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Nate Najar Nate Najar is offline
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Default what mic for sound reinforcement of piano, loud band

so there's this r&b outfit I have worked for off and on over the years. It's very loud. The band leader is an exceptional singer and a skilled keyboardist. He plays left hand bass on a bass synth, and has a variety of different modules and so forth. But in one room we've been working, they have a grand piano, and he likes the look so he's been playing it (surrounded by all his other keyboards, and a hammopnd A100!). We carry our own sound (it's a rag tag mish mosh of once good gear that has been severely abused) and he plays everything too loud. Still, last night I made a handful of adjustments to the rig and it was significantly cleaner than usual.

He doesn't really have much in the way of microphones, a handful of 58's really, and he just sticks a 58 with a foam screen into the 3 hole of the soundboard. Frankly, I agree, that is probably the best way to get gain before feedback, and he needs gain. With a bit of knob twisting I was able to get a loud enough, clean enough sound out of it and overall everything was fairly good. But I'm wondering if there's a better choice I should try out for that application? A marcus berry is out of the question, it isn't our piano... We run into this situation every so often and I wouldn't mind doing a better turn than we are if possible.... I'm tempted to bring an re20 and see how it does- and I already own that one! But what else might i consider?
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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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Default what mic for sound reinforcement of piano, loud band

Nate Najar wrote:
so there's this r&b outfit I have worked for off and on over the
years. It's very loud. The band leader is an exceptional singer and
a skilled keyboardist. He plays left hand bass on a bass synth, and
has a variety of different modules and so forth. But in one room
we've been working, they have a grand piano, and he likes the look so
he's been playing it (surrounded by all his other keyboards, and a
hammopnd A100!). We carry our own sound (it's a rag tag mish mosh of
once good gear that has been severely abused) and he plays everything
too loud. Still, last night I made a handful of adjustments to the
rig and it was significantly cleaner than usual.

He doesn't really have much in the way of microphones, a handful of
58's really, and he just sticks a 58 with a foam screen into the 3
hole of the soundboard.


Legend has it that Jerry Lee Lewis did the same thing.

Frankly, I agree, that is probably the best
way to get gain before feedback, and he needs gain. With a bit of
knob twisting I was able to get a loud enough, clean enough sound out
of it and overall everything was fairly good. But I'm wondering if
there's a better choice I should try out for that application? A
marcus berry is out of the question, it isn't our piano... We run
into this situation every so often and I wouldn't mind doing a better
turn than we are if possible.... I'm tempted to bring an re20 and see
how it does- and I already own that one! But what else might i
consider?


An omni? No proximity effect that way. I am always willing to try an
omni condenser if there's phantom.

Maybe a hypercard? That soundboard is a bear trap of resonance. it's
"show" business, sometimes sound gets to sit in the back seat.

Boundary mic?

The Barcus Berry 4000 claims it can be temporary. "The system can be
quickly and easily installed on any piano or harp and can be just as
simply removed without leaving any visible evidence of its use."

http://tinyurl.com/lk737s4
http://preview.tinyurl.com/lk737s4

It's a boundary mic so that does not sound like a good recipe for gain
before feedback.

--
Les Cargill
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PStamler PStamler is offline
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Default what mic for sound reinforcement of piano, loud band

Do you have a good lavalier mic or two? If two, you might try dangling them at two corners of the piano, front right (from the player's point of view) and back left. If things are too loud for omnis, you might see about E-V RE15s inside the instrument and save the RE20 for his vocal.

Peace,
Paul
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Dave Plowman (News) Dave Plowman (News) is offline
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Default what mic for sound reinforcement of piano, loud band

In article ,
Nate Najar wrote:
so there's this r&b outfit I have worked for off and on over the years.
It's very loud. The band leader is an exceptional singer and a skilled
keyboardist. He plays left hand bass on a bass synth, and has a variety
of different modules and so forth. But in one room we've been working,
they have a grand piano, and he likes the look so he's been playing it
(surrounded by all his other keyboards, and a hammopnd A100!). We carry
our own sound (it's a rag tag mish mosh of once good gear that has been
severely abused) and he plays everything too loud. Still, last night I
made a handful of adjustments to the rig and it was significantly
cleaner than usual.


He doesn't really have much in the way of microphones, a handful of 58's
really, and he just sticks a 58 with a foam screen into the 3 hole of
the soundboard. Frankly, I agree, that is probably the best way to get
gain before feedback, and he needs gain. With a bit of knob twisting I
was able to get a loud enough, clean enough sound out of it and overall
everything was fairly good. But I'm wondering if there's a better
choice I should try out for that application? A marcus berry is out of
the question, it isn't our piano... We run into this situation every so
often and I wouldn't mind doing a better turn than we are if
possible.... I'm tempted to bring an re20 and see how it does- and I
already own that one! But what else might i consider?


There was/is a device called a C-Ducer. A series of contact mics which you
fitted to the sound board. Gave very good separation - but obviously not a
decent piano sound.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default what mic for sound reinforcement of piano, loud band

Nate Najar wrote:
so there's this r&b outfit I have worked for off and on over the years. It=
's very loud. The band leader is an exceptional singer and a skilled keybo=
ardist. He plays left hand bass on a bass synth, and has a variety of diff=
erent modules and so forth. But in one room we've been working, they have =
a grand piano, and he likes the look so he's been playing it (surrounded by=
all his other keyboards, and a hammopnd A100!). We carry our own sound (i=
t's a rag tag mish mosh of once good gear that has been severely abused) an=
d he plays everything too loud. Still, last night I made a handful of adju=
stments to the rig and it was significantly cleaner than usual. =20


Two RE-20s will work well.. if you use one, you will have to pull it far
enough back that leakage will be a problem. If you use two you can bring
them in close, but if you're too close you get too much hammer sound and
it's like your head is inside the piano.

My normal "spots on jazz piano" thing is to use two 441s. Just a little bit
in the mix to bring the piano up, so the excessive hammer sound is not as
much of a problem as it would be if it were soloed.

None of the piano pickups really sound like a piano, but if your goal is to
make the piano really loud at the expense of sound quality, they can be a
good choice. A well-known deaf Latin performer uses the C-Ducer feeding
two dual 15" JBL monitors turned up to OSHA-violating levels, combined with
AKG C414s up against the strings for the actual PA feed. Piano is closed
to keep the monitor leakage out of the C414s and usually covered with packing
blankets.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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