"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most
of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three (out
of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price into
the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small power OP
amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP amp and
ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the valves in
place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in any way
unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full. The cost, of
course, was significantly lower than replacing all the faulty stuff. After
he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps had never sounded so
good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most
of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three
(out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price
into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small
power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP
amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the
valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in
any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full. The
cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the faulty
stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps had never
sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

**Lemme examine the facts:

* I was asked to service a very old pair of power amps.
* The cost of the repair would have been around AUS$800.00.
* I repaired both amps to the client's satisfaction, for around AUS$200.00.
* I provided a no questions asked, written money back guarantee, if the
client was not satisfied.
* The client expressed the opinion that the amps had never sounded as good.
* The client now has a pair of power amps which LOOK exactly like they did
when they were submitted for service, but he now has a pair of power amps
which are likely to provide faithful service for many decades.

You call that 'fraud'?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most
of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three
(out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price
into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small
power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP
amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the
valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in
any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full. The
cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the faulty
stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps had never
sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

How is it unethical, if he offered a full refund?

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and
most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had
three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the
price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of
small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of
each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left
the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was
in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full.
The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the
faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps
had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

How is it unethical, if he offered a full refund?

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and
most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had
three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the
price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of
small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of
each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left
the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was
in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full.
The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the
faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps
had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

How is it unethical, if he offered a full refund?

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and
most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had
three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the
price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of
small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of
each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left
the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was
in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full.
The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the
faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps
had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

How is it unethical, if he offered a full refund?

Because he did not disclose the modifications.

Sorry for the erant double clicks!

Anyway, he asked for a repair of a tube amp, not a replacement
of the tube components with a ss components.
A proper repair woud be the replacement of
of like components. Making a substantive modification
without notification and consent of the owner is unethical.
If a proper repair could not be made on an economic
scale, this should have been discussed with the unit owner.

Mikey, can't you perceive
the deceptivemess of what Trevor did?

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and
most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had
three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the
price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of
small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of
each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left
the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was
in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full.
The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the
faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps
had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

**Lemme examine the facts:

* I was asked to service a very old pair of power amps.
* The cost of the repair would have been around AUS$800.00.
* I repaired both amps to the client's satisfaction, for around
AUS$200.00.
* I provided a no questions asked, written money back guarantee, if the
client was not satisfied.
* The client expressed the opinion that the amps had never sounded as
good.
* The client now has a pair of power amps which LOOK exactly like they did
when they were submitted for service, but he now has a pair of power amps
which are likely to provide faithful service for many decades.

You call that 'fraud'?


Yes, you did not notify or discuss the mdifications with the owner.
Well, let's say it was quite deceptive.
I wouldn't want to do busines with someone
who would do something similar to that, whether
for an amp, a car, or a household appliance.

I think Clyde is terrified that if it were to happen to him, he would
be unable to discern the difference....

Taken from that point of view, his reaction is pretty obvious. But if
it is not fraud, it certainly treads on the knife's edge of fraud.

Now, 'fixed' is a strange word, and I haven't any idea what AUS$200
translates in off-the-shelf buying power these days, but speaking for
myself, I would have told the owner that he had a choice... a 'fix'
that would give him an operating pair of amps, or a restoration that
would have given him what I _expect_ he thinks he paid for, but at a
much higher price. If he did not ask you to explain the difference,
well and good. If he did, and you did in accordance with his direct
instructions, also well and good.

But, I will also state that if he discovers the deception (and that it
is) at _any_ point in the future, you are 100% obligated to provide him
with a repair up to his full and initial expectations, and at no
additional cost, not merely refund his money. By letting him get out of
your shop with those amps and withuout full-disclosure, that is exactly
where you are on the ethics scale.

Keep one other mechanical item in mind. Tube amps clip pretty softly,
solid-state amps do not. What what happens if he changes the
application and drives your kluge to clipping? Just a thought. You
understand that you have given him an infinite warranty against even
his own potential for idiocy AND against any damage to other equipment
real or imagined that is touched by this amp.

So, what happens if he pulls out a tube or three? Will the amp still
play? That *just* might get him to question what is actually going on.

And, after all that, was it worth it?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

"Trevor Wilson" said:

**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most
of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three
(out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price
into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small
power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP
amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the
valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in
any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full. The
cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the faulty
stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps had never
sounded so good.


Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

**Lemme examine the facts:

* I was asked to service a very old pair of power amps.
* The cost of the repair would have been around AUS$800.00.
* I repaired both amps to the client's satisfaction, for around AUS$200.00.
* I provided a no questions asked, written money back guarantee, if the
client was not satisfied.
* The client expressed the opinion that the amps had never sounded as good.
* The client now has a pair of power amps which LOOK exactly like they did
when they were submitted for service, but he now has a pair of power amps
which are likely to provide faithful service for many decades.

You call that 'fraud'?


I would never have done this without asking the customer first.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

wrote in message
ups.com...
I think Clyde is terrified that if it were to happen to him, he would
be unable to discern the difference....

So, you are opining that a ss amp would sound the same as a tube amp?


Taken from that point of view, his reaction is pretty obvious. But if
it is not fraud, it certainly treads on the knife's edge of fraud.


Let's just say deceptive and dishonest.


Now, 'fixed' is a strange word, and I haven't any idea what AUS$200
translates in off-the-shelf buying power these days, but speaking for
myself, I would have told the owner that he had a choice... a 'fix'
that would give him an operating pair of amps, or a restoration that
would have given him what I _expect_ he thinks he paid for, but at a
much higher price. If he did not ask you to explain the difference,
well and good. If he did, and you did in accordance with his direct
instructions, also well and good.

But, I will also state that if he discovers the deception (and that it
is) at _any_ point in the future, you are 100% obligated to provide him
with a repair up to his full and initial expectations, and at no
additional cost, not merely refund his money. By letting him get out of
your shop with those amps and withuout full-disclosure, that is exactly
where you are on the ethics scale.

Keep one other mechanical item in mind. Tube amps clip pretty softly,
solid-state amps do not. What what happens if he changes the
application and drives your kluge to clipping? Just a thought. You
understand that you have given him an infinite warranty against even
his own potential for idiocy AND against any damage to other equipment
real or imagined that is touched by this amp.

So, what happens if he pulls out a tube or three? Will the amp still
play? That *just* might get him to question what is actually going on.

And, after all that, was it worth it?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


Good points

in article , Trevor Wilson at
wrote on 12/21/05 4:00 PM:

"I left the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If
was in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full.
The
cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the faulty
stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps had never
sounded so good . . . . "

"You call that 'fraud'?"

* * * *

You deliberately misled the client who was left with the impression that you
fixed his tube amp. That's deception. And I think it also meets the
definition of fraud.

Don't be to quick to congratulate yourself for making his amp sound better
than before. After all, it was totally broken before the mod.

Sheesh. You'd even make a "dishonest garage trader" blush . . . .

Jon

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked
to service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart
from several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors
and most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it
had three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put
the price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair
of small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front
of each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I
left the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp.
If was in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in
full. The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all
the faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his
amps had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

**Lemme examine the facts:

* I was asked to service a very old pair of power amps.
* The cost of the repair would have been around AUS$800.00.
* I repaired both amps to the client's satisfaction, for around
AUS$200.00.
* I provided a no questions asked, written money back guarantee, if the
client was not satisfied.
* The client expressed the opinion that the amps had never sounded as
good.
* The client now has a pair of power amps which LOOK exactly like they
did when they were submitted for service, but he now has a pair of power
amps which are likely to provide faithful service for many decades.

You call that 'fraud'?


Yes, you did not notify or discuss the mdifications with the owner.
Well, let's say it was quite deceptive.
I wouldn't want to do busines with someone
who would do something similar to that, whether
for an amp, a car, or a household appliance.
I suspect you wouldn't want to find out that you were fooled into thinking
that something other than what you had previously thought was a great amp
could be switched on you and you not know it. Welcome to a reason for
DBT.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I think Clyde is terrified that if it were to happen to him, he would
be unable to discern the difference....

Taken from that point of view, his reaction is pretty obvious. But if
it is not fraud, it certainly treads on the knife's edge of fraud.

Now, 'fixed' is a strange word, and I haven't any idea what AUS$200
translates in off-the-shelf buying power these days, but speaking for
myself, I would have told the owner that he had a choice... a 'fix'
that would give him an operating pair of amps, or a restoration that
would have given him what I _expect_ he thinks he paid for, but at a
much higher price. If he did not ask you to explain the difference,
well and good. If he did, and you did in accordance with his direct
instructions, also well and good.

But, I will also state that if he discovers the deception (and that it
is) at _any_ point in the future, you are 100% obligated to provide him
with a repair up to his full and initial expectations, and at no
additional cost, not merely refund his money. By letting him get out of
your shop with those amps and withuout full-disclosure, that is exactly
where you are on the ethics scale.

Keep one other mechanical item in mind. Tube amps clip pretty softly,
solid-state amps do not. What what happens if he changes the
application and drives your kluge to clipping? Just a thought. You
understand that you have given him an infinite warranty against even
his own potential for idiocy AND against any damage to other equipment
real or imagined that is touched by this amp.

So, what happens if he pulls out a tube or three? Will the amp still
play? That *just* might get him to question what is actually going on.

And, after all that, was it worth it?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

OK, I concede.

Still it points up how idiotic the whole amp sound nonsense is and how easy
it is for us to fool ourselves into thinging we have something that sounds
one way, but acutally sounds another or makes no difference.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked
to service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart
from several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors
and most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it
had three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put
the price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair
of small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front
of each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I
left the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp.
If was in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in
full. The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all
the faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his
amps had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

How is it unethical, if he offered a full refund?

Because he did not disclose the modifications.

Sorry for the erant double clicks!

Anyway, he asked for a repair of a tube amp, not a replacement
of the tube components with a ss components.
A proper repair woud be the replacement of
of like components. Making a substantive modification
without notification and consent of the owner is unethical.
If a proper repair could not be made on an economic
scale, this should have been discussed with the unit owner.

Mikey, can't you perceive
the deceptivemess of what Trevor did?



Already conceded the point in another post.

Do you not see now how easy it is to be fooled by the placebo effect?
This guy should have, assuming all the subjective crap about sighted tests
was accurate, been able to tell that his amp was no completely different.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...



**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked
to service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart
from several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors
and most of the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it
had three (out of four) faulty output transformers. This would have put
the price into the ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair
of small power OP amps in each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front
of each OP amp and ran the whole shebang off the filament supplies. I
left the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp.
If was in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in
full. The cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all
the faulty stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his
amps had never sounded so good.



Gross hypocricy noted.
Evidently its ok for you to 'defraud'
a customer.

**Lemme examine the facts:

* I was asked to service a very old pair of power amps.
* The cost of the repair would have been around AUS$800.00.
* I repaired both amps to the client's satisfaction, for around
AUS$200.00.
* I provided a no questions asked, written money back guarantee, if the
client was not satisfied.
* The client expressed the opinion that the amps had never sounded as
good.
* The client now has a pair of power amps which LOOK exactly like they
did when they were submitted for service, but he now has a pair of power
amps which are likely to provide faithful service for many decades.

You call that 'fraud'?


Yes, you did not notify or discuss the mdifications with the owner.

**That is not entirely true. I DID discuss what I termed "radical
alterations, in order to keep costs at a minimum" with the client. He OK'd
the job, after my assurances that he would receive a money back guarantee.

Well, let's say it was quite deceptive.

**That would your opinion. My client liked the cosmetics of his old amps and
wished to retain the charm of the products. I complied with his requests.

I wouldn't want to do busines with someone
who would do something similar to that, whether
for an amp, a car, or a household appliance.

**That would be your choice. If I had (say) a 45 year old automobile (the
approximate age of the amplifiers) and my mechanic told me that it would
cost $8,000.00 to rebuild the engine, but offered me an alternative, which
would provide the same functionality, safety and higher levels of
reliability for $2,000.00, I know what I would choose.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

wrote in message
ups.com...
I think Clyde is terrified that if it were to happen to him, he would
be unable to discern the difference....

Taken from that point of view, his reaction is pretty obvious. But if
it is not fraud, it certainly treads on the knife's edge of fraud.


**Where did you acquire your legal training? And what do you understand by
the words: "Money back guarantee, if not completely satisfied."?


Now, 'fixed' is a strange word, and I haven't any idea what AUS$200
translates in off-the-shelf buying power these days, but speaking for
myself, I would have told the owner that he had a choice... a 'fix'
that would give him an operating pair of amps, or a restoration that
would have given him what I _expect_ he thinks he paid for, but at a
much higher price. If he did not ask you to explain the difference,
well and good. If he did, and you did in accordance with his direct
instructions, also well and good.

**If he asked what I had done, I would have explained in exquisite detail.
He was pleased to have his amps back and functioning and looking just like
they did when he gave them to me for service.


But, I will also state that if he discovers the deception (and that it
is) at _any_ point in the future, you are 100% obligated to provide him
with a repair up to his full and initial expectations, and at no
additional cost, not merely refund his money. By letting him get out of
your shop with those amps and withuout full-disclosure, that is exactly
where you are on the ethics scale.

**It gets a little more complex than that. After all, much of my work
involves straight service work. Some entails performance mods, where
appropriate. In many cases, due to the improvements gained through the use
of modern components and thinking, some repair work invloves an 'automatic'
upgrade. For instance: Replacing some capacitors and resistors in older
units, with identical parts, is impossible. It is now only reasonable to use
modern, high performance items. This will, inevitably, result in a
performance improvement. Where does one draw the line?


Keep one other mechanical item in mind. Tube amps clip pretty softly,
solid-state amps do not.

**That is a false and oft-repeated claim. SOME tube amps clip softly and
SOME SS amps do not. You forget that I had one good channel, with which I
was able to measure and duplicate the performance from.

What what happens if he changes the
application and drives your kluge to clipping? Just a thought.

**Question based on previous false assumption. Your question is, therefore,
invalid.

You
understand that you have given him an infinite warranty against even
his own potential for idiocy AND against any damage to other equipment
real or imagined that is touched by this amp.

**In which universe do you imagine that such a warranty has to be provided?
Look at the facts:

* The amp is now MUCH more reliable than it was.
* The amp will enjoy a much longer life than it previously could.
* The now has protection against owner stupidity, which it did not
previously have.


So, what happens if he pulls out a tube or three? Will the amp still
play? That *just* might get him to question what is actually going on.

**It may do so.


And, after all that, was it worth it?

**Lemme see:

* I have a happy client, who has since sent several other items to me for
service and has also recommended several other clients to me.

Yes, it was well worth it. For all concerned.

Normally, I don't need to perform such radical surgery on a tube (or any
other) amplifier. This was a unique situation. I addressed it accordingly.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Jon Yaeger wrote:
in article , Trevor Wilson at
wrote on 12/21/05 4:00 PM:

"I left the valves in place and told the client that I had fixed his amp. If
was in any way unhappy with the result, I would refund his money, in full.
The
cost, of course, was significantly lower than replacing all the faulty
stuff. After he'd used it for a week, he reported that his amps had never
sounded so good . . . . "

"You call that 'fraud'?"

* * * *

You deliberately misled the client who was left with the impression that you
fixed his tube amp. That's deception. And I think it also meets the
definition of fraud.

Don't be to quick to congratulate yourself for making his amp sound better
than before. After all, it was totally broken before the mod.

Sheesh. You'd even make a "dishonest garage trader" blush . . . .

Jon

Yeah, after the kicking you took for merely being *shoddy* about the
provenance of an amplifier design and *careless* about who you
believed, and then being too stubborn to admit you were wrong, what
Wilson did must rate at least electrodes to the testicles.

"Fraud" doesn't even begin to describe what Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio
did to this poor unwitting customer.

In the championship dishonesty stakes, Jon, you're a piker... no,
that's the wrong word, a pike is a predator... you're a throw-back
fingerling trout, accident-prone rather than actively dishonest.

Andre Jute
It's the shock of being exposed to RAO that made me so nice

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...


**That would be your choice. If I had (say) a 45 year old automobile (the
approximate age of the amplifiers) and my mechanic told me that it would
cost $8,000.00 to rebuild the engine, but offered me an alternative, which
would provide the same functionality, safety and higher levels of
reliability for $2,000.00, I know what I would choose.


IF YOUR MECHANIC TOLD YOU!!!!!!
That's my point.

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...


* I have a happy client, who has since sent several other items to me for
service and has also recommended several other clients to me.


If he knew of your deceit,
he might not have recommended you to anyone else.

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.


You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.

I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.

It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.

Andre Jute

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec 2005 00:50:40 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:

Actually, in your case it's about bull****. A clean amp is a clean amp
is a clean amp. It is always informative when you are ruminating
happily about the wonders of SET - and suddenly realise that the other
amp is the one that's actually connected!

**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most of
the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three (out of
four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price into the
ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small power OP amps in
each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP amp and ran the
whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the valves in place and told
the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in any way unhappy with the
result, I would refund his money, in full. The cost, of course, was
significantly lower than replacing all the faulty stuff. After he'd used it
for a week, he reported that his amps had never sounded so good.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

wrote in message
nk.net...



Do you not see now how easy it is to be fooled by the placebo effect?
This guy should have, assuming all the subjective crap about sighted tests
was accurate, been able to tell that his amp was no completely different.


It wasn't a sighted test.
It wasn't even any test at all.
Surely you can see that.

in article , Trevor Wilson at
wrote on 12/21/05 7:36 PM:


**If he asked what I had done, I would have explained in exquisite detail.
He was pleased to have his amps back and functioning and looking just like
they did when he gave them to me for service.

* * * Hmmm. A tube works because of an air vacuum. A serviced amp works
because of an ethical vacuum . . . ?

"If only he had asked" is beyond lame . . . . Gee, I would have told the
nice sheila that I slipped her a mickey before I shagged her brains out if
only she had asked!

Trevor, as a serviceman you have a duty of disclosure so that a client can
make an informed decision, even if that decision is ultimately not is his or
her best interest.


But, I will also state that if he discovers the deception (and that it
is) at _any_ point in the future, you are 100% obligated to provide him
with a repair up to his full and initial expectations, and at no
additional cost, not merely refund his money. By letting him get out of
your shop with those amps and withuout full-disclosure, that is exactly
where you are on the ethics scale.

**It gets a little more complex than that. After all, much of my work
involves straight service work. Some entails performance mods, where
appropriate. In many cases, due to the improvements gained through the use
of modern components and thinking, some repair work invloves an 'automatic'
upgrade. For instance: Replacing some capacitors and resistors in older
units, with identical parts, is impossible. It is now only reasonable to use
modern, high performance items. This will, inevitably, result in a
performance improvement. Where does one draw the line?

* * * How is an upgrade or mod anywhere on the same continuum as deception?
There ain't no line to draw between these two disparate points, IMHO.


Keep one other mechanical item in mind. Tube amps clip pretty softly,
solid-state amps do not.

**That is a false and oft-repeated claim. SOME tube amps clip softly and
SOME SS amps do not. You forget that I had one good channel, with which I
was able to measure and duplicate the performance from.

What what happens if he changes the
application and drives your kluge to clipping? Just a thought.

**Question based on previous false assumption. Your question is, therefore,
invalid.

* * * You can parse a logical argument but keep flexible on ethical
matters?

You
understand that you have given him an infinite warranty against even
his own potential for idiocy AND against any damage to other equipment
real or imagined that is touched by this amp.

**In which universe do you imagine that such a warranty has to be provided?
Look at the facts:

* The amp is now MUCH more reliable than it was.

* * * Ergo, the ends justify the means? Sometimes . . . But not here.

* The amp will enjoy a much longer life than it previously could.
* The now has protection against owner stupidity, which it did not
previously have.

* * * Guess the owner was too stupid to explain what you did.


So, what happens if he pulls out a tube or three? Will the amp still
play? That *just* might get him to question what is actually going on.

**It may do so.


And, after all that, was it worth it?

**Lemme see:

* I have a happy client, who has since sent several other items to me for
service and has also recommended several other clients to me.

Yes, it was well worth it. For all concerned.

Normally, I don't need to perform such radical surgery on a tube (or any
other) amplifier. This was a unique situation. I addressed it accordingly.


* * * *

Let's sift through the bull****.

Give me the contact information for your client. I'll ask him if he knew
what was done to his amp. Then I'll get back to the group and report how
happy he was with the info.

Jon

Andre Jute wrote:

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster.

Andrew Joot of no audio skill of note, you are a pontificating, deceitful windbag.

Graham

in article , Andre Jute
at wrote on 12/21/05 7:41 PM:


Yeah, after the kicking you took for merely being *shoddy* about the
provenance of an amplifier design and *careless* about who you
believed, and then being too stubborn to admit you were wrong, what
Wilson did must rate at least electrodes to the testicles.

* * *

If you are talking about Henry's amplifier, any "shoddiness" about it's
provenance was due to my ignorance. I appreciate being corrected, especially
of the person offering the correction is correct as well.

I've never claimed anything but novice status. I continue to learn. I
don't have any problems admitting error in the tube world.

"Fraud" doesn't even begin to describe what Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio
did to this poor unwitting customer.

In the championship dishonesty stakes, Jon, you're a piker... no,
that's the wrong word, a pike is a predator... you're a throw-back
fingerling trout, accident-prone rather than actively dishonest.

* * * And what can I learn from you on the topic of honesty?

Andre Jute
It's the shock of being exposed to RAO that made me so nice

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...


**That would be your choice. If I had (say) a 45 year old automobile (the
approximate age of the amplifiers) and my mechanic told me that it would
cost $8,000.00 to rebuild the engine, but offered me an alternative,
which would provide the same functionality, safety and higher levels of
reliability for $2,000.00, I know what I would choose.


IF YOUR MECHANIC TOLD YOU!!!!!!
That's my point.

**I offered my client the two alternatives. I just did not spell out in
exquisite detail what the two alternatives were.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.

**I was asked to make two amplifiers function. I did so.



You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.

**I provided a money back guarantee.


I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.

**The amplifier performs at least as well as it did when new.


It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.

**After you chickened out in our last discourse, I should have realised that
you have no stomach for an honest discussion.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Pooh Bear wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster.

Andrew Joot of no audio skill of note, you are a pontificating, deceitful windbag.

Graham

Here we have the difference between you and me, Poopie. You make wild
statements on the basis of nothing except your pointless spite and
envy. When I make a statement, it is backed by facts and reaoned
deduction, which provide for all to judge.

Andre Jute

And here are the facts and deductions I cited which Graham Poopie
Stevenson deceitfully deleted:

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.



You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.


I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.


It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.


Andre Jute


- Hide quoted text -

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec 2005 00:50:40 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:


Actually, in your case it's about bull****. A clean amp is a clean amp
is a clean amp. It is always informative when you are ruminating
happily about the wonders of SET - and suddenly realise that the other
amp is the one that's actually connected!


**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most of
the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three (out of
four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price into the
ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small power OP amps in
each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP amp and ran the
whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the valves in place and told
the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in any way unhappy with the
result, I would refund his money, in full. The cost, of course, was
significantly lower than replacing all the faulty stuff. After he'd used it
for a week, he reported that his amps had never sounded so good.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Andre Jute wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster.

Andrew Joot of no audio skill of note, you are a pontificating, deceitful windbag.

Graham

Here we have the difference between you and me, Poopie. You make wild
statements on the basis of nothing except your pointless spite and
envy.

Envy ? You *have* to be joking ! I'd be embarrased to have as little understanding of
audio as yourself. Your apparent disdain for getting to grips with important details is
what marks you out as a jester looking for quick dirty inaccuarate 'answers'.

When I make a statement, it is backed by facts and reaoned
deduction, which provide for all to judge.

And I read the *whole*. Not selected snippets such as you provide.

Graham

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.

**I was asked to make two amplifiers function. I did so.



You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.

**I provided a money back guarantee.


I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.

**The amplifier performs at least as well as it did when new.


It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.

**After you chickened out in our last discourse, I should have realised that
you have no stomach for an honest discussion.

Where is the honesty in you taking money for altering a customer's
property radically without his knowledge or his consent? Where is the
honesty in taking money for not telling the customer, the owner of the
property, what you did? Where is the honesty in taking money for
holding the customer up to ridicule on the net to satisfy your sick
urge to win a minor debating point?

You committed fraud and theft, Wilson. You also dishonestly snipped my
original letter to remove the evidence from your own mouth of your
fraud and your theft. I reprint both your admission and my conclusion
below my signature.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

I wouldn't buy blank DVD's from Rage Audio, never mind entrust my
amplifier to the fraud and thief Trevor Wilson. Who knows what he will
do with it? Who knows when he will gloat on the net that I paid him to
defraud me and steal from me.

Andre Jute

Here is Trevor Wilson's own account of how Rage Audio treats its
customers, and my conclusions again, since Wilson deceitfully snipped
the evidence and the reasoning:

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.



You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.


I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.


It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.


Andre Jute


- Hide quoted text -

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec 2005 00:50:40 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:


Actually, in your case it's about bull****. A clean amp is a clean amp
is a clean amp. It is always informative when you are ruminating
happily about the wonders of SET - and suddenly realise that the other
amp is the one that's actually connected!


**Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most of
the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three (out of
four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price into the
ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small power OP amps in
each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP amp and ran the
whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the valves in place and told
the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in any way unhappy with the
result, I would refund his money, in full. The cost, of course, was
significantly lower than replacing all the faulty stuff. After he'd used it
for a week, he reported that his amps had never sounded so good.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...


**That would be your choice. If I had (say) a 45 year old automobile
(the approximate age of the amplifiers) and my mechanic told me that it
would cost $8,000.00 to rebuild the engine, but offered me an
alternative, which would provide the same functionality, safety and
higher levels of reliability for $2,000.00, I know what I would choose.


IF YOUR MECHANIC TOLD YOU!!!!!!
That's my point.

**I offered my client the two alternatives. I just did not spell out in
exquisite detail what the two alternatives were.


That doesn't jive with this:

" **Funny you mention that, Stewart. A couple of years ago, I was asked to
service two, stereo, 3 Watt (PP) valve amps. Unfortunately, apart from
several buggered valves, all the electros, many of the resistors and most
of
the old plastic capacitors also required replacement, it had three (out of
four) faulty output transformers. This would have put the price into the
ridiculous area. Then, I had an idea. I put a pair of small power OP amps
in
each amp. I put a LF and HF filter in front of each OP amp and ran the
whole shebang off the filament supplies. I left the valves in place and
told
the client that I had fixed his amp. If was in any way unhappy with the
result, I would refund his money, in full. The cost, of course, was
significantly lower than replacing all the faulty stuff. After he'd used
it
for a week, he reported that his amps had never sounded so good.?"

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.

**I was asked to make two amplifiers function. I did so.



You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.

**I provided a money back guarantee.


I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.

**The amplifier performs at least as well as it did when new.


It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.

**After you chickened out in our last discourse, I should have realised
that
you have no stomach for an honest discussion.

Where is the honesty in you taking money for altering a customer's
property radically without his knowledge or his consent?

**I gave my client two choices. AUS$800.00 or AUS$200.00. I promised him
that the cheaper choice would be at least as good and provided a money back
gurarantee. He agreed to the cheaper option.

Where is the
honesty in taking money for not telling the customer, the owner of the
property, what you did?

**I told the client that I would make his amp at least as good as what it
was when it was new. It did, in fact, sound better than a new amp.

Where is the honesty in taking money for
holding the customer up to ridicule on the net to satisfy your sick
urge to win a minor debating point?

**I would only be holding him up to ridicule, if:

* He chose the expensive option.
* I publically named him (which I will never do).


You committed fraud and theft, Wilson. You also dishonestly snipped my
original letter to remove the evidence from your own mouth of your
fraud and your theft. I reprint both your admission and my conclusion
below my signature.

**I note your continued inability to carry on a rational discussion.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**It gets a little more complex than that. After all, much of my work
involves straight service work. Some entails performance mods, where
appropriate. In many cases, due to the improvements gained through the use
of modern components and thinking, some repair work invloves an 'automatic'
upgrade. For instance: Replacing some capacitors and resistors in older
units, with identical parts, is impossible. It is now only reasonable to use
modern, high performance items. This will, inevitably, result in a
performance improvement. Where does one draw the line?

Somewhere between upgrading essentially like-for-like parts and
complete conversion from tube to SS.

Hey, guy, I brought you in a diesel, and you gave me back a similarly
powerful gasoline engine. Since I am nearly deaf, I could not tell the
difference right away. But....

That you did not tell him and that you did not get his approval (even
appreciation) in advance is where the ethics break down. Remind me not
to take stuff to you for service. Your heart may be in the right place,
and maybe you even did a clever piece of work, but sheeesh.....

Normally, I don't need to perform such radical surgery on a tube (or any
other) amplifier. This was a unique situation. I addressed it accordingly.

What you did is the functional equivalent of those "Spirit of St.
Louis" crappo-repro radios. Faux tubes. Some appreciate that, and he
may well have. But, in fact, it was not your decision to make.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I am still at the thinking stage. This is a subject which I would like to
discuss with Patrick, Andre and several others, who have a lot more
practical experience in SET than I. However, I think a parallel solution
might be best, as I want to drive a pair of splendid old Kef K1's which
are not particularly sensitive.

This thread is now pretty long, and as I would like to turn a corner, and
chat about jazz with you Jon, so I will start a new one.


Best regards

Iain


Iain,

I'd welcome that.

In the meantime, I've put a photo of my OTL effort to date on A.B.S.E.

Cheers,

Jon

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...



Do you not see now how easy it is to be fooled by the placebo effect?
This guy should have, assuming all the subjective crap about sighted
tests was accurate, been able to tell that his amp was no completely
different.


It wasn't a sighted test.
It wasn't even any test at all.
Surely you can see that.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...



Do you not see now how easy it is to be fooled by the placebo effect?
This guy should have, assuming all the subjective crap about sighted
tests was accurate, been able to tell that his amp was no completely
different.


It wasn't a sighted test.
It wasn't even any test at all.
Surely you can see that.


I see a guy who had a tube amp and now doesn't and can't tell the
difference.
I see a guy who is the same as most people in the world who when they don't
know they've been fooled, hear what they expect.

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster. To take a
client's property, fail to perform the service on it he requester,
alter his property without his consent or knowledge, not advise him
that you have so altered it, and then to brag on the net that your
actions prove some fanciful view of yours is despicable and fraudulent.

**I was asked to make two amplifiers function. I did so.



You are also a thief. You have stolen his right to choose for himself
the property he pays for.

**I provided a money back guarantee.


I notice elsewhere in the thread your claim that your action wasn't
fraud. Call your friendly local trading standards officer to come
explain the law and common trading ethics to you free of charge.

**The amplifier performs at least as well as it did when new.


It sickens me that I corresponded with you as if you were a human
being. I should have listened to Patrick Turner's warnings about you.

**After you chickened out in our last discourse, I should have realised
that you have no stomach for an honest discussion.


You should have been able to see that from his previous posts, some of whch
I posted.

wrote in message
ups.com...
**It gets a little more complex than that. After all, much of my work
involves straight service work. Some entails performance mods, where
appropriate. In many cases, due to the improvements gained through the use
of modern components and thinking, some repair work invloves an
'automatic'
upgrade. For instance: Replacing some capacitors and resistors in older
units, with identical parts, is impossible. It is now only reasonable to
use
modern, high performance items. This will, inevitably, result in a
performance improvement. Where does one draw the line?

Somewhere between upgrading essentially like-for-like parts and
complete conversion from tube to SS.

Hey, guy, I brought you in a diesel, and you gave me back a similarly
powerful gasoline engine. Since I am nearly deaf, I could not tell the
difference right away. But....

**BIG difference. You can't run a diesel engine on gasoline. For all intents
and purposes, the amplifiers were the same as they came in. Except they now
work. In any case, I provided a WRITTEN MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. Do you have a
concept of what that means?


That you did not tell him and that you did not get his approval (even
appreciation) in advance is where the ethics break down. Remind me not
to take stuff to you for service. Your heart may be in the right place,
and maybe you even did a clever piece of work, but sheeesh.....

**I provided my client with two choices - AUS$800.00 or AUS$200.00. He
chose.


Normally, I don't need to perform such radical surgery on a tube (or any
other) amplifier. This was a unique situation. I addressed it accordingly.

What you did is the functional equivalent of those "Spirit of St.
Louis" crappo-repro radios. Faux tubes. Some appreciate that, and he
may well have. But, in fact, it was not your decision to make.

**Not even close. The amplifiers are essentially untouched. All the original
parts are still in place (including the faulty output transformers). All the
old 1960s components. I just added a few, more modern bits, disconnected the
HT supply and provided a reliable, working pair of amplifiers, with a
WRITTEN MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. I just thought I'd emphasise that one more
time. If the client wants to resurrect them back to their original condition
(well, as close as possible, anyway, given that they've already seem several
previous service jobs from other companies, over the years), then all the
parts are there. It would be a relatively simple (if not expensive) job to
do so.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message
...
in article , Trevor Wilson at
wrote on 12/21/05 7:36 PM:


**If he asked what I had done, I would have explained in exquisite
detail.
He was pleased to have his amps back and functioning and looking just
like
they did when he gave them to me for service.

* * * Hmmm. A tube works because of an air vacuum. A serviced amp works
because of an ethical vacuum . . . ?

"If only he had asked" is beyond lame . . . . Gee, I would have told the
nice sheila that I slipped her a mickey before I shagged her brains out if
only she had asked!

Trevor, as a serviceman you have a duty of disclosure so that a client can
make an informed decision, even if that decision is ultimately not is his
or
her best interest.

**I offered my client two choices; AUS$800.00 or AUS$200.00. He chose. He
did not seem overly interested in the minute detail, as long as the sound
quality was up to the standards he required. That was easy to accomplish.



But, I will also state that if he discovers the deception (and that it
is) at _any_ point in the future, you are 100% obligated to provide him
with a repair up to his full and initial expectations, and at no
additional cost, not merely refund his money. By letting him get out of
your shop with those amps and withuout full-disclosure, that is exactly
where you are on the ethics scale.

**It gets a little more complex than that. After all, much of my work
involves straight service work. Some entails performance mods, where
appropriate. In many cases, due to the improvements gained through the
use
of modern components and thinking, some repair work invloves an
'automatic'
upgrade. For instance: Replacing some capacitors and resistors in older
units, with identical parts, is impossible. It is now only reasonable to
use
modern, high performance items. This will, inevitably, result in a
performance improvement. Where does one draw the line?

* * * How is an upgrade or mod anywhere on the same continuum as
deception?
There ain't no line to draw between these two disparate points, IMHO.

**Sure there is. Service people always substitute devices and components
during service work.



Keep one other mechanical item in mind. Tube amps clip pretty softly,
solid-state amps do not.

**That is a false and oft-repeated claim. SOME tube amps clip softly and
SOME SS amps do not. You forget that I had one good channel, with which I
was able to measure and duplicate the performance from.

What what happens if he changes the
application and drives your kluge to clipping? Just a thought.

**Question based on previous false assumption. Your question is,
therefore,
invalid.

* * * You can parse a logical argument but keep flexible on ethical
matters?

**YOU think what I did was unethical. My client is happy. And, just to
remind you: I provided a WRITTEN MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. I see no conflict. If
my client was unhappy, I would have removed the mods, restored the amp to
it's original condition, free of charge, or for $800.00 serviced the amp the
manner YOU feel is better. I stress YOU feel, because the client was
entirely happy with the result.


You
understand that you have given him an infinite warranty against even
his own potential for idiocy AND against any damage to other equipment
real or imagined that is touched by this amp.

**In which universe do you imagine that such a warranty has to be
provided?
Look at the facts:

* The amp is now MUCH more reliable than it was.

* * * Ergo, the ends justify the means? Sometimes . . . But not here.

* The amp will enjoy a much longer life than it previously could.
* The now has protection against owner stupidity, which it did not
previously have.

* * * Guess the owner was too stupid to explain what you did.

**The owner's talents lie elsewhere. He is far more talented in the law,
than I am. I would not call him stupid.



So, what happens if he pulls out a tube or three? Will the amp still
play? That *just* might get him to question what is actually going on.

**It may do so.


And, after all that, was it worth it?

**Lemme see:

* I have a happy client, who has since sent several other items to me for
service and has also recommended several other clients to me.

Yes, it was well worth it. For all concerned.

Normally, I don't need to perform such radical surgery on a tube (or any
other) amplifier. This was a unique situation. I addressed it
accordingly.


* * * *

Let's sift through the bull****.

Give me the contact information for your client.

**Short answer: No.


I'll ask him if he knew
what was done to his amp. Then I'll get back to the group and report how
happy he was with the info.

**It will never happen.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

What is it with Ozzies? Trevor is spinning like a top on a pretty
obvious ethics issue, Phil fulminates in ignorance from his dung-heep,
and Patrick the superficially sanest of the bunch is congenitally
unable to leave well-enough alone.

Must be something in the water.... I am not sufficiently biblical to
attribute it to ancestry.


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Dédé Jute a écrit :

Trevor Wilson of Rage Audio, you are a deceitful fraudster.


Bob, seems to me that your new friend is just a shy version Brian
McCarthy... I feel sorry for you.



--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500