I just found out the shop that installed my system used 8 guage wiring for a
system totalling over 1200watts! All this time I have been unhappy with the
results, thinking that my stuff was ****, and turns out the amps are starved
for power!!! I'm so ****ed I could...well, let's just say I'm really, really
angry!

Here's a list of the goodies:

ALPINE
-CDA-7995
-Two 12" Type-R SWR-1221d housed in a custom built,home-made dual sealed
enclosure
-Front: 5.25" SPX-137A Components
-Rear: 6x9" SPR-694A
-Speaker Amp: MRV-F340 V12
-Subwoofer Amp: MRD-M500 V12 Mono

The subs should be putting out about 250-300w RMS, but instead they always
sound sort of muddy and weak.

If I had everything re-wired, would I notice a significant improvement? What
about the wires from the sub amp to subs? The ones they used are very thin.

What recourse do I have with the shop? I never said "4guage", I just assumed
that's what they would use. It's not like the equipment they were working
with was super weak junk. *shrug* This wasn't the first problem I had with
their work, btw. The install was shoddy looking and they didn't seem to care
what it sounded like.

Thanks for any advice.

Cindy

it wont hurt to have larger wire but your 8 guage might be enough...

I would have run bigger wire, but thats cause I like to be more than enough
and my customers usually dont mind paying for what I recomend...
..
But the way most amplifier power is REALLY overrated the so called
1200 watts may be only a few hundred watts, and an 8 gu might be big
enough... What sized fuse is at the battery?

Eddie Runner

"C. Olofsson" wrote:

I just found out the shop that installed my system used 8 guage wiring for a
system totalling over 1200watts! All this time I have been unhappy with the
results, thinking that my stuff was ****, and turns out the amps are starved
for power!!! I'm so ****ed I could...well, let's just say I'm really, really
angry!

Here's a list of the goodies:

ALPINE
-CDA-7995
-Two 12" Type-R SWR-1221d housed in a custom built,home-made dual sealed
enclosure
-Front: 5.25" SPX-137A Components
-Rear: 6x9" SPR-694A
-Speaker Amp: MRV-F340 V12
-Subwoofer Amp: MRD-M500 V12 Mono

The subs should be putting out about 250-300w RMS, but instead they always
sound sort of muddy and weak.

If I had everything re-wired, would I notice a significant improvement? What
about the wires from the sub amp to subs? The ones they used are very thin.

What recourse do I have with the shop? I never said "4guage", I just assumed
that's what they would use. It's not like the equipment they were working
with was super weak junk. *shrug* This wasn't the first problem I had with
their work, btw. The install was shoddy looking and they didn't seem to care
what it sounded like.

Thanks for any advice.

Cindy

It depends on the current draw of those amps. If the current draw does not
exceed the capacity of the cable, over that length of cable, you most likely
will not notice a difference upgrading to heavier gage. IMHO its always
better to "over-gage" than under gage (within reason)... For that system I
would have used 4 gage with a dist block and then the 8 gage for short runs
to the amps.

Same goes for the speaker wires. IMHO 14 gage should be adequate for all
your components. Im using 14 gage for my subs over a short length, about 3
feet separates my subs and their amp.

IMHO your installer should have laid out the entire system for you on paper
and explained why he chose which components. Its possible he already went
through things and has solid reasoning why he chose the 8 gage. He is an
installer and he (supposedly) knows the products he is installing. Maybe
those amps dont draw that much current after all....


Garrett


"C. Olofsson" wrote in message
news:ALkhb.11915$La.2677@fed1read02...
I just found out the shop that installed my system used 8 guage wiring for
a
system totalling over 1200watts! All this time I have been unhappy with
the
results, thinking that my stuff was ****, and turns out the amps are
starved
for power!!! I'm so ****ed I could...well, let's just say I'm really,
really
angry!

Here's a list of the goodies:

ALPINE
-CDA-7995
-Two 12" Type-R SWR-1221d housed in a custom built,home-made dual sealed
enclosure
-Front: 5.25" SPX-137A Components
-Rear: 6x9" SPR-694A
-Speaker Amp: MRV-F340 V12
-Subwoofer Amp: MRD-M500 V12 Mono

The subs should be putting out about 250-300w RMS, but instead they always
sound sort of muddy and weak.

If I had everything re-wired, would I notice a significant improvement?
What
about the wires from the sub amp to subs? The ones they used are very
thin.

What recourse do I have with the shop? I never said "4guage", I just
assumed
that's what they would use. It's not like the equipment they were working
with was super weak junk. *shrug* This wasn't the first problem I had with
their work, btw. The install was shoddy looking and they didn't seem to
care
what it sounded like.

Thanks for any advice.

Cindy

C. Olofsson wrote
I just found out the shop that installed my system used 8 guage wiring for
a
system totalling over 1200watts! All this time I have been unhappy with
the
results, thinking that my stuff was ****, and turns out the amps are
starved
for power!!! I'm so ****ed I could...well, let's just say I'm really,
really
angry!

Here's a list of the goodies:

ALPINE
-CDA-7995
-Two 12" Type-R SWR-1221d housed in a custom built,home-made dual sealed
enclosure
-Front: 5.25" SPX-137A Components
-Rear: 6x9" SPR-694A
-Speaker Amp: MRV-F340 V12
-Subwoofer Amp: MRD-M500 V12 Mono

MRV-F340 uses 30A fuse, rated power 55W x 4 @ 4ohm & 14.4V
MRD-M500 uses 30A fuse, rated power 500W x 1 @ 2ohm & 14.4V

Total rated output power is 720W (so input power is probably close to 800W)
@ 14.4V which = 55A current draw at full load. What size fuse did they
install near the battery? Did they install a fused distro block at the amp
rack? If so, what fuses did they use for each amp?

Using 8 gauge in this install is poor workmanship, should have been a
minimum of 6 gauge, 4 gauge when you take the distance from the battery to
the amp rack into account (probably ~15 feet), but I would suggest that your
amps are not starved for power. My reason for saying that is even when you
are pushing the system fairly hard (close to 2/3) you probably aren't
drawing more then 35 or 40A on transient surges which is fine for 8 gauge.
The problem with using small wire is that it has a higher resistance per
foot, so you will have a greater voltage drop then if you used larger wire
(all else being equal) ... if you can, measure the voltage you are getting
at the amps while they are running (and the car is running), if it drops
below 12.5V at any time the wiring is suspect (an analog meter works best in
this scenario)

The subs should be putting out about 250-300w RMS, but instead they always
sound sort of muddy and weak.

Technically the subs don't "put out" power, the amp does ... but you are
correct, running a pair of SWR-1221d from a MRD-M500, each sub should be
getting 250W at full throttle.

If I had everything re-wired, would I notice a significant improvement?

No. It is possible that you might be able to detect a difference, but I
think it would be minimal and only apparent at very high volume. The reason
to rewire would be aimed more towards having it done right because that's
why you paid a pro to do the install, and minimizing the voltage drop.

What about the wires from the sub amp to subs? The ones they used are very
thin.

Again, you won't notice a difference just because you run larger wire
(unless they used 22 gauge or something ridiculous like that). However, good
workmanship says use at least 14 gauge or more for anything over 100W, and
16 gauge minimum for everything else.

What recourse do I have with the shop?

Tough question, where are you located? What shop is it (sling some mud on
them here, no point in other people wasting good money on them)

I never said "4guage", I just assumed
that's what they would use. It's not like the equipment they were working
with was super weak junk. *shrug* This wasn't the first problem I had with
their work, btw. The install was shoddy looking and they didn't seem to
care
what it sounded like.

This rings a bell regarding something you said earlier in the post ... I am
thinking your dissatisfaction with the overall sound/results of the system
are because it is not set up properly ... that M500 alone has 10 different
settings to tweak, never mind the head unit and the F340. Would you be
comfortable investigating the setup of your system and letting us know what
they have done?

Total rated output power is 720W (so input power is probably close to
800W)
@ 14.4V which = 55A current draw at full load. What size fuse did they
install near the battery?

I am not sure, but I will check that out.

Did they install a fused distro block at the amp
rack? If so, what fuses did they use for each amp?

Yes, but I'm not sure. As far as I could see, they only used one fuse and
one distribution block. How many should be used??

Using 8 gauge in this install is poor workmanship, should have been a
minimum of 6 gauge, 4 gauge when you take the distance from the battery to
the amp rack into account (probably ~15 feet), but I would suggest that
your
amps are not starved for power. My reason for saying that is even when you
are pushing the system fairly hard (close to 2/3) you probably aren't
drawing more then 35 or 40A on transient surges which is fine for 8 gauge.

I sought a second opinion on the wiring, and that shop (of course) told me
the amps ARE starved for power and that I WOULD benefit from upgrading to
4g. It really does pay to educate yourself. :-|

The problem with using small wire is that it has a higher resistance per
foot, so you will have a greater voltage drop then if you used larger wire
(all else being equal) ... if you can, measure the voltage you are getting
at the amps while they are running (and the car is running), if it drops
below 12.5V at any time the wiring is suspect (an analog meter works best
in
this scenario)

I checked that while the car was not running, and it was somewhere between
12 and 13V. I'm going to try and check it out today.

The subs should be putting out about 250-300w RMS, but instead they
always
sound sort of muddy and weak.

Technically the subs don't "put out" power, the amp does ... but you are
correct, running a pair of SWR-1221d from a MRD-M500, each sub should be
getting 250W at full throttle.

Yeah, that's what I meant. :-]

If I had everything re-wired, would I notice a significant improvement?

No. It is possible that you might be able to detect a difference, but I
think it would be minimal and only apparent at very high volume. The
reason
to rewire would be aimed more towards having it done right because that's
why you paid a pro to do the install, and minimizing the voltage drop.

Yes, this is my aim. The shop I posed this question to is one I have a
little more faith in. They checked the ground wire and said it could have
been done differently, so that could also be why I'm hearing some distortion
and noise in my system...right? I think the whole damned thing just needs to
be re-done.

What about the wires from the sub amp to subs? The ones they used are
very
thin.

Again, you won't notice a difference just because you run larger wire
(unless they used 22 gauge or something ridiculous like that). However,
good
workmanship says use at least 14 gauge or more for anything over 100W, and
16 gauge minimum for everything else.

Believe me this shop didn't do a whole lot right. I will show a picture of
the "workmanship" they did to my car if I remember where I put it.

What recourse do I have with the shop?

Tough question, where are you located? What shop is it (sling some mud on
them here, no point in other people wasting good money on them)

A very small town called McKinleyville in Northern California. I doubt
anybody has heard of it. The shop is called Performance Audio...and they
stole/threw away the D/C power connector from my Kenwood that was just
sitting in the trunk. That thing cost $40 to replace, but after six months
and my nagging, they finally re-imbursed me!

I never said "4guage", I just assumed
that's what they would use. It's not like the equipment they were
working
with was super weak junk. *shrug* This wasn't the first problem I had
with
their work, btw. The install was shoddy looking and they didn't seem to
care
what it sounded like.

This rings a bell regarding something you said earlier in the post ... I
am
thinking your dissatisfaction with the overall sound/results of the system
are because it is not set up properly ... that M500 alone has 10 different
settings to tweak,

We have tweaked and it does sound LOUDER, certainly, but not any better.
I've turned the subsonic filter off and changed just about every setting,
but overall, I've never been really happy. Okay, I'm hearing alot of
interference in the system and my car (1996 Mustang GT) isn't the ideal
setting for a system with its multitude of rattles. Maybe it IS the
equipment? Perhaps I was expecting too much from this stuff? LOL! At any
rate, I think I will just bite the bullet and have it re-done.

never mind the head unit and the F340. Would you be
comfortable investigating the setup of your system and letting us know
what
they have done?

Absolutely. I will definitely keep posted. Thanks for all your help!!

Cindy

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
it wont hurt to have larger wire but your 8 guage might be enough...

I would have run bigger wire, but thats cause I like to be more than
enough
and my customers usually dont mind paying for what I recomend...

This is what concerns me; they never recommended 4g and I, like an idiot,
assumed that's what they would use.
.
But the way most amplifier power is REALLY overrated the so called
1200 watts may be only a few hundred watts, and an 8 gu might be big
enough... What sized fuse is at the battery?

I will have a look. Thanks.

Cindy

"sanitarium" wrote in message
news:1065742289.736727@sj-nntpcache-5...
It depends on the current draw of those amps. If the current draw does
not
exceed the capacity of the cable, over that length of cable, you most
likely
will not notice a difference upgrading to heavier gage. IMHO its always
better to "over-gage" than under gage (within reason)... For that system
I
would have used 4 gage with a dist block and then the 8 gage for short
runs
to the amps.

That's what I thought.

Same goes for the speaker wires. IMHO 14 gage should be adequate for all
your components. Im using 14 gage for my subs over a short length, about
3
feet separates my subs and their amp.

I think mine's a little longer.

IMHO your installer should have laid out the entire system for you on
paper
and explained why he chose which components. Its possible he already went
through things and has solid reasoning why he chose the 8 gage. He is an
installer and he (supposedly) knows the products he is installing. Maybe
those amps dont draw that much current after all....

I got the impression they didn't care about me as a customer at all. Told me
my car would be done by 5:00 after dropping it off at 10:00...I WALKED there
to pick it up and find out they weren't done so I had to wait there for
another two and a half hours! One of the installers was a total DORK (he
threw the power cord from my Kenwood away or stole it not sure..?) and
obviously didn't know what he was doing (said my car was a pain in the ass
to work on).

Thanks!

Cindy

McKinleyville !!!?? Where is that? Im 33 born/raised in San Jose and have
never heard of the place. Its no secret here that I have been less than
impressed with Any of the audio shops in my area. too much $$$ for too
little work/workmanship. I have yet to find a shop that didn't treat me
like an idiot. thats why Im an ebay junkie. Just scored a powerbase XS15D
for $85.

I would suggest rewiring it with 4 gage yourself, but if youre new to car
audio and unfamiliar with 12V electrical systems its better to enlist an
experienced shop. It can be hazardous if youre not familiar with it all.

Garrett


"C. Olofsson" wrote in message
news:ALkhb.11915$La.2677@fed1read02...
I just found out the shop that installed my system used 8 guage wiring for
a
system totalling over 1200watts! All this time I have been unhappy with
the
results, thinking that my stuff was ****, and turns out the amps are
starved
for power!!! I'm so ****ed I could...well, let's just say I'm really,
really
angry!

Here's a list of the goodies:

ALPINE
-CDA-7995
-Two 12" Type-R SWR-1221d housed in a custom built,home-made dual sealed
enclosure
-Front: 5.25" SPX-137A Components
-Rear: 6x9" SPR-694A
-Speaker Amp: MRV-F340 V12
-Subwoofer Amp: MRD-M500 V12 Mono

The subs should be putting out about 250-300w RMS, but instead they always
sound sort of muddy and weak.

If I had everything re-wired, would I notice a significant improvement?
What
about the wires from the sub amp to subs? The ones they used are very
thin.

What recourse do I have with the shop? I never said "4guage", I just
assumed
that's what they would use. It's not like the equipment they were working
with was super weak junk. *shrug* This wasn't the first problem I had with
their work, btw. The install was shoddy looking and they didn't seem to
care
what it sounded like.

Thanks for any advice.

Cindy

MRV-F340 uses 30A fuse, rated power 55W x 4 @ 4ohm & 14.4V
MRD-M500 uses 30A fuse, rated power 500W x 1 @ 2ohm & 14.4V

Okay, I've just had a look. They put an 80A fuse under the hood. Isn't that
too much? I also was incorrect, they used 4g from the battery to distroblock
and 8g from the amps to distroblock. They also used 16g wire from the sub
amp to subs.

Cindy

whats wrong with that?

Eddie

"C. Olofsson" wrote:


MRV-F340 uses 30A fuse, rated power 55W x 4 @ 4ohm & 14.4V
MRD-M500 uses 30A fuse, rated power 500W x 1 @ 2ohm & 14.4V

Okay, I've just had a look. They put an 80A fuse under the hood. Isn't that
too much? I also was incorrect, they used 4g from the battery to distroblock
and 8g from the amps to distroblock. They also used 16g wire from the sub
amp to subs.

Cindy

C. Olofsson wrote
Okay, I've just had a look. They put an 80A fuse under the hood. Isn't
that
too much?

An 80A fuse is fine for 4 gauge wire.

I also was incorrect, they used 4g from the battery to distroblock
and 8g from the amps to distroblock. They also used 16g wire from the sub
amp to subs.

That is all good. The wiring sizes they used are fine.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

..

C. Olofsson wrote
Yes, but I'm not sure. As far as I could see, they only used one fuse and
one distribution block. How many should be used??

There should be one fuse near the battery. You should have a distro block
with two fuses in it at the amp rack (there could be room for more fuses,
but they won't be used yet) One of the fuses in the distro block should be
30A (for the F340) and the other could be anywhere from 30A to 50A (for the
M500)

I sought a second opinion on the wiring, and that shop (of course) told me
the amps ARE starved for power and that I WOULD benefit from upgrading to
4g. It really does pay to educate yourself. :-|

Well, if you ask 13 people the same question, you usually get 13 different
answers :-)
BTW, I am an electrician ... doesn't mean I am right, but I know what a wire
can handle.

I checked that while the car was not running, and it was somewhere between
12 and 13V. I'm going to try and check it out today.

If you are getting more then 12V at the amp rack with the car off,
everything is fine ( wire size)

Yes, this is my aim. The shop I posed this question to is one I have a
little more faith in. They checked the ground wire and said it could have
been done differently, so that could also be why I'm hearing some
distortion
and noise in my system...right? I think the whole damned thing just needs
to
be re-done.

You probably don't have to re-do the whole thing ... many people have noise
issues that can be easily resolved.
Distortion is most likely cause by not having gains and EQ settings (ie.
Loudness control) configured properly.

We have tweaked and it does sound LOUDER, certainly, but not any better.
I've turned the subsonic filter off and changed just about every setting,
but overall, I've never been really happy. Okay, I'm hearing alot of
interference in the system and my car (1996 Mustang GT) isn't the ideal
setting for a system with its multitude of rattles. Maybe it IS the
equipment? Perhaps I was expecting too much from this stuff? LOL! At any
rate, I think I will just bite the bullet and have it re-done.

I would think that the equipment you have should be more then adequate if it
is set up properly ... rewiring probably won't fix the problems you are
having. Perhaps take it to the shop that you are more confident in and tell
them to set up the system and fix the noise/distortion problems. Make sure
they explain in detail what they are doing and what they are
replacing/re-doing (if need be)

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

There should be one fuse near the battery. You should have a distro block
with two fuses in it at the amp rack


Not true. If her amps have fuses in them it is perfectly acceptable to have
a disto only block. All the extra fuse would do is drop more Voltage and
make the amps draw more current to compensate. The fuse in the amp will
protect the amp and the fuse near the battery will protect the car.

Paul Vina

Paul Vina wrote
Not true. If her amps have fuses in them it is perfectly acceptable to
have
a disto only block. All the extra fuse would do is drop more Voltage and
make the amps draw more current to compensate. The fuse in the amp will
protect the amp and the fuse near the battery will protect the car.

You know, I never thought about that until reading your post ... ;-)

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

Not true. If her amps have fuses in them it is perfectly acceptable to
have
a disto only block. All the extra fuse would do is drop more Voltage and
make the amps draw more current to compensate. The fuse in the amp will
protect the amp and the fuse near the battery will protect the car.

You know, I never thought about that until reading your post ... ;-)


You know I think the same way alot of the times. But, I do alot of theatrical
AC wiring and when there is a change in wire size there is a breaker. I forget
it is different in the car world.

Spreadin' the gospel!!!


Paul Vina



"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...
Not true. If her amps have fuses in them it is perfectly acceptable to
have
a disto only block. All the extra fuse would do is drop more Voltage
and
make the amps draw more current to compensate. The fuse in the amp
will
protect the amp and the fuse near the battery will protect the car.

You know, I never thought about that until reading your post ... ;-)


You know I think the same way alot of the times. But, I do alot of
theatrical
AC wiring and when there is a change in wire size there is a breaker. I
forget
it is different in the car world.

Thanks, Dan. I just panicked when I saw the 8g running from the amps,
because during all my research before purchasing the system I chose,
everybody told me to run 4g all through the car. So that is what I wanted.
I did go out today, nevertheless, and buy some more 4g and 12g wire and
another distroblock. I am considering upgrading at some point, anyway.

Cindy

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
...
C. Olofsson wrote
Okay, I've just had a look. They put an 80A fuse under the hood. Isn't
that
too much?

An 80A fuse is fine for 4 gauge wire.

I also was incorrect, they used 4g from the battery to distroblock
and 8g from the amps to distroblock. They also used 16g wire from the
sub
amp to subs.

That is all good. The wiring sizes they used are fine.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

.

I did go out today, nevertheless, and buy some more 4g and 12g wire and
another distroblock. I am considering upgrading at some point, anyway.


Why? Unless one of your amps is drawing more than 50 amps then why bother??
Most times 16 gauge is fine for the short run from the Amp to the speaker. You
would just be wasting time and money by doing that, from a technical standpoint
anyway. So unless your going to do it for purely cosmetic reasons then dont
bother and just enjoy.

You might find that the terminals on your amps aren't large enough to accept
4g wire.

"C. Olofsson" wrote in message
news:th6ib.26574$La.20848@fed1read02...
Thanks, Dan. I just panicked when I saw the 8g running from the amps,
because during all my research before purchasing the system I chose,
everybody told me to run 4g all through the car. So that is what I
wanted.
I did go out today, nevertheless, and buy some more 4g and 12g wire and
another distroblock. I am considering upgrading at some point, anyway.

Cindy

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
...
C. Olofsson wrote
Okay, I've just had a look. They put an 80A fuse under the hood. Isn't
that
too much?

An 80A fuse is fine for 4 gauge wire.

I also was incorrect, they used 4g from the battery to distroblock
and 8g from the amps to distroblock. They also used 16g wire from the
sub
amp to subs.

That is all good. The wiring sizes they used are fine.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

.

KaeZoo wrote
You might find that the terminals on your amps aren't large enough to
accept
4g wire.

Acutally, in her case the terminal on the M500 will accept 4g, and the F340
doesn't actually have a terminal, it has a wiring harness.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

C. Olofsson wrote
Thanks, Dan. I just panicked when I saw the 8g running from the amps,
because during all my research before purchasing the system I chose,
everybody told me to run 4g all through the car. So that is what I
wanted.
I did go out today, nevertheless, and buy some more 4g and 12g wire and
another distroblock. I am considering upgrading at some point, anyway.

No problem, what are you plans for the distro block you just bought? I would
imagine the original install does have a distro block ...

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

Paul Vina wrote
Not true. If her amps have fuses in them it is perfectly acceptable to
have
a disto only block. All the extra fuse would do is drop more Voltage and
make the amps draw more current to compensate. The fuse in the amp will
protect the amp and the fuse near the battery will protect the car.

I just thought of something else ... Technically, when you reduce the wire
size going from the distro to the amp, you need to install a smaller fuse to
protect the smaller wire, otherwise you are using a 80A fuse to protect the
short run of 8g wire from the distro to the amp. The fuses in the amps only
protect the amps themselves, not the wiring feeding them, yes/no?

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

You aren't protecting the wire, you're protecting the car. If you use a
smaller fuse all you do is allow less current to flow. Why would you need a
smaller fuse for a smaller wire?



Paul Vina


"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
.. .
Paul Vina wrote
Not true. If her amps have fuses in them it is perfectly acceptable to
have
a disto only block. All the extra fuse would do is drop more Voltage
and
make the amps draw more current to compensate. The fuse in the amp will
protect the amp and the fuse near the battery will protect the car.

I just thought of something else ... Technically, when you reduce the wire
size going from the distro to the amp, you need to install a smaller fuse
to
protect the smaller wire, otherwise you are using a 80A fuse to protect
the
short run of 8g wire from the distro to the amp. The fuses in the amps
only
protect the amps themselves, not the wiring feeding them, yes/no?

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

I just thought of something else ... Technically, when you reduce the wire
size going from the distro to the amp, you need to install a smaller fuse to
protect the smaller wire, otherwise you are using a 80A fuse to protect the
short run of 8g wire from the distro to the amp. The fuses in the amps only
protect the amps themselves, not the wiring feeding them, yes/no?


In AC wiring then you would need to fuse but not in 12V land.
You are essentially protecting against a short to ground, which the big fuse
will blow just as quickly as a smaller fuse.
The amp has its own fuses which will blow if you try and pull more current than
is needed.
BUT I see your point, and do agree somewhat but it is harder to screw up power
in car land than in AC, wouldnt you agree?

Paul Vina wrote
You aren't protecting the wire, you're protecting the car. If you use a
smaller fuse all you do is allow less current to flow. Why would you need
a
smaller fuse for a smaller wire?

Protecting the car? The purpose of a fuse (or circuit breaker, or fusible
link) is to protect the wire ... if too much current flows through a given
size of wire, a hazard is created because the wire cannot safely handle the
current (too much heat generated, insulation decays, etc ...) The idea of
the fuse is to cap the current flow through the wire to protect it in the
event whatever is connected to the wire tries to draw excessive current.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

Nope. The fuse is there to protect the car in the event the wire is damaged
and shorts to ground. Without the fuse the battery will continue to deliver
power. In a car if a wire is much too small for a given application then
generally it will drop so much Voltage that there wouldn't be enough to
power the unit up.


Paul Vina



"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
.. .
Paul Vina wrote
You aren't protecting the wire, you're protecting the car. If you use a
smaller fuse all you do is allow less current to flow. Why would you
need
a
smaller fuse for a smaller wire?

Protecting the car? The purpose of a fuse (or circuit breaker, or fusible
link) is to protect the wire ... if too much current flows through a given
size of wire, a hazard is created because the wire cannot safely handle
the
current (too much heat generated, insulation decays, etc ...) The idea of
the fuse is to cap the current flow through the wire to protect it in the
event whatever is connected to the wire tries to draw excessive current.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

Paul Vina wrote
Nope. The fuse is there to protect the car in the event the wire is
damaged
and shorts to ground. Without the fuse the battery will continue to
deliver
power. In a car if a wire is much too small for a given application then
generally it will drop so much Voltage that there wouldn't be enough to
power the unit up.

Good explanation ... the day I stop learning put me in a pine box.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

Soundfreak03 wrote
In AC wiring then you would need to fuse but not in 12V land.
You are essentially protecting against a short to ground, which the big
fuse
will blow just as quickly as a smaller fuse.
The amp has its own fuses which will blow if you try and pull more current
than
is needed.
BUT I see your point, and do agree somewhat but it is harder to screw up
power
in car land than in AC, wouldnt you agree?

Yup, I am in left field on this train of thought ...

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
.. .
C. Olofsson wrote
Thanks, Dan. I just panicked when I saw the 8g running from the amps,
because during all my research before purchasing the system I chose,
everybody told me to run 4g all through the car. So that is what I
wanted.
I did go out today, nevertheless, and buy some more 4g and 12g wire and
another distroblock. I am considering upgrading at some point, anyway.

No problem, what are you plans for the distro block you just bought? I
would
imagine the original install does have a distro block ...

Yes, it did but that distroblock didn't accept 4g. My husband installed all
the new wiring. The biggest difference is in the front speakers, and I added
polyfill to the sub box, so there is more thump, just not sure if it's the
fill or 4g?

Cindy

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
.. .
KaeZoo wrote
You might find that the terminals on your amps aren't large enough to
accept
4g wire.

Acutally, in her case the terminal on the M500 will accept 4g, and the
F340
doesn't actually have a terminal, it has a wiring harness.

Um, actually the terminal on the M500 was not big enough to accept the 4g. I
think my hubby had to modify the connector thingy for it to work. I'll
double check that.

Cindy

It was the polyfill, not the wiring. You weren't pulling enough current
over the short run of 8 ga. from the block to the amp to even make a
measurable difference, let alone an audible one.


Paul Vina



"C. Olofsson" wrote in message
news:Jzxkb.52843$La.50387@fed1read02...

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
.. .
C. Olofsson wrote
Thanks, Dan. I just panicked when I saw the 8g running from the amps,
because during all my research before purchasing the system I chose,
everybody told me to run 4g all through the car. So that is what I
wanted.
I did go out today, nevertheless, and buy some more 4g and 12g wire
and
another distroblock. I am considering upgrading at some point, anyway.

No problem, what are you plans for the distro block you just bought? I
would
imagine the original install does have a distro block ...

Yes, it did but that distroblock didn't accept 4g. My husband installed
all
the new wiring. The biggest difference is in the front speakers, and I
added
polyfill to the sub box, so there is more thump, just not sure if it's the
fill or 4g?

Cindy

C. Olofsson wrote
Yes, it did but that distroblock didn't accept 4g. My husband installed
all
the new wiring. The biggest difference is in the front speakers, and I
added
polyfill to the sub box, so there is more thump, just not sure if it's the
fill or 4g?

That would be the fill, gives the sub the impression of being in a larger
enclosure, which will improve low end extension.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

C. Olofsson wrote
Um, actually the terminal on the M500 was not big enough to accept the 4g.
I
think my hubby had to modify the connector thingy for it to work. I'll
double check that.

? That is strange ... right in the manual it states that you can use 8g - 4g
for this amp. I have included the part in the manual that talks about it
below ...

Cautions on wire lead connections (MRD-M500 only) When using third-party
wire cables (power supply cord), use the supplied hex screws and the hex
wrench to simplify the connection. Refer to the description below for the
proper procedure. If you are in doubt about how to make this connection,
consult your dealer.

1. Check the wire size.

Notes:
.. Wire Size (Battery Lead, Ground Lead) Recommended wire size for this unit
is AWG4 - AWG8.
.. If the wire gauge used is unknown, ask your dealer.

2. Remove the insulation from the ends of the wire leads by about 7 - 10mm
(9/32" - 3/8"). (Fig. 8)

Notes:
.. If length of the exposed wire is too short, a poor connection may occur
causing operation failure or sound interruption.
.. On the other hand, if the length is too long, an electrical short-circuit
may occur.

3. Remove the screw attached to the terminal. Insert the exposed wire end
into the lead terminal. Tighten the d screw with the d driver, to fix the
lead. (Fig. 9)
Before making this connection, use insulated shrink tubing to cover any
exposed wire extending beyond the terminal.

Notes:
.. Use only the d screws included.
.. For safety reasons, connect the battery leads last.
.. To prevent disconnection of the leads or dropping of the unit, do not use
the cabling to carry the unit.

Anyways, glad you got things sorted out and such, are you satisfied with the
system now? Let us know.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks