Anyone out there with a Scully 16 or 24 track 280 series? Not the model
100

Thirdstage wrote:
Anyone out there with a Scully 16 or 24 track 280 series? Not the model
100

I've worked on a 270B with the 2" stack (that's the 14" version), and I
probably still have manuals. Why do you ask?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I have a 12 track one inch 280. I use to have a model 100 16 track. I
bought the 280 series cause I am a big Boston fan, and the 100 I didn't
trust because of the logic IC's. Not to mention I have never heard of
anything released on a model 100. I would just like another 2 inch. I
may go with an otari mtr90. I just picked up a spectra sonics 1024b
console. I will be wiring everything up in the loft of my pole barn as
soon as it gets warmer. I have a good start of equipment. I currently
have Scully 12 track 280, Spectra Sonics 1024B console, Soundtracs mrx
34 channel with patchbay console, couple of scully 280B 2 tracks,
lexicon reverb, Grommes g5m, ampex 351 2 track, DBX 160 vu, several
Rockman modules, Urei room eq's, EV sentry III studio monitors, Pioneer
spec 2 amp, Marantz cdr 615, Nakamichi 1000 cassette deck, RE20 mic,
SM57 mic, akg CE5-1 mic, RedBear MK120 tube amp, slingerland drum set,
epiphone les paul with super distortion pick ups, fannin acoustic
guitar, teisco bass, and a EMI BTR TYPE 4 tube 2 track that use to
belong to Johnny Mathis.( I am thinking of selling this one) and a RCA
RT-21 2 track (that is also for sale). I need a few more mics and alot
of wiring and I'll be on my way.

Actually I have a problem with the 12 track right now Scott. When I hit
play the pinch roller wont engage and it seems to go into FF. Any idea
what it is? I am thinking one of the relays. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks

Thirdstage wrote:
Actually I have a problem with the 12 track right now Scott. When I hit
play the pinch roller wont engage and it seems to go into FF. Any idea
what it is? I am thinking one of the relays. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks

The relays on those things are CONSTANTLY crapping out. Take them all
out and burnish the contacts.

Also, check the tape direction sensor. The direction sensor gets dirty
and this sort of thing happens, or worse.

These things are notorious for flaky and tape-damaging transport electronics.
When in doubt, switch the relays around and see if the symptoms change.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thirdstage wrote:

Actually I have a problem with the 12 track right now Scott. When I hit
play the pinch roller wont engage and it seems to go into FF. Any idea
what it is? I am thinking one of the relays. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks

LMAO !

You disregarded another model because you didn't trust the logic ICs and
now you have a *relay* problem !

Way too funny !

BTW - never heard of 12 tracks on 1 inch before.

Graham

Yeah logic IC's that have been discontinued for years. Have fun finding
them. There are no replacements. Not to mention it was a 2 head
machine. It was screwed up when I got it. A tech shorted a couple of
pins to give it a jump start and it worked. I never trusted it to last.
The 12 track is up and running again. It was the pinch roller arm. I
could move it manually when I hit start and it would work. After
recording a couple different parts it started working again.

You may not of heard of a 12 track, but you have heard what it sounds
like on one of the greatest albums of all time.(Boston's self titled
debut) Even then it was transferred to 2nd generation on a 24 track.
There are alot of Scully haters on this site, but that album speaks for
the machine.

I thought they had issues of pitch changing as the take-up reel filled
with tape. I bought this 12 track about 4 years ago when I sold the
100. It was the only 280 I could find. I has heard good things about
the 280's. That is why I bought the 12 track. I keep in contact with
Tom's company and they were talking about using my 12 track to transfer
a "Huge" inventory of 12 track tape. I was in search of a 280 16 track.
Which is why I posted this to begin with. Is it feasible to add
transformers to the MTR90? I still have a set of 32 transformers from
the model 100 parts machine I had. They just so happen to be the same
ones my Spectra Sonics console uses.

Thirdstage wrote:
I thought they had issues of pitch changing as the take-up reel filled
with tape.

Well, you could get an MCI and deal with their servo system. But just
about every analog recorder has some small speed variations throughout
the reel. It's mechanical. It's not anything to worry about, though.
People have interchanged tapes among machines for years and as long as
the equipment is well maintained, it's not a problem. Now if you really
want to fret about something, you can agonize over differences in audio
polarity among different manufacturers relative to magnetization on
tape. Put that in your worry-pipe and smoke it.

I keep in contact with
Tom's company and they were talking about using my 12 track to transfer
a "Huge" inventory of 12 track tape.

Sounds like a good use for it. Do you have an offer on the table? g

Is it feasible to add
transformers to the MTR90? I still have a set of 32 transformers from
the model 100 parts machine I had. They just so happen to be the same
ones my Spectra Sonics console uses.

You could always build them in a box with input and output connectors
and think of it as an outboard signal processing device. Patch one in
on channels where you think it makes things sound better. I don't think
it would be feasible to build them in to the MTR90 case, nor would it
be advisable. And it may not make any difference (or it may make it
sound worse). The input transformer in your console might be (and
probably is) all the transformer you'll need to get that warm fuzzy
sound.

They told me that they would be in talks with Sony. I guess about
paying for the first 2 albums. The rest of the unreleased stuff would
be coming out of their pockets I would imagine. Tom's studio tech was
supposed to get a hold of me last year and never did. I talked to my
contact that works for Tom and he said that they just haven't got
around to it. I was hoping that part of the offer would be Tom's 12
track. Which I was told is in pieces. I have a brand new set of NOS
heads that have never been mounted that I got from the guy at
nortronics.

Pooh Bear wrote:

BTW - never heard of 12 tracks on 1 inch before.

Frank Zappa used one. Apparently when they wanted to archive the
masters, they didn't have access to a machine in that format anymore and
had to use a 24-track Studer with home-made guideposts


Graham


--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=-
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Developing a U6/U7 clone http://ire.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)

I do know where an MX80 24 track is at. How are these sonically to the
Ampex and MTR90?

Pooh Bear wrote:

BTW - never heard of 12 tracks on 1 inch before.

It was the up and coming hot format for about six months or so. Three or
four studios invested in it, including Electric Ladyland, and then the
MM-1000 came out.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thirdstage wrote:
The 12 track is up and running again. It was the pinch roller arm. I
could move it manually when I hit start and it would work. After
recording a couple different parts it started working again.

Uhhh... when was the last time the arm was lubricated?

If this machine has not been torn down and lubed recently, at the VERY
LEAST please do all the motor bearings, the arm and solenoid, and the
pinch roller bearing. And clean and lube the scrape flutter idler.

What you describe is a symptom of a very poorly-kept machine.

You may not of heard of a 12 track, but you have heard what it sounds
like on one of the greatest albums of all time.(Boston's self titled
debut) Even then it was transferred to 2nd generation on a 24 track.
There are alot of Scully haters on this site, but that album speaks for
the machine.

Oh, there has been a lot of good work done on 280s. But there's also
been a lot of good work LOST on 280s as well when the transports went
wonky and spewed tape all over the room.

Trust me, after you've lost a couple masters, you'll join the ranks of
the 280 haters too. There's a reason the 280B was a total redesign.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thirdstage wrote:
I thought they had issues of pitch changing as the take-up reel filled
with tape.

On the Otari?

You really haven't used the 280 much, have you? Just wait...
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thirdstage wrote:
I do know where an MX80 24 track is at. How are these sonically to the
Ampex and MTR90?

An Ampex and an Otari sound difference, but the MX-80 is pretty similar
in sound to an MTR-90, maybe even a little cleaner and quieter. Depends
on what you're after and how close you want to get to it. The MX-80 is
a perfectly decent 24-track analog recorder but it has no "cachet."
Being newer than an MTR-90, it has a better chance of being in decent
condition, and it's also smaller. But it's a lot harder to fix than an
MM1200 and parts, where you find them will be quite a bit more
expensive than the Ampex.

I have only used this machine for a couple of hours over the last 4
years. I have small kids and all of this stuff is in my family room. I
did find a manual for a 280 2 track last year. This machine does need a
good go over. I have a new set of heads for it also. The ones on it
look pretty good, I just found a deal from Joe Dundovich for 100
dollars a piece for new ones.

Thirdstage wrote:
I have only used this machine for a couple of hours over the last 4
years. I have small kids and all of this stuff is in my family room. I
did find a manual for a 280 2 track last year. This machine does need a
good go over. I have a new set of heads for it also. The ones on it
look pretty good, I just found a deal from Joe Dundovich for 100
dollars a piece for new ones.

While you're talking to Joe, ask him if he's got an 8-track set in the
closet as well.

On the 2-track machines, the smaller pole pieces on the Nortronics heads
moved the bass bump up at least a third compared with the Scully originals.
I'd suspect the 8-track and 12-track stacks aren't much different than the
Applied Magnetics originals, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I thought Nortronics were original for Scully. I had heard that from a
couple Scully experts.

Are you in need of 8 track heads. I bought mine about 3 years ago. I
haven't talked to him since. Here is a link to his website.
http://www.magneticheadcompany.com/

Thirdstage wrote:
I thought Nortronics were original for Scully. I had heard that from a
couple Scully experts.

On the 12-track they might well have been.
They were not on the 2-track machines.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thirdstage wrote:
Are you in need of 8 track heads. I bought mine about 3 years ago. I
haven't talked to him since. Here is a link to his website.
http://www.magneticheadcompany.com/

No, but you should get 8-track heads so you can interchange tapes with
the outside world. Since he's not charging a lot for heads, and since
they are sort of a limited supply item (when they are gone, they are gone,
and Joe isn't exactly a teenager either), it would not hurt to get a stack
now.

He's a good guy. He helped me redesign a dubber bias distribution system
when he was with Nortronics.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I found the sales slip for these heads.

9986 STE-12U19-E28 Scully 12-TR, 1-IN. 0.17-mh Erase Head

9981 STR-12UN20-E24 Scully 12-TR 1-IN. 4-mh Record Head

9980 STP-12u21-30 Scully 12-TR 1-IN. 600-mh Play Head

Scott one other thing. I asked a couple of weeks ago about disabling
the pre-distortion circuit. It says in the manual that if you don't
have the test equipment you can bypass the circuit by turning the
linear control pot fully clockwise. Is this ringing any bells for you,
or do you have to pull it out of the PCB?

"Thirdstage" wrote in message
oups.com...
Scott one other thing. I asked a couple of weeks ago about disabling
the pre-distortion circuit. It says in the manual that if you don't
have the test equipment you can bypass the circuit by turning the
linear control pot fully clockwise. Is this ringing any bells for you,
or do you have to pull it out of the PCB?


We routinely disabled the pre-distortion circuit per the manual. A studio I
worked at in the 70s had ten (or so) 280s. We had a great maintenance tech
who kept them from exibiting the tape transport problems Scott talks about.
I and the maintenance tech had previously worked at a studio stocked with
Presto machines, so we knew the havoc faulty relay contacts can create.

Steve King

Thirdstage wrote:
Scott one other thing. I asked a couple of weeks ago about disabling
the pre-distortion circuit. It says in the manual that if you don't
have the test equipment you can bypass the circuit by turning the
linear control pot fully clockwise. Is this ringing any bells for you,
or do you have to pull it out of the PCB?

No, there's a modification to actually bypass the whole stage on the
record board. It sounds somewhat better than just cranking the knob
over because it gets that whole thing out of the signal path.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Anybody out there with this Modification?

Thirdstage wrote:
Anybody out there with this Modification?


Mel at Sequoia used to have full docs. Odds are the guys at VIF still have
them.

As I recall it looks pretty obvious on the schematic. This thing is designed
with individual gain blocks that are all capacitively coupled from one another
(which is why you get the disaster of having ukubillion crappy electrolytics
in your signal path), and on the schematic the predistortion circuit is
marked out with a dotted line. It's not a problem just to cut the trace
and jumper the previous stage through a coupling cap to the next one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thirdstage wrote:

Yeah logic IC's that have been discontinued for years.

Older than 74 series TTL ?

Graham

Not sure. They were made by Motorola MC661, 663, 670. Just to mention a
few that I recall

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Thirdstage wrote:

Yeah logic IC's that have been discontinued for years.

Older than 74 series TTL ?

Yes, RTL, DTL, and ECL.

http://semiconductormuseum.com/Museu..._923_Index.htm

http://www.semiconfareast.com/dtl.htm

http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/e...ecl_gates.html

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Thirdstage wrote:

Yeah logic IC's that have been discontinued for years.

Older than 74 series TTL ?

Yes, RTL, DTL, and ECL.

http://semiconductormuseum.com/Museu..._923_Index.htm

http://www.semiconfareast.com/dtl.htm

http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/e...ecl_gates.html

I've come across 930 series DTL in a dimmer pack ( or was it the controller ? )
that I fixed back in 1973 IIRC. It wasn't something that was easy to source for
sure..

When was this deck manufactured ?

Graham

Pooh Bear wrote:

I've come across 930 series DTL in a dimmer pack ( or was it the controller ? )
that I fixed back in 1973 IIRC. It wasn't something that was easy to source for
sure..

Actually, DTL isn't too bad. You can usually find TTL stuff that will
drop into the circuit since the levels are the same. At worst you need to
make an adaptor to deal with the pinouts.

MECL isn't too bad either, since there's a lot of military gear still out
there using it, so it was actually in production until pretty late and
the aftermarket semiconductor guys like Rochester and American Microsemi
have no problem getting the stuff.

RTL and HTL can be problems, though. The levels are funny but you can
often make CMOS stuff work.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Steve King wrote:
We routinely disabled the pre-distortion circuit per the manual. A studio I
worked at in the 70s had ten (or so) 280s. We had a great maintenance tech
who kept them from exibiting the tape transport problems Scott talks about.
I and the maintenance tech had previously worked at a studio stocked with
Presto machines, so we knew the havoc faulty relay contacts can create.

AAAGH! You _HAD_ to go and mention Prestos, didn't you? Now I'll probably
not get to sleep for a week.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Steve King wrote:
We routinely disabled the pre-distortion circuit per the manual. A studio
I
worked at in the 70s had ten (or so) 280s. We had a great maintenance
tech
who kept them from exibiting the tape transport problems Scott talks
about.
I and the maintenance tech had previously worked at a studio stocked with
Presto machines, so we knew the havoc faulty relay contacts can create.

AAAGH! You _HAD_ to go and mention Prestos, didn't you? Now I'll
probably
not get to sleep for a week.
--scott

Boy, it has been a tough couple of days. Since I mentioned that recorder,
the name of which shall not be spoken or written ever again, I was overcome
by shortness of breath and visions of a now long dead 'overnight' editor
person whose many phone calls in the wee hours still haunt me. I'm feeling
better now.

Steve

[Webb24]

Originally Posted by Thirdstage

Anyone out there with a Scully 16 or 24 track 280 series? Not the model
100

I have a scully 280 8 and 16 track if you are interested.