"chanc" wrote

There are many speakers in the market that are
known to be monitor speaker.

From a consumer marketing perspective this is a
generic term denoting general product type.


Monitor speaker (as I understand) has very accurate
frequency response, not more than +/-3 dB from 0 dB.
Then why they sound differently?

Hearing capacity greatly exceeds the material construction
limits of the transducer to recreate the real event
(music/voice). In addition the audio environment the
speakers play in greatly affects your perception of the
speakers auditory signature. In one example like
recording monitor speakers, these are often designed
to play within a close distance of the ear. This design
creates a sound stage which does not take into
consideration room boundary effects. The monitor
room acoustics, in this instance, is left to the user to
solve for their particular application. In other words,
frequency response is a limited indicator of high
fidelity.

Competent speakers analysis requires a battery of tests
just to began to get an intellectual handle on their unique
sound signature and capability. Why fuss, your ears do
that automatically for your preference .


What is the real meaning of "monitor" speaker?

"real meaning"... dualities and paradoxes abound.

Tim Brown wrote:

(chanc) wrote in message . com...

There are many speakers in the market that are known to be monitor
speaker. Monitor speaker (as I understand) has very accurate frequency
response, not more than +/-3 dB from 0 dB. Then why they sound
differently? What is the real meaning of "monitor" speaker?

Regards,
Chanchai P.


'Monitor' is little more than a marketing term these days. Yes, a
monitor speaker should have an accurate frequency response. Monitor
speakers are generally used in a smallish room and the direct field
characteristics are most important. When you throw in room interaction
two 'monitor' speakers that seem very similar in an anechoic chamber
might perform very differently in a 'real' room.

Want real "monitors"?

www.jblpro.com

Note how they come in sizes from big to huge.

From: George M. Middius
Date: 7/8/2004 1:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Little Timmy Brown-Nose whined:

'Monitor' is little more than a marketing term these days.

Want real "monitors"?
www.jblpro.com
Note how they come in sizes from big to huge.

And this has what to do with what I posted?

Wheeler has established the RAO standard for humorlessness. You may return
to fondling your nanites.











Ouch.

Tim Brown wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote in message link.net...

Tim Brown wrote:



'Monitor' is little more than a marketing term these days. Yes, a
monitor speaker should have an accurate frequency response. Monitor
speakers are generally used in a smallish room and the direct field
characteristics are most important. When you throw in room interaction
two 'monitor' speakers that seem very similar in an anechoic chamber
might perform very differently in a 'real' room.

Want real "monitors"?

www.jblpro.com

Note how they come in sizes from big to huge.



And this has what to do with what I posted?

I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.

Now - if you want *SMALL*, useable monitors, yeah - that's going
to be another company. But you can get "monitors" that are good
for big rooms and backyard parties still. "Near-field" impared
speakers, mind you

Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding. Tannoy also has
a nice line as well.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Joseph Oberlander wrote:
I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.

Now - if you want *SMALL*, useable monitors, yeah - that's going
to be another company. But you can get "monitors" that are good
for big rooms and backyard parties still. "Near-field" impared
speakers, mind you

Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding. Tannoy also has
a nice line as well.









I think that there are several ways of defining what is or is not a "monitor
speaker". Size and/or accuracy is only one criterion.

Usage by recording studios or recording engineers, or perhaps even by
electronics manufacturers (to test/voice their amplifiers) would be another.
For example, while I haven't heard their products, Westlake Audio has long
claimed that many recording studios use their speakers:

http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speaker...user_list.html

Also, at one time the BBC used to use Quad ESL-57's as "monitors" - as
indicated in their manuals and literature. I used to own a pair of these. I
don't know whether the 63's or 988's/989's have found similar usage, but
certainly would not be surprised.

And even Martin Logan, as I recall, as mentioned in some of their promotional
literature that some of their models (e.g. the SL3) have been used at times by
various manufacturers to "voice" and/or otherwise evaluate their
preamplivfiers, amplifiers, etc.

It's worth noting, of course, that both Quad and Martin Logan electrostatics
are known, in part because of the technology involved, for extremely low
distortion levels (compared to dynamic speakers), and I find it interesting
that because of their planar construction would also be free of cabinet
diffraction effects as well.

YMMV.



Bruce J. Richman

George M. Middius wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:


And this has what to do with what I posted?

I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.


Some of them can sound very good, even in typical home surrounding. (Not a
house, note, whose foundation is crumbling and whose decor consists of
random piles of electronic parts and other junk.)

(Random shot at Kreuger noted)

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


George M. Middius wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:


And this has what to do with what I posted?

I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.


Some of them can sound very good, even in typical home surrounding. (Not a
house, note, whose foundation is crumbling and whose decor consists of
random piles of electronic parts and other junk.)

(Random shot at Kreuger noted)









Prove it. If iron knees killed. ROFLAOMMT !!






Bruce J. Richman

Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:



George M. Middius wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:



And this has what to do with what I posted?

I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.


Some of them can sound very good, even in typical home surrounding. (Not a
house, note, whose foundation is crumbling and whose decor consists of
random piles of electronic parts and other junk.)

(Random shot at Kreuger noted)










Prove it. If iron knees killed. ROFLAOMMT !!



You missed the shots, evidently, a year or two ago where he posted
a shot of his "equipment" and it was a pile of old crap.

S888Wheel a écrit :
From: George M. Middius
Date: 7/8/2004 1:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Little Timmy Brown-Nose whined:


'Monitor' is little more than a marketing term these days.

Want real "monitors"?
www.jblpro.com
Note how they come in sizes from big to huge.

And this has what to do with what I posted?

Wheeler has established the RAO standard for humorlessness. You may return
to fondling your nanites.


Ouch.

LOL !

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:



George M. Middius wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:



And this has what to do with what I posted?

I thought it was a good followup to your assertion that most are
marketing terms nowadays. So, the obvious next question would be
"where do I find real studio monitors"?

Yes, they still make them, and yes, they are ugly as sin and
very effective.


Some of them can sound very good, even in typical home surrounding. (Not a
house, note, whose foundation is crumbling and whose decor consists of
random piles of electronic parts and other junk.)

(Random shot at Kreuger noted)










Prove it. If iron knees killed. ROFLAOMMT !!



You missed the shots, evidently, a year or two ago where he posted
a shot of his "equipment" and it was a pile of old crap.









No, I remember it. In fact, I once initiated a thread where RAO posters were
encouraged to discuss/list their systems, and Krueger participated along with
many others.



Bruce J. Richman

The Artist wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" emitted :


Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding.


Overrated.

Overpriced, too.

Honestly, a good pair of stats will smoke most monitors, but studios
aren't designed with REAL precision sound in mind so much as mixing
stuff to get it to CD as efficiently as possible while surviving
large amounts of abuse to the equipment.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


The Artist wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" emitted :


Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding.


Overrated.

Overpriced, too.

Honestly, a good pair of stats will smoke most monitors, but studios
aren't designed with REAL precision sound in mind so much as mixing
stuff to get it to CD as efficiently as possible while surviving
large amounts of abuse to the equipment.









Thanks for admitting you haven't done the necessary solid status, digitall,
byass controlled testing necessary - LOT'S!!

If iron knees killed!

If you haven't done the necessary meashuremants in the defamed Grosse Point
feeled lavatories, then your post is irrelevant, asked and answered, and oh
yes.................. prove it!!

As if listening to the sound had anything to do with optimal response
Measurements are all that matters - and you can buy off on that and never
darken the doors of an audiophile

Preferences be damned !!!







Bruce J. Richman

In article ,
(Bruce J. Richman) wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


The Artist wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" emitted :


Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding.


Overrated.

Overpriced, too.

Honestly, a good pair of stats will smoke most monitors, but studios
aren't designed with REAL precision sound in mind so much as mixing
stuff to get it to CD as efficiently as possible while surviving
large amounts of abuse to the equipment.









Thanks for admitting you haven't done the necessary solid status, digitall,
byass controlled testing necessary - LOT'S!!

If iron knees killed!

If you haven't done the necessary meashuremants in the defamed Grosse Point
feeled lavatories, then your post is irrelevant, asked and answered, and oh
yes.................. prove it!!

As if listening to the sound had anything to do with optimal response
Measurements are all that matters - and you can buy off on that and never
darken the doors of an audiophile

Preferences be damned !!!







Bruce J. Richman





I feel like my body has gotten totally out of shape, so I got my
doctor's permission to join a fitness club and start exercising. I
decided to take an aerobics class for seniors. I bent, twisted, gyrated,
jumped up and down, and perspired for an hour. But, by the time I got my
leotards on, the class was over.
--------------------------------------------

Reporters interviewing a 104 year-old woman: "And what do you think is
the best thing about being 104?" the reporter asked.
She simply replied, "No peer pressure."
------------------------------------------

The nice thing about being senile is you can hide your own Easter eggs.
------------------------------------------

Just before the funeral services, the undertaker came up to the very
elderly widow and asked, "How old was your husband?"
"98," she replied. "Two years older than me." "So you're! 96," the
undertaker commented. She responded, "Hardly worth going home is it?"
----------------------------------------------

I've sure gotten old. I've had 2 By-pass surgeries. A hip replacement,
new knees. Fought prostate cancer, and diabetes. I'm half blind, can't
hear anything quieter than a jet engine, take 40 different medications
that make me dizzy, winded, and subject to blackouts. Have bouts with
dementia. Have poor circulation, hardly feel my hands and feet anymore.
Can't remember if I'm 85 or 92. Have lost all my friends. But.....
Thank God, I still have my Florida driver's license!
----------------------------------------------

A 97 year old man goes into his doctor's office and says, "Doc, I want
my sex drive lowered."
"Sir", replied the doctor, "You're 97. Don't you think your sex drive is
all in your head?" "You're damned right it is!" replied the old man.
"That's why I want it lowered!"
----------------------------------------------

An elderly woman from Brooklyn decided to prepare her will and make her
final requests. She told her rabbi she had two final requests. First,
she wanted to be cremated, and second, she wanted her ashes scattered
over Bloomingdale's. "Bloomingdale's?" the rabbi exclaimed. "Why
Bloomingdale's?" "Then I'll be sure my daughters visit me twice a week."

Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:



The Artist wrote:


"Joseph Oberlander" emitted :



Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding.


Overrated.

Overpriced, too.

Honestly, a good pair of stats will smoke most monitors, but studios
aren't designed with REAL precision sound in mind so much as mixing
stuff to get it to CD as efficiently as possible while surviving
large amounts of abuse to the equipment.










Thanks for admitting you haven't done the necessary solid status, digitall,
byass controlled testing necessary - LOT'S!!

The last studio you were in - what did it look like? Here in Los
Angeles, music capitol of the world, they all are semi run-down
holes in the wall with stains and tears and the like. Some are better
than others, but most are built like a typical highschool band room.

Abuse is a known factor. Clipping and plugging in insturments "hot"
and the like. Accidently hitting the wrong switch or getting an initial
level wrong. And the people running them - most hardly qualify as
high school graduates.

Sure, the major music studios are a different story, but the entire
rest of the industry is another story. Guess which market the "monitor"
manufacturers sell to the most?

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Bruce J. Richman wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:



The Artist wrote:


"Joseph Oberlander" emitted :



Genelec makes good ones. Very nice sounding.


Overrated.

Overpriced, too.

Honestly, a good pair of stats will smoke most monitors, but studios
aren't designed with REAL precision sound in mind so much as mixing
stuff to get it to CD as efficiently as possible while surviving
large amounts of abuse to the equipment.










Thanks for admitting you haven't done the necessary solid status, digitall,
byass controlled testing necessary - LOT'S!!

The last studio you were in - what did it look like? Here in Los
Angeles, music capitol of the world, they all are semi run-down
holes in the wall with stains and tears and the like. Some are better
than others, but most are built like a typical highschool band room.

Abuse is a known factor. Clipping and plugging in insturments "hot"
and the like. Accidently hitting the wrong switch or getting an initial
level wrong. And the people running them - most hardly qualify as
high school graduates.

Sure, the major music studios are a different story, but the entire
rest of the industry is another story. Guess which market the "monitor"
manufacturers sell to the most?









Actually, the last studio I was in was Criteria Studios in North Miami - home
of some of the Bee Gees and Clapton recordings. (The Bee Gees lived in Miami
Beach). The late Zippy used to equip Criteria Studios with Dunlavy speakers,
so their speakers at least, were pretty good.

Now, most of the recording in this area is geared towards the Hispanic audience
somewhat, with Gloria Estefan's husband, Emilio, active in record producing,
recording, etc.

AFAIK, Westlake speakers don't have much of a presence in the general
audiophile market, nor do they seem to get much exposure in the Audiophile
press. But as in a website reference I po9sted to them earlier, they do seem
to have a lot of usage in recording studios.

I agree with you that decent electrostatics are superior to most of the
so-called "monitors'. LOT'S !!!!






Bruce J. Richman

"Sam Byrams" wrote in message
om

No one has taken JBL seriously for studio monitoring for a long while.

Simply not true.

Genelec seems fairly common.

Genelec's are actually relatively rare, compared to say Mackie or JBL
monitor speakers.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sam Byrams" wrote in message
om


No one has taken JBL seriously for studio monitoring for a long while.


Simply not true.

Have to agree on this one. More than half of the studios and
movie theatres use JBL speakers. As large as most of the rest
combined.

chanc wrote:

There are many speakers in the market that are known to be monitor
speaker. Monitor speaker (as I understand) has very accurate frequency
response, not more than +/-3 dB from 0 dB. Then why they sound
differently? What is the real meaning of "monitor" speaker?

*True* monitor speakers - as used in recording studios - do indeed
normally exhibit very flat response or otherwise the term 'monitor' in its
truest sense would be invalid.

Sadly - the term has ben hijacked for marketing advantage.

A *real* monitor speaker is likely to be hugely expensive relative to
anything in the consumer marker - but the label gives a feelgood factor.

Having said that, most ppl would be startled and indeed possibly very
disappointed to hear their music through real monitor speakers.

Most typical hi-fi speakers are designed to provide a 'flattering'
characteristic which may not be accurate compared to a true monitor. Esp
true with regard to bass input.

Listen and make your own judgement.


Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message

chanc wrote:

There are many speakers in the market that are known to be monitor
speaker. Monitor speaker (as I understand) has very accurate
frequency response, not more than +/-3 dB from 0 dB. Then why they
sound differently? What is the real meaning of "monitor" speaker?

*True* monitor speakers - as used in recording studios - do indeed
normally exhibit very flat response or otherwise the term 'monitor'
in its truest sense would be invalid.

Some do, some don't. If you listen to a row of popular studio monitors,
they'll all sound different.

Sadly - the term has ben hijacked for marketing advantage.

Agreed.

A *real* monitor speaker is likely to be hugely expensive relative to
anything in the consumer marker - but the label gives a feelgood
factor.

I don't think that a real monitor has to cost any more than a consumer
speaker with similar frequency range and SPL capacity. Often, it seems like
the true monitor might cost less because the production marketplace tends to
be more pragmatic.

Well-respected studio monitors like the Macke HR824 and JBL LSR28P aren't
cheap, but they aren't in the top price tiers of consumer speakers either,
especially considering that both include credible power amps.

Having said that, most ppl would be startled and indeed possibly very
disappointed to hear their music through real monitor speakers.

Agreed. Speakers that are designed for accuracy generally come off as being
a bit on the brash side. Sometimes more than a bit.

Most typical hi-fi speakers are designed to provide a 'flattering'
characteristic which may not be accurate compared to a true monitor.

Kick up the mid-bass a tad, back off on the midrange and treble...