How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

Put a ball in them and stick them under your mattress.

You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they break
in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter how
hard you play them, just not too hard at first.

LK


"Marcus" wrote in message
om...
How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they
break
in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter
how
hard you play them,
snip

That's right. It doesn't really matter how hard you play them. They "break
in" within seconds.

To the original poster: this subject has been discussed ad nauseum in this
group and in rec.audio.tech, among others. A simple google groups search
will tell you all you need to know about the topic. There seem to be two
groups making the arguments on both sides: those that read something from a
marketing department suggesting to "break speakers in", and those that have
performed the actual experiments or otherwise know how speakers work.

"Levi Kudrna" wrote in message
...
You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they
break
in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter
how
hard you play them, just not too hard at first.

LK

There is no need to break in subs. Just go and enjoy them, the suspension
will loosen up during the first couple of notes.

Les

In article ,
(Marcus) wrote:

How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

Listen to music. Don't push your new subs past their electrical limits.
Repeat.

--
cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*

you break in subs by playing them.
so why not just play them and dont worry about breaking them in..??

Marcus wrote:

How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

after you break them in and the suspension is JUST RIGHT, then
you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the
break in...

Levi Kudrna wrote:

You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they break
in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter how
hard you play them, just not too hard at first.

LK

"Marcus" wrote in message
om...
How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

i dont know why people can't understand that subs break in, you do not have
to break them in. Just play the damn things.

play the music low for 2 week
--
sl2perfec
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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"sl2perfect" wrote in message
s.com...
play the music low for 2 weeks
--
sl2perfect


Still believing in every audio myth you hear? There is NO need to break in a
sub. Just play it and enjoy, that is why we put them in.

Les

In article ,
(Marcus) wrote:

How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

Sometimes the suspension is stiffer when new. When replacing a sub with
the same model, you may notice reduced power handling ability or reduced
output compared to the old one. The new one should be up to specs
within a few hours of use.

There is no procedure to break in a sub. Just use it. Anybody who
tells you that it needs a multi-day break-in period is just trying
acclimate your ears to a bad sub.

BWHAHAHA..... that's funny.

FHLH..... "I broke-in my subs too much... need to buy new ones"..... whatta
great marketing gimmick....


"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
after you break them in and the suspension is JUST RIGHT, then
you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the
break in...

Levi Kudrna wrote:

You just have to play them for awhile maybe a week or two before they
break
in. When new, the suspension is fairl stiff yet. Doesn't really matter
how
hard you play them, just not too hard at first.

LK

"Marcus" wrote in message
om...
How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

yes, I have been installing for a long time and I have
seen many folks that broke in thier woofers TOO MUCH....

FHLH002 wrote:

BWHAHAHA..... that's funny.

FHLH..... "I broke-in my subs too much... need to buy new ones"..... whatta
great marketing gimmick....

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
after you break them in and the suspension is JUST RIGHT, then
you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the
break in...

"Les" wrote in message
m...

"sl2perfect" wrote in message
s.com...
play the music low for 2 weeks
--
sl2perfect


Still believing in every audio myth you hear? There is NO need to break in
a
sub. Just play it and enjoy, that is why we put them in.

Les



the only sub i ever broke in was made by "Orevox". The voice coil ripped the
paper cone and i threw it in the trash. cheap subs get real loud for a
minute when driven with 3 times their rated power, lol!

"MZ" wrote in message
...
How should I break in new subs?

Put a ball in them and stick them under your mattress.

Don't forget the Neatsfoot Oil and String.
LOL

hahah, yes, i know this... but the guy obviously has it in his head that he
needs to break them in..so why not tell him what he wants to hear?


"Les" wrote in message
m...

"sl2perfect" wrote in message
s.com...
play the music low for 2 weeks
--
sl2perfect


Still believing in every audio myth you hear? There is NO need to break in
a
sub. Just play it and enjoy, that is why we put them in.

Les

It's true that break-in for woofers (any moving coil driver) is not required
but you should be aware of a high-end audio suggested break-in technique that
can be very dangerous.

This suggests placing a pair of speakers (usually meaning multiway loudspeaker
systems with cabinets) face-to-face with out of polarity wiring and driving
them with a noise or other high-level signal for overnight or even days. The
idea is that with the speakers out-of-polarity the drivers will be 'exercised'
but much of the sound will cancel.

This is not only not necessary but quite dangerous. It's easy to lose track of
how much and how long power is being delivered, how the voice coil will get and
how easy it is to melt the glue or otherwise damage the driver.

Most suggested 'break-in' techniques can easily be turned into ways that
break-in your speakers too much.


Eddie Runner wrote:



yes, I have been installing for a long time and I have
seen many folks that broke in thier woofers TOO MUCH....

FHLH002 wrote:

BWHAHAHA..... that's funny.

FHLH..... "I broke-in my subs too much... need to buy new ones"..... whatta
great marketing gimmick....

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
after you break them in and the suspension is JUST RIGHT, then
you better not play them anymore... You dont want to over do the
break in...

Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has
stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a
sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub
sound less boomy.

From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about
two weeks after installing them.

Just my experience...
Don


On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:07:50 -0700, Marcus wrote:

How should I break in new subs? I have only purchased used subs in
the past so I have no idea which policy is best...Please answer and
TIA...

Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has
stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a
sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub
sound less boomy.

That's a much higher figure than I've seen reported elsewhere. Even so, how
audible do you think that change would be?


From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about
two weeks after installing them.

This is common. It's called becoming acclimated to your new audio system.
Two weeks is typical.

On Sun, 23 May 2004 12:38:53 -0400, "MZ"
wrote:

Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has
stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a
sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub
sound less boomy.

That's a much higher figure than I've seen reported elsewhere. Even so, how
audible do you think that change would be?


From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about
two weeks after installing them.

This is common. It's called becoming acclimated to your new audio system.
Two weeks is typical.

I was following a similar thread in rec.audio.high-end. One of the
posters had always believed in "breaking in" new speakers, and always
noticed a significant difference after a month of playing his new
speakers. Then one day, he bought a pair of speakers that had been
used for in-store demonstrations, and already had several hundred
hours of playing time on them. Sure enough, after he had them in his
house for a month, they sounded "different" to him, just like all of
the brand-new speakers had in the past. That was when he finally
realized that it wasn't the speakers that were "breaking in" - it was
his ears.

Scott Gardner

Don Joe wrote:

Just to add something... Eric Stevens, technician for Image Dynamics has
stated that after one to two weeks of usage, the resonant frequency of a
sub (an ID sub at least) can drop by as much as 20 to 25%, making the sub
sound less boomy.

Speaker SALESMAN always tell you that!
If you are not sure how great your new speakers sound, it is a way the
salesman can have you LIVE WITH IT for a couple of weeks before
complaining about the new speakers.... BY THEN, you will have probably
a) gotten used to them b) forgotten how your old speakers sounded in
comparison (humans cant remember sound differences very long)

Some speaker folks actually believe the speakers loosen up, but if they
loosen up 25% in two weeks, then it stands to reason they might loosen
up another 25% at the end of 4 weeks, and eventually be so loose they
wont work anymore... ;-)

I would like for someone to post some FS readings on a woofer and then
play it a couple weeks and then post the FS reasings again and report on
the difference.... no one has done this because there is no significant
difference..

From my experience, I wasn't extremely happy with my IDQ12s until about
two weeks after installing them.

You got used to them!
its a wonderfull salesmans tool to tell you to live with it a couple of
weeks..;-)
SUCKER!

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech

I asked around a little bit about speaker break-in after installing the Dyns in
my car. Dynaudio seems to feel that the speakers need 100 hours of use before
they've "broken in" and started sounding right. But I've got to call bull****
on that one and cite Scott Gardner's posting about the guy buying the demo
speakers and realizing that the break-in period is all b.s. The speakers do
sound slightly different to me today than they did at the beginning of February
when I had them installed, but that's probably due to the facts that:
1. I'm more used to them now
2. I made gain adjustements at the amp
3. I went back to the shop that installed them and we re-EQ'd the system.
The Klipsch speakers in my room sound slightly different now than when I bought
them, but that's probably because my ear has gotten more used to the slightly
bright "Klipschorn" tweeters they use.

I asked around a little bit about speaker break-in after installing the
Dyns in
my car. Dynaudio seems to feel that the speakers need 100 hours of use
before
they've "broken in" and started sounding right. But I've got to call
bull****
on that one and cite Scott Gardner's posting about the guy buying the demo
speakers and realizing that the break-in period is all b.s. The speakers
do
sound slightly different to me today than they did at the beginning of
February
when I had them installed, but that's probably due to the facts that:
1. I'm more used to them now
2. I made gain adjustements at the amp
3. I went back to the shop that installed them and we re-EQ'd the system.
The Klipsch speakers in my room sound slightly different now than when I
bought
them, but that's probably because my ear has gotten more used to the
slightly
bright "Klipschorn" tweeters they use.

I'm not entirely sure you can necessarily fault manufacturers for this
suggestion. Obviously they can't put in their manual: "If you don't like
our speakers at first, wait a while. Your ears will adjust. It's really
the difference in sound compared to what you're used to that may be the
culprit, rather than distaste for the tonal quality of the speakers
themselves."

Can you imagine the backlash? People would think it's just an excuse. They
would proclaim: "This company is nuts! I have perfect control over my likes
and dislikes. After all, I'm an audiophile!"

I'm not entirely sure you can necessarily fault manufacturers for this
suggestion.

I agree with you. I just think it's silly that this type of disclaimer is
neccesary just so people will stick out the adjustment period.

(Steve Grauman) wrote:




I asked around a little bit about speaker break-in after installing the Dyns
in
my car. Dynaudio seems to feel that the speakers need 100 hours of use before
they've "broken in" and started sounding right. But I've got to call bull****
on that one and cite Scott Gardner's posting about the guy buying the demo
speakers and realizing that the break-in period is all b.s. The speakers do
sound slightly different to me today than they did at the beginning of
February
when I had them installed, but that's probably due to the facts that:
1. I'm more used to them now
2. I made gain adjustements at the amp
3. I went back to the shop that installed them and we re-EQ'd the system.
The Klipsch speakers in my room sound slightly different now than when I
bought
them, but that's probably because my ear has gotten more used to the slightly
bright "Klipschorn" tweeters they use.

I've done the experiments on break-in. At the behest of manufacturers who
claimed that their drivers needed "break-in" I performed 3 different
experiments (one of the was Dynaudio) using the recommended break-in
techniques. But I also either demanded that the manufacturer supply 4 samples
(so I could break-in "some" of them) or that they supply me with already
broken-in samples AND fresh samples.

Here's the deal: when you measure a woofer immediately following break-in (when
the voice coil is still hot) you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs) will
be 5-10% lower but the compliance (Vas) will be correspondingly higher.

Using either set of measured parameters in a box-modeling program will produce
the same enclosure as optimal. This means that if the 'changes' were real they
are off-setting.

Now install a fresh sample and a broken-in sample in identical enclosures and
guess what ...... identical performance.

Now take the broken-in sample and let it sit for a few hours and guess what
...... it will slowly return to the values you measured when it was stone cold
and fresh out of the box.

So the best that could be said is that drivers may "warm up" but they don't
"break-in." And even if they did it doesn't matter ..... they sound the same
either way.

I've done the experiments on break-in. At the behest of manufacturers who
claimed that their drivers needed "break-in" I performed 3 different
experiments (one of the was Dynaudio) using the recommended break-in
techniques. But I also either demanded that the manufacturer supply 4
samples
(so I could break-in "some" of them) or that they supply me with already
broken-in samples AND fresh samples.

Tom, I'd love to see your data if it's available. I'm not questioning your
claims. Rather, I want to further back mine up.

Here's the deal: when you measure a woofer immediately following break-in
(when
the voice coil is still hot) you'll find that the free air resonance (Fs)
will
be 5-10% lower but the compliance (Vas) will be correspondingly higher.

How much of this is due to the supposed suspension change (ie break-in) and
how much is due to an increase in DCR?

How long does it take US to BREAK YOU IN..??

Nousaine wrote:

I've done the experiments on break-in.

MZ wrote:

Tom, I'd love to see your data if it's available. I'm not questioning your
claims. Rather, I want to further back mine up.

Tom NEVER shares his data!!
He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before
but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-)

Tom NEVER shares his data!!
He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before
but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-)


I'd love to see some real world data indicating that speaker characteristics
actually change after a break-in period. Let's say 100 hours or so. I know near
nothing about such testing but I'm still confident that such a change does not
occur.

I would be willing to do some FS testing with my LMS computer
and publish the data, but I just dont have a good pair of speakers
to try it with right this second.... I will get something together
pretty soon....

Eddie

Steve Grauman wrote:

Tom NEVER shares his data!!
He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before
but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-)


I'd love to see some real world data indicating that speaker characteristics
actually change after a break-in period. Let's say 100 hours or so. I know near
nothing about such testing but I'm still confident that such a change does not
occur.

I would be willing to do some FS testing with my LMS computer
and publish the data, but I just dont have a good pair of speakers
to try it with right this second.... I will get something together
pretty soon....

I'd definitely be interested. Based on what I know (which is admittedly very
little), I just can't see how anything of value to sound reproduction could
change about a speaker after a "break-in" period. Of course, this assumes that
the speakers are used properly. Damaging the speaker will obviously cause a
change in sound quality.

Steve Grauman wrote:

I just can't see how anything of value to sound reproduction could
change about a speaker after a "break-in" period.

I can see how a speaker COULD change during a break in period,
what I cant see is how the speaker would know to STOP breaking
in when the break in period was over, or in other words why a speaker
would not just continue to change as you continue to play it...

I think I have some brand new 12s in the store today I will measure the
FS of both of them, they are probably nearly the same, and then I will hook one
up in our display board which plays 24/7 and play it for a week, 168 hours
a week.... then I will measure the FS of the woofer thats been played and
compare it again to the one that has not been played.....

I can measure this on my LMS computer, and post the results on my
web site...

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech

I can see how a speaker COULD change during a break in period,
what I cant see is how the speaker would know to STOP breaking
in when the break in period was over, or in other words why a speaker
would not just continue to change as you continue to play it...

You're right. The way I see it either:
A. The break-in period does nothing to change the speaker's characteristics (as
far as audible differences are concerned) or

B. The speaker will *continue* to change after break-in, eliminating the chance
of getting consistant sound over a long (2+ years) run of usage.

Steve Grauman wrote:

You're right. The way I see it either:
A. The break-in period does nothing to change the speaker's characteristics (as
far as audible differences are concerned) or

This is probably true.

B. The speaker will *continue* to change after break-in, eliminating the chance
of getting consistant sound over a long (2+ years) run of usage.

Continue breaking in the speaker till the speaker breaks...! ha ha ha

Eddie Runner wrote:




MZ wrote:

Tom, I'd love to see your data if it's available. I'm not questioning your
claims. Rather, I want to further back mine up.

Tom NEVER shares his data!!
He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before
but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-)

So Eddie you never read Car Stereo Review or Mobile Entertainment. Most
everything I've said here has been published for everyone to see.

(Steve Grauman) wrote:



Tom NEVER shares his data!!
He has said he has blah blah blah data 100 times on here before
but I have never seen him show anyone the aleged data.... ;-)


I'd love to see some real world data indicating that speaker characteristics
actually change after a break-in period. Let's say 100 hours or so. I know
near
nothing about such testing but I'm still confident that such a change does
not
occur.

Look for old issues of CSR. This was published. But, frankly, if speakers did
"change" with use why would they stop changing at the "break-in" time?

You can test this yourself with a 1000-ohm resistor a test cd and a voltmeter
by checking the system resonance (Fsb) of a system.

Look for old issues of CSR. This was published.

I'm not doubting you personally Tom. I'm doubting the claims of manufacturers
who say that a break-in period (100 hours in the case of my Dynaudios) will
alter the physical characteristics of a speaker enough to cause an audible
change in character. If this were the case, as Eddie pointed out, then the
sound of your speakers should constantly be changing, because the speakers will
never stop "breaking in", anything that happens in the initial 100 should
continue happening thereafter. The only other option I can see, as per my
earlier post, is that character changes of a physical nature and of a degree
great enough to create differences audible to the human ear simply do not occur
in speakers - at least not in *all* speakers.

Nousaine wrote:

So Eddie you never read Car Stereo Review or Mobile Entertainment. Most
everything I've said here has been published for everyone to see.

Nope, they publish too much bull****... I dont waste my money on most magazines.

Many articles are trumped up crap that some writer just makes up.

In some magazines I see your articles that say moving a woofer box around
in a car wont change the bass ressponse, and we all know IT DOES....
http://www.installer.com/tech/aiming.html

In other magazines we see Richard Clark
telling folks he was the first to ever use a big capacitor in a competition car,
and we
know that Wayne Harris competed 8 years before RC did with caps...And others
did also (I am using Wayne because it is a documented fact and I was there when he
did)....

I had a customer come in my store with an article that claimed a
stereo system in a TRANS AM had 15 miles of speaker wire and the installers used
50 Lbs of solder to do the job!! Think about this for a minute, 15 miles of
wire from
front to back the the car would make a bundle about 2ft diameter, ha ha ha NO WAY

and 50 Lbs of solder??? Solder usually comes in 1 Lbs rolls, ONE will last me for

months if not longer...!!! 50 rolls on one car..?? I dont think so.... LIES
LIES LIES...

1) the magazines need articles so they sometimes take ANYTHING to make their
deadline.
2) the magazines manytimes wanna just please their advertisers so they do articles
that are BIASED
3) many of the writers are MORONS, even when they interview ME about FACTS I KNOW
they
usuallys still write the articles WRONG!!

I know alot of folks read these bull**** magazines and think everything in them is
GOSPEL!
And I know thats why you want folks to see your articles instead of trying to
provide independent facts.

oh well.....

Eddie Runner
Always ready to publish MY facts....
http://www.installer.com/tech/