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Tobiah Tobiah is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

Sorry if this is a repeat. My News client freaked, and
I suspect I lot my last post.

Briefly, I was wondering about how to publish a nice
musical performance to youtube etc... while providing
great audio. I've been reading a little about it.

Here is my take after a brief Google search:

1) Provide a great audio signal to the camera
via it's *not stellar* audio input. Great.
No syncing issues, but you can't monitor the
input level on the probably lame onboard preamps.

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.

3) Use timecode. Now, I have a Tascam HD-P2 with timecode.
Would it cost an arm and a leg to get a camera with timecode?


Other than all this, how are casual internet users generating
video with great audio (if there are there any). I could post just
audio of my performance, but I'm now starting to get interested in the
video part of internet content sharing.

Thanks!

Toby


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

"Tobiah" skrev i en meddelelse
...

Sorry if this is a repeat. My News client freaked, and
I suspect I lot my last post.


Briefly, I was wondering about how to publish a nice
musical performance to youtube etc... while providing
great audio. I've been reading a little about it.


Here is my take after a brief Google search:


1) Provide a great audio signal to the camera
via it's *not stellar* audio input. Great.
No syncing issues, but you can't monitor the
input level on the probably lame onboard preamps.


2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.


3) Use timecode. Now, I have a Tascam HD-P2 with timecode.
Would it cost an arm and a leg to get a camera with timecode?


4) Sync the replacement audio to the camera audio or rather sync the video
via the camera audio to the replacement audio. This requires that the video
camera(s) should not be too far away from the sound source. Magix Movie
Editor reportedly can help you doing it, in Sony's competing product - a
"Vegas Lite" it is visually easy, but I miss the option for entering a
temporal offset as Audition (3) has it in audio clip properties in the
multitrack interface. It also doesn't (seem to) have a "lock in time" to
prevent files from accidentally slipping when you click on them. Mostly it
works well though, this because the digitizing crystals seem to be
unbelievably precise. And yes, it is a modified "2)", it is helpful if you
can get away with a clap but not really really necessary.

Toby


5) Disable the darn Avast ad and flame them for reactivating it for news
posts in every binary update in case you paid for Avast, which you should,
it actually seems to be very good.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

In article , Tobiah wrote:
Here is my take after a brief Google search:

1) Provide a great audio signal to the camera
via it's *not stellar* audio input. Great.
No syncing issues, but you can't monitor the
input level on the probably lame onboard preamps.


The real problem is that you can't turn off the AVC on most cameras.

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.


This is not bad at all, really. It might mean having someone clap their
hands on stage in front of a mike at the beginning and end of each set,
but it's really very workable.


3) Use timecode. Now, I have a Tascam HD-P2 with timecode.
Would it cost an arm and a leg to get a camera with timecode?


Yes.

Other than all this, how are casual internet users generating
video with great audio (if there are there any). I could post just
audio of my performance, but I'm now starting to get interested in the
video part of internet content sharing.


If they are smart they are using the best and easiest method:

4) Record double system sound with a digital recorder but ALSO record
ambient sound using the on-camera mike on the video recorder. Use
the on-camera mike as a guide track to synch up the good quality
audio track.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
In article , Tobiah wrote:
Here is my take after a brief Google search:

1) Provide a great audio signal to the camera
via it's *not stellar* audio input. Great.
No syncing issues, but you can't monitor the
input level on the probably lame onboard preamps.


The real problem is that you can't turn off the AVC on most cameras.

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.


This is not bad at all, really. It might mean having someone clap their
hands on stage in front of a mike at the beginning and end of each set,
but it's really very workable.


3) Use timecode. Now, I have a Tascam HD-P2 with timecode.
Would it cost an arm and a leg to get a camera with timecode?


Yes.


It's a shame the Fostex VF16 ( audio recorder ) went out of production.

It would chase timecode quite well. You could stripe MTC onto the camera
audio and have the recorder chase it. This of course assumes
you can get the levels and stuff set on the camera.

Other than all this, how are casual internet users generating
video with great audio (if there are there any). I could post just
audio of my performance, but I'm now starting to get interested in the
video part of internet content sharing.


If they are smart they are using the best and easiest method:

4) Record double system sound with a digital recorder but ALSO record
ambient sound using the on-camera mike on the video recorder. Use
the on-camera mike as a guide track to synch up the good quality
audio track.
--scott


--
Les Cargill
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Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production


"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...

4) Sync the replacement audio to the camera audio or rather sync the video
via the camera audio to the replacement audio. This requires that the
video camera(s) should not be too far away from the sound source. Magix
Movie Editor reportedly can help you doing it, in Sony's competing
product - a "Vegas Lite" it is visually easy, but I miss the option for
entering a temporal offset as Audition (3) has it in audio clip properties
in the multitrack interface. It also doesn't (seem to) have a "lock in
time" to prevent files from accidentally slipping when you click on them.
Mostly it works well though, this because the digitizing crystals seem to
be unbelievably precise. And yes, it is a modified "2)", it is helpful if
you can get away with a clap but not really really necessary.


This is our standard method for all video projects, whether it is a music
event or a wedding ceremony. For weddings, a miniature digital recorder is
placed on the groom with a lapel mike catching the vows and everything else.
For music, of course a better mike and recorder catch the good double system
audio while the camera records with the camera mike and you sync them up
later by placing all tracks on the timeline in a multitrack video editing
program. There is no need for a clapboard or other syncing device. You can
just find an obvious point in the shot that can be easily found on both
audio and video tracks, go roughly to the same spot on both recorders (audio
and video) and fine sync by means of the waveforms. Just keep magnifying the
audio tracks until it is easy to see a common point in the waveforms.
Barring that, you can just listen to both tracks, figure out which one is
ahead, and slip sync them into alignment. In other words, you hear an echo
in the tracks, stop and move one of them, and play again. They will stay in
sync for over an hour if both are digital recorders.

Gary Eickmeier




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Richard Kuschel Richard Kuschel is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:34:55 PM UTC-7, Tobiah wrote:
Sorry if this is a repeat. My News client freaked, and
I suspect I lot my last post.

Briefly, I was wondering about how to publish a nice
musical performance to youtube etc... while providing
great audio. I've been reading a little about it.

Here is my take after a brief Google search:

1) Provide a great audio signal to the camera
via it's *not stellar* audio input. Great.
No syncing issues, but you can't monitor the
input level on the probably lame onboard preamps.

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.

3) Use timecode. Now, I have a Tascam HD-P2 with timecode.
Would it cost an arm and a leg to get a camera with timecode?


Other than all this, how are casual internet users generating
video with great audio (if there are there any). I could post just
audio of my performance, but I'm now starting to get interested in the
video part of internet content sharing.

Thanks!

Toby

You can record the timecode from the recorder to a track on the camera and use that for synch, but it is really overkill for most projects.


I use FCPX and I just import my audio and video from the camera and synch it to my imported audio from the Sound Devices 744T by creating a multicam clip. This works well and quickly. I select synch via audio in the menu.
The only problem is if the camera is a long distance from the audio recording microphones. Then I do have to compensate for that difference by 1ms/foot difference.

I often record in an auditorium where my camera may be as much as 60' from the microphones.

When I can, I do use a clapboard or a hand slap to establish a synch, but I don't find it necessary most of the time.

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Tobiah Tobiah is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production


They will stay in
sync for over an hour if both are digital recorders.


I assumed clock drift was going to be a problem. I'll
give it a go, since this doesn't have to be professional,
and I'm recording short individual pieces at home. I
suppose it's likely that the camera and my sound card will
keep pretty similar time. The camera will also be relatively
close to the instrument.

Toby



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Dave Plowman (News) Dave Plowman (News) is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

In article ,
Tobiah wrote:
Briefly, I was wondering about how to publish a nice
musical performance to youtube etc... while providing
great audio. I've been reading a little about it.


Here is my take after a brief Google search:


1) Provide a great audio signal to the camera
via it's *not stellar* audio input. Great.
No syncing issues, but you can't monitor the
input level on the probably lame onboard preamps.


Assuming you're doing this all on one take, either use the camera mic or a
feed from your mixer - as well as to your high quality recorder.

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.


Clapper boards are not just '1930s stuff' They also give a visual ident of
scene number etc.

3) Use timecode. Now, I have a Tascam HD-P2 with timecode.
Would it cost an arm and a leg to get a camera with timecode?


Yes. There's a big difference in price between domestic and pro stuff.

Simply use any one of a number of video editing packages that allow enough
audio tracks. Lay your wild recording on separate tracks to the camera one
and slide it into sync by ear and eye - which is where the clapper board
makes things slightly easier as a starting point. Just how well it will
remain in sync throughout the entire piece depends on a number of things.

--
*A cartoonist was found dead in his home. Details are sketchy.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

In article , Tobiah wrote:

They will stay in
sync for over an hour if both are digital recorders.


I assumed clock drift was going to be a problem. I'll
give it a go, since this doesn't have to be professional,
and I'm recording short individual pieces at home. I
suppose it's likely that the camera and my sound card will
keep pretty similar time. The camera will also be relatively
close to the instrument.


If you have a guide track on the camera, or you put slates on both beginning
and end, you can actually quantify the clock drift and see how bad it is
and thus compensate for it.

In reality, drift is pretty much not an issue... but I like to slate the end
just in case someday it is.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.


Clapper boards are not just '1930s stuff' They also give a visual ident of
scene number etc.


I never got that. Here in the US, we have slates. In the UK you have
clappers. We have a PA doing the slating, but in the UK you have a
clapper girl. Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.

Best slate ever: http://www.panix.com/~kludge/lizard13.jpg
(It's an MOS slate without a clapstick though.)
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

On 11/10/2014 10:09 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.


Isn't that a brand of baking powder?

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
On 11/10/2014 10:09 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.


Isn't that a brand of baking powder?


That's Clabber Girl, you dolt.

http://www.clabbergirl.com
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Dave Plowman (News) Dave Plowman (News) is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

In article ,
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

2) Do some 1930's stuff and use a slate board and worry
about the sync later. Nope. I don't have that much time.


Clapper boards are not just '1930s stuff' They also give a visual ident
of scene number etc.


I never got that. Here in the US, we have slates. In the UK you have
clappers. We have a PA doing the slating, but in the UK you have a
clapper girl. Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.


Best slate ever: http://www.panix.com/~kludge/lizard13.jpg
(It's an MOS slate without a clapstick though.)
--scott


;-)

Everything like that varies country by country as well as even between
companies.

Remember doing one shoot on video (so no clapper board) where the PA (or
rather script supervisor in the UK) logged the TC of each take. But the
editors still wanted a verbal ident on each take. And the boom op got this
job - as he was obviously always fairly close to a mic. And you wouldn't
believe how difficult it was for some to remember shot and take numbers.
;-)

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/10/2014 10:09 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.


Isn't that a brand of baking powder?



Only at Jerry Clower concerts.

--
Les Cargill

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
On 11/10/2014 10:09 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.


Isn't that a brand of baking powder?


That's Clabber Girl, you dolt.


Can the Clabber Girl clobber the clapper girl?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ...
William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
On 11/10/2014 10:09 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Sometimes the clapper girl is a young man.


Isn't that a brand of baking powder?


That's Clabber Girl, you dolt.


Can the Clabber Girl clobber the clapper girl?


Yes, if she's distracted trying to turn on the lights.
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

On 11/11/2014 2:04 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Tobiah wrote:

They will stay in
sync for over an hour if both are digital recorders.


I assumed clock drift was going to be a problem. I'll
give it a go, since this doesn't have to be professional,
and I'm recording short individual pieces at home. I
suppose it's likely that the camera and my sound card will
keep pretty similar time. The camera will also be relatively
close to the instrument.


If you have a guide track on the camera, or you put slates on both beginning
and end, you can actually quantify the clock drift and see how bad it is
and thus compensate for it.

In reality, drift is pretty much not an issue... but I like to slate the end
just in case someday it is.
--scott


Clock drift is not usually an issue IF you substitute audio tracks and
are only
worried about lip sync.
It IS an issue if you need to mix the tracks and phase errors become
significant.

Trevor.


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

In article , Trevor wrote:
On 11/11/2014 2:04 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

In reality, drift is pretty much not an issue... but I like to slate the end
just in case someday it is.


Clock drift is not usually an issue IF you substitute audio tracks and
are only
worried about lip sync.
It IS an issue if you need to mix the tracks and phase errors become
significant.


That's true. Don't do that.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

"Scott Dorsey" skrev i en meddelelse
...

In article , Trevor
wrote:
On 11/11/2014 2:04 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:


In reality, drift is pretty much not an issue... but I like to slate the
end
just in case someday it is.


Clock drift is not usually an issue IF you substitute audio tracks and
are only
worried about lip sync.
It IS an issue if you need to mix the tracks and phase errors become
significant.


That's true. Don't do that.


After a microphone comparison, pair of omnis and pair of cardioids I tried
using the omni pair for ambience with a slight delay added. What I didn't
try was compensating for the drift via a stretch of one pair of audio files
and it was in the age of the P2-300 so it was not an attractive chore to
venture into. But without fixing the drift the maximum duration of stable
perspective was some three minutes with one mic pair recorded on one DAT and
the other on another, after about that long time the (fake) room size
perception changed to another size. Hmmm ... wondering whether those tapes
still will play back ....

--scott


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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Default Syncing audio and video for casual production

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:18:28 +1100, Trevor wrote:

On 11/11/2014 2:04 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Tobiah wrote:

They will stay in
sync for over an hour if both are digital recorders.

I assumed clock drift was going to be a problem. I'll
give it a go, since this doesn't have to be professional,
and I'm recording short individual pieces at home. I
suppose it's likely that the camera and my sound card will
keep pretty similar time. The camera will also be relatively
close to the instrument.


If you have a guide track on the camera, or you put slates on both beginning
and end, you can actually quantify the clock drift and see how bad it is
and thus compensate for it.

In reality, drift is pretty much not an issue... but I like to slate the end
just in case someday it is.
--scott


Clock drift is not usually an issue IF you substitute audio tracks and
are only
worried about lip sync.
It IS an issue if you need to mix the tracks and phase errors become
significant.

Trevor.


I have found that sync drifts in and out badly if I record sound at
44.1 and let the movie editing software convert it to 48kHz.
Recording at native 48kHz results in perfect sync.

d
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