I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers. The front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6 I could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds. I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.

Thanks.

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers. The
front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6 I
could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker
in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds.
I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners
claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front
doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.


Don't do it, you will never get bass out of your door panel speakers,
you just can not get enough size in the door to get bass out. I have
tweets and mids in my doors, with capacitors to cut the bass out, so they
do not try to even respond to bass, just cleah hi and mid from the doors.
Bass comes from the two sixes in the rear seat side panels, and the
fiberglass box built into the spare tire that holds a double voice coil 8"
sub. (I have a 928, so the layout is a bit different, but still there is
very little room.)

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.


They will hack up your doors, and you will see very little improvement
then to fix it, you will need new door panels. Don't do it, add bass from
another spot in the car, you will be much happier.

Bernard

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker
in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds.
I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners
claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front
doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.

It probably is possible. That doesn't mean you'll find a place that will
agree to do it or will even be able to do it. I had a similar problem with
my Caddy. I went to 10 different shops that said it couldn't be done -
mounting depth and so forth would make it "impossible". Finally, #11 said
it could be done and they did it and it sucked. I had to end up doing it
myself. Here are before and after shots where I fixed their mistakes...

http://mdz.no-ip.org/audio/install/speakers.html


What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.

Why would you want to cut up your 944? I think Bernard's advice is probably
best. I've never worked on one of these cars, but if there's a stock
location in the rear doors, put your midbass drivers back there and leave
your plates up front. You should also consider adding a subwoofer. It can
be done without taking up much space or modifying the vehicle.

"MZ" wrote in message
...

Why would you want to cut up your 944?

I'm really desperate to have great sound quality in my car. I love my music
sounding clean and clear. You don't know the headaches I had/have trying to
achieve great SQ in my car. It's a nightmare, because all the time I spent
adjusting my headunit, external amp, etc, has not improved very much at all.

I should also mention that I had a pair of 6x9 speakers custom installed in
the hatch area over the summer. Those produce decent bass, but not the
greatest. All my speakers are amped, not powered off of the headunit.

What does one need to do to get the same SQ of a home stereo system in a
car? From reading Bernard's reply, I understand that I will never have good
bass upfront, no matter what size speakers I put in the doors. Is that
really true? I always thought the bigger the speaker, the better bass
response.

Why would you want to cut up your 944?

I'm really desperate to have great sound quality in my car. I love my
music
sounding clean and clear. You don't know the headaches I had/have trying
to
achieve great SQ in my car. It's a nightmare, because all the time I spent
adjusting my headunit, external amp, etc, has not improved very much at
all.

I should also mention that I had a pair of 6x9 speakers custom installed
in
the hatch area over the summer. Those produce decent bass, but not the
greatest. All my speakers are amped, not powered off of the headunit.

What does one need to do to get the same SQ of a home stereo system in a
car? From reading Bernard's reply, I understand that I will never have
good
bass upfront, no matter what size speakers I put in the doors. Is that
really true? I always thought the bigger the speaker, the better bass
response.

Bass response depends on a number of factors. Yes, you want a larger
speaker and one that can handle a pretty good amount of power. You also
want adequate amplification. These are basically things you buy - not a big
deal. The difficulty is often in the installation. You want to make sure
that the driver is securely seated (and sealed) against its mounting
location and that the mounting location is not free to move. You also want
to make sure that any nearby gaps in the door are blocked (I find it easiest
to make a dynamat sandwich around the hole). And, of course, make sure that
the midbass drivers are in phase with one another.

So explain to me what the stock locations are like in the rear seat side
panels that Bernard referred to. What size speaker can fit there? I've
never worked on one of these cars...

I usually put 6X9s in the rear speaker location - you can do it without
cutting the covers, but on the 85.5 and earlier you have to cut some sheet
metal, and you have to be careful on orientation. If you want a low-rider
type of bass that can be heard 4 blocks away, you have the wrong car. If
you want OK sound, some good 6X9s in the rear, and good 4X6 in the front (I
had best luck with kenwood - beware of depth because the window channel runs
behind the speaker magnet) - will give you quite good sound. To get the
same quality as a home stereo, depending on the particular home stereo, I'd
guess you could spend upwards of $50,000 - it would be cheaper to buy a car
especially for music.


snip

So explain to me what the stock locations are like in the rear seat side
panels that Bernard referred to. What size speaker can fit there? I've
never worked on one of these cars...

Came across this whilst surfing on Ebay. I can't say I know anything about
this particular model of speaker but it's another option for you.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...1473 023&rd=1

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faqst.html


Ray wrote:

I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers. The front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6 I could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds. I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.

Thanks.

I really like what this guy did to his 944 for a sound system:
http://personal.inet.fi/surf/porschenet/own944/install/

How many subs would be adequate for a 944? Since 944's are small cars, would
a single 10" subwoofer produce good bass? Or would I need two 10" subs? Or
would two 8" subs be even better? I don't like "booming" bass, but I do want
to hear bass that is not distorted and sounds clean at high volume levels.
With my current setup, when I have the volume high, bass drum kicks sound
terrible.

After reading everyone's replies, maybe it's not worth it to have 6-1/2"
speakers installed in the front doors. Maybe I should just keep my existing
Polk 4x6 plates, replace the rear hatch 6x9's with some MB Quart 6x9's, and
get a sub or two, and purchase a new amplifier.

I usually put 6X9s in the rear speaker location - you can do it without
cutting the covers, but on the 85.5 and earlier you have to cut some sheet
metal, and you have to be careful on orientation. If you want a low-rider
type of bass that can be heard 4 blocks away, you have the wrong car. If
you want OK sound, some good 6X9s in the rear, and good 4X6 in the front (I
had best luck with kenwood - beware of depth because the window channel runs
behind the speaker magnet) - will give you quite good sound. To get the
same quality as a home stereo, depending on the particular home stereo, I'd
guess you could spend upwards of $50,000 - it would be cheaper to buy a car
especially for music.

You can get great sound for under $1000k

I really like what this guy did to his 944 for a sound system:
http://personal.inet.fi/surf/porschenet/own944/install/

How many subs would be adequate for a 944? Since 944's are small cars, would
a single 10" subwoofer produce good bass? Or would I need two 10" subs? Or
would two 8" subs be even better? I don't like "booming" bass, but I do want
to hear bass that is not distorted and sounds clean at high volume levels.
With my current setup, when I have the volume high, bass drum kicks sound
terrible.

A single 10" sub would be more than enough. The only thing multiple subs
give you is increased efficiency (by virtue of added cone area) and
increased power handling. If you use an amplifier that's big enough for
your listening needs and a subwoofer that can handle that power, then you
can use a single 10.

After reading everyone's replies, maybe it's not worth it to have 6-1/2"
speakers installed in the front doors. Maybe I should just keep my existing
Polk 4x6 plates, replace the rear hatch 6x9's with some MB Quart 6x9's, and
get a sub or two, and purchase a new amplifier.

You could even go with a 6-1/2" speaker in the back. There are adapters
to fit them in 6x9 holes. And most shops will do that for you without
screwing it up. You'll expand your possibilities with a 6-1/2. In fact,
you may not need to go with coaxials in the back. I'd recommend actually
using just a 6-1/2" midbass driver without a tweeter. Let the highs come
from the 4x6 plates in front of you. If mounting depth is still a concern
in the back, you may have to choose something other than MB Quart.

"MZ" wrote in message ...
Why would you want to cut up your 944?

I'm really desperate to have great sound quality in my car. I love my
music
sounding clean and clear. You don't know the headaches I had/have trying
to
achieve great SQ in my car. It's a nightmare, because all the time I spent
adjusting my headunit, external amp, etc, has not improved very much at
all.

I should also mention that I had a pair of 6x9 speakers custom installed
in
the hatch area over the summer. Those produce decent bass, but not the
greatest. All my speakers are amped, not powered off of the headunit.

What does one need to do to get the same SQ of a home stereo system in a
car? From reading Bernard's reply, I understand that I will never have
good
bass upfront, no matter what size speakers I put in the doors. Is that
really true? I always thought the bigger the speaker, the better bass
response.

Bass response depends on a number of factors. Yes, you want a larger
speaker and one that can handle a pretty good amount of power. You also
want adequate amplification. These are basically things you buy - not a big
deal. The difficulty is often in the installation. You want to make sure
that the driver is securely seated (and sealed) against its mounting
location and that the mounting location is not free to move. You also want
to make sure that any nearby gaps in the door are blocked (I find it easiest
to make a dynamat sandwich around the hole). And, of course, make sure that
the midbass drivers are in phase with one another.

So explain to me what the stock locations are like in the rear seat side
panels that Bernard referred to. What size speaker can fit there? I've
never worked on one of these cars...


Your quest to produce high end sound in a car that is equivalent to
high end sound in a high end home system is difficult for some of the
following reasons.
1. The vibration of a car in motion causes unwanted vibration in the
speaker that significantly reduces the "accuracy" of the speaker.
Many efforts have been made to reduce this vibration and do improve
things, but it's VERY difficult to totally elimate vibration.
2. The size of the speaker doesn't necessarily correlate with the
bass response. Yes, you need a minimal size to generate the
vibration, but you also need a certain amount of space for an accurate
bass response to be realized.
I would suggest that you install a fun system that you enjoy in the
car and persue high end stereo in your home.

Power windows or manual? We used to either use a custom-built plate with
Audax 4" mids and 1" silk domes that fit under the stock grilles, or
top-mounted an a/d/s/ 300i or 300is plate speaker over the stock
opening, which had to be slightly enlarged. Those were 5.25" 2-way
systems. Anything bigger than that you're going to have to do a door
build-out or kick panels.

JD

Ray wrote:

I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers. The front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6 I could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds. I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.

Thanks.

The 928 isn't "a little different", it's a whole different ballgame as
far as speaker options.

JD

Bernard Farquart wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...


I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers. The
front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6 I
could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker
in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds.
I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners
claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front
doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.




Don't do it, you will never get bass out of your door panel speakers,
you just can not get enough size in the door to get bass out. I have
tweets and mids in my doors, with capacitors to cut the bass out, so they
do not try to even respond to bass, just cleah hi and mid from the doors.
Bass comes from the two sixes in the rear seat side panels, and the
fiberglass box built into the spare tire that holds a double voice coil 8"
sub. (I have a 928, so the layout is a bit different, but still there is
very little room.)



What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.




They will hack up your doors, and you will see very little improvement
then to fix it, you will need new door panels. Don't do it, add bass from
another spot in the car, you will be much happier.

Bernard

Rear doors? it's a 2-door... the 944 stock front speakers are
compromised for clearance (depth & diameter of the magnet) by the window
track that intersects the speaker cavity, the dashboard overhangs the
grill area (most years) making it tough to top mount anything, and in
manual window vehicles the window crank is also in the way.

The rear speakers are upgradeable by removing the rear side panels,
which is generally best done by taking out the rear side glass and
unsticking the vinyl trim where it wraps the lower edge of the window
opening. You can drop a sub into either a baffle board or fiberglass
enclosure that fits one of the storage cavities on either side of the
spare tire storage well, which can also be converted for a subwoofer
location if you can live without the spare.

It is possible to make these cars sound good, but very difficult to do
without modifying the stock panels or other interior materials to some
degree.

JD

MZ wrote:

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size speaker


in


the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want rounds.


I


would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944 owners


claim


that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front


doors


because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still think
it's possible.



It probably is possible. That doesn't mean you'll find a place that will
agree to do it or will even be able to do it. I had a similar problem with
my Caddy. I went to 10 different shops that said it couldn't be done -
mounting depth and so forth would make it "impossible". Finally, #11 said
it could be done and they did it and it sucked. I had to end up doing it
myself. Here are before and after shots where I fixed their mistakes...

http://mdz.no-ip.org/audio/install/speakers.html




What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from being
installed.



Why would you want to cut up your 944? I think Bernard's advice is probably
best. I've never worked on one of these cars, but if there's a stock
location in the rear doors, put your midbass drivers back there and leave
your plates up front. You should also consider adding a subwoofer. It can
be done without taking up much space or modifying the vehicle.

Yech... the guy said he wanted it to sound good. Why hack the car for a
miserable 6x9 upgrade?

JD



william_b_noble wrote:

I usually put 6X9s in the rear speaker location - you can do it without
cutting the covers, but on the 85.5 and earlier you have to cut some sheet
metal, and you have to be careful on orientation. If you want a low-rider
type of bass that can be heard 4 blocks away, you have the wrong car. If
you want OK sound, some good 6X9s in the rear, and good 4X6 in the front (I
had best luck with kenwood - beware of depth because the window channel runs
behind the speaker magnet) - will give you quite good sound. To get the
same quality as a home stereo, depending on the particular home stereo, I'd
guess you could spend upwards of $50,000 - it would be cheaper to buy a car
especially for music.


snip


So explain to me what the stock locations are like in the rear seat side
panels that Bernard referred to. What size speaker can fit there? I've
never worked on one of these cars...

Nice article, but he blows it on the rear side panel removal for the
944's... it takes literally seconds to pop the rear side windows out and
not much more to put them back in - a piece of strong and a little soapy
water or other lube makes that a breeze. Then you don't have to worry
about tearing the vinyl edge from the rear side panels where it wraps
the window or having it bunched up and funky from trying to retuck it,
not to mention with the side pane out of the way completely you can do a
civilized install on the speaker. Trying to work under the panel when
it's still attached is a pain in the ass and totally unnecessary.
Probably impossible to do it on a 20 year old vehicle w/o damage, too.

JD

doug wrote:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faqst.html


Ray wrote:

I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers.
The front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any
decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6 I
could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a
pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great
either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size
speaker in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want
rounds. I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944
owners claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the front
doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still
think
it's possible.

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from
being
installed.

Thanks.

yes, I agree that a million dollars ($1000K) would buy a great sound system
in any car.

my point wasn't so much that you had to spend a particular amount of money,
but rather if you go to a high end stereo store you can EASILY spend
$500,000 on a basic stereo (don't believe me, check prices of Mark Levinson
equipment, for example). the original poster said he wanted the same
quality as in his living room. This was my rather sarcastic way of pointing
out that it was a nonsensical request. I think when I bought my 944 new, I
put close to a grand into a basic stereo - about $700 for a kenwood cassette
deck, $100 each for front and rear speakers, and another $100 for a small
amplifier for the rear speakers that I put next to the computer under the
front floor boards. This gave me totally satisfactory sound, but it was a
very very very far cry from my home system.

snip


You can get great sound for under $1000k

doug wrote:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faqst.html

Kevins snapshot of my FAQ is a bit old. Here is my latest version - though it has
not been updated in a while either...:

http://reality.sgiweb.org/wws/stereo_faq.html

In my '86, I used Audax 4x6 woofers (no tweeters) in the doors. They just
barely fit, using the late model speaker grilles/spacers. I then hid a pair
of Audax tweeters in the lower portion of the HVAC vents on either side of the
dash (protected, of course, by crossover caps.)

I also used the Audax 4x6 woofers, again no tweeters, in the rear side panels.

Then did a lot of messing around with an SPL meter and test CD to try to tune
things. Finally just tweaked 'by ear'. It sounds fairly good - way better
than the stock system - but certainly won't win any 'sound offs'.

A few of design/implementation principles that I followed guided the above:

1.) Reasonable cost, and no cutting up of metal, or (expen$ive) interior
panels/upholstery. My car looks almost exactly as it came from the factory.

2.) The 944 is an inherently noisy car (but that is part of its charm!)
So it really doesn't pay to go true high end.

3.) I like my sound stage to appear in the front. So rear tweeters were
not needed, nor used.

4.) The front woofers were tuned for midrange and midbass. No deep bass
via EQ. Also re-used the old fader control to tweak the balance between
the front 4x6s and the tweets.

5.) The rear speakers were tuned, again by EQ, for deep bass ONLY. They
aren't very happy, but that is life. I probably should have used larger
than 4x6, and may revisit this someday.

6.) Watch out for the broad interior resonance between, say, 200 hz and 2k hz.
It can overwhelm the precious deep bass. I spent quite a bit of time tuning
around it.

As far as round vs elliptical (oval) speakers, given equal quality of
construction, I would rather have a 4x6 than a 3.5" or 4" round such as
found in those "plate" speaker systems. A bit more surface area and
therefore lower Fs (resonance point). The problem is finding a good quality
4x6 woofer. At the time I was looking, about 6 years ago, the Audax was
the best I could find.

And back to the door. The stock speaker location is really tricky to get
anything larger than a 4x6. And even that is a problem for two reasons - the
steel window track right behing the speaker, and on the other side, clearance
with the side of the dashboard. (944 Cab owners are lucky - with the smaller
window, it is easy to fit a much larger/deeper speaker.) My Audax drivers are
perhaps a mm or two too deep, but somehow I make do.

The factory M490 speaker system used the door cubbies as speaker chambers
for larger drivers. Then they mounted the tweeter up high on the door -
above the power window controls. Dunno if Porsche still has M490 parts in
stock, but perhaps you could get lucky and find them at a wrecking yard.
Or make something of your own?

Hope this helps,

Walt - 86 944 NA
-...-
Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)

John Durbin wrote:

Nice article, but he blows it on the rear side panel removal for the
944's... it takes literally seconds to pop the rear side windows out and
not much more to put them back in...

You are right about that. Just ask the guys who broke into my 944
a few years back...

Some remove the rear window, some don't. With practice, it is almost as
fast either way.

Walt - 86 944 NA (with DEI 4 channel amp too)
-...-
Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)

yes, I agree that a million dollars ($1000K) would buy a great sound system
in any car.

my point wasn't so much that you had to spend a particular amount of money,
but rather if you go to a high end stereo store you can EASILY spend
$500,000 on a basic stereo (don't believe me, check prices of Mark Levinson
equipment, for example). the original poster said he wanted the same
quality as in his living room. This was my rather sarcastic way of pointing
out that it was a nonsensical request.

It's nonsensical because the best money could buy could not match what can
be achieved in the home, simply because of the acoustical limitations of
the car. But this isn't really relevant. My point was that you can
install a terrific sound system in a car for under $1000k (sic),
installation not included (since it's virtually impossible to predict that
aspect of the price).

I think when I bought my 944 new, I
put close to a grand into a basic stereo - about $700 for a kenwood cassette
deck, $100 each for front and rear speakers, and another $100 for a small
amplifier for the rear speakers that I put next to the computer under the
front floor boards. This gave me totally satisfactory sound, but it was a
very very very far cry from my home system.

Things have changed. $1000 will buy you a thousand watts of power, a good
front set of component speakers, and a subwoofer with enclosure, and a CD
player of course (unless you wanted to keep the stock one).

Rear doors? it's a 2-door...

Of course. I meant rear side panel, as I wrote in the other reply.

John,

Normally I would agree but I think the reasoning behind the directions
is that it is very easy to screw up and destroy the window, with the
proces ofr Porsche glass these days, it is less expenive potentially to
pull the panel and not the qindow.



John Durbin wrote:

Nice article, but he blows it on the rear side panel removal for the
944's... it takes literally seconds to pop the rear side windows out
and not much more to put them back in - a piece of strong and a little
soapy water or other lube makes that a breeze. Then you don't have to
worry about tearing the vinyl edge from the rear side panels where it
wraps the window or having it bunched up and funky from trying to
retuck it, not to mention with the side pane out of the way completely
you can do a civilized install on the speaker. Trying to work under
the panel when it's still attached is a pain in the ass and totally
unnecessary. Probably impossible to do it on a 20 year old vehicle w/o
damage, too.

JD

doug wrote:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faqst.html


Ray wrote:

I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers.
The front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any
decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6
I could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a
pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great
either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size
speaker in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want
rounds. I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944
owners claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the
front doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still
think
it's possible.

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2" from
being
installed.

Thanks.

Mark Zarella wrote in
:

yes, I agree that a million dollars ($1000K) would buy a great sound
system in any car.

my point wasn't so much that you had to spend a particular amount of
money, but rather if you go to a high end stereo store you can EASILY
spend $500,000 on a basic stereo (don't believe me, check prices of
Mark Levinson equipment, for example). the original poster said he
wanted the same quality as in his living room. This was my rather
sarcastic way of pointing out that it was a nonsensical request.

It's nonsensical because the best money could buy could not match what
can be achieved in the home, simply because of the acoustical
limitations of the car. But this isn't really relevant. My point was
that you can install a terrific sound system in a car for under $1000k
(sic), installation not included (since it's virtually impossible to
predict that aspect of the price).

I think when I bought my 944 new, I
put close to a grand into a basic stereo - about $700 for a kenwood
cassette deck, $100 each for front and rear speakers, and another
$100 for a small amplifier for the rear speakers that I put next to
the computer under the front floor boards. This gave me totally
satisfactory sound, but it was a very very very far cry from my home
system.

Things have changed. $1000 will buy you a thousand watts of power, a
good front set of component speakers, and a subwoofer with enclosure,
and a CD player of course (unless you wanted to keep the stock one).


A thousand watts of power? That's about 1500W of power consumption by the
amplifier alone - 125A. Are you going to watch your 944 fry, or fit
additional battery, alternator and some very heavy cable?

These mad stereo systems are fine for spotty geeks driving old Peugeots
with head light trims and big exhaust tailpipes, or for drivers of large
cars with lots of space and little residual value later on. But make do
with a good head unit (4x50W) and standard speaker installations on your
944 - If life isn't loud enough for you, wind down the window, and enjoy
the engine tone.

--
Regards,
Dave


http://welcome.to/daves.website
http://travel.to/formula.one

A thousand watts of power? That's about 1500W of power consumption by the
amplifier alone - 125A. Are you going to watch your 944 fry, or fit
additional battery, alternator and some very heavy cable?

Are 944 electrical systems that weak? A Cavalier or Grand Am can handle
it. Why can't a Porsche?

These mad stereo systems are fine for spotty geeks driving old Peugeots
with head light trims and big exhaust tailpipes, or for drivers of large
cars with lots of space and little residual value later on. But make do
with a good head unit (4x50W) and standard speaker installations on your
944 - If life isn't loud enough for you, wind down the window, and enjoy
the engine tone.

First of all, there isn't a head unit available that delivers anything
close to "4x50w", despite their exaggerated claims. Most of these units
bench at about 15 watts per channel. For most people who are interested
in accurate sound reproduction, this simply doesn't cut it. 1000 watts
total really isn't that much. I'd say it's about what you need to
accurately reproduce your musical selection while leaving enough headroom
to ensure that you're not driving your amplifiers into clipping.

Having used both techniques on numerous occasions, I can't imagine
breaking the window glass is the higher risk. Tearing 20 year old
fragile vinyl that was glued around the window opening by the factory
seems much more likely. Of course, if the window gasket has dried to the
point the window is difficult to remove, that would raise the risk
factor but at that point I'd take the opportunity to improved the
weather integrity and interior noise level and replace the gasket.

JD

doug wrote:

John,

Normally I would agree but I think the reasoning behind the directions
is that it is very easy to screw up and destroy the window, with the
proces ofr Porsche glass these days, it is less expenive potentially
to pull the panel and not the qindow.



John Durbin wrote:

Nice article, but he blows it on the rear side panel removal for the
944's... it takes literally seconds to pop the rear side windows out
and not much more to put them back in - a piece of strong and a
little soapy water or other lube makes that a breeze. Then you don't
have to worry about tearing the vinyl edge from the rear side panels
where it wraps the window or having it bunched up and funky from
trying to retuck it, not to mention with the side pane out of the way
completely you can do a civilized install on the speaker. Trying to
work under the panel when it's still attached is a pain in the ass
and totally unnecessary. Probably impossible to do it on a 20 year
old vehicle w/o damage, too.

JD

doug wrote:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faqst.html


Ray wrote:

I want to do a major upgrade to my '84 Porsche 944 front speakers.
The front
door speaker cutouts is a small 4x6. It's very hard to find any
decent 4x6
speakers that will fit in there. I must have tried almost every 4x6
I could
find, but not one of them pleased my ears. I am currently using a
pair of
Polk MOMO 4x6 plate speakers, and they don't sound all that great
either.
It's as if there's no bass response. The SQ could be compared to a
transistor radio. I think it's time to make some changes.

I was wondering if it's possible to somehow install a larger size
speaker in
the front doors of an early 944? I don't want ovals either, I want
rounds. I
would love to have 6-1/2" speakers in the front doors. Many 944
owners claim
that it would not be possible to install larger speakers in the
front doors
because of a shallow mounting depth due to the window rail. I still
think
it's possible.

What would a stereo shop have do to install a larger size, besides cut
metal? It's really the mounting depth that would prevent 6-1/2"
from being
installed.

Thanks.

aaah, guys, let's get real here - there is no amplifier you can fit in a
porsche that will deliver 1000 watts RMS continuous, nor is there a driver
who could live through the experience if there was one. There are claims by
of totally ridiculous power levels made for some car power amps, but these
are "peak instantaneous one time only, maximum distortion" power levels. I
have a power amp in my home system that delivers 350 watts per channel, two
channels. it weighs about 120 pounds.

Let's imagine you had this 1000 watt amplfier. the equation for power is
Power = current times voltage. Now, no amplfier is 100% efficient - the
most efficient get about 80%. The ones that sound good get less. Let's
assume 100% to make the math easy. We know the input voltage is 12 volts,
so current = power/voltage Now, let's plug in - 1000/12 = 83 amps. I
looked in my factory shop manual, the 944 has a 90 amp alternator.

If we assume a more realistic 50% efficiency, counting power supply loss (to
get 1000 watts into an 8 ohm speaker, you need to drive it with 90 volts
minimum (power = voltage squared/resistance, or voltage = sqr root(power *
resistance), and that assumes a pure resistive load, which a speaker is not
(it's got significant inductive components). Anyway, a kilowat amplifier
will need close to 200 amps to deliver it's KW, and it will make a lot of
heat.

Now, can you deliver a KW for a microsecond - sure, you can do that with a
flashlight battery and a capacitor - but that's not a real KW amplfier.

as to "why can't a porsche" - I guess the factory figured that you wouldn't
waste the car by using weight and horsepower to rattle your neighbor's ears.
in a small car like that, 15 watts per channel is enough for pretty good
sound, maybe another 30 watts for a subwoofer if you like super bass.


see http://www.aikenamps.com/OhmsLaw.htm for the derivation of these
equations



"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
A thousand watts of power? That's about 1500W of power consumption by
the
amplifier alone - 125A. Are you going to watch your 944 fry, or fit
additional battery, alternator and some very heavy cable?

Are 944 electrical systems that weak? A Cavalier or Grand Am can handle
it. Why can't a Porsche?

These mad stereo systems are fine for spotty geeks driving old Peugeots
with head light trims and big exhaust tailpipes, or for drivers of large
cars with lots of space and little residual value later on. But make do
with a good head unit (4x50W) and standard speaker installations on your
944 - If life isn't loud enough for you, wind down the window, and enjoy
the engine tone.

First of all, there isn't a head unit available that delivers anything
close to "4x50w", despite their exaggerated claims. Most of these units
bench at about 15 watts per channel. For most people who are interested
in accurate sound reproduction, this simply doesn't cut it. 1000 watts
total really isn't that much. I'd say it's about what you need to
accurately reproduce your musical selection while leaving enough headroom
to ensure that you're not driving your amplifiers into clipping.

aaah, guys, let's get real here - there is no amplifier you can fit in a
porsche that will deliver 1000 watts RMS continuous, nor is there a driver
who could live through the experience if there was one. There are claims
by
of totally ridiculous power levels made for some car power amps, but these
are "peak instantaneous one time only, maximum distortion" power levels.

This simply isn't true. The industry has developed tremendously in recent
years. And I wasn't referring to single amplifiers either. For instance, I
have three amplifiers installed whose output (I've benched two of them
myself) totals about 1000 watts. Now, the very nature of most forms of
music prevent us from listening at 1000 watts continuously (the crest
factor, or the ratio between peak and mean, is often on the order of 10 to
20 dB). But that doesn't mean that the amplifier isn't capable of
delivering 1000 watts. That is, of course, what we mean when we say "1000
watts of amplification".

I
have a power amp in my home system that delivers 350 watts per channel,
two
channels. it weighs about 120 pounds.

It probably isn't class D either. That's a somewhat newer technology found
in many car amplifiers today which, due to a vastly increased efficiency
(upwards of 80% in fact!), results in a smaller footprint, less heat
dissipated, and lower demands from the electrical system.


Let's imagine you had this 1000 watt amplfier. the equation for power is
Power = current times voltage. Now, no amplfier is 100% efficient - the
most efficient get about 80%. The ones that sound good get less. Let's
assume 100% to make the math easy. We know the input voltage is 12 volts,
so current = power/voltage Now, let's plug in - 1000/12 = 83 amps. I
looked in my factory shop manual, the 944 has a 90 amp alternator.

And this is entirely irrelevant due to the transient nature of typical
music. Factor in a crest factor of 15 dB into your calculations and tell me
what you get.

By the way, if you doubt that 1000 watt amplifiers exist today (which, by
the way, I didn't suggest in my original post), I'll be more than happy to
provide you with some examples and some references to independent bench
tests that verify it. In fact, one of the people who responded to this
thread works for a company that produces such a creature. Maybe he can
provide some insight.

I am perfectly aware of amps that claim 1000 watts. And, I'm aware of
switchmode topologies, the Logitech subwoofer/speaker system I use has such
amps, monolithic beasties which are used in push/pull configuration to get a
pretty good power output (200W)from a small device, specifically a TDA7293,
rated 100W each. But they will melt if run at max power for more than a few
seconds (I know this because they were melted when I got it at a swap meet -
they melted due to a noisy vol control that injected 60 hz hum at high
amplitude). And, I was careful to state, as you will note, "1000 watts RMS
continuous" - yes, that's not particularly realistic for "music", but I
object to these misleading specs, or at least misleading interpretation of
specs. 90V is pretty close to 110 - let's try an experiment - fire up one
of those 1000 watt amps, put a hair dryer on the output, and drive the input
with a 60 hz sine wave, and run the power level up to a KW. I'll bet you
the price of the amplifier that it won't keep it up for 15 minutes.

If you look at page 3 of the TDA7293 spec sheet, it claims 100W RMS power,
but it rates total harmonic distortion at 50 watts, 20 hz to 15Khz, at 0.1%.
The graphs provided on page 12 of that note show distortion versus output
power, and (not surprisingly for this type of circuit), distortion rises
almost vertically as power crosses about 3/4 of max, reaching 10 percent at
80 watts (and still climbing), with either 4 or 8 ohm loads. And, they
don't even rate distortion above 15 Khz. So, draw your own conclusions
about sound quality - they aren't bad, but they are certainly not audiophile
grade, which is were the original poster seemed to be going. As you no
doubt know, there is significant audible information in the music signal
well above 15 Khz - particularly phase information and transients that
significantly color the sound. All the stuff that you don't hear through
your FM radio because the stations impose a sharp 15 khz cutoff so music
doesn't interfere with the 19 khz multiplex pilot signal.

Oh, and to the "crest" factor - you are right for some music, but just for
grins, try playing Bach's tocata and fuge in D minor, and look at the
duration of the pedal note - that should be a 64 foot diapason, so you have
a long sustained low note that probably could use most of a KW if you let
it.

So, I stand my my original statement that claiming a KW from such amps is
ridiculous - and that it's unnecessary for automotive apps anyway.


"MZ" wrote in message
...
aaah, guys, let's get real here - there is no amplifier you can fit in a
porsche that will deliver 1000 watts RMS continuous, nor is there a
driver
who could live through the experience if there was one. There are
claims
by
of totally ridiculous power levels made for some car power amps, but
these
are "peak instantaneous one time only, maximum distortion" power levels.

This simply isn't true. The industry has developed tremendously in recent
years. And I wasn't referring to single amplifiers either. For instance,
I
have three amplifiers installed whose output (I've benched two of them
myself) totals about 1000 watts. Now, the very nature of most forms of
music prevent us from listening at 1000 watts continuously (the crest
factor, or the ratio between peak and mean, is often on the order of 10 to
20 dB). But that doesn't mean that the amplifier isn't capable of
delivering 1000 watts. That is, of course, what we mean when we say "1000
watts of amplification".

I
have a power amp in my home system that delivers 350 watts per channel,
two
channels. it weighs about 120 pounds.

It probably isn't class D either. That's a somewhat newer technology
found
in many car amplifiers today which, due to a vastly increased efficiency
(upwards of 80% in fact!), results in a smaller footprint, less heat
dissipated, and lower demands from the electrical system.


Let's imagine you had this 1000 watt amplfier. the equation for power
is
Power = current times voltage. Now, no amplfier is 100% efficient - the
most efficient get about 80%. The ones that sound good get less. Let's
assume 100% to make the math easy. We know the input voltage is 12
volts,
so current = power/voltage Now, let's plug in - 1000/12 = 83 amps.
I
looked in my factory shop manual, the 944 has a 90 amp alternator.

And this is entirely irrelevant due to the transient nature of typical
music. Factor in a crest factor of 15 dB into your calculations and tell
me
what you get.

By the way, if you doubt that 1000 watt amplifiers exist today (which, by
the way, I didn't suggest in my original post), I'll be more than happy to
provide you with some examples and some references to independent bench
tests that verify it. In fact, one of the people who responded to this
thread works for a company that produces such a creature. Maybe he can
provide some insight.

I am perfectly aware of amps that claim 1000 watts. And, I'm aware of
switchmode topologies, the Logitech subwoofer/speaker system I use has
such
amps, monolithic beasties which are used in push/pull configuration to get
a
pretty good power output (200W)from a small device, specifically a
TDA7293,
rated 100W each. But they will melt if run at max power for more than a
few
seconds (I know this because they were melted when I got it at a swap
meet -
they melted due to a noisy vol control that injected 60 hz hum at high
amplitude). And, I was careful to state, as you will note, "1000 watts
RMS
continuous" - yes, that's not particularly realistic for "music", but I
object to these misleading specs, or at least misleading interpretation of
specs. 90V is pretty close to 110 - let's try an experiment - fire up one
of those 1000 watt amps, put a hair dryer on the output, and drive the
input
with a 60 hz sine wave, and run the power level up to a KW. I'll bet you
the price of the amplifier that it won't keep it up for 15 minutes.

And what's the point of this experiment? It has absolutely no bearing on
real world operation. It does not, however, mean that a 1000 watt amplifier
is not a 1000 watt amplifier. It's a 1000 watt amplifier by virtue of its
ability to linearly reproduce a signal whose transients reach 1000 watts.


If you look at page 3 of the TDA7293 spec sheet, it claims 100W RMS power,
but it rates total harmonic distortion at 50 watts, 20 hz to 15Khz, at
0.1%.

The amplifiers I'm referring to state their power output at a THD less than
1%.

The graphs provided on page 12 of that note show distortion versus output
power, and (not surprisingly for this type of circuit), distortion rises
almost vertically as power crosses about 3/4 of max, reaching 10 percent
at
80 watts (and still climbing), with either 4 or 8 ohm loads.

This is most likely the point at which clipping is reached. That would make
their 100 watt claims untrue if this is indeed the case.

And, they
don't even rate distortion above 15 Khz.

Again, the amplifiers I'm referring to don't exhibit the same distortion
characteristics as the one you're discussing.

So, draw your own conclusions
about sound quality - they aren't bad, but they are certainly not
audiophile
grade, which is were the original poster seemed to be going.

Then I suggest that he doesn't use something utilizing a TDA7293. But then
again, I never did.

As you no
doubt know, there is significant audible information in the music signal
well above 15 Khz - particularly phase information and transients that
significantly color the sound. All the stuff that you don't hear through
your FM radio because the stations impose a sharp 15 khz cutoff so music
doesn't interfere with the 19 khz multiplex pilot signal.

It's not as significant as you've implied. Most of us can't hear above
about 17kHz anyway. And in a moving car, masking becomes a significant
issue in this frequency range as well.


Oh, and to the "crest" factor - you are right for some music, but just for
grins, try playing Bach's tocata and fuge in D minor, and look at the
duration of the pedal note - that should be a 64 foot diapason, so you
have
a long sustained low note that probably could use most of a KW if you let
it.

And many amplifiers will reproduce this with little trouble.


So, I stand my my original statement that claiming a KW from such amps is
ridiculous - and that it's unnecessary for automotive apps anyway.

But your argument defies convention. Whether or not you consider it 1000
watts is irrelevant. It's a 1000 watt amplifier by definition.

And you haven't yet stated why you feel it's unnecessary for automotive
applications. In fact, I'd argue that it's more necessary for auto
applications due to the high noise floor alone...

OK, getting back on the main topic, I've been doing a little research on
speaker sizes.

I am considering doing one of two things for my front door speakers:

1. I was thinking about buying a 4" MB Quart or Rainbow Audio component set
and having them custom installed in my doors. This option would probably
involve less work and would probably sound better than my existing 4x6
plates.

2. The other option I am considering is buying a 5.25" MB Quart or Rainbow
Audio component set and have them custom installed in my front doors. I'm
not exactly sure what will need to be done in order to install this size.
Hopefully it can be done neatly.


For the rest of my system, I plan to replace my current Boston Acoustics 6x9
coaxials, which are installed in the rear hatch over the "cubbies", with a
pair of MB Quart or Rainbow Audio 6.5" coaxials. The reason I am stepping
down to 6.5" speakers is because I have come to the conclusion that rounds
sound more pleasing to my ears and produce less distortion than oval
speakers.

I am planning on adding a single 10" subwoofer as well. I plan to have the
sub mounted in the spare tire well or in the hatch area itself. I may choose
either a JL, MB Quart, or a Rainbow Audio sub.

Last, I am considering purchasing a new single amp. I want to buy a
5-Channel amp that can power all four of my speakers and one sub. Kenwood
makes a decent 5-channel amp, as does JL and Alpine.


How does my plan sound for a 944 stereo system?

"Ray" wrote in
:


I am planning on adding a single 10" subwoofer as well. I plan to have
the sub mounted in the spare tire well or in the hatch area itself. I
may choose either a JL, MB Quart, or a Rainbow Audio sub.

Might I suggest Infitity? I had a Kappa Perfect 10 in my CRX that produced
awesome deep accurate bass. I gave it 300 watts, but they can apparently
take as much as 500. It's the best sub I've ever heard, but I'm not exactly
up to date and most other subs I've heard have been in ported boxes.





--
gavnook

If they didn't need us, they wouldn't bother lying to us.

I guess you're right... let's forget about the kW, and call it 2.5kW:

http://www.orioncaraudio.com/amps/Dmono.asp

or 1.5 kW:

http://www.precisionpower.com/amps/dcx1500.asp

And yes, these amps will drive your hairdryer, or blender, or whatever
other irrelevant non-audio device you want to drag into this discussion.
It'll drive it even in your electrically challenged 944. If you've ever
gone to a car audio show, like Spring Break Nationals, you may have seen
people serving smoothies using car amps to power the blender.

Your last conclusion needs modification: 1 kW may not be necessary for
YOUR applications and it may not be required for SQ ones either, but it
is necessary for some people's car audio applications, even if you don't
appreciate them.

FWIW, I have a purely SQ-oriented system in my IS300, with the original
Sony XES digital audio source equipment, with a 1 kW PPI class AB mono
block driving a single 12" sub, and another several hundred watts of
class AB PPI amplification to drive the front a/d/s/ components and rear
surround speakers. It is not possible to clip the amps or overdrive the
speakers in its current tuning, and the 1kW amp is a big part of that. I
have found that I can play (so far) any musical passage at or a little
above realistic live levels with no audible signs of distortion. (The
kind of sustained low frequency passage you refer to is exactly why I
chose to use amps this powerful. Since all of them are fully regulated,
they will deliver rated power as long as the car voltage is above 10V or
so. So far, my stock electrical system hasn't had any noticeable problem
with maintaining the battery charge or keeping the car and its other
accessories running.

JD

william_b_noble wrote:

I am perfectly aware of amps that claim 1000 watts. And, I'm aware of
switchmode topologies, the Logitech subwoofer/speaker system I use has such
amps, monolithic beasties which are used in push/pull configuration to get a
pretty good power output (200W)from a small device, specifically a TDA7293,
rated 100W each. But they will melt if run at max power for more than a few
seconds (I know this because they were melted when I got it at a swap meet -
they melted due to a noisy vol control that injected 60 hz hum at high
amplitude). And, I was careful to state, as you will note, "1000 watts RMS
continuous" - yes, that's not particularly realistic for "music", but I
object to these misleading specs, or at least misleading interpretation of
specs. 90V is pretty close to 110 - let's try an experiment - fire up one
of those 1000 watt amps, put a hair dryer on the output, and drive the input
with a 60 hz sine wave, and run the power level up to a KW. I'll bet you
the price of the amplifier that it won't keep it up for 15 minutes.

If you look at page 3 of the TDA7293 spec sheet, it claims 100W RMS power,
but it rates total harmonic distortion at 50 watts, 20 hz to 15Khz, at 0.1%.
The graphs provided on page 12 of that note show distortion versus output
power, and (not surprisingly for this type of circuit), distortion rises
almost vertically as power crosses about 3/4 of max, reaching 10 percent at
80 watts (and still climbing), with either 4 or 8 ohm loads. And, they
don't even rate distortion above 15 Khz. So, draw your own conclusions
about sound quality - they aren't bad, but they are certainly not audiophile
grade, which is were the original poster seemed to be going. As you no
doubt know, there is significant audible information in the music signal
well above 15 Khz - particularly phase information and transients that
significantly color the sound. All the stuff that you don't hear through
your FM radio because the stations impose a sharp 15 khz cutoff so music
doesn't interfere with the 19 khz multiplex pilot signal.

Oh, and to the "crest" factor - you are right for some music, but just for
grins, try playing Bach's tocata and fuge in D minor, and look at the
duration of the pedal note - that should be a 64 foot diapason, so you have
a long sustained low note that probably could use most of a KW if you let
it.

So, I stand my my original statement that claiming a KW from such amps is
ridiculous - and that it's unnecessary for automotive apps anyway.


"MZ" wrote in message
...


aaah, guys, let's get real here - there is no amplifier you can fit in a
porsche that will deliver 1000 watts RMS continuous, nor is there a


driver


who could live through the experience if there was one. There are


claims


by


of totally ridiculous power levels made for some car power amps, but


these


are "peak instantaneous one time only, maximum distortion" power levels.


This simply isn't true. The industry has developed tremendously in recent
years. And I wasn't referring to single amplifiers either. For instance,


I


have three amplifiers installed whose output (I've benched two of them
myself) totals about 1000 watts. Now, the very nature of most forms of
music prevent us from listening at 1000 watts continuously (the crest
factor, or the ratio between peak and mean, is often on the order of 10 to
20 dB). But that doesn't mean that the amplifier isn't capable of
delivering 1000 watts. That is, of course, what we mean when we say "1000
watts of amplification".



I
have a power amp in my home system that delivers 350 watts per channel,


two


channels. it weighs about 120 pounds.


It probably isn't class D either. That's a somewhat newer technology


found


in many car amplifiers today which, due to a vastly increased efficiency
(upwards of 80% in fact!), results in a smaller footprint, less heat
dissipated, and lower demands from the electrical system.



Let's imagine you had this 1000 watt amplfier. the equation for power


is


Power = current times voltage. Now, no amplfier is 100% efficient - the
most efficient get about 80%. The ones that sound good get less. Let's
assume 100% to make the math easy. We know the input voltage is 12


volts,


so current = power/voltage Now, let's plug in - 1000/12 = 83 amps.


I


looked in my factory shop manual, the 944 has a 90 amp alternator.


And this is entirely irrelevant due to the transient nature of typical
music. Factor in a crest factor of 15 dB into your calculations and tell


me


what you get.

By the way, if you doubt that 1000 watt amplifiers exist today (which, by
the way, I didn't suggest in my original post), I'll be more than happy to
provide you with some examples and some references to independent bench
tests that verify it. In fact, one of the people who responded to this
thread works for a company that produces such a creature. Maybe he can
provide some insight.

Should sound very pleasant.

JD

Ray wrote:

OK, getting back on the main topic, I've been doing a little research on
speaker sizes.

I am considering doing one of two things for my front door speakers:

1. I was thinking about buying a 4" MB Quart or Rainbow Audio component set
and having them custom installed in my doors. This option would probably
involve less work and would probably sound better than my existing 4x6
plates.

2. The other option I am considering is buying a 5.25" MB Quart or Rainbow
Audio component set and have them custom installed in my front doors. I'm
not exactly sure what will need to be done in order to install this size.
Hopefully it can be done neatly.


For the rest of my system, I plan to replace my current Boston Acoustics 6x9
coaxials, which are installed in the rear hatch over the "cubbies", with a
pair of MB Quart or Rainbow Audio 6.5" coaxials. The reason I am stepping
down to 6.5" speakers is because I have come to the conclusion that rounds
sound more pleasing to my ears and produce less distortion than oval
speakers.

I am planning on adding a single 10" subwoofer as well. I plan to have the
sub mounted in the spare tire well or in the hatch area itself. I may choose
either a JL, MB Quart, or a Rainbow Audio sub.

Last, I am considering purchasing a new single amp. I want to buy a
5-Channel amp that can power all four of my speakers and one sub. Kenwood
makes a decent 5-channel amp, as does JL and Alpine.


How does my plan sound for a 944 stereo system?