse and partly a lot better. Compare SLR cameras,
Nikon D50 versus classic Mamiya/Sekor 1000 DTL. The Mamiya is all metal;
the Nikon has lots of plastic. If you handle the autofocus mechanism while
it's powered off, the Nikon actually looks flimsy. But it takes great
pictures and runs circles around the Mamiya for reliabilty.

Similarly... This $58 turntable (that's what it cost me, delivered, as a
refurb from www.jr.com) has a nice, quiet, smooth belt drive with a servo
motor. Lack of rumble is confirmed by measurements I've made. That would
have marked it as a high-end turntable 30 years ago. The cartridge is
respectable by the standards of the old days. On the other hand, the total
mass of the turntable is low, and the tone arm is straight and lacks
adjustments.

Some old Decca cartidges tracked at around 5 grams, and were very well
regarded cartridges - even sometimes get hundreds of $$$ on eBay. And I
think you are correct that a conical stylus is less likely to damage the
groove at these tracking forces.

There really isn't much of a practical possibility of adding weight at the
rear, as another poster suggested. Too short at the rear, with almost no
mass at the rear of the pivot.

So I noticed; no way to reach anything behind the pivot.

I'm not sure 3.5 grams is incorrect; I couldn't actually find the
documentation that said 2.5 when I looked again, so maybe 3.5 is what they
meant.

In , on 04/16/06
at 03:16 PM, "mc"
said:


I just measured the tracking force of an Audio-Technica AT-PL50
(low-end turntable also marketed as Radio Shack, Teac, etc.) and
found it to be 3.5 grams. The instruction leaflet says 2.5 grams and
it doesn't seem to be adjustable. Nor is it causing a problem.

Has anybody else out there measured one of these? Are they all like
that?

I haven't seen one of these turntables. Other units in this class use
springs to set the tracking force. Assuming that the manufacturer has
some production control, the spring can be chosen to match the
cartridge currently supplied.

Check the cartridge tracking force recommendation. If the 3.5 grams is
within the cartridge spec (hopefully near the high end) I think that
the manufacturer changed the cartridge, set the arm for the cartridge,
and forgot to update the documentation.

Depending on the manufacturer's mind set, a 50% tolerance on tracking
force could be the norm.

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"mc" wrote in message


My question was not whether these are highly regarded,
but whether they uniformly have a greater tracking force
than specified in the documentation. Has anybody else
measured one?

Let's put it this way - you can hurt a lot more records with 1 gram too
little force than 1 gram too much force. Mistracking is very ugly in both
the long and short terms.

Check the cartridge tracking force recommendation. If the 3.5 grams is
within the cartridge spec (hopefully near the high end) I think that
the manufacturer changed the cartridge, set the arm for the cartridge,
and forgot to update the documentation.

In fact, Audio-Technica tells me that 3.5 is correct for this version of the
cartridge and the turntable. I'm not quite sure where I got the 2.5
figure... possibly from an earlier version of the documentation.

Thanks for responding.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"mc" wrote in message


My question was not whether these are highly regarded,
but whether they uniformly have a greater tracking force
than specified in the documentation. Has anybody else
measured one?

Let's put it this way - you can hurt a lot more records with 1 gram too
little force than 1 gram too much force. Mistracking is very ugly in both
the long and short terms.

In fact, it looks as if Audio-Technica increased the force for this
turntable recently. Looking at online reviews, I see some people
complaining of skipping when someone walks by or there is a slight
vibration. Mine doesn't do that.