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#1
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? |
#2
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
This has to be the most nonsensical claim I've evr heard.
Do a search on the placebo effect. Fuses don't do ANYTHING to the sound. What a friggin moron. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:21:35 -0500, Walt
wrote: wrote: Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Let me guess: It sounds much more warm without the fuse. LOL. Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? You could burn up the power supply, or it could catch on fire. Put the damn fuse back in. You can't fight Darwin. He'll only find some other way to fry himself. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: wrote: Let me guess: It sounds much more warm without the fuse. LOL. No, I wouldn't describe it as that. Without going into minute details, the overall resolution is much higher. Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? You could burn up the power supply, or it could catch on fire. Put the damn fuse back in. Could you describe just what condtions would cause the power supply to burn up or catch on fire (I would not have thought this component to be flammable!)? As I say, I've been running it a couple of hours so far and there's been no change. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I had previously removed the heatsink from the output transistors in order to improve the sound, and there was never any overheating problem. |
#7
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote:
This has to be the most nonsensical claim I've evr heard. Do a search on the placebo effect. Fuses don't do ANYTHING to the sound. What a friggin moron. Do you always talk like this to people in real life, or only when safely ensconced behind a computer? Because if you do, I imagine you have no teeth by now, and its probably hard for you to type anything. As for "the most nonsensical claim I ever heard", you only display your extreme ignorance in matters of audio. First off, I didn't make any "claim" on anything, I only mentioned what I did and heard in order to find out more about the process. Secondly, there are FAR more "nonsensical sounding claims" than the idea that fuses contribute to sonic degradation. That doesn't make those claims false. It just means you are an ignorant clueless asswipe, and you're better off shutting your piehole when certain subjects on audio are discussed that you dont know **** all about. You haven't even heard the effect of what you are stupidly criticizing, in order to realize what an ignorant asswipe you are in the first place. For one thing, Yves Bernard André has fuses custom made for his amplifiers, and his amplifiers are unanimously praised as sounding quite excellent. YOU are the one that needs to "do the research" on the sonic effects of fuses, since you're the one misguided by false information. When you can design amplifiers of this calibre, you might have something relevant to say here. But since you don't have anything useful to contribute to the world, please refer back to my earlier advice about shutting your ignorant piehole. Thank you. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: wrote: Walt wrote: wrote: Could you describe just what condtions would cause the power supply to burn up or catch on fire (I would not have thought this component to be flammable!)? As I say, I've been running it a couple of hours so far and there's been no change. Fuses are for protection in case something goes wrong. As long as nothing goes wrong, you don't need them at all. In that respect, they're like seatbelts or smoke detectors. But if you do need them, you really want to have them. Put the fuse back in. If you don't know enough about electronics to understand how a fuse works you shouldn't be messing around inside the case. All I'm asking is for information on what conditions would cause the amp to catch on fire (ie. what exactly can go wrong and what exactly is flammable inside an amp) so I can do a risk assessment and decide how likely the risk of fire is. If you understand how a fuse works yourself, you would be easily able to explain this, other than simply repeating what you've read on a printed circuit board. //Walt |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Well it certainly isn't going to be people like you that others will praise for advancing the state of music reproduction. You're not a heavy thinker but, you make a good follower. I guess. Don Pearce wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 10:30:24 -0800, wrote: Walt wrote: wrote: Let me guess: It sounds much more warm without the fuse. LOL. No, I wouldn't describe it as that. Without going into minute details, the overall resolution is much higher. Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? You could burn up the power supply, or it could catch on fire. Put the damn fuse back in. Could you describe just what condtions would cause the power supply to burn up or catch on fire (I would not have thought this component to be flammable!)? As I say, I've been running it a couple of hours so far and there's been no change. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I had previously removed the heatsink from the output transistors in order to improve the sound, and there was never any overheating problem. What you need to do is remove the heat sink again ( that was a good start). Now pack the heads of matches around the output devices, and fix a can of lighter fluid close to them. Actually, a couple of disposable lighters will do as well. That should achieve the effect you are seeking. Play some music loudly to complete the picture. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
On 24 Jan 2006 10:52:35 -0800, wrote:
I guess. So we can see. I suggest you stop guessing, and start thinking. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message
ups.com Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? Good question for rec.audio.opinion. Ask for Middius. |
#13
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#14
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Best if your in the house when the thing goes up.
You can get your Darwin award....putz. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Don Pearce wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 10:52:35 -0800, wrote: I guess. So we can see. I suggest you stop guessing, and start thinking. Since YOU are the ignoramus talking about a known phenomen that you've never tested and know nothing about, I suggest that YOU stop guessing and start describing the details of your test trials on this effect. Otherwise, shut your trap already, if all you can do is contribute nothing but your ugly dumb ignorance to my thread. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools.
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#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#19
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
On 24 Jan 2006 11:02:02 -0800, wrote:
shut your trap already You issue an instruction to do something, but then put "already" - which means it has actually happened. You need to do a bit of deciding what you mean here. Your English is very nearly as good as your engineering - which comes a close second to your audio perception. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Colin B. wrote: wrote: Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? Given your first paragraph, I'm inclined to say that you should accept the risks and eliminate the fuse. Hopefully it _will_ catch fire, and we'll have one fewer true believer in the newsgroup. Don't worry, I'm not trying to take over your little boys club. That's "little boys" club, and not "little boys club". I would like to take you up on it, but obviously, I can not "accept the risks" if none of you ignorant ****s (you included "Colin B"), are able to describe exactly what conditions would cause a preamp or integrated to "catch on fire", as you keep alleging. Is this why one of your colleagues proposed that i use lighter fluid and matches inside my amp? In order to "prove" how right you are, when it is probably highly unlikely that either of these two devices will "catch on fire"? And if they do "catch on fire", given that one of them is in my baby's room, what kind of stupid SICK ******* are you, that you would want to see a baby DIE?! You're a pure Asshole, you are. Now assuming I don't put vials of lighter fluid in the components, let's see if a true ignoramus like yourself can even name one thing that is flammable inside an amp and will make it "catch on fire", as you allege. DO you even know what solder is made of, moron? Try "metal". Holy cow! That's the same ingredient as what you find in a fuse! Has it ever occured to you, imbecile, that if the metal wire in a fuse breaks and shorts the connection, that this is EXACTLY what will happen to the silver solder wire that I've joined to the two ends of my fuse holder? Try THINKING, instead displaying your infinite igornance, before you post. |
#21
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#22
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#23
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#24
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#26
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Don Pearce wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 11:02:02 -0800, wrote: shut your trap already You issue an instruction to do something, but then put "already" - which means it has actually happened. You need to do a bit of deciding what you mean here. Your English is very nearly as good as your engineering - which comes a close second to your audio perception. d I see that your ability to comprehend English syntax is about as good as your engineering know-how. Especially considering that you are still flapping your gums here but have not been able to explain what will cause my amp to "catch on fire" or that fuses are inaudible or whatever other nonsense that you are trying to blubber out. Obviously, like the rest of the RATs and leeches here, you know nothing about desigining world class amps. You don't even know how a fuse works. Why then have you leeched on to my thread? Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#27
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
On 24 Jan 2006 11:35:40 -0800, wrote:
Don Pearce wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 11:02:02 -0800, wrote: shut your trap already You issue an instruction to do something, but then put "already" - which means it has actually happened. You need to do a bit of deciding what you mean here. Your English is very nearly as good as your engineering - which comes a close second to your audio perception. d I see that your ability to comprehend English syntax is about as good as your engineering know-how. Especially considering that you are still flapping your gums here but have not been able to explain what will cause my amp to "catch on fire" or that fuses are inaudible or whatever other nonsense that you are trying to blubber out. Obviously, like the rest of the RATs and leeches here, you know nothing about desigining world class amps. You don't even know how a fuse works. Why then have you leeched on to my thread? Because despite everything, you are making me laugh. Do drop in a post just before you carry out your big experiment, then when you make no more posts we will all know what has happened - we'll raise a glass to you! d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote:
wrote: Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools. Oh right, right. Why don't we add to that the names of countless other audio engineers and enthusiasts who are all aware of the audibility of fuses. I think you'll find that the number of audio engineers who think fuses are audible is a very small minority of the total. Unless you put the fuse in your ear or something. //Walt |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Thanks Greg. I was having so much fun swatting the ignorant flies that
breed around the **** they create on this newsgroup, I wasn't expecting an intelligent, respectful, and non-ridiculing response like this. Especially so "late in the game" (given that the flies on this group do nothing all day but post here, that means it only takes about 5-10 minutes for a thread to degenerate due to the inherent stupidity of low-level audio techies on the net...). It's always funny for me to see that once you start mentioning you can hear things to wannabe- engineers that they weren't taught in their local college courses, they start freaking out in fits of neuroses. Like babies who've had their security blankets rudely yanked away. They don't even TRY to debate the issue they contend with in the first place (because they actually can't...), they simply make COMPLETE asses out of themselves, because they simply don't know what to do with themselves... Anyway, not sure what you mean by "changing a fuse should do a bunch more than replacing a cord". Bunch more soundwise? Replacing one fuse for the same fuse, or for that of a different rating? As mentioned in my message, I didn't try replacing one fuse for another of the same type, but for that of a different type. I did try reversing the amps original fuse, and found that made an audible difference as well. What I'm still unsure about is: - What is the exact risk involved of changing the rating of a fuse (in my case, 1.6a 125v for a 500mA 250v)? - What is the exact risk involved in using solder wire instead of the original fuse and its filament wire? (Seems to me the solder would burn at an even lower temperature, - Would a transformer damaged by the absence of the original fuse be audibly apparent before leaking currents and creating a risk of shock? - How can I check to be sure my metal case is properly grounded? GregS wrote: In article . com, wrote: Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? Changing a fuse should do a bunch more than replacing a cord, especially a cooroded fuse connection. Relacing any connection is likely to improve the connection. A fuse can help prevent shocks, but there is no guarantee. Damaged transformers could leak currents. Its preferable to have all metal cases grounded, but not all metal cases are grounded. Wood can overheat with damaged components, and may or may not still work. Fires have been started with metal chassis equipment, allthough mostly with ventillated chassis. greg |
#30
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Who said I made amplifiers?
I do work for the largest fuse manufacturer in the worls however... Do your speaker cables have little arrows on them too Bob? P.T. Barnum sure was right... |
#31
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Don Pearce wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 11:35:40 -0800, wrote: I see that your ability to comprehend English syntax is about as good as your engineering know-how. Especially considering that you are still flapping your gums here but have not been able to explain what will cause my amp to "catch on fire" or that fuses are inaudible or whatever other nonsense that you are trying to blubber out. Obviously, like the rest of the RATs and leeches here, you know nothing about desigining world class amps. You don't even know how a fuse works. Why then have you leeched on to my thread? Because despite everything, you are making me laugh. Trust me, I'm not making you laugh even half as much as you are making me laugh. The fact that you have nothing better going on in your life than to hang around newsgroups ridiculing people who's experiences contradict your lack of explanations, makes me laugh at you even harder. Like many of your kind, you're too stupid to realize exactly how stupid you are.. and how stupid you look to those that realize how stupid you are. And like the true hypocrites that you and your kind are known to be, you demand evidence of everything when someone discusses something in audio you've never heard of, but you provide absolutely NONE but your vigorous denials of their empirical trials. Nice show of illustrating just what group of pathetic fools you belong to. Do drop in a post just before you carry out your big experiment, then when you make no more posts we will all know what has happened - we'll raise a glass to you! Indeed! What a surprise that you sound just like the other fool I just read on this group who criticized a well known audiophile publisher (John Atkinson) for ignorance because of something he didn't mention. Not only do people have NOTHING to offer to support your vigorous denials, but in a blinding display of sheer and total ignorance, you make these insane leaps of logic whereby you assume a negative to be a positive.... (that means, translated for a supreme idiot such as yourself, that you are concluding something is true simply for the fact that you do not know it to be untrue. The least I can say about you, is that your twisted, simple-minded kindergarten logic is at least consistent. Since you also believe that in the case of the audibility of fuses, it must not be true, since you do not know it to be true). Are you the official leader of the flies on this newsgroup? Since you seem to consider yourself important enough to state your business in your signature, then you can pass along the official RAT credo to the other ****fly buddies of yours: "We, the flies who hover around mounds of our own ****, believe that whatever we do not know to be true is false, and whatever we do not know to be false, is true". You can take credit for that, I don't mind. Because I believe that all confederacies of dunces should have a binding credo. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#32
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Arny Krueger wrote: wrote in message ups.com Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? Good question for rec.audio.opinion. Ask for Middius. Aren't you the sick ******* that was collecting all sorts of kiddie porn, and falsely accused others of sending it to you? |
#33
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
It truly is a wonder that you are still alive.
If you don't even know how to check for a ground, take your amp to a qualified professional. Put the fuse back in. Somebody should probably take the kids out of your house... |
#34
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
On 24 Jan 2006 12:13:22 -0800, wrote:
Don Pearce wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 11:35:40 -0800, wrote: I see that your ability to comprehend English syntax is about as good as your engineering know-how. Especially considering that you are still flapping your gums here but have not been able to explain what will cause my amp to "catch on fire" or that fuses are inaudible or whatever other nonsense that you are trying to blubber out. Obviously, like the rest of the RATs and leeches here, you know nothing about desigining world class amps. You don't even know how a fuse works. Why then have you leeched on to my thread? Because despite everything, you are making me laugh. Trust me, I'm not making you laugh even half as much as you are making me laugh. The fact that you have nothing better going on in your life than to hang around newsgroups ridiculing people who's experiences contradict your lack of explanations, makes me laugh at you even harder. Like many of your kind, you're too stupid to realize exactly how stupid you are.. and how stupid you look to those that realize how stupid you are. And like the true hypocrites that you and your kind are known to be, you demand evidence of everything when someone discusses something in audio you've never heard of, but you provide absolutely NONE but your vigorous denials of their empirical trials. Nice show of illustrating just what group of pathetic fools you belong to. Do drop in a post just before you carry out your big experiment, then when you make no more posts we will all know what has happened - we'll raise a glass to you! Indeed! What a surprise that you sound just like the other fool I just read on this group who criticized a well known audiophile publisher (John Atkinson) for ignorance because of something he didn't mention. Not only do people have NOTHING to offer to support your vigorous denials, but in a blinding display of sheer and total ignorance, you make these insane leaps of logic whereby you assume a negative to be a positive.... (that means, translated for a supreme idiot such as yourself, that you are concluding something is true simply for the fact that you do not know it to be untrue. The least I can say about you, is that your twisted, simple-minded kindergarten logic is at least consistent. Since you also believe that in the case of the audibility of fuses, it must not be true, since you do not know it to be true). Are you the official leader of the flies on this newsgroup? Since you seem to consider yourself important enough to state your business in your signature, then you can pass along the official RAT credo to the other ****fly buddies of yours: "We, the flies who hover around mounds of our own ****, believe that whatever we do not know to be true is false, and whatever we do not know to be false, is true". You can take credit for that, I don't mind. Because I believe that all confederacies of dunces should have a binding credo. Nope, didn't get any of that. Anybody help? d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#35
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
In article .com, wrote:
Thanks Greg. I was having so much fun swatting the ignorant flies that breed around the **** they create on this newsgroup, I wasn't expecting an intelligent, respectful, and non-ridiculing response like this. Especially so "late in the game" (given that the flies on this group do nothing all day but post here, that means it only takes about 5-10 minutes for a thread to degenerate due to the inherent stupidity of low-level audio techies on the net...). It's always funny for me to see that once you start mentioning you can hear things to wannabe- engineers that they weren't taught in their local college courses, they start freaking out in fits of neuroses. Like babies who've had their security blankets rudely yanked away. They don't even TRY to debate the issue they contend with in the first place (because they actually can't...), they simply make COMPLETE asses out of themselves, because they simply don't know what to do with themselves... Anyway, not sure what you mean by "changing a fuse should do a bunch more than replacing a cord". Bunch more soundwise? Replacing one fuse for the same fuse, or for that of a different rating? As mentioned in my message, I didn't try replacing one fuse for another of the same type, but for that of a different type. I did try reversing the amps original fuse, and found that made an audible difference as well. Many change the replacable line cord which does very little in the big picture. I do like soldered line cords. A line cord normally has less resistance than a fuse, except slow blowing fuses under 1 amp will show definate resistance increases. The equipment should be built to go around these issues and perform OK. If you think you hear a difference, then a difference could possibly exist. What I'm still unsure about is: - What is the exact risk involved of changing the rating of a fuse (in my case, 1.6a 125v for a 500mA 250v)? Some fire potential. A fuse does not guarantee anything except current overflow. - What is the exact risk involved in using solder wire instead of the original fuse and its filament wire? (Seems to me the solder would burn at an even lower temperature, You probably mean silver solder vs silver bearing solder. It does not melt at too low of a temperature, but lower than copper. A fuse is made to have resistance and cause heat melting itself. The lower the rating, the more the resistance. Silver bearing solder could have at least 1 % silver content. Most of the non-lead solders have a higher melting temperature, but most solders have high resistance. - Would a transformer damaged by the absence of the original fuse be audibly apparent before leaking currents and creating a risk of shock? No. The fuse would not damage the transformer, but could cause a damaged transformer to get too hot or otherwise let it continue to opperate when it should not be opperating. - How can I check to be sure my metal case is properly grounded? It might have a 3 wire AC connector. Thats normally the only way to ground, but there are other ways. Most consumer audio equipment does not have a grounded case. Grounding it may cause ground loop noise. In non grounded equipment, a voltmeter connected to a resistor and parallel capacitor is normally attached from the equipment to earth ground. There is a limit on passing current, normally less than 100 uA. GregS wrote: In article . com, wrote: Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? Changing a fuse should do a bunch more than replacing a cord, especially a cooroded fuse connection. Relacing any connection is likely to improve the connection. A fuse can help prevent shocks, but there is no guarantee. Damaged transformers could leak currents. Its preferable to have all metal cases grounded, but not all metal cases are grounded. Wood can overheat with damaged components, and may or may not still work. Fires have been started with metal chassis equipment, allthough mostly with ventillated chassis. greg |
#36
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: wrote: Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools. If Bernard Andre is able to sell his custom made fuses for 100 times what he pays for them, he's no fool. The people who buy them OTOH.... //Walt Yeah right. If any one of you loud-mouthed simple minded idiots had just one shred of experience or even clue of what you were talking about, you would be unrecognizable to yourselves. Try being the first fool here to PROVE one of your false assertions about people who are far superior thinkers than you are. Otherwise, you can shut the **** up. |
#37
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
On 24 Jan 2006 11:55:29 -0800, wrote:
What I'm still unsure about is: - What is the exact risk involved of changing the rating of a fuse (in my case, 1.6a 125v for a 500mA 250v)? - What is the exact risk involved in using solder wire instead of the original fuse and its filament wire? (Seems to me the solder would burn at an even lower temperature, - Would a transformer damaged by the absence of the original fuse be audibly apparent before leaking currents and creating a risk of shock? It seems that you do not know why fuses are used and how they work. Both my early teen kids know. You must either be a troll, less than 13, or very ignorant. If you really, really, are serious (which most of doubt, it seems) you can read about it he http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...tt/elect16.htm Per. |
#38
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#39
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
GregS wrote: In article .com, wrote: Anyway, not sure what you mean by "changing a fuse should do a bunch more than replacing a cord". Bunch more soundwise? Replacing one fuse for the same fuse, or for that of a different rating? As mentioned in my message, I didn't try replacing one fuse for another of the same type, but for that of a different type. I did try reversing the amps original fuse, and found that made an audible difference as well. Many change the replacable line cord which does very little in the big picture. Yes, I know about that. I've changed line cords on tape decks, turntables, etc.... always found significant differences. Didn't always like the difference, since so many characteristics change. Not easy to experiment with, unless you play around with IEC replaceable cords. I do like soldered line cords. A line cord normally has less resistance than a fuse, except slow blowing fuses under 1 amp will show definate resistance increases. The equipment should be built to go around these issues and perform OK. If you think you hear a difference, then a difference could possibly exist. The difference is tremendous (to me), and I have no doubt it exists, but then, I really didn't come here to prove that to anybody or debate this issue (especially with those who have preconceived notions about what can and can't be perceived in audio...)... only to find out what the "real risk" was of substituting the fuse for something else that would maintain the current, as the fuse did, but sound better. I don't claim to have an engineering background, which is why I came asking questions. What I was comparing was the silver solder that I used in place of the fuse (I dont nkow the percentage, but Im sure its very low, I nkow it contains lead and its from RadioShack), vs. the wire filament in the glass fuse tube. I'm thinking that if the wire filament is designed to cut off the current during an overload or short by breaking from the heat generated, would not the solder have the same effect of melting during an overload and thereby cutting off the current and preventing the amp from melting down or "catching fire"? The electronic solder used does not seem to have a particularly high melting point, but I don't know if it is much lower than that of a fuse filament. However, I understand you to say most solders have high resistance, and that resistance is what helps the filament in a fuse melt itself. Would this not make it easy for the Radio Shack silver (probly mostly lead!) solder to melt under overload conditions and prevent further damage? What I'm still unsure about is: - What is the exact risk involved of changing the rating of a fuse (in my case, 1.6a 125v for a 500mA 250v)? Some fire potential. A fuse does not guarantee anything except current overflow. So you're saying even the RIGHT fuse installed does not guarantee the amp wont catch on fire? Intersting, because all the crazy little boys here have been screaming at me that my amp will send me and family to a burning hell the minute I replace the fuse with anything but the rated type. Some are even prearing hot dogs to roast at my family's "personal barbecue", from what I've read. You probably mean silver solder vs silver bearing solder. It does not melt at too low of a temperature, but lower than copper. A fuse is made to have resistance and cause heat melting itself. The lower the rating, the more the resistance. Silver bearing solder could have at least 1 % silver content. Most of the non-lead solders have a higher melting temperature, but most solders have high resistance. - How can I check to be sure my metal case is properly grounded? It might have a 3 wire AC connector. Thats normally the only way to ground, but there are other ways. Most consumer audio equipment does not have a grounded case. Grounding it may cause ground loop noise. I guess my metal preamp isnt grounded then. Theres some kind of grounding going on inside of it, but the plug is a two prong ungrounded type. In non grounded equipment, a voltmeter connected to a resistor and parallel capacitor is normally attached from the equipment to earth ground. There is a limit on passing current, normally less than 100 uA. |
#40
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message oups.com... Walt wrote: wrote: Let me guess: It sounds much more warm without the fuse. LOL. No, I wouldn't describe it as that. Without going into minute details, the overall resolution is much higher. Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? You could burn up the power supply, or it could catch on fire. Put the damn fuse back in. Could you describe just what condtions would cause the power supply to burn up or catch on fire (I would not have thought this component to be flammable!)? As I say, I've been running it a couple of hours so far and there's been no change. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I had previously removed the heatsink from the output transistors in order to improve the sound, and there was never any overheating problem. In a fault condition. That's why there is a fuse in the first place. A 'normal' current is the criteria determining minimum fuse rating.. geoff |
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