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#41
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Hee hee. Talk about a gullible idiot chump! I got a lot of components and am using home brew pbj. Bought several yards years back and gold plated plugs all at reasonable prices and soldered them myself with silver solder. retail they are about $50+ each pair. I'm no gic when it comes to audio and value BUT I do submit that anyone buys bose (not for the sound) but on brand name recognition is. I have listened with the standard interconnects that come with tape decks and or are made by radio shack and they do break up causing distortion. SO if that is what you are using I suggest you go to audiogon.com and pick up a pair of pbj for yourself and use them from your cd player to your pre and then from your pre to your power amp - you will hear a difference in the clarity especially during peaks. At least this was my experience. You're just trolling my man. |
#42
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:19:28 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT. Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the stratosphere? A totally uncalled-for attack. If you would only follow this guideline... |
#43
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:22:44 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "Logan Shaw" wrote in message Ian S wrote: "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Joe Sensor wrote: Sony's are not going to be the best either, though preferable over the Bose. In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT. Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the stratosphere? Seems that you can get some PSB bookshelf speakers for $349. That's not exactly Wal*Mart level prices, but do keep one thing in mind: it's still cheaper than your typical Bose satellite system! The point is well-taken. The real problem with Bose home audio isn't the quality (it would be good at some low price point), and there are no problems with the price points (they would be OK if the quality were commensurate). What's wrong with Bose is all about value. The price/performance problem with Bose home speakers becomes apparent when you compare them to similarly-priced offerings from PSB, Boston Acoustics, Energy, Paradigm, NHT and etc. Now THIS is he type of commentary that we could use more of from Mr. Krueger. Well-done. |
#44
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Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Australia does build some cool stuff, but you don't see a lot of it. Building stuff in Australia is often more difficult and more expensive than in the US. Let me put in a good word for the ARX audio gear here. Certainly not high end gear, but it's built a good bit better than typical MI-grade equipment and only priced a little higher. I think that's a place in the market that isn't really filled very well. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#45
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 06:12:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote: Of course in a quiet environment(home), they sound like the crap they are. I heard a "small weddings" band use 801's which were "adequate" for vocals only. Neither astonishingly good nor particularly bad, and probably better than the Shure Vocal Masher that comparable groups were using at the time. Around the same time, I heard a band that used them as their mids in clubs that were wider than long in leiu of their 12" horn loaded cabinets they used in spaces that were longer than wide. I thought their "Lifestyles" system they sold through Sharper Image sounded MUCH better than anything else in the SIZE family, but nowhere near as good as similarly-priced conventional speakers. The last time I had the budget for such things, I thought their mid-line sounded better than their top end, and that it was a "six-of-one" situation. But there's no such thing as "deep bass" from anything in that price/size range. If you line all of us up end to end, we'll point in all directions, of course. But my opinion is that in the price range of Bose you can probably do better with a conventional system. |
#46
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
... Joe Sensor wrote: Sony's are not going to be the best either, though preferable over the Bose. Just do a little surfing and research. I have a very nice Polk system. There are many others. In the bargain basement range I would look at PSB, Energy, some of the better Paradigm boxes, and NHT. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." On my initial reading of this post, I understood the poster to be disparaging the speakers mentioned by referring to them as "bargain-basement" and concluded that it was just another in the long line of snide unhelpful comments elicited by the original poster's request for help regarding his Bose speakers. I see that I was very likely wrong in my original impression and that Mr. Dorsey was indeed being helpful with his suggestion - "bargain basement" in this case meaning "good value". I therefore apologize to Mr Dorsey and retract my earlier comments directed to him. |
#47
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:59:56 -0800, Richard Crowley wrote:
The subject line says it all, doesn't it? :-) Help is needed all around: the company, the speakers, and the victims er. customers. Step 1: learn how to use a web browser Step 2: learn how to go to a search site such as google and search for "bose opinions" |
#48
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Ozzy 2005 wrote:
I have listened with the standard interconnects that come with tape decks and or are made by radio shack and they do break up causing distortion. They break up causing distortion? What type of distortion would this be? And what do you mean by "break up"? |
#49
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They break up causing distortion? What type of distortion would this be? And what do you mean by "break up"? I don't have a much better description, with the pbj the sound is clear with the no frills brands on peak material I get rattling in the tweeters. |
#50
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The article says that the data came from the August 1999 issue of Sound and Vision. Also other bencemark tests from a few independent audiophiles and industry professions are always consistent. Regards Brian Sound and Vision removed it from their site a couple of years later. It seems as if Bose has a real problem with actual testing of their equipment. Rule #1 of buying anything electronic or audio related: Don't buy anything you can't find specs for. This also applies to food - would you buy food at a grocery store that didn't have ingredients listed? (other than meat and such, of course) "Trust us - this can of soup is healthy" doesn't quite cut it. Why should it for audio either? |
#51
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"Trust us - this can of soup is healthy" doesn't quite cut it. Why should it for audio either? Obviously you haven't seen the TV commercials for the wave radio and the celebrity endorsements. Who needs specifications! Not to mention all the magazine ads. But I must admit I did always want one of the CD wave radios for the kitchen counter or to use as an alarm clock until I saw the price, I'm gonna check some auctions see what they go for used, I'll bet they retain 90% of their value due to all the demand the advertising creates. |
#52
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Brian wrote: I have a BOSE Acoustimass 7 (3 saterlite speakers and bass speaker) I brought this for surround sound. I have two BOSE VS100 small sized speakers at the back of the room, near the ceiling. I read in a article that the frequency range is: Base module 46Hz to 202Hz at +-2.3dB Satellites 280Hz to 13.3k Hz at +-10.5 dB Can someone who has tested these speaker confirm that this is the frequency range. There seems to be gaps at 20Hz to 46 Hz 202Hz to 280Hz and These gaps are really rather small. To get accurate figures for these or any other speakers, you'd have to test the speakers in your room, so that the acoustics of your room would be taken into account. Also, it's pretty likely that the frequency range of your speakers doesn't precisely start and end at, for example, 202Hz and 280Hz. More likely, the frequency range is a little lower below 202Hz and then falls away somewhat at 280Hz. It's really easy to get focussed on these sort of numbers and lose track of whether the speakers are doing what you want. Somebody else's measurements don't really tell you how the speakers will measure or sound in your room. Furthermore, no speaker is perfect, and all speakers will have some anomalies that prevent them from being perfect. Are you in some way dissatisfied with your speakers? If you're happy with the sound of your current speakers, then keep them. 13.3k Hz to 20K Hz. Assuming you can hear above 13.3kHz, there's little or no music there. Can you name something that you're missing way up there? That's much higher than anything you'd ordinarily hear. Almost all sound is much, much lower. I recently brought a sub woofer Is this new sub powered by its own amplifier, or is it powered by your receiver? to try and full in the gap at the low frequency range. The sub woofer is 28Hz to 200Hz. I can't see anyway of disableing the BOSE bass speaker so that the Sub Woofer is used. Can you tell us more about that new sub? What does the new sub's manual say about connecting the new sub to the receiver? I have a Surround 5.1 sound decoder in my DVD player and connected the player to the ampilifer using 6 leads (one for each speaker). In doing this I was hoping that the subwoofer would get only the low frewuency sounds. I have since found that the cut off frequency for the sub woofer filter built into the DVD player is 120K Hz. This leaves a gap from 120K Hz ....I think you meant to say "120Hz" here... to 202K Hz. ....I think you meant to say "200Hz" here... Again, this sort of gap really isn't a big deal, assuming it's really there. The acoustics of your room could cause much bigger anomalies. Due to the acoustics of your room, you might even have a peak between 120Hz and 202Hz. The sort of ranges you're discussing won't be exactly starting and stopping at the numbers you list. And within those sorts of ranges, output will still vary. At best, these sort of numbers are only a rough guide. If you really want to get serious about frequency response, you could start by getting a sound meter from Radio Shack and some test CDs that will provide test tones at different frequencies. Then you could do measurements in your room and start tweaking the sound there, not only by tweaking your gear, but by tweaking acoustics, listening position, etc. Even then, and even if you buy bigger, better, more expensive speakers, the results will at best still be a compromise. You haven't really said anything about feeling that you're missing anything in the music or that you're dissatisfied in any way with what you hear. Your only issues seem to be that you see a few numbers that fall short of perfection. Unfortunately, all speakers fall short of perfection. I'll add that it's way too easy to get stuck on speaker measurements and get confused, which is why some speakers provide few or no specs of the sort you're looking at. If you listen to your speakers in your room with CDs and DVDs you know and like, and the speakers sound OK then, do not add new speakers or replace your speakers. BTW, as you've undoubtedly discovered by now, there are some Bose detractors in the newsgroups. There are some speakers that are bigger and better than what you've got now, but if your speakers sound and look good to you in your typical use, that's all that matters. I've looked at your other posts in this thread, and I don't see you saying anything negative about the sound of your speakers, so I assume they sound OK to you. In that case, I wouldn't worry too much over frequency response, which you can only measure accurately in your own room anyway. If you want to move up to bigger speakers, try looking and buying at the smaller audio stores that have decent listening rooms that are like your room at home. That should give you some ideas about what bigger speakers would be like for you. If you buy more speakers, get return privileges, in case the new speakers don't sound good in your room. If you want to sell the Bose speakers, you'll find many bidders on eBay. An advantage of owning a really popular brand like Bose is that there's always a strong resale market. Another reason for connecting the amplifer with 6 leads was to be able to play super audio cd's (SA-CD). Any advice would be most welcome. Regards Brian |
#53
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#54
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"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message ... Hee hee. Talk about a gullible idiot chump! I got a lot of components and am using home brew pbj. Bought several yards years back and gold plated plugs all at reasonable prices and soldered them myself with silver solder. retail they are about $50+ each pair. I'm no gic when it comes to audio and value BUT I do submit that anyone buys bose (not for the sound) but on brand name recognition is. I have listened with the standard interconnects that come with tape decks and or are made by radio shack and they do break up causing distortion. In which case trhere is something very broken about them. SO if that is what you are using I suggest you go to audiogon.com and pick up a pair of pbj for yourself and use them from your cd player to your pre and then from your pre to your power amp - you will hear a difference in the clarity especially during peaks. Not if you don't know which are which. At least this was my experience. No, it was yor imagination. geoff |
#55
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"Joe Sensor" wrote in message A gap between 120 and 202 is "isn't a big deal"? Um, ok then. like, almost an whole octave !!! ;-) geoff |
#56
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"Ian S" wrote in news1t%d.292291$0u.280226
@fed1read04: Any chance you could get your snout any higher into the stratosphere? I suppose he could stick it up Bose's bottom, which so many wooden-eared people with more money than brains seem to do. -- Email, Smarthosting, Web hosting for individuals and business: Come to http://www.spamblocked.com "I ran the Malicious Software Removal Tool, and now all my MS ware is gone!" |
#57
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No, it was yor imagination. geoff All due respect geoff I understand the politics of using wire coat hangers for speaker wire and angel hair for interconnects. I'll stick with what I consider inexpensive but heavy enough gauge with gold plated connectors and you can use the flea market $0.10 a pair gray vinyl with rust for added warmth. I had several friends come over and it wasn't imagination. Maybe the interconnects were old and faulty this is possible, maybe it had to do with poor shielding or something but the distortion was there. So I take offense to your BS imagination claim. I'm not a professional but have enough knowledge to know distortion when I hear it. Soldering them on my own for what I paid for the wire and connectors in bulk though their retail value would be considerably higher they ended up costing pretty much just as much as RS. This is my bose type weakness. I'm not going to use $2.99 interconnects with $1,000 components. Sorry. But I must admit that I do use regular 12 gauge copper wire for my speakers. Though I wouldn't mind one of those expensive sets or even silver. As for the angel hair interconnects again I got no problems with them but again back to my original post that started this endless wire controversy crap. My interconnects are worth more than a Bose system, referring to the ahole salesman in the post referring to people wanting to compare the bose 'sound' to other higher fidelity components as penniless nerds. Also in there was the pinhead with his LOL on my 'costly' interconnects. Hey buy bose, get a technics or kenwood (not old stock 2005 production) and knock yourselves out if it makes you happy THAT IS WHAT COUNTS. But don't try and claim bose is high fidelity or that you can tell my ears are imagining things. Now go play with your coat hangers I hear the are great for FM reception too but I'll stick with my RS roof mounted thank you. BTW on that note I placed two 1.5 amp fuses inline where the wire comes into the house to theoretically protect against lightning - does that work at all - I'm thinking the lightning goes right through but I had them lying around when I did the wiring so I used them. What is a good way to protect against lightning. The whole mast is grounded. |
#58
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"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message ... BTW on that note I placed two 1.5 amp fuses inline where the wire comes into the house to theoretically protect against lightning - does that work at all - I'm thinking the lightning goes right through but I had them lying around when I did the wiring so I used them. What is a good way to protect against lightning. The whole mast is grounded. Polyphasers for lightning protection is the professional industry standard. http://www.polyphaser.com/ When in the full swing repair world, I would get the 'ol common "But I had it plugged into a surge supressor". Then I would pronounce my "rule of thumb" We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster. Best bet, un-plug it. after the fuse blows it will be too late. Sucks doesn't it? Do you live in a lightning prone area? Chad |
#59
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Brian wrote: Thanks Trevor and others for your reply's. Could someone suggest a suitable system to replace the BOSE speakers. I have a small sized room so a sub woofer with satellite speakers (surround sound 5.1 setup) would be more suitable at around 100 watts. The only speakers I have looked at so far are the Sony brand. Regards Brian http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...ory=ht_package |
#60
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Best bet, un-plug it. after the fuse blows it will be too late. Sucks doesn't it? Do you live in a lightning prone area? Chad Not really and it's been three years and quite a few lightning storms but I would guess that if it went down into the tuner that it wouldn't even stop there it would probably fry the entire system and maybe even make it down the speaker wires - nice thought. Will definitely check out the link or unplug here on in! |
#61
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"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message ... No, it was yor imagination. geoff All due respect geoff I understand the politics of using wire coat hangers for speaker wire and angel hair for interconnects. Que ? geoff |
#62
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Again, this sort of gap really isn't a big deal, assuming it's really there. The acoustics of your room could cause much bigger anomalies. Due to the acoustics of your room, you might even have a peak between 120Hz and 202Hz. Why should he not consider it a big deal when he can spend $100 on a pair of speakers that has no such problems? |
#63
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Chad Wahls wrote: We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster. (technically, it goes from the ground to the sky) |
#64
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All due respect geoff I understand the politics of using wire coat hangers for speaker wire and angel hair for interconnects. the gauge of the wire being so thin it is practically invisible |
#65
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"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message k.net... Chad Wahls wrote: We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster. (technically, it goes from the ground to the sky) Thechnically, it can go either way, and often goes first one way and then the other. |
#66
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"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message k.net... Chad Wahls wrote: We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster. (technically, it goes from the ground to the sky) Goes both ways, you can have a negative or positive strike. Chad |
#67
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"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message ... Best bet, un-plug it. after the fuse blows it will be too late. Sucks doesn't it? Do you live in a lightning prone area? Chad Not really and it's been three years and quite a few lightning storms but I would guess that if it went down into the tuner that it wouldn't even stop there it would probably fry the entire system and maybe even make it down the speaker wires - nice thought. Will definitely check out the link or unplug here on in! Not to be the bringer of bad tidings, but there's not really a thing you can do, it's nature. I've repaired countless pieces of gear that were damaged by lightning that were unplugged totally. A very close strike can induce huge currents on circuit boards and interconnects. Ma Nature has her ways eh? best bet, have insurance Chad |
#68
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Chad Wahls wrote: "Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message k.net... Chad Wahls wrote: We are talking about a bolt of eletricity with enough vengance to jump from a mile in the air to the ground. It's going to take any path it can find. Your (insert protection method) just helped it ge there faster. (technically, it goes from the ground to the sky) Goes both ways, you can have a negative or positive strike. The vast majority of the time, though, there is a small bolt that goes from the ground(almost invisible short of high speed photography), then the main bolt follows that path, more or less, down. |
#69
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The vast majority of the time, though, there is a small bolt that goes from the ground(almost invisible short of high speed photography), then the main bolt follows that path, more or less, down. Discovery Channel show had a name for them can't recall. |
#70
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Ozzy 2005 wrote: The vast majority of the time, though, there is a small bolt that goes from the ground(almost invisible short of high speed photography), then the main bolt follows that path, more or less, down. Discovery Channel show had a name for them can't recall. I think they are called leaders. Many years ago a gang of us were sitting in the kitchen of a retreat we rented on a lake in upstate New York when a serious electrical storm bound us to the house for the afternoon. There was a big old cast iron stove in the kitchen and we saw leaders reaching up from it as high as a few feet for a brief time before we hightailed it to a hopefully safer spot in the house. They are quite visible, at least indoors, and a bit noisy. They didn't connect with anything above but left us pretty shaken in anticipation. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#71
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I think they are called leaders. Many years ago a gang of us were sitting in the kitchen of a retreat we rented on a lake in upstate New York when a serious electrical storm bound us to the house for the afternoon. There was a big old cast iron stove in the kitchen and we saw leaders reaching up from it as high as a few feet for a brief time before we hightailed it to a hopefully safer spot in the house. They are quite visible, at least indoors, and a bit noisy. They didn't connect with anything above but left us pretty shaken in anticipation. Yes Leaders that's sounds familiar - very nice story - it got me nervous just considering the possibility |
#72
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"Ozzy 2005" wrote in message ... I think they are called leaders. Many years ago a gang of us were sitting in the kitchen of a retreat we rented on a lake in upstate New York when a serious electrical storm bound us to the house for the afternoon. There was a big old cast iron stove in the kitchen and we saw leaders reaching up from it as high as a few feet for a brief time before we hightailed it to a hopefully safer spot in the house. They are quite visible, at least indoors, and a bit noisy. They didn't connect with anything above but left us pretty shaken in anticipation. Yes Leaders that's sounds familiar - very nice story - it got me nervous just considering the possibility I thought it was leaders or streamers. It is an ionization of the air that acts as a conduit for the larger pulse. Chad |
#73
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Joseph Oberlander wrote: Again, this sort of gap really isn't a big deal, assuming it's really there. The acoustics of your room could cause much bigger anomalies. Due to the acoustics of your room, you might even have a peak between 120Hz and 202Hz. Why should he not consider it a big deal when he can spend $100 on a pair of speakers that has no such problems? I think the OP will need to spend more than $100 to get a set of HT speakers + sub that will have the sort of frequency response figures he's focused on. If you can recommend a $100 set of HT speakers + sub that will have the sort of numbers he wants, please do so. |
#74
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#76
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I have a BOSE Acoustimass 7 (3 saterlite speakers and bass speaker) I
brought this for surround sound. I have two BOSE VS100 small sized speakers at the back of the room, near the ceiling. I read in a article that the frequency range is: Base module 46Hz to 202Hz at +-2.3dB Satellites 280Hz to 13.3k Hz at +-10.5 dB Can someone who has tested these speaker confirm that this is the frequency range. There seems to be gaps at 20Hz to 46 Hz 202Hz to 280Hz and 13.3k Hz to 20K Hz. That is correct. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be. What you have discovered is exactly why many folks don't like Bose speakers. For the money, you can get much better sound. I recently brought a sub woofer to try and full in the gap at the low frequency range. The sub woofer is 28Hz to 200Hz. I can't see anyway of disableing the BOSE bass speaker so that the Sub Woofer is used. I have a Surround 5.1 sound decoder in my DVD player and connected the player to the ampilifer using 6 leads (one for each speaker). In doing this I was hoping that the subwoofer would get only the low frewuency sounds. I have since found that the cut off frequency for the sub woofer filter built into the DVD player is 120K Hz. This leaves a gap from 120K Hz to 202K Hz. Another reason for connecting the amplifer with 6 leads was to be able to play super audio cd's (SA-CD). Any advice would be most welcome. I would sell the Bose set up and get a decent set of speakers that does not have such huge gaps in it's sound reproduction. Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency gaps? |
#77
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Dan wrote:
Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency gaps? Absolutely not! Like any system or component, there are many different ways of building a quality system to achieve the desired results. But it takes enough money to do the proper research and development and buy the right quality components to avoid a compromised system, such as the Bose. There have been excellent satellite systems available for many, many years. M & K, for instance has been building such a system since the 70's. |
#78
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In article , Dan wrote:
Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency gaps? Most of them do, because most of them have satellites that are just too small to really cross over seamlessly. And the ones that _do_ have large enough satellites still usually have to cross the subwoofer over so high that there is a total lack of bass imaging. The human ear can't perceive real imaging at 20 Hz, but at 100 Hz it sure can, and most of the satellite-sub systems have substantial subwoofer output well above that. But I don't think ANY of them have as much midrange suckout as the Bose Acoustimass. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#79
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"Dan" wrote in message ... I have a BOSE Acoustimass 7 (3 saterlite speakers and bass speaker) I brought this for surround sound. I have two BOSE VS100 small sized speakers at the back of the room, near the ceiling. I read in a article that the frequency range is: Base module 46Hz to 202Hz at +-2.3dB Satellites 280Hz to 13.3k Hz at +-10.5 dB Can someone who has tested these speaker confirm that this is the frequency range. There seems to be gaps at 20Hz to 46 Hz 202Hz to 280Hz and 13.3k Hz to 20K Hz. That is correct. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be. What you have discovered is exactly why many folks don't like Bose speakers. For the money, you can get much better sound. I recently brought a sub woofer to try and full in the gap at the low frequency range. The sub woofer is 28Hz to 200Hz. I can't see anyway of disableing the BOSE bass speaker so that the Sub Woofer is used. I have a Surround 5.1 sound decoder in my DVD player and connected the player to the ampilifer using 6 leads (one for each speaker). In doing this I was hoping that the subwoofer would get only the low frewuency sounds. I have since found that the cut off frequency for the sub woofer filter built into the DVD player is 120K Hz. This leaves a gap from 120K Hz to 202K Hz. Another reason for connecting the amplifer with 6 leads was to be able to play super audio cd's (SA-CD). Any advice would be most welcome. I would sell the Bose set up and get a decent set of speakers that does not have such huge gaps in it's sound reproduction. Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency gaps? **Some do, though few are as bad as Bose. Any satellite which has published specs guaranteeing a performance down to around 100Hz (at less than -6dB) will provide relatively seamless blending with a subwoofer. Obviously, a lower response than 100Hz is even better. Naturally, the 280Hz response of the Bose satellites is a joke. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#80
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Do all satellite speaker systems with bass module have these frequency gaps? Actually, most anything with smaller than 4 inch speakers and a tweeter do, though a seperate tweeter is crutial. The best midrange speaker on the market that you could make a one-way speaker with is about 80hz to 16Khz, though with "flat" response. Yes, it's very pricey. Still, it doesn't get to 20Khz or down to low speaking voices, or say a bass guitar(50hz or so), so a 2-way speaker is pretty much non negotiable. |
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