"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Go to the slide Support for Suicide Bombing Declines. 57% of Jordanians
support suicide bombing (Isn't that a solid majority in that country
Dave? ), 35% of Lebanonese, 25% of Pakistanis, Turkey... our Nato allie was
still 14%, Morocco numbers showed a huge swing but nowhere is it less than
10%. And remember... this is SUICIDE bombing....numbers would certainly
be worse for all acts of terrorism.

Sorry that a dose of reality dampens your humor.

ScottW

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:


dave weil wrote:
On 3 Feb 2006 13:01:58 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:


dave weil wrote:
On 3 Feb 2006 11:03:43 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

Yes, I'm against that sort of thing as well. However, even YOU
must
admit that the preponderance of "boycott" as social commentary is
coming from the Right.

Is Islam on the left or the right?

Definitely on the Right.

Not my right. Why does it seem that the left is opposed to Western
civilization and cultural influence on Islamic nations and supportive
of Islamic resistance in the culture war?

Because you see everything through your own prism, maybe?

You didn't answer the question. Do you deny the left is supportive
of Islam in it's culture war? (which is somewhat suicidal for many
segments of the left)

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.

See response to Jenn.


Islamic extremists are just a different form of Right-wing evangelical
fundamentalists. They have no tolerance for religious views that run
counter to their beliefs and they replace the Bible with the Koran as
a way of enforcing what they think people should believe and how they
should act and what they should read and see in the media.

Sounds a lot like the anti-religous left and ACLU.

You're joking, of course. I really don't know how to respond to this.
Can you expand on how an "anti-religious Left" could possibly believe
that one religion should be the basis of a society

Not one religion... no religion.

and also the basis
of war?

Culture war in our own country...no religion vs religion. Maybe if you
paid attention you'd see the Christian Judeo alliance under attack from the
left.


BTW, just so you know, most of the Left isn't against religion, but
the use of religion to oppress and it's also against explicit
religious endorsement by the government.

Seems to be quite opposed to public religious expression in many forms.


(BTW, don't
you think that a news organization has the same rights as any other
business when it comes to protecting their interests)? If WalMart
doesn't want to offend a portion of their base by not offer a certain
medication, shouldn't a news organization have the discretion not to
air potentially offensive and inflammatory material?

and **** off the rest of us that wants to see what is so
"inflammatory".

You can certainly see those cartoons if you want to.

I have... I also think its an obligation of the media to show the public
exactly how sensitive to offense and hypocritical the Muslim community is.

Sure, they have that right. Just like I have a right
to turn the channel, cancel my subscription, and call for others to do
so.

Of course you do. Pretty soon, you'll be left with only a small slice
of "the media", and this is something that you already suffer from.
You are beholden on an increasingly narrow view of the world and it's
apparent from your postings.

You don't like my views so you spin into personal attacks... thats worldly
of you.


Can't you see that Islamic extremists are fighting the same sort of
"culture war" that President Bush and Co. are fighting?

The left isn't fighting a bit of culture war themselves?

Because the war is being brought to them by religious fundamentalists.

Really... thats why they attack icons that have been around for years like
the City of LA symbol or the local veterans memorial. Hard to see how
these new fronts in the culture war were brought about by the right.


Frankly...I don' t consider Bush and Co. fighting a culture war...
they're
fighting an anti violence, anti terrorism war. They have no concern
about Islamic culture as long as it doesn't hurt people.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/121/51.0.html

President George W. Bush, in a rare on-the-record session with
religion editors and writers on Wednesday, said his job as president
is to "change cultures."

snip

"At home, the job of a president is to help cultures change. The
culture needs to be changed. I call it, so people can understand what
I'm talking about, changing the culture from one that says, "If it
feels good, do it, and if you've got a problem, blame somebody else,"
to a culture in which each of us understands we're responsible for the
decisions we make in life. I call it the responsibility era. . I said
that when I was governor of Texas. As a matter of fact, I've been
saying that ever since I got into politics. This is one of the reasons
I got into politics in the first place. Governments cannot change
culture alone. I want you to know I understand that. But I can be a
voice of cultural change.

Part of the responsibility era is the responsibility that comes with
promoting-taking care of your bodies to the point where we can promote
a culture of life. Father Richard [Neuhaus] helped me craft what is
still the integral part of my position on abortion, which is: Every
child welcomed to life and protected by law. That is the goal of this
administration.

Part of government's role is to foster responsibility and hope by
standing with those who have heard a call to love a neighbor, which is
the second point of the faith-based initiative that I think is one of
the most important domestic initiatives that I have pushed, if not the
most. It recognizes the rightful relationship between hearts and souls
and government. Again, my job is to try to distill things down so that
average people can understand it. Here's the way I put it, "Government
can hand out money, but it cannot put love in people's hearts or a
sense of purpose in people's lives."

Etc., etc...

However, you misunderstood my "cultural war" reference. I was
comparing the idea that US religious fundamentalists have many of the
same goals of radical Islam fundamentalists. They both want to
restrict literature, media, and many other aspects of modern life. You
are fond of making fun of Tennessee and I often do the same thing,
when evangelicals get books like "To Kill a Mockingbird" out of
libraries.

Sure... there are nut jobs all over the world... but the extremists you
talk of aren't really representative of the mainstream right any more than
the Code Pinkers are mainstream left.

That was the aspect of the "culture war" that I was talking about. I
wasn't talking about a "culture war" against Islam. I was comparing
the current climate in the US with Islamic radicals. They both fall
squarely on the Right.

Most conservatives are far more tolerant than you give them credit for.



They are just
using more violent means and they are far more strict in what they
"allow", which is tragic. But they are certainly NOT "left of center".

You appear to be espousing a tolerant left vs an intolerant right...

You would be wrong. I simply stated a fairly obvious truth in response
to your question about where the majority of Islam falls. Even the
more moderate Islamics are right of center.

but I find the left anything but tolerant and just as or more prone to
violence to impose their views as anyone. Take PITA and Earth
Liberation Front for examples.

That's because you see the Left pretty much as these two organizations
and nothing more. Certainly the Left has always had their violent
groups (SNCC, The Black Panthers, Bader-Meinhoff, The Red Brigade,
etc.). But that would be like me saying that the Right is violent and
intolerant because of the KKK, Timothy McVeigh, Pinochet, etc.

Let's not forget that the Left has been most successful and effective
when it's followed people like Dr. Martin Luther King.

You know this revisionist history... the left likes to take credit for the
civil rights movement but in reality it transcended both sides with both
opposition and support coming from both sides.
The left likes to think that any change fostered by public demonstrations
and civil disobedience was sponsered by the left... but Martin Luther King
was in reality.. a religious conservative.

ScottW

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:49:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Go to the slide Support for Suicide Bombing Declines. 57% of Jordanians
support suicide bombing (Isn't that a solid majority in that country
Dave? ), 35% of Lebanonese, 25% of Pakistanis, Turkey... our Nato allie was
still 14%, Morocco numbers showed a huge swing but nowhere is it less than
10%. And remember... this is SUICIDE bombing....numbers would certainly
be worse for all acts of terrorism.

Sorry that a dose of reality dampens your humor.

Yeah, you're sorry all right. Only a sorry person would convert "use
of terrorism and fascism" into "support for one aspect of terrorism"
and then use 6 countries to define the issue (even though one of them,
one that you didn't even mention specifically, is probably the largest
Muslim country).

How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Man, are you one bitter person. I really feel sorry for you...even
President Bush says that the vast majority of Islamics are peaceful
people. In fact, it's quite possible that I got my phrase "tiny
minority" from him.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:49:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Oh, by the way, isn't the Washington Post one of those news
organizations that you detest as liars and left-wing malaprops?

chuckle

Glad to see that you'll still use them as a reference, even as you
"cancel your subscription" (metaphorically speaking, of course).

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:49:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between
the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Go to the slide Support for Suicide Bombing Declines. 57% of Jordanians
support suicide bombing (Isn't that a solid majority in that country
Dave? ), 35% of Lebanonese, 25% of Pakistanis, Turkey... our Nato allie
was
still 14%, Morocco numbers showed a huge swing but nowhere is it less
than
10%. And remember... this is SUICIDE bombing....numbers would certainly
be worse for all acts of terrorism.

Sorry that a dose of reality dampens your humor.

Yeah, you're sorry all right. Only a sorry person would convert "use
of terrorism and fascism" into "support for one aspect of terrorism"

This one aspect is the most heinous that I can think of. If this aspect
has substantial support... what about less heinous acts?

and then use 6 countries to define the issue (even though one of them,
one that you didn't even mention specifically, is probably the largest
Muslim country).

Find a more comprehensive survey.... you're bitching about Pew Research
Center... find a better survey with more comprehensive data from an equally
renowned and respected organization.


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million. Find a more comprehensive survey instead of bitching
that the facts don't support your blind perceptions.


Man, are you one bitter person. I really feel sorry for you...even
President Bush says that the vast majority of Islamics are peaceful
people. In fact, it's quite possible that I got my phrase "tiny
minority" from him.

Vast majority are... and it is a tiny minority that commits the acts... but
unfortunately they have the support of far far more than that... You can't
claim they're hijacking anything with these levels of popular support.
Bush may be full of political BS but I find it quite hypocritical that you
would turn to him for your facts in this matter.

ScottW

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

The ACLU is a riot.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

Excuse me; I thought that you were saying that the left (the American
political left) admires those of Islam who "use terrorism and fascism
to further their skewed reading of their religion."

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:49:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Oh, by the way, isn't the Washington Post one of those news
organizations that you detest as liars and left-wing malaprops?

OMFG.... You are really desperately spinning now. Its not a Post survey
you incredible buffoon.. they just linked the report... it was Pew Research
who did the work.

Here.. have an "unbiased" link if it matters so much to you......
http://people-press.org/

ScottW

"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between
the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know
the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

Excuse me; I thought that you were saying that the left (the American
political left) admires those of Islam who "use terrorism and fascism
to further their skewed reading of their religion."

If you want to express my views try quoting me rather than Dave.

My objection with Daves statement (which you apparently concurred with) was
his "tiny minority" characterization. The data shows support for
terrorism in the Islamic world is not limited in any way to a tiny minority.

ScottW

In article YQ7Ff.85206$0G.61147@dukeread10,
"ScottW" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between
the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know
the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

Excuse me; I thought that you were saying that the left (the American
political left) admires those of Islam who "use terrorism and fascism
to further their skewed reading of their religion."

If you want to express my views try quoting me rather than Dave.

That's why I said, "Excuse me", ya know. IMO, a quoting error.

My objection with Daves statement (which you apparently concurred with) was
his "tiny minority" characterization. The data shows support for
terrorism in the Islamic world is not limited in any way to a tiny minority.

ScottW

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:01:17 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:49:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Oh, by the way, isn't the Washington Post one of those news
organizations that you detest as liars and left-wing malaprops?

OMFG.... You are really desperately spinning now. Its not a Post survey
you incredible buffoon.. they just linked the report... it was Pew Research
who did the work.

Jeez...it was a joke. I can't believe you are using research from
someone who underwrites many NPR programs!

(hint - before you freak out, that too was just a joke)

Here.. have an "unbiased" link if it matters so much to you......
http://people-press.org/

It *doesn't* "matter so much to me". Not as much as it apparently
matters to you.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:47:47 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million.

Prove it.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:01:17 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:49:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bal_slides.pdf

Oh, by the way, isn't the Washington Post one of those news
organizations that you detest as liars and left-wing malaprops?

OMFG.... You are really desperately spinning now. Its not a Post survey
you incredible buffoon.. they just linked the report... it was Pew
Research
who did the work.

Jeez...it was a joke. I can't believe you are using research from
someone who underwrites many NPR programs!

(hint - before you freak out, that too was just a joke)

Here.. have an "unbiased" link if it matters so much to you......
http://people-press.org/

It *doesn't* "matter so much to me". Not as much as it apparently
matters to you.

Quit obfuscating.... you can't offer any better research on the subject
than the Pew report I referenced. End of story.

ScottW

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article YQ7Ff.85206$0G.61147@dukeread10,
"ScottW" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
ups.com...

ScottW wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:24:39 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 3 Feb 2006 14:41:26 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish
between
the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


it only admires the latter.

Thanks for the laugh.

No kidding.

This is my frustration with the left.... they don't take time to know
the
reality... they turn their hopes into facts (ala Kerrys 53% of our
kids
don't graduate high school).

Facts are... while this surveys shows that attitudes are changing in
the
Muslim world... support for terrorism is hardly a "tiny minority".

Excuse me; I thought that you were saying that the left (the American
political left) admires those of Islam who "use terrorism and fascism
to further their skewed reading of their religion."

If you want to express my views try quoting me rather than Dave.

That's why I said, "Excuse me", ya know. IMO, a quoting error.

Then the intent of your "no kidding" post is even less apparent..... but
frankly I don't care.


My objection with Daves statement (which you apparently concurred with)
was
his "tiny minority" characterization. The data shows support for
terrorism in the Islamic world is not limited in any way to a tiny
minority.

This is the point the left and even our politically correct leadership...
won't accept.
This is why Hamas political victory was so shocking to them.

ScottW

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:47:47 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million.

Prove it.

Can't you look up national pops and add?

ScottW

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:35:55 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:47:47 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million.

Prove it.

Whatever the true figures, Dave, I'm sure you'll agree that a
disturbing number of Muslims, especially young Muslims, appear to
support violence as a political and religious tool. It's not a
question of painting every member of a particular faith black so much
as simply recognising which way the wind is blowing.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


Heres your tiny minority in action

http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...ap2500417.html

ScottW

"ScottW" wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: dave weil wrote:
: On 3 Feb 2006 13:01:58 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:
:
:
: dave weil wrote:
: On 3 Feb 2006 11:03:43 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:
:
: Yes, I'm against that sort of thing as well. However, even YOU must
: admit that the preponderance of "boycott" as social commentary is
: coming from the Right.
:
: Is Islam on the left or the right?
:
: Definitely on the Right.
:
: Not my right. Why does it seem that the left is opposed to Western
: civilization and cultural influence on Islamic nations and supportive
: of Islamic resistance in the culture war?
:
: Because you see everything through your own prism, maybe?
:
: You didn't answer the question. Do you deny the left is supportive
: of Islam in it's culture war? (which is somewhat suicidal for many
: segments of the left)
:
: Islamic extremists are just a different form of Right-wing evangelical
: fundamentalists. They have no tolerance for religious views that run
: counter to their beliefs and they replace the Bible with the Koran as
: a way of enforcing what they think people should believe and how they
: should act and what they should read and see in the media.
:
: Sounds a lot like the anti-religous left and ACLU.
:
: (BTW, don't
: you think that a news organization has the same rights as any other
: business when it comes to protecting their interests)? If WalMart
: doesn't want to offend a portion of their base by not offer a certain
: medication, shouldn't a news organization have the discretion not to
: air potentially offensive and inflammatory material?
:
: and **** off the rest of us that wants to see what is so
: "inflammatory". Sure, they have that right. Just like I have a right
: to turn the channel, cancel my subscription, and call for others to do
: so.
:
:
: Can't you see that Islamic extremists are fighting the same sort of
: "culture war" that President Bush and Co. are fighting?
:
: The left isn't fighting a bit of culture war themselves? Frankly...
: I don' t consider Bush and Co. fighting a culture war... they're
: fighting an anti violence, anti terrorism war. They have no concern
: about Islamic culture as long as it doesn't hurt people.
:
: They are just
: using more violent means and they are far more strict in what they
: "allow", which is tragic. But they are certainly NOT "left of center".
:
: You appear to be espousing a tolerant left vs an intolerant right...
: but I find the left anything but tolerant and just as or more prone to
: violence to impose their views as anyone. Take PITA and Earth
: Liberation Front for examples.
:
: ScottW

.................................................. ........................
If we take 'good governance of the world' to be the goal,
economical, political or religious views and ensuing policies
just don't work out very effectively.

With good governance.. i would mean:
using the sum total of natural resources, human intelligence,
inventiveness, organisational talent, entrepeneurial spirit and
artistic abilities efficiently to create a
sustainable and moderately growing world economy
high recycling low pollution production
an opportunity-rich, exiting world to live in
maximizing personal freedom wherever possible
governments being more in the facilitating
than in the penalizing business
;-)

in essence, rightsizing to the only thing that works:
human psychology

Rudy

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:38:27 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Here.. have an "unbiased" link if it matters so much to you......
http://people-press.org/

It *doesn't* "matter so much to me". Not as much as it apparently
matters to you.

Quit obfuscating.... you can't offer any better research on the subject
than the Pew report I referenced. End of story.

Who's obsfucating? It was a JOKE. Can't you get it through your head?

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:44:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

This is why Hamas political victory was so shocking to them.

I didn't see the Palestinian Territory listed in the Pew Report.

chuckle

Hey Scott, THAT'S A JOKE!

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:38:27 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Here.. have an "unbiased" link if it matters so much to you......
http://people-press.org/

It *doesn't* "matter so much to me". Not as much as it apparently
matters to you.

Quit obfuscating.... you can't offer any better research on the subject
than the Pew report I referenced. End of story.

Who's obsfucating? It was a JOKE. Can't you get it through your head?

I can see why your standup career didn't last.

ScottW

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:45:57 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:47:47 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million.

Prove it.

Can't you look up national pops and add?

ScottW

Sorry that you misunderstood. I meant how many people believed in
suicide bombing, not how many people were represented in the countries
listed.

My error in not being more specific.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:44:36 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

This is why Hamas political victory was so shocking to them.

I didn't see the Palestinian Territory listed in the Pew Report.

chuckle

Hey Scott, THAT'S A JOKE!

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:23:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


Heres your tiny minority in action

http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...ap2500417.html

ScottW

And here's your right-wing in action:

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christi...ts_kill_44.htm

Unlike you, however, I don't extrapolate this into a global
condemnation of the right-wing. Just as Jim Jones didn't represent all
of Christianity.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:45:57 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:47:47 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million.

Prove it.

Can't you look up national pops and add?

ScottW

Sorry that you misunderstood. I meant how many people believed in
suicide bombing, not how many people were represented in the countries
listed.

My error in not being more specific.

Lets see if pasting a spreadsheet formattiing make it across usenet.

often rarely Never Pop Never often/som rarely
Lebanon 0.39 0.19 0.33 3.8 1.254 1.482 0.722
Morroco 0.13 0.05 0.79 30.7 24.253 3.991 1.535
Pakistan 0.25 0.19 0.46 162.4 74.704 40.6 30.856
Indonesia 0.15 0.18 0.66 221.9 146.454 33.285 39.942
Turkey 0.14 0.06 0.66 72.9 48.114 10.206 4.374
Jordan 0.57 0.31 0.11 5.8 0.638 3.306 1.798
497.5 295.417 92.87 79.227 172.097


If not... the countries listed total pops are 497.5 million, 92.87 Million
(18.7%) often or sometimes support suicide bombing, 79.2 million (15.9%)
rarely, and 295.4 (59.4%) never.

Combine the nevers and rarely... these are people who under some
circumstance will support suicide bombings against civilian targets in
defence of Islam... 34.6% or 172.1 million people in just those six
countries.

ScottW

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:23:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


Heres your tiny minority in action

http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...ap2500417.html

ScottW

And here's your right-wing in action:

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christi...ts_kill_44.htm

Unlike you, however, I don't extrapolate this into a global
condemnation of the right-wing.

That not my right wing... and trying to tie American right wing
conservatives to random world religous conflicts is just plain demagogic.

ScottW

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 10:25:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Combine the nevers and rarely... these are people who under some
circumstance will support suicide bombings against civilian targets in
defence of Islam... 34.6% or 172.1 million people in just those six
countries.

I think you misspoke here.

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 10:41:19 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:23:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
...

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


Heres your tiny minority in action

http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...ap2500417.html

ScottW

And here's your right-wing in action:

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christi...ts_kill_44.htm

Unlike you, however, I don't extrapolate this into a global
condemnation of the right-wing.

That not my right wing... and trying to tie American right wing
conservatives to random world religous conflicts is just plain demagogic.

Well, support of rampaging hooligans isn't *my* left-wing either.
Although, I, apparently like the right-wing Vatican, see some
foundation for dissatisfaction, even if I side more on the side of
mainstream "leftists" like Dr. Martin Luther King and less on the side
of fringe "leftists" like Bobby Seale.

You lose.

Again.

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:crrFf.85276$0G.69803@dukeread10...

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:45:57 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:47:47 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims worldwide do you think are
represented by the above figures?

Almost 500 Million.

Prove it.

Can't you look up national pops and add?

ScottW

Sorry that you misunderstood. I meant how many people believed in
suicide bombing, not how many people were represented in the countries
listed.

My error in not being more specific.

Lets see if pasting a spreadsheet formattiing make it across usenet.

often rarely Never Pop Never often/som rarely
Lebanon 0.39 0.19 0.33 3.8 1.254 1.482 0.722
Morroco 0.13 0.05 0.79 30.7 24.253 3.991 1.535
Pakistan 0.25 0.19 0.46 162.4 74.704 40.6 30.856
Indonesia 0.15 0.18 0.66 221.9 146.454 33.285 39.942
Turkey 0.14 0.06 0.66 72.9 48.114 10.206 4.374
Jordan 0.57 0.31 0.11 5.8 0.638 3.306 1.798
497.5 295.417 92.87 79.227 172.097


If not... the countries listed total pops are 497.5 million, 92.87
Million (18.7%) often or sometimes support suicide bombing, 79.2 million
(15.9%) rarely, and 295.4 (59.4%) never.

Combine the nevers and rarely... these are people who under some
circumstance will support suicide bombings against civilian targets in
defence of Islam... 34.6% or 172.1 million people in just those six
countries.


All we need to do is find out which ones they are, and kill them.

BTW, I think that those 12 cartoons are purposely offensive, just as I would
think that burning a cross or painting swastikas in a Jewish cemetary
is offensive. just cause you have the right to free speech
doesn't mean that you don't have any personal responsibility.
A conservative talk radio host here, Michael Graham, got canned for
saying that the religion of Islam is a terrorist organization, and justly
so.
That's just about what a few of those cartoons said.

OTOH, rioters burning down embassies should be shot and killed.




--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
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On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:43:56 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

BTW, I think that those 12 cartoons are purposely offensive, just as I would
think that burning a cross or painting swastikas in a Jewish cemetary
is offensive. just cause you have the right to free speech
doesn't mean that you don't have any personal responsibility.
A conservative talk radio host here, Michael Graham, got canned for
saying that the religion of Islam is a terrorist organization, and justly
so.

Just to freak you out, this is EXACTLY what Sam Donaldson said this
morning on This Week with George Stephanopolis. He talked news
orgaizations having the "right" to air the name of rape victims but
not chosing to do so.

Funny how the religious fundamentalists had a similar reaction to
picturing Jesus in the new, now cancelled series, The Book of Daniel.
Of course, they didn't go around bombing network headquarters (except
for email and phone bombing, of course). Yes, one caricatures holy
symbols under risk. Religion is often the area where people lose their
sense of humor and perspective.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:43:56 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

BTW, I think that those 12 cartoons are purposely offensive, just as I
would
think that burning a cross or painting swastikas in a Jewish cemetary
is offensive. just cause you have the right to free speech
doesn't mean that you don't have any personal responsibility.
A conservative talk radio host here, Michael Graham, got canned for
saying that the religion of Islam is a terrorist organization, and justly
so.

Just to freak you out, this is EXACTLY what Sam Donaldson said this
morning on This Week with George Stephanopolis. He talked news
orgaizations having the "right" to air the name of rape victims but
not chosing to do so.


I happen to like Sam Donaldson.
He is more of the old style liberal,a dying breed.
Just to freak you out, he had a morning radio talk show here,
but it didn't work out. When he left, he was replaced by the same
Michael Graham I was just telling you about.



Funny how the religious fundamentalists had a similar reaction to
picturing Jesus in the new, now cancelled series, The Book of Daniel.
Of course, they didn't go around bombing network headquarters (except
for email and phone bombing, of course). Yes, one caricatures holy
symbols under risk. Religion is often the area where people lose their
sense of humor and perspective.

That, and audio.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 10:25:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Combine the nevers and rarely... these are people who under some
circumstance will support suicide bombings against civilian targets in
defence of Islam... 34.6% or 172.1 million people in just those six
countries.

I think you misspoke here.

You're right... I meant combine the often and sometimes supporters with the
rarely supporters to get these numbers.

ScottW

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:43:56 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

BTW, I think that those 12 cartoons are purposely offensive, just as I
would
think that burning a cross or painting swastikas in a Jewish cemetary
is offensive. just cause you have the right to free speech
doesn't mean that you don't have any personal responsibility.
A conservative talk radio host here, Michael Graham, got canned for
saying that the religion of Islam is a terrorist organization, and justly
so.

Just to freak you out, this is EXACTLY what Sam Donaldson said this
morning on This Week with George Stephanopolis. He talked news
orgaizations having the "right" to air the name of rape victims but
not chosing to do so.

Not a good analogy to me...

comparing an exercise in free speech against vs those who would be offended
vs the
rights of a crime victim.

Funny how the religious fundamentalists had a similar reaction to
picturing Jesus in the new, now cancelled series, The Book of Daniel.

I don't recall them threatening beheadings and burning buildings.

Of course, they didn't go around bombing network headquarters (except
for email and phone bombing, of course). Yes, one caricatures holy
symbols under risk. Religion is often the area where people lose their
sense of humor and perspective.

But if you allow censorship merely for the right to avoid being offended,
then everyone can invoke that right. Look closely at how Islam caricatures
Jews and know their hypocrisy. If they want the right to not be offended...
then they must grant that right to others. I, for example, would certainly
find a public call to prayer in my town... offensive.

ScottW

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:KVtFf.85296$0G.81453@dukeread10...


But if you allow censorship merely for the right to avoid being offended,
then everyone can invoke that right. Look closely at how Islam
caricatures
Jews and know their hypocrisy. If they want the right to not be
offended...
then they must grant that right to others. I, for example, would
certainly
find a public call to prayer in my town... offensive.


Yes, they are so ethnocentric. They get offended when one does it
to them, but they fell free to to do it towards anyon else.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

ScottW wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

It does report that Sheehan wasn't the only person removed
from the gallery last night.

**Was Sheehan the only one arrested, handcuffed, fingerprinted and
detained?


OMG Cindy lost 4 hours... It's a travesty I tell you. But what about the
poor cop who had to mugshot her ugly mug? What about his rights?

He was on the clock - no rights apply.

dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 10:41:19 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:23:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
...

Yes I do. I don't deny that the Left tries to distinguish between the
vast majority of islam and the tiny minority of those who use
terrorism and fascism to further their skewed reading of their
religion.


Heres your tiny minority in action

http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...ap2500417.html

ScottW

And here's your right-wing in action:

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christi...ts_kill_44.htm

Unlike you, however, I don't extrapolate this into a global
condemnation of the right-wing.

That not my right wing... and trying to tie American right wing
conservatives to random world religous conflicts is just plain demagogic.

Well, support of rampaging hooligans isn't *my* left-wing either.
Although, I, apparently like the right-wing Vatican,

You like religious appeasement for everyone but American Christians I
guess.

see some
foundation for dissatisfaction, even if I side more on the side of
mainstream "leftists" like Dr. Martin Luther King and less on the side
of fringe "leftists" like Bobby Seale.

I find it hilarious that you have to grap an Icon to represent the
left who was in actuality a Christian conservative.


You lose.

Again.

You're confused... again.

ScottW

Scottie dorked:

mainstream "leftists" like Dr. Martin Luther King

I find it hilarious that you have to grap an Icon to represent the
left who was in actuality a Christian conservative.

Politically speaking, leftist is generally used to refer to somebody who
espouses, advocates, or impels changes in society. Perhaps you're
confused again about the subject at hand, which appears to be politics,
not religious mores.

On 6 Feb 2006 09:43:31 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:

see some
foundation for dissatisfaction, even if I side more on the side of
mainstream "leftists" like Dr. Martin Luther King and less on the side
of fringe "leftists" like Bobby Seale.

I find it hilarious that you have to grap an Icon to represent the
left who was in actuality a Christian conservative.

Thanks for the laugh...

George M. Middius wrote:
Scottie dorked:

mainstream "leftists" like Dr. Martin Luther King

I find it hilarious that you have to grap an Icon to represent the
left who was in actuality a Christian conservative.

Politically speaking, leftist is generally used to refer to somebody who
espouses, advocates, or impels changes in society. Perhaps you're
confused again about the subject at hand, which appears to be politics,
not religious mores.

So what would a righty be in a liberal socialist society? Once again
you can't hold up to any scrutiny.

ScottW

Terrierdork yapped:

mainstream "leftists" like Dr. Martin Luther King

I find it hilarious that you have to grap an Icon to represent the
left who was in actuality a Christian conservative.

Politically speaking, leftist is generally used to refer to somebody who
espouses, advocates, or impels changes in society. Perhaps you're
confused again about the subject at hand, which appears to be politics,
not religious mores.

So what would a righty be in a liberal socialist society? Once again
you can't hold up to any scrutiny.

I must say, dave has you pretty riled. You're shooting from the hip
before I even start to reduce you to tears and fist-pounding.

To answer your childish question, a "righty" would be, as always,
someone who wants society to return to ways of the past. I suppose this
didacticism may confuse you, inasmuch as you might, in your
simple-minded way, say that any change from the status quo is the same
as any other change. Don't bother reflecting on this point; just try to
put your ridiculous claim that MLK was a conservative under scrutiny.