I am currently considering the Legacy Classics. My room is about 20' by 25'
with vaulted ceilings. My equipment is a Rotel 1090 amp(380 watts per
channel) with a rotel pre-amp and cd player. I need some opinion on the
sound of these speakers. My biggest concern is a tight bass. Does anyone
know how these speakers compare to the Paradigm Studio 100's(any version) or
the PSB Stratus Gold? Any opinion on these speakers would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks
Randy

Arnii, did you see this?

I need some opinion on the
sound of [Legacy] speakers. My biggest concern is a tight bass. Does anyone
know how these speakers compare to the Paradigm Studio 100's(any version) or
the PSB Stratus Gold? Any opinion on these speakers would be greatly
appreciated.

Given™ how knowledgeable you are ;-) about audio, it would be criminal
of you to withhold your opinion.

And don't pretend you don't know the answer. You've imperiously claimed
to have supernal knowledge of audio hundreds of times. You've gone out
of your way to describe virtually every RAOer's knowledge as inferior to
yours. You've called us ignorant, uninformed, and uneducated. Only
somebody with truly comprehensive knowledge of the subject could make
such pronouncements. Unless you were lying, of course.....

So which is it, Turdy? Either you were lying, or you'll give this person
your magnificent and all-knowing opinion. One or the other.

"Randy and Michelle" wrote in message
news
I am currently considering the Legacy Classics. My room is about 20'
by 25' with vaulted ceilings. My equipment is a Rotel 1090 amp(380
watts per channel) with a rotel pre-amp and cd player. I need some
opinion on the sound of these speakers.


My biggest concern is a tight bass. Does anyone know how these speakers
compare to the Paradigm
Studio 100's(any version) or the PSB Stratus Gold? Any opinion on
these speakers would be greatly appreciated.

Some associates have Legacy Classics and like them very much.

The problem with granting a long-distance opinion about tight bass, is that
bass is highly dependent on subtle details about your room, and exactly
where in the room you place them. Any of the speakers you've mentioned cold
have great bass or rotten bass in a 20' by 25' room with vaulted ceilings
depending on how high those vaulted ceilings are, what the room surfaces are
made out of; number, size, location and construction details of any windows,
what furniture is in the room, etc. All of these speakers have great
potential, but how they work out for you is going to be highly dependent on
how hard and effectively you work at properly installing them.

I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who have
evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is the same,
Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but with their
cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound is artificial
and their efficiency is mediocre at best. They are universally
conceded to be power hogs. (Maybe why they haven't reissued the Allen
Organ tube amp, an underground tweak favorite.)

You could do worse but you could do better as well.

it's interesting to note, they are owned by Allen Organ in
Pennsylvania now and this has not proved AFAIK a synergistic
partnership. Their speaker expertise (sic) hasn't done a thing for
Allen Organ installations. I have parted out many of the old Allen
rotary speaker cabinets for their excellent-for-hi-fi tube amps and
the drivers which can be sold for guitar amp use: the design of the
rotary cabinet, though excellent from a mechanical aspect, sucked
sonically as compared to Don Leslie's.

George M. Middius wrote:



Arnii, did you see this?

I need some opinion on the
sound of [Legacy] speakers. My biggest concern is a tight bass. Does anyone
know how these speakers compare to the Paradigm Studio 100's(any version) or
the PSB Stratus Gold? Any opinion on these speakers would be greatly
appreciated.

Given™ how knowledgeable you are ;-) about audio, it would be criminal
of you to withhold your opinion.

And don't pretend you don't know the answer. You've imperiously claimed
to have supernal knowledge of audio hundreds of times. You've gone out
of your way to describe virtually every RAOer's knowledge as inferior to
yours. You've called us ignorant, uninformed, and uneducated. Only
somebody with truly comprehensive knowledge of the subject could make
such pronouncements. Unless you were lying, of course.....

So which is it, Turdy? Either you were lying, or you'll give this person
your magnificent and all-knowing opinion. One or the other.

George are you pretending above that Arnold Krueger has the same attitude toward audio that you toward wine ?
Are you insinuating that he doesn't really know what he is speaking about ? ;-)




----------
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George M. Middius wrote:



Arnii, did you see this?

I need some opinion on the
sound of [Legacy] speakers. My




----------
Sent via SPRACI - http://www.spraci.com/ - Parties,Raves,Clubs,Festivals

George M. Middius wrote:



Arnii, did you see this?

I need some opinion on the
sound of [Legacy] speakers. My




----------
Sent via SPRACI - http://www.spraci.com/ - Parties,Raves,Clubs,Festivals

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who have
evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is the same,
Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but with their
cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound is artificial
and their efficiency is mediocre at best. They are universally
conceded to be power hogs.

Huh? Legacy are some of the most efficient speakers around. What are you
talking about?

"jeffc" wrote in message
m
wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who
have evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is the
same, Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but with
their cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound is
artificial and their efficiency is mediocre at best. They are
universally conceded to be power hogs.

Huh? Legacy are some of the most efficient speakers around. What
are you talking about?

Cal's audio world revolves around Klipsch La Scalas. Seriously. Pretty
nasty-sounding speakers by modern standards.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"jeffc" wrote in message
m
wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who
have evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is
the
same, Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but
with
their cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound is
artificial and their efficiency is mediocre at best. They are
universally conceded to be power hogs.

Huh? Legacy are some of the most efficient speakers around. What
are you talking about?

Cal's audio world revolves around Klipsch La Scalas. Seriously.
Pretty
nasty-sounding speakers by modern standards.



Pretty nasty-sounding by 30 year-old standards, too. Did we mention big
and ugly?


Funny how Cal dumps on modern PA amps but dotes on 45 year-old PA
speakers!

wrote in message
ups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"jeffc" wrote in message
m
wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who
have evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is
the same, Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but
with their cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound
is artificial and their efficiency is mediocre at best. They are
universally conceded to be power hogs.

Huh? Legacy are some of the most efficient speakers around. What
are you talking about?

Cal's audio world revolves around Klipsch La Scalas. Seriously.
Pretty nasty-sounding speakers by modern standards.

Pretty nasty-sounding by 30 year-old standards, too. Did we mention
big and ugly?

Apparently you can still buy them as new products, for about $4K a pair:

http://www.soundscapeav.com/klipsch/klipsch1.htm

However, the current La Scala seems to have a number of technical updates.
Unfortunately, those phenolic horn tweeter diaphragms position them as being
strictly on the cheap, no matter what price they sell for. Serious PA
speakers use horn drivers with aluminum or titaniam diaphragms.

Funny how Cal dumps on modern PA amps but dotes on 45 year-old PA
speakers!

La Scalas are not even good PA speakers. Too much of the legacy design is
left in place.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

La Scalas are not even good PA speakers. Too much of the legacy design is
left in place.

Twenty years ago I used La Scalas and a McIntosh 275 in a PA for a 1200
seat theater. Worked fine.

Stephen

Arny Krueger wrote (regarding the Klipsch LaScala):


snipped


Too much of the legacy design is
left in place.


My guess is that the appeal is to a nostalgia market, not technical
merit. I'm sure one could do worse for $4k a pair, but it isn't easy.

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

La Scalas are not even good PA speakers. Too much of the legacy
design is left in place.

Twenty years ago I used La Scalas and a McIntosh 275 in a PA for a
1200 seat theater. Worked fine.

There's no accounting for taste, or lack of it.

BTW the theater in downtown Pontiac when I was an undergraduate, was still
running one of the original circa-1930's sound systems complete with racks
of glowing 211s. I still remember watching Goldfinger there, as a first-run
movie. Worked fine. I have absolutely no idea why anybody ever bothered to
invent Dolby movie sound, etc. ;-)

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:03:40 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"jeffc" wrote in message
om
wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who
have evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is the
same, Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but with
their cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound is
artificial and their efficiency is mediocre at best. They are
universally conceded to be power hogs.

Huh? Legacy are some of the most efficient speakers around. What
are you talking about?

Cal's audio world revolves around Klipsch La Scalas. Seriously. Pretty
nasty-sounding speakers by modern standards.

Wrong - since this is stated as fact.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

La Scalas are not even good PA speakers. Too much of the legacy
design is left in place.

Twenty years ago I used La Scalas and a McIntosh 275 in a PA for a
1200 seat theater. Worked fine.

There's no accounting for taste, or lack of it.

Since you weren't there, the lack is yours.

BTW the theater in downtown Pontiac when I was an undergraduate, was still
running one of the original circa-1930's sound systems complete with racks
of glowing 211s. I still remember watching Goldfinger there, as a first-run
movie. Worked fine. I have absolutely no idea why anybody ever bothered to
invent Dolby movie sound, etc. ;-)

And acoustic records have a special quality electronic recordings miss.

Movies had potentially good sound before Dolby, as shown by recordings
on Command Classics and Mercury.

Stephen

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

La Scalas are not even good PA speakers. Too much of the legacy
design is left in place.

Twenty years ago I used La Scalas and a McIntosh 275 in a PA for a
1200 seat theater. Worked fine.

There's no accounting for taste, or lack of it.

Since you weren't there, the lack is yours.

Wrong again. If the theatre advertised a certain concert pianist but put up
a performance of chopsticks by some unpracticed 6-year-old, taste would not
be involved.

It's well known that speakers that sound like crap in the living room can
pass in large rooms. It won't be up to modern standard, but it can be fairly
unobjectionable, especially to the general public or for making a few
announcements.

BTW the theater in downtown Pontiac when I was an undergraduate, was
still running one of the original circa-1930's sound systems
complete with racks of glowing 211s. I still remember watching
Goldfinger there, as a first-run movie. Worked fine. I have
absolutely no idea why anybody ever bothered to invent Dolby movie
sound, etc. ;-)

And acoustic records have a special quality electronic recordings
miss.

Yes - those *special* properties include noise, distortion, absence of
dynamic range and poor frequency response. And, that's just in comparison to
a LP. If you're talking digital the comparison makes the acoustic record
seem even more horrific.

Movies had potentially good sound before Dolby, as shown by recordings
on Command Classics and Mercury.

Not as long as they relied on optical sound tracks. Again we're talking
about flawed technology that is so flawed it even makes sonic crap like the
vinyl LP sound pretty good.

MINe 109 wrote:
And acoustic records have a special quality electronic recordings
miss.

Many agree with you here. In fact Nimbus put out a series of
CDs of historical recordings that were recorded from the horn
of an acoustic gramophone playing the original 78s. A very
interesting idea, though I am sure that someone will jump in
to claim that this "proves" that a CD can accurately
reprduce the sound of that gramophone.

Movies had potentially good sound before Dolby, as shown by
recordings on Command Classics and Mercury.

20 years ago I went to a private screening of "Carmen Jones,"
which I believe was the first major movie to have a true stereo
soundtrack. Optical soundtrack and horn cinema sound
notwithstanding, the overall sound from what I understood to
be a new print made for the movie's 30th anniversary, was
terrific, with low noise and wide dynamic range.

Many of the early Cinerama movies were recorded with
true stereo techniques, BTW, not the multimono that
is ubiquitous today.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

In article .com,
"John Atkinson" wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:
And acoustic records have a special quality electronic recordings
miss.

Many agree with you here. In fact Nimbus put out a series of
CDs of historical recordings that were recorded from the horn
of an acoustic gramophone playing the original 78s. A very
interesting idea, though I am sure that someone will jump in
to claim that this "proves" that a CD can accurately
reprduce the sound of that gramophone.

Yes, I have a bunch of the Prima Voce series, mostly old-time opera
singers like Rosa Ponselle, Amelita Galli-Curci, etc. They are
controversial in classical collector circles, but I find them enjoyable.

Here's a message from a fan of acoustics that explains some of the
special qualities:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ordings/msg/d8
24dd2e6599f8d1?dmode=source

or

http://tinyurl.com/5z7c9

Movies had potentially good sound before Dolby, as shown by
recordings on Command Classics and Mercury.

20 years ago I went to a private screening of "Carmen Jones,"
which I believe was the first major movie to have a true stereo
soundtrack. Optical soundtrack and horn cinema sound
notwithstanding, the overall sound from what I understood to
be a new print made for the movie's 30th anniversary, was
terrific, with low noise and wide dynamic range.

Many of the early Cinerama movies were recorded with
true stereo techniques, BTW, not the multimono that
is ubiquitous today.

You mean older technology could have superior results? :-)

Considering how bad the sound quality at my local cinemas is, I would
welcome a little tubey high frequency attenuation at times.

Stephen

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

La Scalas are not even good PA speakers. Too much of the legacy
design is left in place.

Twenty years ago I used La Scalas and a McIntosh 275 in a PA for a
1200 seat theater. Worked fine.

There's no accounting for taste, or lack of it.

Since you weren't there, the lack is yours.

Wrong again. If the theatre advertised a certain concert pianist but put up
a performance of chopsticks by some unpracticed 6-year-old, taste would not
be involved.

You mean that if you play a recording of a certain concert pianist
through La Scalas, they produce the sound of an unpracticed 6-year-old
performing "Chopsticks"?

Wow.

It's well known that speakers that sound like crap in the living room can
pass in large rooms. It won't be up to modern standard, but it can be fairly
unobjectionable, especially to the general public or for making a few
announcements.

BTW the theater in downtown Pontiac when I was an undergraduate, was
still running one of the original circa-1930's sound systems
complete with racks of glowing 211s. I still remember watching
Goldfinger there, as a first-run movie. Worked fine. I have
absolutely no idea why anybody ever bothered to invent Dolby movie
sound, etc. ;-)

And acoustic records have a special quality electronic recordings
miss.

Yes - those *special* properties include noise, distortion, absence of
dynamic range and poor frequency response. And, that's just in comparison to
a LP. If you're talking digital the comparison makes the acoustic record
seem even more horrific.

Yes, good sound despite all that.

Movies had potentially good sound before Dolby, as shown by recordings
on Command Classics and Mercury.

Not as long as they relied on optical sound tracks. Again we're talking
about flawed technology that is so flawed it even makes sonic crap like the
vinyl LP sound pretty good.

I dunno. There are some good-sounding 35-mm mastered recordings out
there.

Stephen

MINe 109 wrote:
I have a bunch of the Prima Voce series, mostly old-time opera
singers like Rosa Ponselle, Amelita Galli-Curci, etc. They are
controversial in classical collector circles, but I find them
enjoyable.

Here's a message from a fan of acoustics that explains some of
the special qualities:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...1?dmode=source

Thanks very much. A fascinating post. I keep meaning to buy some
of these CDs.

Considering how bad the sound quality at my local cinemas is, I
would welcome a little tubey high frequency attenuation at times.

It's probably not relevant, but the last cinema I had a look
around the back at, a few years ago, was using racks of QSC
amplifiers. :-)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Here's a message from a fan of acoustics that explains some of the
special qualities:


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ordings/msg/d8
24dd2e6599f8d1?dmode=source


Many of the early Cinerama movies were recorded with
true stereo techniques, BTW, not the multimono that
is ubiquitous today.

You mean older technology could have superior results? :-)

Considering how bad the sound quality at my local cinemas is, I would

welcome a little tubey high frequency attenuation at times.

Historically, the film people had better sound than the audio people.
Most (indeed almost all) of the classic WE theater gear that wasn't
destroyed at the end of its lease is now in Japan. Despite poor
bandpass and high THD measurements it usually sounded pretty good. FWIW
the WE91 was intended primarily as a monitor amp for the projectionist,
all the amps for actual public playback were push-pull and most had
moderate NFB.

Most people don't buy them new, and some discounting is involved when
they do anyway. However I agree that they are overpriced and that for
that price Klipsch should upgrade them. However getting a repro cabinet
built looks like doing so and providing your own drivers and x/o is not
going to be terribly cheap either. Plans for both the LaScala and
Klipschhorn are out there, if anyone knows a shop that will build
LaScala cabs for much under a grand apiece (using quality materials)
please let me know.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited Legacy in Springfield, Ill. I know many people who have
evaluated and listened to Legacy speakers. Their opinion is the same,
Legacy features beautiful woodwork and quality parts but with their
cornucopia of drivers and complex networking the sound is artificial
and their efficiency is mediocre at best.

You are an idiot.

Cheers,

Margaret