[Brenda Ann]

"Steven" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 1, 12:54 am, Steven wrote:
I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,

and I left yesterday behind me.


Might say you were born again?

[Bruce Farley]

I am 59 and am a "service technician" (a fancy name for grease monkey)
that works on Honda motorcycles.

wrote:

I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

[[email protected]]

Telamon wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Phil Kane wrote:

Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --

Doubtful. Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
staring at a computer. I've been saving every penny, such that I will
be able to retire at 40-45. Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).

Engineering is dull.

Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
Eduardo.


I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying. For example when I
was in college I worked for Sears. They instructed me to "sell
extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
thought it was un-necessary.

Sears didn't like me very much
- what with telling the truth.

I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
your posts indicate.

If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
about the subject of electronics/electrical devices. For example:

- Do you know what VHDL is?
- How about a state machine?
- Synchronous DDR?
- PCI Express?
- Flip-flop?
- What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
- What are constraints?

This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
what it's about. And that's fine. Because I don't expect one person
to know everything there is to know about EE.

[[email protected]]

On Oct 1, 3:23 am, Bruce Farley wrote:
I am 59 and am a "service technician" (a fancy name for grease monkey)
that works on Honda motorcycles.


If you read the thread, you'll see some other very arrogant & very
condescending people who think folks like you are inferior. They
don't consider what you do to be "real" work. (see below).

I am not one of those. I wish I had half the talent you had, when
it comes to hands-on work. (I don't even know how to solder a basic
connection; I can do it, but it's very sloppy.)



On Sep 30, 1:55 pm, (Don Pearce)

I'd like to say I'm an engineer, but the word is debased.....
The chap who comes to look at my busted washing machine and announce
it is beyond repair - he is an engineer too, as is the bloke who sits
at a mixing desk with not the slightest clue as to what he is doing,
and moves a fader while trying to look cool.

I don't feel that inclined to call myself an engineer these days.

[Richard Crowley]

wrote ...
Bruce Farley wrote:
I am 59 and am a "service technician" (a fancy name for
grease monkey) that works on Honda motorcycles.

If you read the thread, you'll see some other very arrogant & very
condescending people who think folks like you are inferior. They
don't consider what you do to be "real" work. (see below).

I am not one of those. I wish I had half the talent you had, when
it comes to hands-on work. (I don't even know how to solder a basic
connection; I can do it, but it's very sloppy.)

Note that plumbers, motorcycle mechanics, cabinetmakers,
etc. are the kinds of jobs that cannot be "outsourced" to
foreign shores. Just one of the advantages of doing "real"
(physical) work vs. virtual (mental) work. :-)

There's likely an instructional video on Youtube on how to
solder. OTOH, with the prevalence of SMD, horse-shoeing
may be a more practical skill. :-)

[Stratum]

wrote:
I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

Lurking on-air personalities who want to know what the
intelligentsia are saying about them. We are the
intelligentsia. We're from outer space and France.

--

It's your lucky day! Listeners to this station have been
selected to receive a free bottle of Omega-3 Fish Oil.

[Steven]

On Oct 1, 1:46 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"Steven" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Oct 1, 12:54 am, Steven wrote:
I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,

and I left yesterday behind me.

Might say you were born again?

Dear god, let's not run into any Muppets, K?

[Steven]

On Oct 1, 4:24 am, wrote:
Telamon wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Phil Kane wrote:

Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --

Doubtful. Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
staring at a computer. I've been saving every penny, such that I will
be able to retire at 40-45. Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).

Engineering is dull.

Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
Eduardo.

I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying. For example when I
was in college I worked for Sears. They instructed me to "sell
extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
thought it was un-necessary.

Sears didn't like me very much
- what with telling the truth.

I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
your posts indicate.

If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
about the subject of electronics/electrical devices. For example:

- Do you know what VHDL is?
- How about a state machine?
- Synchronous DDR?
- PCI Express?
- Flip-flop?
- What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
- What are constraints?

This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
what it's about. And that's fine. Because I don't expect one person
to know everything there is to know about EE.

I know I just bought me a Pioneer laserdisc player that blows PS
fuses, Pioneer DVD/CD 5-disc carousel and Wednesday a Sony CRT
projector then a replacement board and maybe the case, $50 and then
some and a Sony ST-80F tuner (the stand up kind with a round dial).

Do I know if Windows XP is or actually isn't posessed by Linda Blair
and Damien Thorne? Beats me, I cannot beat my computer.

[Steven]

On Oct 1, 8:44 am, Stratum wrote:
wrote:
I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

Lurking on-air personalities who want to know what the
intelligentsia are saying about them. We are the
intelligentsia. We're from outer space and France.

We are from France but we left and the details must remain MURKY.

[g]

In article .com, wrote:
I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
of frustrated old people around here.

Well, I'm 58.

greg

[RHF]

On Oct 1, 3:24 am, wrote:
Telamon wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Phil Kane wrote:

Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --

Doubtful. Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
staring at a computer. I've been saving every penny, such that I will
be able to retire at 40-45. Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).

Engineering is dull.

Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
Eduardo.

I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying. For example when I
was in college I worked for Sears. They instructed me to "sell
extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
thought it was un-necessary.

Sears didn't like me very much
- what with telling the truth.

I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
your posts indicate.

If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
about the subject of electronics/electrical devices. For example:

- Do you know what VHDL is?
- How about a state machine?
- Synchronous DDR?
- PCI Express?
- Flip-flop?
- What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
- What are constraints?

This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
what it's about. And that's fine. Because I don't expect one person
to know everything there is to know about EE.

SFTV,

None of which is required for the RRS Newsgroup.

Just turn on an AM/MW Radio or a Shortwave Radio
and Listen to it.

Buy a AM & FM Shortwave Radio - Listen To It !

Buy / Build a Shortwave Antenna and/or AM/MW Loop Antenna
and Use It !

Become and "Avid" AM/MW and Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) !

-Or- Become an Amateur {Ham} Radio Operator.

The name of the Newsgroup is : Rec.Radio.Shortwave
It's about the Hobby of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
and Broadcast Radio Listening (BCL) both of which are
Free and Over-the-Air.

-IF- You are 'interested' in Internet Radio WiFi Radio etc
There is the : Alt.Internet.Radio Newsgroup.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.radio/

Also there are Newsgroups Focused on IBOC "HD" AM/FM Radio
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...b362877f49b42a

hope this helps ~ RHF

[g]

In article , (G) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
of frustrated old people around here.


I know, the young are busy talking on the cell phone or are on the Ipod, are
saying blogging, and awesome.

Well we used to say Groovy, and Far Out, and used pay phones.

greg

[Brian S]

On Oct 1, 9:18 am, (G) wrote:
In article , (G) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

I'm 51 and have lived in the Bay Area all my life. I studied
Broadcasting at CSM back in the 70's, when they still had a hands on
program with Dan Odum. KCSM was on channel 14 and still in Black and
White. KCSM-TV had the ability to go color, at least on a part time
basis, but they purposely stayed in Black and White to give the
illusion of broadcast poverty, in order to help secure a grant to
increase power and to change frequencies to channel 60. The plan
worked remarkably well. They got everything they wanted, but the
students ended up getting shafted. Luckly that happened after I
graduated!

[John Slade]

"SFTV_troy" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Slade wrote:

And I agree, that's why I have a nonsense answer. Age has nothing to
do
with it. I've met young folk who act really mature and older people who
act
like little kids.



I'm seeing a lot of those "older people acting like kids" right here
on this group (insulting one another).


You know what? I made that same observation years ago...

John

[David Kaye]

On Oct 1, 8:47 am, (G) wrote:

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
of frustrated old people around here.

10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums. In fact, 15 years
ago there wasn't a Web as we know it. Google Groups may have been the
salvation of Usenet.

Actually, someone operating a for-profit news server could build some
market share by touting the uncensored nature of Usenet. They could
sell access and news clients for those people who don't have them.

[arthur[_5_]]

There are free NNTP servers as well as fee based NNTP servers

this is yet one more more no nothing post for a no nothing jerk

what the F'K does this have to do with *.audio.* ???

get lost lamer

arthur



On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:17:01 -0700, David Kaye
wrote:

Actually, someone operating a for-profit news server could build some
market share by touting the uncensored nature of Usenet. They could
sell access and news clients for those people who don't have them.

[Phil Kane]

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 03:24:02 -0700, wrote:

- Do you know what VHDL is?
- How about a state machine?
- Synchronous DDR?
- PCI Express?
- Flip-flop?
- What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
- What are constraints?

That's not electrical engineering, that's computer science.

This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
what it's about. And that's fine. Because I don't expect one person
to know everything there is to know about EE.

Not to denigrate Penn State, but graduates of the major EE (as
differentiated from CS) schools are expected to be fluent in most if
not all areas of ELECTRICAL engineering. Look at the exam syllabus
for registration of a PE and see how much you are fluent with.

I'm registered as a PE (Electrical) in four states and eligible for
registration in all the others as well as in foreign countries. I am
also licensed to practice law in all California and Federal courts and
before the Federal Communications Commission.

Are you?

I never did answer the title question - I'm 71 and the VP - General
Counsel and Engineering Manager of a major communications consulting
engineering firm in California. We design microwave and public safety
communication systems and submit necessary documentation to get them
licensed. We neither sell nor install equipment, but we do provide
our clients with project management services and with expert testimony
in disputes.
--
Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR

[David Kaye]

On Oct 1, 4:03 pm, Phil Kane wrote:

I never did answer the title question - I'm 71 and the VP - General
Counsel and Engineering Manager of a major communications consulting
engineering firm in California.

And you also managed to scarf up just about every top-notch
disillusioned engineer in the Bay Area to help!

[Phil Kane]

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 03:24:02 -0700, wrote:

I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying. For example when I
was in college I worked for Sears. They instructed me to "sell
extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
thought it was un-necessary.

Recently I had an expensive Nikon camera damaged by being knocked off
a table to a concrete floor. Had I not had an extended warranty
policy (read: insurance) the repairs would have cost me almost half of
what the camera cost, because they had to send to Japan for major
repair parts to rebuild it. As it was, what I paid for the policy was
far less than the repair would have cost.

Similarly, I had a hard disk die a few days after the extended
warranty period expired, and CompUSA was good enough to "stretch" the
expiration date and give me a new one at no cost. The cost of the
extended warranty was about 25% of the cost of a new one. That's the
major reason why I buy my components at CompUSA if they carry them.

I believe in extended warranties.
--
Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR

[Phil Kane]

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:07:09 -0700, David Kaye
wrote:

On Oct 1, 4:03 pm, Phil Kane wrote:

I never did answer the title question - I'm 71 and the VP - General
Counsel and Engineering Manager of a major communications consulting
engineering firm in California.

And you also managed to scarf up just about every top-notch
disillusioned engineer in the Bay Area to help!

Are you looking for a job, David? ggg

PS - we don't do Broadcast work. We send that to one of our joint
venture partners in the Pacific Northwest. They send their land
mobile and microwave work to us.
--
Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR

[Telamon]

In article . com,
wrote:

Telamon wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Phil Kane wrote:

Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --

Doubtful. Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
staring at a computer. I've been saving every penny, such that I will
be able to retire at 40-45. Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).

Engineering is dull.

Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
Eduardo.


I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.

That's an impossibility.

For example when I was in college I worked for Sears. They
instructed me to "sell extended warranties" I complied, but I also
told the customers that I thought it was un-necessary.

Sears didn't like me very much
- what with telling the truth.

That would be an expected result.

I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
your posts indicate.

If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
about the subject of electronics/electrical devices. For example:

snip

Not really. Just what you promote.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

[Brenda Ann]

"David Kaye" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 1, 8:47 am, (G) wrote:

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
of frustrated old people around here.

10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums. In fact, 15 years
ago there wasn't a Web as we know it. Google Groups may have been the
salvation of Usenet.


Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least as far back as 1983,
with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem (even the crude graphics
of the era took forever to load. The bad old days of CompuSlave et al when
net time was charged by the minute (about two dollars IIRC). Even then, the
forums were very popular, taking over the job that was mostly done by BBS's.

[David Kaye]

On Oct 1, 4:50 pm, Phil Kane wrote:

Are you looking for a job, David?

Well, it would feel like going home. I've always admired Tim Pozar's
work. David Doon busted the pirate station I was involved with, and
you've been a presence for quite a number of years here.

PS - we don't do Broadcast work. We send that to one of our joint
venture partners in the Pacific Northwest. They send their land
mobile and microwave work to us.

Yeah, I notice that you do a lot of local government work. Well heck,
there's a lot to be said for local govt. For one, compared with
broadcasters their checks are less likely to bounce....

[SFTV_troy]

Brenda Ann wrote:
"David Kaye" wrote in message

10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums.....

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least as far back as 1983,
with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem



Sorry hun, but that's NOT the world wide web (which is based-upon
multiple servers & using Hypertext Markup Language & active point-n-
click links). What we used on the old commodore 64 was a SINGLE
server called a BBS, and it didn't use hypertext, or a mouse.. It was
just plain-jane text. (Yes even on the C64, it was text.... but it
was drawn to look like pictures.)

That's what Usenet is - all text
It's like visiting an old BBS.

The world wide web was not invented until circa 1993, and did not
"boom" until around 1995 (with Windows and Mac-based Mosaic &
Netscape). And thus was born web-based forums which slowly but surely
drew people away from the "boring" Usenet.


(even the crude graphics of the era took forever to load)

Yeah. There's a huge difference between 56k and 0.3k. It used to
take me an hour to download a 170 kilobyte floppy. Now I do it in
about 5 seconds.

[SFTV_troy]

On Oct 1, 11:18 am, (G) wrote:

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
of frustrated old people around here.


I suspect if you took this poll in a "hip" group like rec.arts.tv or
alt.tv.smallville, you'd find a lot of young people. It would still
skew older, but there'd also be lots of teens and 20-somethings in the
mix.

[SFTV_troy]

Phil Kane wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 03:24:02 -0700, wrote:

- Do you know what VHDL is?
- How about a state machine?
- Synchronous DDR?
- PCI Express?
- Flip-flop?
- What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
- What are constraints?

That's not electrical engineering, that's computer science.


And thus you make yourself sound like an idiot. Hardware design is
*not* computer science (aka programming). ------ Besides my title is
"Electrical Engineer". Always has been, no matter where I worked.

This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
what it's about. And that's fine. Because I don't expect one person
to know everything there is to know about EE.

Not to denigrate Penn State, but graduates of the major EE (as
differentiated from CS) schools are expected to be fluent in most if
not all areas of ELECTRICAL engineering. ...

That sounds like a denigration of Penn State. They did teach me all
the basics, but not the advanced stuff (like synchronous AM reception
- whatever that is). To expect me to know that is unrealistic. And
not fair to the profs at Penn State. Every engineer has his or her
own specialty.



I'm registered as a PE (Electrical) in four states... I am also
licensed to practice law in all California and Federal courts

Wow. I'm impressed.

I passed the E.I.T. exam back in 1998, but never bothered to register
P.E. because I don't see any value in it. I'm still getting paid $55
an hour, and having a P.E. after my name is not going to drive that
Rate any higher.

Same with a Masters Degree. If I thought there was value in having
those, then I would go ahead and acquire them, but so far they've been
not necessary.

So how do you like law?

I was thinking about going back to earn a law degree (since I'm bored
with engineering).

[David Kaye]

On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least as far back as 1983,
with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong. There was no Web in 1983. Usenet existed in 1983,
but the Web was not invented until 1990, and it was not practical
until Mosaic in 1992. I called attention specifically to the Web
because the growth of Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen
into disuse.

[SFTV_troy]

Phil Kane wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 03:24:02 -0700, wrote:

I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying. For example when I
was in college I worked for Sears. They instructed me to "sell
extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
thought it was un-necessary.

Recently I had an expensive Nikon camera damaged by being knocked off
a table to a concrete floor. Had I not had an extended warranty
policy (read: insurance) the repairs would have cost me almost half of
what the camera cost, because they had to send to Japan for major
repair parts to rebuild it. ..........


Well there are exceptions to every rule, and your hyper-expensive
camera is that exception.

But in the case of a GE Refrigerator or a Sony stereo, an extended
warranty would be a waste. These items are so cheap & readily
available that, should they fail, you can easily take the ~$100 from
the "extended warranty" (which I the salesman told you not to buy),
and use it as downpayment to buy a new fridge or stereo.

The thing is: Most appliances DON'T fail. They follow a mortality
curve:

- HIGH - birth mortality (as a result of manufacturing flaws) -
covered for FREE by the manufacturer
- LOW - middle-of-life - virtually no failures.
- HIGH - geriatric mortality - around 15-20 years - the parts are old
& die - which is NOT covered by extended warranties, because these are
only 5-7 years in length.



The reason why Sears pushes salespeople to sell "extended warranties"
is because that's where the money's at. 99% of customers have no
problem whatsoever (or if they do, it's covered by the manufacturer's
FREE warranty, not sears), and thus Sears gets to pocket the money as
almost-100% profit. ----- Want to get rich? Sell insurance on
brand-new products, and make sure it expires at around 5 years, that
way you won't have to pay out, other than a few dollars here & there.



I bought an extended warranty for my Dodge Avenger. You know how many
times I used it?
- zero
- and when the Avenger eventually started failing (10 years), the
warranty was expired.
- and thus I wasted $700 for nothing.

I'll never do that again.



Similarly, I had a hard disk die a few days after the extended
warranty period expired, and CompUSA was good enough to "stretch" the
expiration date and give me a new one at no cost.

Yeah. But. You probably could have bought a brand-new hard drive,
same size, for the same amount of $$$ or just slightly more expensive,
as the extended warranty cost.

I just bought a 300 gig drive for only $70. They are dirt cheap
Cheaper than buying the crummy service plan.



I believe in extended warranties.

I don't. Everything I buy seems to last forever. If I bought
"extended warranties" I would just be wasting my money (see the
Avenger example), since I would never use them.

[SFTV_troy]

Telamon wrote:
wrote:


I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.

That's an impossibility.

James Cash Penney would disagree with you. (He was an extremely
religious and honest man - he even refused to accept credit cards, on
the grounds that he thought it wrong to drive people into debt. He
would rather lose a sale than do that.)




For example when I was in college I worked for Sears. They
instructed me to "sell extended warranties" I complied, but I also
told the customers that I thought it was un-necessary.

Sears didn't like me very much
- what with telling the truth.

That would be an expected result.

Uh huh. Good thing I became an engineer - I wouldn't be able to work
for long lying to Sears' customers.



I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
your posts indicate.

If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there
is to know about the subject of electronics/electrical devices.

Not really. Just what you promote.


Just because we don't share the same opinion, does not mean one of us
is idiotic. That premise is false Telemon. It could be that we are
both 100% correct (with respect to targeting different interest
groups). You are correct that AM is better for long-distance
listening for old people.

And I am correct that young people want many, many more stations on
the dial (they like variety).

We are both correct.










..

[Brenda Ann]

"David Kaye" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least as far back as
1983,
with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong. There was no Web in 1983. Usenet existed in 1983,
but the Web was not invented until 1990, and it was not practical
until Mosaic in 1992. I called attention specifically to the Web
because the growth of Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen
into disuse.

Not this time cowboy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

"
The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1, 1983
when all hosts on the ARPANET were switched over from the older NCP
protocols to TCP/IP. In 1985, the United States' National Science Foundation
(NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56 kilobit/second
network backbone using computers called "fuzzballs" by their inventor, David
Mills. The following year, NSF sponsored the development of a higher speed
1.5 megabit/second backbone that become the NSFNet. A key decision to use
the DARPA TCP/IP protocols was made by Dennis Jennings, then in charge of
the Supercomputer program at NSF."

[SFTV_troy]

Brenda Ann wrote:
"David Kaye" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least as far back as
1983,
with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong. There was no Web in 1983. Usenet existed in 1983,
but the Web was not invented until 1990, and it was not practical
until Mosaic in 1992. I called attention specifically to the Web
because the growth of Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen
into disuse.

Not this time cowboy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
"first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1983"


Bzzz.

We're not discussing the internet (which has been around a long, long
time). We're discussing the World Wide Web, which sits inside
browsers called Mosaic, Netscape, Explorer, Firefox, Safari, et
al..... and uses hyperlinks to jump from one server to another server.

THAT was not invented until circa 1992, and did not "boom" until
around 1995 when Mosaic/Netscape hit Windows and Macintosh machines,
and lots of users started experimenting with it for the first time.

The WWW did not exist in the 1980s.
We've told you this several times.
Please try to listen.



If you still are not convinced, try to imagine stepping into a time
machine, and carrying your modern-day PC back to 1990, and signing-up
with an Internet Provider. Would your web browser work?

No.

It absolutely would not work, because web-servers did not exist back
then. The WWW had not been invented yet.

[Eric F. Richards]

SFTV_troy wrote:


Phil Kane wrote:
That's not electrical engineering, that's computer science.


And thus you make yourself sound like an idiot.

(rolls eyes)

Oh, THIS should be good...

[Eric F. Richards]

"Brenda Ann" wrote:


Not this time cowboy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

"
The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1, 1983
when all hosts on the ARPANET were switched over from the older NCP
protocols to TCP/IP. In 1985, the United States' National Science Foundation
(NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56 kilobit/second
network backbone using computers called "fuzzballs" by their inventor, David
Mills. The following year, NSF sponsored the development of a higher speed
1.5 megabit/second backbone that become the NSFNet. A key decision to use
the DARPA TCP/IP protocols was made by Dennis Jennings, then in charge of
the Supercomputer program at NSF."


That's TCP/IP. Hate to side with these guys, but they're right this
time. The World Wide Web and HTTP were invented in 1990 by Tim
Berners-Lee.

--
Eric F. Richards,
"It's the Din of iBiquity." -- Frank Dresser

[Arny Krueger]

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

"David Kaye" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 1, 8:47 am, (G) wrote:

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young
people do not use, or do not like to use USENET.
Perhaps they are somewhere else. It was not like this10 to 15 years ago.
And, there is a
lot of frustrated old people around here.

10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums. In
fact, 15 years ago there wasn't a Web as we know it. Google Groups may
have been the salvation of Usenet.

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least
as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
acoustic modem (even the crude graphics of the era took
forever to load.

Usenet?

There were other networks of BBSs in those days.

There was no pracical, widely usable web in the 1980s.

This is typical of histories of the web:

http://www.w3.org/History.html

From it, the web seems to date back to the early 1990s, maybe 1992 or 1993.

The bad old days of CompuSlave et al
when net time was charged by the minute (about two
dollars IIRC).

Been there, done that.

Even then, the forums were very popular,
taking over the job that was mostly done by BBS's.

The trouble with local BBSs was the lack of traffic.

There were national and regional BBSs like ExecPC that addressed that
problem.

[Arny Krueger]

"David Kaye" wrote in message
oups.com
On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least
as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong. There was no Web in 1983. Usenet
existed in 1983, but the Web was not invented until 1990,
and it was not practical until Mosaic in 1992. I called
attention specifically to the Web because the growth of
Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen into
disuse.

Agreed.

[Arny Krueger]

"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message

"Brenda Ann" wrote:


Not this time cowboy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

"
The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational
by January 1, 1983 when all hosts on the ARPANET were
switched over from the older NCP protocols to TCP/IP. In
1985, the United States' National Science Foundation
(NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56
kilobit/second network backbone using computers called
"fuzzballs" by their inventor, David Mills. The
following year, NSF sponsored the development of a
higher speed
1.5 megabit/second backbone that become the NSFNet. A
key decision to use the DARPA TCP/IP protocols was made
by Dennis Jennings, then in charge of the Supercomputer
program at NSF."


That's TCP/IP. Hate to side with these guys, but they're
right this time. The World Wide Web and HTTP were
invented in 1990 by Tim Berners-Lee.

Agreed.

[Roadie]

On Oct 2, 10:07 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"David Kaye" wrote in message

oups.com

On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least
as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong. There was no Web in 1983. Usenet
existed in 1983, but the Web was not invented until 1990,
and it was not practical until Mosaic in 1992. I called
attention specifically to the Web because the growth of
Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen into
disuse.

Agreed.

Wait a minute...Arpanet was around and operational long before 1990.

[[email protected]]

Roadie wrote:
On Oct 2, 10:07 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"David Kaye" wrote in message

oups.com

On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

Sure there were. I was using web based forums at least
as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong. There was no Web in 1983. Usenet
existed in 1983, but the Web was not invented until 1990,
and it was not practical until Mosaic in 1992. I called
attention specifically to the Web because the growth of
Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen into
disuse.

Agreed.

Wait a minute...Arpanet was around and operational long before 1990.



We're not discussing ARPAnet. We're discussing the WWW.

What you are doing is equivalent to saying "Ipods existed in the 80s!"
just because some MP2s existed back then.

[David Kaye]

On Oct 2, 4:16 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:


Not this time cowboy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

The Internet is not the Web. I haven't said word one about the
Internet. Go back and look. I am talking *solely* about the Web.
The Web didn't exist until 1992.

This is an important difference because Usenet predates the Web, which
was my whole point all along. Actually, Usenet slightly predates the
Internet as we know it.

[Roadie]

On Sep 30, 2:42 pm, wrote:
I'm 35. Engineer. And you?

I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

0 and 100 I'm a Personal Consumer Consumption Facilitator