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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Les Cargill wrote:
I still use an ancient and venerable DAW, n-Track 3.0. Yes, I can upgrade it but haven't. I also use Reaper a bit. Reaper is, IMO, much more poorly adapted for tracking than is n-Track. It even has an old defect I reported to them years ago still - you cannot set the master channel up to where the final level is pre-master-F/X so you can use a final limiter to adjust the crest factor of a mix. My basis in comparison is the Terratec EWS88/D, which exhibits none of these problems. On both cards, I use the ASIO drivers. Yes, Focusrite support has been emailed... Here are the pathologies from the Scarlett. - n-Track refuses to allow any DirectX plugins unless I set the buffering in n-Track way up. This does not happen on the ASIO drivers of the EWS88/D. There appears to be some sort of resource constraint hit when the plugin tries to negotiate being inserted. It may also be a basic incompatibility with DirectX versions, although agan, the EWS88/D works. - You can select whether a pair of inputs on the 18i20 produce two mono tracks or one stereo* track. If you select some pairs as mono pairs and others as stereo, the driver may apparently reject an "open" ioctl() for input pair. This again only happens in the ancient version of n-Track. *meaning "two channel" of course... The real answer is likely to be "stop using all that old cruft". Yes, but... it works with the EWS88/D... -- Les Cargill There's a serious Repear forum at PRW: http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.c...REAPER-Refugee -Camp-hosted-by-Jim-Blair#.UnaCc42Wa8M -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
hank alrich wrote:
Les Cargill wrote: I still use an ancient and venerable DAW, n-Track 3.0. Yes, I can upgrade it but haven't. I also use Reaper a bit. Reaper is, IMO, much more poorly adapted for tracking than is n-Track. It even has an old defect I reported to them years ago still - you cannot set the master channel up to where the final level is pre-master-F/X so you can use a final limiter to adjust the crest factor of a mix. My basis in comparison is the Terratec EWS88/D, which exhibits none of these problems. On both cards, I use the ASIO drivers. Yes, Focusrite support has been emailed... Here are the pathologies from the Scarlett. - n-Track refuses to allow any DirectX plugins unless I set the buffering in n-Track way up. This does not happen on the ASIO drivers of the EWS88/D. There appears to be some sort of resource constraint hit when the plugin tries to negotiate being inserted. It may also be a basic incompatibility with DirectX versions, although agan, the EWS88/D works. - You can select whether a pair of inputs on the 18i20 produce two mono tracks or one stereo* track. If you select some pairs as mono pairs and others as stereo, the driver may apparently reject an "open" ioctl() for input pair. This again only happens in the ancient version of n-Track. *meaning "two channel" of course... The real answer is likely to be "stop using all that old cruft". Yes, but... it works with the EWS88/D... -- Les Cargill There's a serious Repear forum at PRW: http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.c...REAPER-Refugee -Camp-hosted-by-Jim-Blair#.UnaCc42Wa8M Reaper is good stuff but it would require two or three additional minutes per setup given my workflow. I still use Reaper for cue mixes while I am tracking with n-Track. The additional "two or three minutes" have to do with the hoops you have to jump through to get a metronome up, plus a few other bizarre behavioral issues. It's just a lot more fidgety and really has a lot of features I don't need. IOW, I still have learning curve with it. With this setup, Reaper *works*. It's the old DAW - n-Track 3.0 - that hath issues. But the ASIO drivers for the EWS88/D *do not* cause these problems. I can ( and probably will ) upgrade n-Track soon, but my experience is that you cannot have two versions of n-Track on the same machine, so that makes it something I have to plan for, not just do. If Focusrite would offer 32-bit version of their drivers, I could simply do everything in a VM of XP or Win2K and be done with it. I could track in one VM and mix in another. Indeed, I kind of do that now with n-Track. I seriously doubt the driver-writers at Focusrite can reproduce these issues, unless they have this old software, which is no longer available. Maybe they could cut a deal with FASoft; I dunno. Technically, I cannot send this software to them. -- Les Cargill |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 11/4/2013 12:31 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
- n-Track refuses to allow any DirectX plugins unless I set the buffering in n-Track way up. This does not happen on the ASIO drivers of the EWS88/D. There appears to be some sort of resource constraint hit when the plugin tries to negotiate being inserted. It may also be a basic incompatibility with DirectX versions, although agan, the EWS88/D works. I hate when that happens. There's really no way you can figure out exactly what's going on and to fix it. But then what fun could we have if all programs and drivers worked the same? So why do you want to switch from the EWS88/D? I have a Focusrite 18i8 here for a review at the moment, however without an old version of N-Track and your DX plug-ins I can't attempt to duplicate it. These days when I review an interface, I check it with Reaper, Studio One and Pro Tools 10 and usually set the buffer about to the middle of its range. I think I have the Focusrite currently set for 4 ms. I don't really care what the latency is as long as the buffer is big enough so that I don't have clicks in the recording. With these interfaces (and with my own working set with an analog console) there's no reason to send the input audio out to the computer and back for monitoring. Latency compensation works with all of those programs so regardless of the buffer size (and hence latency) overdubs come out where they should. But I fully understand the value of your own personal working style, which may be resistant to change. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Les Cargill said...news:l5610v$10v$1@dont-
email.me: hank alrich wrote: Les Cargill wrote: I still use an ancient and venerable DAW, n-Track 3.0. Yes, I can upgrade it but haven't. I also use Reaper a bit. Reaper is, IMO, much more poorly adapted for tracking than is n-Track. It even has an old defect I reported to them years ago still - you cannot set the master channel up to where the final level is pre-master-F/X so you can use a final limiter to adjust the crest factor of a mix. My basis in comparison is the Terratec EWS88/D, which exhibits none of these problems. On both cards, I use the ASIO drivers. Yes, Focusrite support has been emailed... Here are the pathologies from the Scarlett. - n-Track refuses to allow any DirectX plugins unless I set the buffering in n-Track way up. This does not happen on the ASIO drivers of the EWS88/D. There appears to be some sort of resource constraint hit when the plugin tries to negotiate being inserted. It may also be a basic incompatibility with DirectX versions, although agan, the EWS88/D works. - You can select whether a pair of inputs on the 18i20 produce two mono tracks or one stereo* track. If you select some pairs as mono pairs and others as stereo, the driver may apparently reject an "open" ioctl() for input pair. This again only happens in the ancient version of n-Track. *meaning "two channel" of course... The real answer is likely to be "stop using all that old cruft". Yes, but... it works with the EWS88/D... -- Les Cargill There's a serious Repear forum at PRW: http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.c...REAPER-Refugee -Camp-hosted-by-Jim-Blair#.UnaCc42Wa8M Reaper is good stuff but it would require two or three additional minutes per setup given my workflow. I still use Reaper for cue mixes while I am tracking with n-Track. The additional "two or three minutes" have to do with the hoops you have to jump through to get a metronome up, plus a few other bizarre behavioral issues. It's just a lot more fidgety and really has a lot of features I don't need. IOW, I still have learning curve with it. With this setup, Reaper *works*. It's the old DAW - n-Track 3.0 - that hath issues. But the ASIO drivers for the EWS88/D *do not* cause these problems. I can ( and probably will ) upgrade n-Track soon, but my experience is that you cannot have two versions of n-Track on the same machine, so that makes it something I have to plan for, not just do. If Focusrite would offer 32-bit version of their drivers, I could simply do everything in a VM of XP or Win2K and be done with it. I could track in one VM and mix in another. Indeed, I kind of do that now with n-Track. I seriously doubt the driver-writers at Focusrite can reproduce these issues, unless they have this old software, which is no longer available. Maybe they could cut a deal with FASoft; I dunno. Technically, I cannot send this software to them. -- Les Cargill I looked at the n-Track downloads section and saw they have versions 1.3.3 , 2.3, 3.3, and up, readily available. Send them a link, but they'll have to register. david |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 04 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro: I still use an ancient and venerable DAW, n-Track 3.0. Yes, I can upgrade it but haven't. I also use Reaper a bit. Reaper is, IMO, much more poorly adapted for tracking than is n-Track. It even has an old defect I reported to them years ago still - you cannot set the master channel up to where the final level is pre-master-F/X so you can use a final limiter to adjust the crest factor of a mix. I don't consider that a "defect". It seems to be a design decision. There are any number of workarounds. Mine is to leave the Master Volume at 0 and adjust the gain and output levels in the limiting plugin. You could also set up another track with the limiter on it, feed all your tracks into that, then send that track to the Master. I think Reaper is quite excellent. That one niggle shouldn't be a reason to avoid it. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 03 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro: Reaper is good stuff but it would require two or three additional minutes per setup given my workflow. Consider templates. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Nil wrote:
On 03 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in rec.audio.pro: Reaper is good stuff but it would require two or three additional minutes per setup given my workflow. Consider templates. Agreed; I need to follow up on that. -- Les Cargill |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Les Cargill wrote:
Nil wrote: On 03 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in rec.audio.pro: Reaper is good stuff but it would require two or three additional minutes per setup given my workflow. Consider templates. Agreed; I need to follow up on that. It's how I deal with Logic. If I had to start from scratch every time I'd do something else. I have a small collection of templates that make for quick iteration of my most common configurations. -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/4/2013 12:31 AM, Les Cargill wrote: - n-Track refuses to allow any DirectX plugins unless I set the buffering in n-Track way up. This does not happen on the ASIO drivers of the EWS88/D. There appears to be some sort of resource constraint hit when the plugin tries to negotiate being inserted. It may also be a basic incompatibility with DirectX versions, although agan, the EWS88/D works. I hate when that happens. There's really no way you can figure out exactly what's going on and to fix it. But then what fun could we have if all programs and drivers worked the same? So why do you want to switch from the EWS88/D? The only *tactical* thing is that it would free up the ADAT I/O for expansion or for connecting to an ADAT-enabled synth. I rather like having the synth connected optically. Breathes new life into it. Other than that, I might have well have not bought the Sapphire at all - I already had an ADA8000 that would have utilized the EWS88/D. But it should work. That's the point... It's very close. I have a Focusrite 18i8 here for a review at the moment, however without an old version of N-Track and your DX plug-ins I can't attempt to duplicate it. These days when I review an interface, I check it with Reaper, Studio One and Pro Tools 10 and usually set the buffer about to the middle of its range. I think I have the Focusrite currently set for 4 ms. Other than this issue, it works at 1 msec set latency, for a full round trip actual latency of 10msec. 10 msec turns out not to be a problem. Yes, I was surprised as well. You get plugins in the cue mix as well. And I expect at some point, they'll add some sort of insert capability to MixControl - make it a VST host or something*. Maybe not. But I still have MixControl for zero latency monitoring... *yes, I know MixControl is just control, not mixing - the mixer is on the DSP inside the Scarlett.... still... I don't really care what the latency is as long as the buffer is big enough so that I don't have clicks in the recording. With these interfaces (and with my own working set with an analog console) I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. there's no reason to send the input audio out to the computer and back for monitoring. Latency compensation works with all of those programs so regardless of the buffer size (and hence latency) overdubs come out where they should. Yep. But I'd like to use the Sapphire for that rather than having to find, place and cable up a console. Or buy another VF16/VF160. I can remount the Scarlett... But I fully understand the value of your own personal working style, which may be resistant to change. It's beyond resistant to change. But it's been polished over ten or years of actual practice now. And it's not like the lost time is important; it's just irritating. I just need to continue learning Reaper. It's rather large. -- Les Cargill |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Nil wrote:
On 04 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in rec.audio.pro: I still use an ancient and venerable DAW, n-Track 3.0. Yes, I can upgrade it but haven't. I also use Reaper a bit. Reaper is, IMO, much more poorly adapted for tracking than is n-Track. It even has an old defect I reported to them years ago still - you cannot set the master channel up to where the final level is pre-master-F/X so you can use a final limiter to adjust the crest factor of a mix. I don't consider that a "defect". It seems to be a design decision. I understand. Still. There are any number of workarounds. Sure there are. Legions. Mine is to leave the Master Volume at 0 and adjust the gain and output levels in the limiting plugin. Yep. You could also set up another track with the limiter on it, feed all your tracks into that, then send that track to the Master. I think Reaper is quite excellent. That one niggle shouldn't be a reason to avoid it. It's not, although I use that feature of n-Track considerably - I'll adjust the master knob to tune the crest factor when mixing. Yes, I'll try to get a common crest factor between songs on an album rather than Ouiji board it. Horrors FWIW, that usually means a *higher* crest factor - less compressed. I target -15dB around now; much lower than commercial releases. Some songs, it doesn't matter. That usually means the final limiter barely touches the mix. -- Les Cargill |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
I still use an ancient and venerable DAW, n-Track 3.0. Yes, I can upgrade it but haven't. I also use Reaper a bit. Reaper is, IMO, much more poorly adapted for tracking than is n-Track. It even has an old defect I reported to them years ago still - you cannot set the master channel up to where the final level is pre-master-F/X so you can use a final limiter to adjust the crest factor of a mix. My basis in comparison is the Terratec EWS88/D, which exhibits none of these problems. On both cards, I use the ASIO drivers. Yes, Focusrite support has been emailed... Here are the pathologies from the Scarlett. - n-Track refuses to allow any DirectX plugins unless I set the buffering in n-Track way up. This does not happen on the ASIO drivers of the EWS88/D. There appears to be some sort of resource constraint hit when the plugin tries to negotiate being inserted. It may also be a basic incompatibility with DirectX versions, although agan, the EWS88/D works. - You can select whether a pair of inputs on the 18i20 produce two mono tracks or one stereo* track. If you select some pairs as mono pairs and others as stereo, the driver may apparently reject an "open" ioctl() for input pair. This again only happens in the ancient version of n-Track. *meaning "two channel" of course... The real answer is likely to be "stop using all that old cruft". Yes, but... it works with the EWS88/D... -- Les Cargill |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 11/3/2013 11:39 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. I won't work in a place where there's no space for a console. A real console is so much than a virtual console if you're actually operating it. If all you want is a signal router, then using a computer for "mixing" is just fine. If everybody had a console, we'd have fewer misunderstandings about how to make the signal go where you want it to go. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Neil Gould wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: On 11/3/2013 11:39 PM, Les Cargill wrote: I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. I won't work in a place where there's no space for a console. A real console is so much than a virtual console if you're actually operating it. If all you want is a signal router, then using a computer for "mixing" is just fine. If everybody had a console, we'd have fewer misunderstandings about how to make the signal go where you want it to go. Could it be that you're presuming much about what has constituted a "console" over the last decade or two? ;-) These days, signal routing is not one of the more transparent "console" operations. Sadly, this is true. But, by the same token, I have worked in some places with consoles where the patchbay wiring was confusing at best, and often just plain broken. So the fact that you have to dig down through six menus on the console to find out that the insert output on this channel strip has been patched with a compressor into that buss does not make such confusion unique to the digital world. But what IS possible in the digital console world is a complete reset to zero state with the touch of a few buttons. (On the other hand, I have also had the console resetted inadvertently too, which was very very bad.) --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/3/2013 11:39 PM, Les Cargill wrote: I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. I won't work in a place where there's no space for a console. A real console is so much than a virtual console if you're actually operating it. If all you want is a signal router, then using a computer for "mixing" is just fine. If everybody had a console, we'd have fewer misunderstandings about how to make the signal go where you want it to go. Could it be that you're presuming much about what has constituted a "console" over the last decade or two? ;-) These days, signal routing is not one of the more transparent "console" operations. -- best regards, Neil |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/3/2013 11:39 PM, Les Cargill wrote: I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. I won't work in a place where there's no space for a console. I have space for a *small* one, probably with a ZED-R16 at the upper limit of what I could place. But now I use that space for something else. I'd love to have a nice console, but it's nicer to have alternatives. And I'd rather either not spend that $2k ( which is a good deal, don't get me wrong ) or spend it on instruments. I have no interest in hanging out a shingle as a recordist for now. Recording is part of the music process, not a thing unto itself for me. And I can point you at a half dozen people for whom it *is* that. A real console is so much than a virtual console if you're actually operating it. I kinda don't. I don't move stuff during a mix that much. Maybe bring up solos and such. The thing I miss most on consoles is mutes. If all you want is a signal router, then using a computer for "mixing" is just fine. Right. If everybody had a console, we'd have fewer misunderstandings about how to make the signal go where you want it to go. Probably. -- Les Cargill |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: On 11/3/2013 11:39 PM, Les Cargill wrote: I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. I won't work in a place where there's no space for a console. A real console is so much than a virtual console if you're actually operating it. If all you want is a signal router, then using a computer for "mixing" is just fine. If everybody had a console, we'd have fewer misunderstandings about how to make the signal go where you want it to go. Could it be that you're presuming much about what has constituted a "console" over the last decade or two? ;-) These days, signal routing is not one of the more transparent "console" operations. Sadly, this is true. But, by the same token, I have worked in some places with consoles where the patchbay wiring was confusing at best, and often just plain broken. So the fact that you have to dig down through six menus on the console to find out that the insert output on this channel strip has been patched with a compressor into that buss does not make such confusion unique to the digital world. But what IS possible in the digital console world is a complete reset to zero state with the touch of a few buttons. (On the other hand, I have also had the console resetted inadvertently too, which was very very bad.) --scott Aren't those "quick keys" wonderous?!? In general, I much prefer the digital routing to patch bays any day; no more cleaning jacks and plugs! And the far greater routing flexibility with far lower risk of damage is also a welcome feature. Win-win, AFAIC, but it does make work-spaces rather unique. -- best regards, Neil |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
"Neil Gould" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: Neil Gould wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: On 11/3/2013 11:39 PM, Les Cargill wrote: I gotta say - using Reaper for a cue mix is pretty cool. It saves the space of a console. I won't work in a place where there's no space for a console. A real console is so much than a virtual console if you're actually operating it. If all you want is a signal router, then using a computer for "mixing" is just fine. If everybody had a console, we'd have fewer misunderstandings about how to make the signal go where you want it to go. Could it be that you're presuming much about what has constituted a "console" over the last decade or two? ;-) These days, signal routing is not one of the more transparent "console" operations. Sadly, this is true. But, by the same token, I have worked in some places with consoles where the patchbay wiring was confusing at best, and often just plain broken. So the fact that you have to dig down through six menus on the console to find out that the insert output on this channel strip has been patched with a compressor into that buss does not make such confusion unique to the digital world. But what IS possible in the digital console world is a complete reset to zero state with the touch of a few buttons. (On the other hand, I have also had the console resetted inadvertently too, which was very very bad.) --scott Aren't those "quick keys" wonderous?!? In general, I much prefer the digital routing to patch bays any day; no more cleaning jacks and plugs! And the far greater routing flexibility with far lower risk of damage is also a welcome feature. Win-win, AFAIC, but it does make work-spaces rather unique. +1! Poly |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 11/4/2013 12:09 PM, Neil Gould wrote:
Could it be that you're presuming much about what has constituted a "console" over the last decade or two? ;-) These days, signal routing is not one of the more transparent "console" operations. Low cost digital consoles? At least they have faders, but I get your point. Recently, PreSonus asked me for permission to use a few articles I had written for them as handouts at their user's conference last year. One was on signal flow and tracing it by learning how to read a block diagram. It was originally an article for Recording Magazine a dozen or so years ago and was based around a Mackie mixer. They liked the idea then, but decided it wouldn't be a good idea to put it on their web site. |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 11/4/2013 3:31 PM, Neil Gould wrote:
In general, I much prefer the digital routing to patch bays any day; no more cleaning jacks and plugs! And the far greater routing flexibility with far lower risk of damage is also a welcome feature. Win-win, AFAIC, but it does make work-spaces rather unique. I have to think too hard in order to do anything that involves a mouse or menu. I've never felt a need for more flexibility, and a can of DeOxit is always within reach of the patchbay. Patchbays do need some thought and occasionally need to be modified to accommodate new equipment or different ways of working, but I find that to be easier, and more important, more permanently fixed in my brain than trying to imagine my way through a menu or reading tiny little legends on the computer screen. |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 11/4/2013 1:38 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
I have space for a *small* one, probably with a ZED-R16 at the upper limit of what I could place. But now I use that space for something else. That's what happens when you let space go unoccupied for a few days. I'd love to have a nice console, but it's nicer to have alternatives. And I'd rather either not spend that $2k ( which is a good deal, don't get me wrong ) or spend it on instruments. I still have the $7500 console that I bought in 1985. I'd like to replace it with one that's quieter now that I don't have tape hiss, but while I have a bunch of Mackies that sound fine, none of them are real multitrack recording consoles unless I mate the 1640i with a computer. |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/4/2013 12:09 PM, Neil Gould wrote: Could it be that you're presuming much about what has constituted a "console" over the last decade or two? ;-) These days, signal routing is not one of the more transparent "console" operations. Low cost digital consoles? At least they have faders, but I get your point. Well, "low cost" is relative. Compared to a pro-level 24-channel console of the '70s, just about every 24+ channel console one can buy today is low cost! Recently, PreSonus asked me for permission to use a few articles I had written for them as handouts at their user's conference last year. One was on signal flow and tracing it by learning how to read a block diagram. It was originally an article for Recording Magazine a dozen or so years ago and was based around a Mackie mixer. They liked the idea then, but decided it wouldn't be a good idea to put it on their web site. Sounds like they opted out of being relevent? -- best regards, Neil |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
On 11/5/2013 10:22 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Well, "low cost" is relative. Compared to a pro-level 24-channel console of the '70s, just about every 24+ channel console one can buy today is low cost! I was trying not to name names, but I was thinking Behringer or PreSonus. A new Allen & Heath GS-R24 without automation or digital I/O costs about the same number of dollars today as my Soundcraft 600 cost in 1986. To most people today, $7,000-$8,000 isn't low cost, but $3,000 isn't unreasonable for anyone not committed to working entirely in the box.. |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/5/2013 10:22 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Well, "low cost" is relative. Compared to a pro-level 24-channel console of the '70s, just about every 24+ channel console one can buy today is low cost! I was trying not to name names, but I was thinking Behringer or PreSonus. A new Allen & Heath GS-R24 without automation or digital I/O costs about the same number of dollars today as my Soundcraft 600 cost in 1986. To most people today, $7,000-$8,000 isn't low cost, but $3,000 isn't unreasonable for anyone not committed to working entirely in the box.. The ZED-R16 is a very good deal - it's only $2k. It's not just a mixer, it's an audio interface, ADAT lightpipe host and a control surface. I dern near went that way, but I wanted to try the "DAW as cue mixer" thing first. And, frankly, $500 is a lot easier than $2k. The Presonus stuff is kind a off-putting. -- Les Cargill |
#24
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Les Cargill wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: On 11/5/2013 10:22 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Well, "low cost" is relative. Compared to a pro-level 24-channel console of the '70s, just about every 24+ channel console one can buy today is low cost! I was trying not to name names, but I was thinking Behringer or PreSonus. A new Allen & Heath GS-R24 without automation or digital I/O costs about the same number of dollars today as my Soundcraft 600 cost in 1986. To most people today, $7,000-$8,000 isn't low cost, but $3,000 isn't unreasonable for anyone not committed to working entirely in the box.. The ZED-R16 is a very good deal - it's only $2k. It's not just a mixer, it's an audio interface, ADAT lightpipe host and a control surface. I dern near went that way, but I wanted to try the "DAW as cue mixer" thing first. And, frankly, $500 is a lot easier than $2k. The Presonus stuff is kind a off-putting. Last year we used their StudioLive 24:4:2 for the music festival embedded in the Armadillo Christmas Bazaar. My team of young mixers (they're all quite good) wanted outboard for the stage monitors, but otherwise, as long as we didn't ask too much fro the preamps the board worked really well. The preamp is a bit wimpy. It's one of those fine examples that specs are often not the whole story. It has enough busses for us to cover FOH, four stage mixes, a distro mix to flown speakers covering the arts and crafts fair, another mix for the foyer to greet folks when they arrive, etc. Ray Benson has a club now in Austin, The Rattle Inn, with a Presonus console. Jim Finney, long time pal the preampand FOH/road mgr for Asleep at the Wheel, says Ray's voice "blows up", especially when they kick into "Route 66". He carries a good outboard pre for Ray. -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
hank alrich wrote:
Les Cargill wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: On 11/5/2013 10:22 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Well, "low cost" is relative. Compared to a pro-level 24-channel console of the '70s, just about every 24+ channel console one can buy today is low cost! I was trying not to name names, but I was thinking Behringer or PreSonus. A new Allen & Heath GS-R24 without automation or digital I/O costs about the same number of dollars today as my Soundcraft 600 cost in 1986. To most people today, $7,000-$8,000 isn't low cost, but $3,000 isn't unreasonable for anyone not committed to working entirely in the box.. The ZED-R16 is a very good deal - it's only $2k. It's not just a mixer, it's an audio interface, ADAT lightpipe host and a control surface. I dern near went that way, but I wanted to try the "DAW as cue mixer" thing first. And, frankly, $500 is a lot easier than $2k. The Presonus stuff is kind a off-putting. Last year we used their StudioLive 24:4:2 for the music festival embedded in the Armadillo Christmas Bazaar. My team of young mixers (they're all quite good) wanted outboard for the stage monitors, but otherwise, as long as we didn't ask too much fro the preamps the board worked really well. The preamp is a bit wimpy. It's one of those fine examples that specs are often not the whole story. Yeah, I just dunno about digital mixers in general. They have maybe ten good years in 'em. It has enough busses for us to cover FOH, four stage mixes, a distro mix to flown speakers covering the arts and crafts fair, another mix for the foyer to greet folks when they arrive, etc. This is true - it has scads of routing. Ray Benson has a club now in Austin, The Rattle Inn, with a Presonus console. Jim Finney, long time pal the preampand FOH/road mgr for Asleep at the Wheel, says Ray's voice "blows up", especially when they kick into "Route 66". He carries a good outboard pre for Ray. -- Les Cargill |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Complaints with the Scarlett 18i20 (so far - nothing huge).
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/5/2013 10:22 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Well, "low cost" is relative. Compared to a pro-level 24-channel console of the '70s, just about every 24+ channel console one can buy today is low cost! I was trying not to name names, but I was thinking Behringer or PreSonus. Yeah, me too. I was thinking SpectraSonics, etc. A new Allen & Heath GS-R24 without automation or digital I/O costs about the same number of dollars today as my Soundcraft 600 cost in 1986. To most people today, $7,000-$8,000 isn't low cost, but $3,000 isn't unreasonable for anyone not committed to working entirely in the box.. Which wouldn't buy one channel strip of the consoles I was referring to... ;-) -- best regards, Neil |
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