John Stone wrote:




in article z4Dlb.2290$d87.90@okepread05, Nexus 6 at
wrote on 10/22/03 4:56 PM:



Powell wrote:


Medical cost are up 49% since 2000. The 80 Billion
that has been allocated to war could have provided
a start to nationalized health care like Canada. Local
and state governments are deficit spending, too.
California is often an indicator of national trends.

National health care will never happen in this country.

Too much money to be made treating people's health as a
commodity.

Nexus 6


Maybe, but the present system is rapidly going into crisis mode and will
collapse totally if something isn't done.

IMO there is only one weak link in the present system; physician's salaries.
Doctors take as much out as they want (approximately $600-$1000 an hour for
office visits), none are going hungry and there is no price competition among
physicians.

Drug companies don't seem to be hurting but we all forget that they spend
incredible amounts of up-front money for dvelopment that often gets washed down
the drain.

Insurance sompanies IMO seem to be the ONLY link in the system that try to keep
a lid on cost.

Nurses also seem to be a short-sticked group. But, in general, health care
seems to be quite healthy and profitable for the doctors.

Daniel said:

If you ever wanted to move to D.C., now is the time. Most of the
market is depressed.

Has it gone back to 1999 prices?

What am I, a keep of statistics?

"Michael Mckelvy" wrote:




"George M. Middius" wrote in message
.. .


Nexus 6 said:

Prices in Manhattan are skyrocketing too.

Er, didn't they drop considerably a while back?

I dunno. They're at an all-time high now though, and by a considerable
margin. I just read that the average price of a home sale is just
under a mil, and the median price is over 600K.


Roughly the same here in Ventura county.

That's one of the wonderful things about America. The system encourages
home-ownership and with sharp controls on interest rates and tax-incentives
money just naturally flows to that market; and it's not just to the wealthy.

But as the stock market ramps up again there will be a prick to the over-valued
housing market. So what?

Now it's not really a buyers market. It's a sellers market. You can fairly
easily sell you house at an inflated price BUT to buy the next house you have
to pay an inflated price unless you radically change markets.

Oh yeah; that market bust? Never happened. It was just a reduction to the mean.
Do you think that people were really expecting 15-20% increase in value
forever, without a corresponding increase in inflation?

If you look back on market performance from say, 1980 onward you won't find a
"bust" in the 2000's. It's just that the bubble was reduced to the mean. Look
at the Dow from 1970 to 1996 and you'd predict that it would be roughly 8000
today based on long term trend. It's over 9500 now even after the 911 fiasco.

There never was a bust; only a bubble that caused people to think they "lost"
money they never really had OR to spend money they never had.

The cool factor is that the 401K tax deferral thing makes wealthy people out of
commoners. I personally know of manytelephone operators who started in the
60s, were encouraged to save 10% of their salary from the start, moved into
management jobs (the Bell System companies always chose first line managers
from the ranks) and with the help of pensions, ESOP and 401K retired as
millionaires. Only in America.

"Michael Mckelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"TCS" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:55:35 -0400, Sockpuppet Yustabe
wrote:

"TCS" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:38:41 -0700, Michael Mckelvy
wrote:


a failing economy,

Rebounding nicely. John should stick to what he knows.

I've been hearing that for 2 years now. The economy isn't close to
recovering from the hysteria after 9/11.

Actually 9-11 has little to do with it.

The hysteria after 9-11 had everything to do with it.

I was job hunting at the beginning of 2002. Went looking for
"engineering,software", "EDP", "programming", "software engineers",
"computer..." and the rest of the other titles for software
development
jobs. There wasn't ONE. Scanned the entire job ads from A to Z and
there wasn't a single software development job ad.

That was february 2002. In my 20 years experience, this has NEVER
happened before. Even now there aren't 25% the listings there were in
any given sunday from 1981 to 2001.

Compare August 2000 with August 2001, August 2002 and
August 2003. That should develop some sort of trend line that
would put 9-11 in perspective, whatever the answer might be.


For some real education study what has happened here after every major tax
cut. While the left bitches that tax cuts for everybody benefit the rich
most, what happens is they wind up paying more taxes because they spend
more.


Which is because they earn more.




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"TCS" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:49:00 -0400, Sockpuppet Yustabe
wrote:

"TCS" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:55:35 -0400, Sockpuppet Yustabe
wrote:

"TCS" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:38:41 -0700, Michael Mckelvy
wrote:


a failing economy,

Rebounding nicely. John should stick to what he knows.

I've been hearing that for 2 years now. The economy isn't close to
recovering from the hysteria after 9/11.

Actually 9-11 has little to do with it.

The hysteria after 9-11 had everything to do with it.

I was job hunting at the beginning of 2002. Went looking for
"engineering,software", "EDP", "programming", "software engineers",
"computer..." and the rest of the other titles for software development
jobs. There wasn't ONE. Scanned the entire job ads from A to Z and
there wasn't a single software development job ad.

That was february 2002. In my 20 years experience, this has NEVER
happened before. Even now there aren't 25% the listings there were in
any given sunday from 1981 to 2001.

Compare August 2000 with August 2001, August 2002 and
August 2003. That should develop some sort of trend line that
would put 9-11 in perspective, whatever the answer might be.


No problem:
8/2000: 20 pages of ads
8/2001: 18 pages
8/2002: 3 pages
8/2003: 4 pages

what paper, what dates?




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"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:PoDlb.2291$d87.460@okepread05...




The brief hiring frenzy the fed went on may have contributed
to it, plus the never ending arrival of corporations hungry
for giveaways.


Ahem.

Government spending does tend to pump up the economy.




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"Michael Mckelvy" wrote in message
...


Not surprised, the rest of the world has neer known the kind of economic
freedom we have here. They also don't seem to grasp that it is THE reason
why this country is the economic engine that drives the world.



I don't think that is true, there is as much economic freedom
in many places. The world is basically capitalistic. I would say
Eastern Europe, in general has a capatisitic environment that is less
refulatory than ours. My God, just look at our tax codes!!!!




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John Stone wrote:

in article z4Dlb.2290$d87.90@okepread05, Nexus 6 at
wrote on 10/22/03 4:56 PM:



Powell wrote:



Medical cost are up 49% since 2000. The 80 Billion
that has been allocated to war could have provided
a start to nationalized health care like Canada. Local
and state governments are deficit spending, too.
California is often an indicator of national trends.

National health care will never happen in this country.

Too much money to be made treating people's health as a
commodity.

Nexus 6



Maybe, but the present system is rapidly going into crisis mode and will
collapse totally if something isn't done.

I agree it may collapse.

In the meantime, every last ounce of profit will be wrung
from it by insurance and drug companies, not to mention HMO
bean counters.

When it all blows up, an enormous taxpayer bail out signed
by the Resident will "fix" it.

Nexus 6

Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:z4Dlb.2290$d87.90@okepread05...


Powell wrote:



Medical cost are up 49% since 2000. The 80 Billion
that has been allocated to war could have provided
a start to nationalized health care like Canada. Local
and state governments are deficit spending, too.
California is often an indicator of national trends.

National health care will never happen in this country.

Too much money to be made treating people's health as a
commodity.



There's another big reason it won't happen. The Democrats realized that it
would let business off the hook and free up money for things like
investment, research, jobs, etc..

What the **** are you talking about?

That is an absurd statement.

National health care as a policy collapsed in the early
1990's thanks to three major factors:

A $150 million campaign by the Health Insurance Association
of America;

The staggering sums of money thrown at both parties at all
levels of government by health industries;

The astounding profitabilioty of the pharmaceutical industry
when it has a totally captive market.

Did you read the FDA statement about drugs imported from
Canada? If that isn't naked political pandering to those who
pay this administrations' bills...

Nexus 6

Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"John Stone" wrote in message
...

in article z4Dlb.2290$d87.90@okepread05, Nexus 6 at
wrote on 10/22/03 4:56 PM:



Powell wrote:



Medical cost are up 49% since 2000. The 80 Billion
that has been allocated to war could have provided
a start to nationalized health care like Canada. Local
and state governments are deficit spending, too.
California is often an indicator of national trends.

National health care will never happen in this country.

Too much money to be made treating people's health as a
commodity.

Nexus 6


Maybe, but the present system is rapidly going into crisis mode and will
collapse totally if something isn't done.


Easy fix. Get the government out of it.

Government isn't in it.

What planet are you living on?

Nexus 6

Michael Mckelvy wrote:


Better to let Sadaam keep killing innocents?

That was not a stated cause for going to war.

Most Americans don't think so.

try again.

The French governemnt was obviously to afraid of what we'd find there.

US made weapons parts?

Nexus 6

"Nousaine" wrote in message
...

..

IMO there is only one weak link in the present system; physician's
salaries.

Not 'only'. There are the prescription costs and malpractice insurance
costs.

Doctors take as much out as they want (approximately $600-$1000 an hour
for
office visits), none are going hungry and there is no price competition
among
physicians.

Drug companies don't seem to be hurting but we all forget that they spend
incredible amounts of up-front money for dvelopment that often gets washed
down
the drain.

Insurance sompanies IMO seem to be the ONLY link in the system that try to
keep
a lid on cost.


Not the one's offering malpracrice insurance.


Nurses also seem to be a short-sticked group. But, in general, health care
seems to be quite healthy and profitable for the doctors.

Nusre's salaries are pretty high, about $90,000 or more for an ER nurse, at
that, there is still a shortage.




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"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Daniel said:

If you ever wanted to move to D.C., now is the time. Most of the
market is depressed.

Has it gone back to 1999 prices?

What am I, a keep of statistics?



Housing prices in this area are far higher than in 1999.




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Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

If things are so bad, why has the value of my home gone
up 50% this year?

'Cause you live in the DC area?

Real estate in the burbs there bears no relation to the rest
of the country.



There are particular reasons why this one particular
part of the suburbs did especially well.

Which one? If you don't mind saying so.

Nexus 6

Nousaine wrote:

John Stone wrote:




in article z4Dlb.2290$d87.90@okepread05, Nexus 6 at
wrote on 10/22/03 4:56 PM:



Powell wrote:



Medical cost are up 49% since 2000. The 80 Billion
that has been allocated to war could have provided
a start to nationalized health care like Canada. Local
and state governments are deficit spending, too.
California is often an indicator of national trends.

National health care will never happen in this country.

Too much money to be made treating people's health as a
commodity.

Nexus 6


Maybe, but the present system is rapidly going into crisis mode and will
collapse totally if something isn't done.


IMO there is only one weak link in the present system; physician's salaries.
Doctors take as much out as they want (approximately $600-$1000 an hour for
office visits), none are going hungry and there is no price competition among
physicians.

Physician salaries have been going *down* in the era of the
HMO, not up.

You are insane if you think a doctror is charging $600-$1000
an hour for a mere office visit - no insurance in the world
will cover that.

Quit ethe opposite.


Drug companies don't seem to be hurting but we all forget that they spend
incredible amounts of up-front money for dvelopment that often gets washed down
the drain.

Pharmaceuticals have been the most profitable industry in
the world since the early 1990's, through the philosophy of
maximum profit in a demand market. Unfortunatley that market
is people's health, not automobiles or cell phones.


Insurance sompanies IMO seem to be the ONLY link in the system that try to keep
a lid on cost.

Only for their own profits. Why do you think health
insurance costs are suddenly skyrocketing?


Nurses also seem to be a short-sticked group. But, in general, health care
seems to be quite healthy and profitable for the doctors.

You have it incredibly wrong.

Nexus 6

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:PoDlb.2291$d87.460@okepread05...



The brief hiring frenzy the fed went on may have contributed
to it, plus the never ending arrival of corporations hungry
for giveaways.



Ahem.

Government spending does tend to pump up the economy.

Artificially, yes.

That bubble always bursts later.

Nexus 6

"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:KcHlb.2485$d87.50@okepread05...


Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

If things are so bad, why has the value of my home gone
up 50% this year?

'Cause you live in the DC area?

Real estate in the burbs there bears no relation to the rest
of the country.



There are particular reasons why this one particular
part of the suburbs did especially well.

Which one? If you don't mind saying so.


Very good schools, strict zoning laws, available land, decent proximity to
DC.




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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:12:53 +0200, Lionel
wrote:


First you have badly quoted my message. So you start like a censor.
Good, good.

I am speaking about the present and you answer speaking about the past.

Perfect example of how the French have never been able to tie past and
present together.

I know what America has done in the past for Europe and precisely for
France. I use to travel in France, I have seen all these graveyards in
Somme and Normandie, does it help one of your boy in Irak ?

Quite a bit, I would say. French arrogance is exemplified by your
refusal to see how our "boy in Irak" is helping you maybe even more
than us.

I don't care what *you* are thinking about France.
I'm just afraid about of *your* moronic attitude and his possible
consequences for the rest of the world. It looks like Mr. John
Mellencamp have the same preoccupation than me

Let me guess what comes next. Unempowered France will throw yet
another little diplomatic hissey fit, with no greater forethought than
punishing the US for some imagined spite to the image of French
dignity.

Concerning my potential inferiority complex, I cannot comment without
having seen you before ! )

Then compare our space accomplishments with France's.

Something else, I hate the censors. **** you !
LOL

Sure you're French? No better cursing than that? Did you arrive via
Algeria, as well?

And maybe now would be a good time for you to defend the all-seeing
French emigration policy?

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

"TCS" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:38:41 -0700, Michael Mckelvy

wrote:

a failing economy,

Rebounding nicely. John should stick to what he knows.

I've been hearing that for 2 years now. The economy isn't close to
recovering from the hysteria after 9/11.


Actually 9-11 has little to do with it.
It was stagnating and drooping before that.
9-11 put a dent in travel and tourism, which has rebounded.
But, in the big picture, it is just the usual cyclic changes.
If things are so bad, why has the value of my home gone
up 50% this year?

80+ billion is going to be a hard pill for our children
to swallow. That would tank any economy.

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:KcHlb.2485$d87.50@okepread05...

Very good schools, strict zoning laws, available land, decent proximity to
DC.

I understand you don't want to pin it too closely, but VA or MD?

I used to live in that area.

Nexus 6

"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:JGHlb.2494$d87.1562@okepread05...


Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

"Nexus 6" wrote in message
news:PoDlb.2291$d87.460@okepread05...



The brief hiring frenzy the fed went on may have contributed
to it, plus the never ending arrival of corporations hungry
for giveaways.



Ahem.

Government spending does tend to pump up the economy.

Artificially, yes.

That bubble always bursts later.


Yes, it is temporary.
Unless it is for a social program!




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Nexus 6 wrote:



George M. Middius wrote:


Nexus 6 said:


Prices in Manhattan are skyrocketing too.



Er, didn't they drop considerably a while back?



I dunno. They're at an all-time high now though, and by a considerable
margin. I just read that the average price of a home sale is just
under a mil, and the median price is over 600K.

Except...

It's all fake money.

Remember - it's all *credit* and *loans* - so it really isn't
even as if they are spending that money. In fact, it makes the
whole problem worse in the long run as people get stretched thinner
and thinner.

TCS lamented:

I was job hunting at the beginning of 2002. Went looking for
"engineering,software", "EDP", "programming", "software engineers",
"computer..." and the rest of the other titles for software development
jobs. There wasn't ONE. Scanned the entire job ads from A to Z and
there wasn't a single software development job ad.

That was february 2002. In my 20 years experience, this has NEVER
happened before. Even now there aren't 25% the listings there were in
any given sunday from 1981 to 2001.

The exportation of these lucrative jobs are a result of the crushing economic
regulations U.S. companies face from the alphabet soup of government agencies.

Who can blame U.S. companies for outsourcing these jobs to India when the
salary cost for that India employee is less than just the Social Security payroll
deduction of his American counterpart, and with no EPA or OSHA or whatnot
to deal with, is it any wonder high-tech companies are doing just that?


GeoSynch

Michael Mckelvy wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Gentlemen,

Just a comment from a stupid French guy.
Just to show you how Americans people from all politic are sometime far
out of reality.

The open letter which has been proposed focus on reasons of the war, how
many people have been killed and how much money it will cost to USA and
international community.

And what you do now ?
You are discussing about your job, the price of your houses, your
stocks, the color of you feces... Your comfort.
Just like if you are living on an island far from the rest of the world.

Are you surprised now that more than half of the world population hate
America ? ;-)


Not surprised, the rest of the world has neer known the kind of economic
freedom we have here. They also don't seem to grasp that it is THE reason
why this country is the economic engine that drives the world.


Michael, they don't care about your economic freedom, they don't want
your democracy.
Their chiefs say "Coca-cocal is evil" and the population answers "Bush
is Satan" and they burn American flags in the same way you have renamed
the "French fries" and you have broken bottles of French wine.
Who's speaking about democracy ?
Your government has said one of the biggest lie of the history. Your CIA
already acknowledge that there's no WMD, and you continue here to say
here that Frenchies are cowards and traitors... Be serious Michael, face
the true, your president, your government are a liars. Do you know that
your French equivalents here say that your CIA was perfectly aware of
the preparation of the 9/11 and that for obscur reasons you government
let the tragedy happen ! You are living in a "hoax world", Michael,
please wake up !
You say that you are living in the country of freedom I'm agree with you
it was true.
Take care of your democracy Michael, this is my message. I don't like
that a superpower country like USA is just interested in looking to his
belly button.

Dogma4e wrote:

I don't want to discuss with the censors.
I don't need further answers.

Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:


"Lionel" wrote in message
...


Jacob Kramer wrote:



Here's an excerpt from the letter:

"As the echo of the war drums fades away and the angry masses calling
for blood slowly disperse, we as a nation must now confront the truth.
We face the unpleasant reality of an uncertain future, compromised
safety, a failing economy, and the question of how a society of
otherwise reasonable citizens was systematically lied to and
manipulated into backing the political 'hijacking' of Iraq.

"Before a single bomb was ever dropped, some of us, formerly called
the 'anti-American and unpatriotic,' have questioned or opposed this
war. Now, each day, as the dust settles and the truth slowly surfaces,
more and more people come to the inevitable conclusion of what a
debacle this whole war was.

"Thirty-nine-thousand bombs later, no weapons of mass destruction
uncovered, no dangerous dictators captured, no connection to September
11th. What have we gained but relentless media coverage of a fallen
statue and some stolen oil fields--the spoils of this misadventure.
Not to mention lucrative corporate payoffs and an enormous price tag
of over $80 Billion...some tax cut.

"But what have we lost? We have lost the lives of over 300 Americans.
Approximately two U.S. troop deaths each day, 193 deaths since the war
was declared over. In total, an estimated 20,000 people have died,
thus far, in this conflict."




http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1499&e=15&u=/launch/214927

Interesting.
Is the French wine still flow in Washington streets ?
LOL !



Dumping French wine that we already bought from you is stupid, stupid,
stupid.



Agree with you.
It requires sens of sacrifice...
...but less than for sending Boys in a such hostile country.


Better to let Sadaam keep killing innocents?
Most Americans don't think so.
The French governemnt was obviously to afraid of what we'd find there.


No French wine, they are muslims. ;O)

Nexus 6 wrote:


Michael Mckelvy wrote:


Better to let Sadaam keep killing innocents?


That was not a stated cause for going to war.

Most Americans don't think so.


try again.

The French governemnt was obviously to afraid of what we'd find there.


US made weapons parts?


WMD manufactured in France would be a fantastic "patriotic" scenario...
If this happens I bet that Steven Seagal will be your next president. ;O)

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

Daniel said:

If you ever wanted to move to D.C., now is the time. Most of the
market is depressed.

Has it gone back to 1999 prices?

What am I, a keep of statistics?

Surely not a person who takes responsibility for what he says!

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:24:04 +0200, the highly esteemed Lionel enlightened
us with these pearls of wisdom:

Gentlemen,

Just a comment from a stupid French guy. Just to show you how Americans
people from all politic are sometime far out of reality.

The open letter which has been proposed focus on reasons of the war, how
many people have been killed and how much money it will cost to USA and
international community.

And what you do now ?
You are discussing about your job, the price of your houses, your stocks,
the color of you feces... Your comfort. Just like if you are living on an
island far from the rest of the world.

Are you surprised now that more than half of the world population hate
America ? ;-)

I just HAVE to throw this in:

Complete Military History of France
===================================

Gallic Wars
Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of
French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War
Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently
creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are
victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

Italian Wars
Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two
wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion
France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

Thirty Years War
France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded
anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other
participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution
Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War
Tied.

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded
Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of
French military power.

War of the Spanish Succession
Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a
Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

American Revolution
In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans,
France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more
action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to
the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America
does most of the fighting."

French Revolution
Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars
Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to
leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British
footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War
Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's
ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

World War I
Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States.
Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep
with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any
improvement in the French bloodline.

World War II
Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain
just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina
Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien
Flu

Algerian Rebellion
Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic
Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of
Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is
identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans,
English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

War on Terrorism
France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans
and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese
ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French
should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long
until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an
- accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."


--
Greg

--The software said it requires Win2000 or better, so I installed Linux.

Greg Pierce wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:24:04 +0200, the highly esteemed Lionel enlightened
us with these pearls of wisdom:


Gentlemen,

Just a comment from a stupid French guy. Just to show you how Americans
people from all politic are sometime far out of reality.

The open letter which has been proposed focus on reasons of the war, how
many people have been killed and how much money it will cost to USA and
international community.

And what you do now ?
You are discussing about your job, the price of your houses, your stocks,
the color of you feces... Your comfort. Just like if you are living on an
island far from the rest of the world.

Are you surprised now that more than half of the world population hate
America ? ;-)


I just HAVE to throw this in:

Complete Military History of France
===================================

Gallic Wars
Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of
French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War
Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently
creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are
victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

Italian Wars
Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two
wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion
France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

Thirty Years War
France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded
anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other
participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution
Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War
Tied.

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded
Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of
French military power.

War of the Spanish Succession
Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a
Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

American Revolution
In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans,
France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more
action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to
the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America
does most of the fighting."

French Revolution
Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars
Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to
leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British
footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War
Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's
ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

World War I
Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States.
Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep
with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any
improvement in the French bloodline.

World War II
Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain
just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina
Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien
Flu

Algerian Rebellion
Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic
Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of
Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is
identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans,
English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

War on Terrorism
France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans
and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese
ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French
should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long
until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an
- accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."


Greg Pierce's discussion about John Mellencamp's open letter...
....lost (out of subject).
Sorry try again.

Ooops, I would like to add this.
I'm not like Trotsky, usually I don't care about contributor's real
identity. Nicknames are sometime funny and bring information concerning
interlocutor personality.
For me now "Dogma4e" looks like a KKK's hood.
Understand ?

Dogma4e wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:52:02 +0200, Lionel
wrote:


Ooops, I would like to add this.
I'm not like Trotsky, usually I don't care about contributor's real
identity. Nicknames are sometime funny and bring information concerning
interlocutor personality.
For me now "Dogma4e" looks like a KKK's hood.
Understand ?


Yes. You already told me you're French. What part of France did you
say you were from? You know, my grand daddy was there for the
occupation...oops!... I mean liberation. He'd sometimes tell stories
of what a chocolate bar would fetch. Maybe we're related, you and I!


Saint-Etienne, 70km south-west of Lyon.
The town where are manufactured JMLab speakers. Watch the leaflets.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 03:22:19 GMT, Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:
80+ billion is going to be a hard pill for our children
to swallow. That would tank any economy.

That's just one year's bill for georgieboy's playtime in iraq.

The grand total for bush's playtime in the whitehouse is going to be more like
3 trillion, plus the interest (6-15 trillion?) while that money is owed.

****, we haven't even started to pay off the money borrowed while reagon ****ed
around with the soviets.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:58:47 GMT, Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Remember - it's all *credit* and *loans* - so it really isn't
even as if they are spending that money. In fact, it makes the
whole problem worse in the long run as people get stretched thinner
and thinner.

And that less and less of the federal budget goes to anything but interest
payments. How much is going to interest right now, 30%?
Won't be long till it's 80-90%.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:52:02 +0200, Lionel
wrote:

Ooops, I would like to add this.
I'm not like Trotsky, usually I don't care about contributor's real
identity. Nicknames are sometime funny and bring information concerning
interlocutor personality.
For me now "Dogma4e" looks like a KKK's hood.
Understand ?

Yes. You already told me you're French. What part of France did you
say you were from? You know, my grand daddy was there for the
occupation...oops!... I mean liberation. He'd sometimes tell stories
of what a chocolate bar would fetch. Maybe we're related, you and I!

in article AaHlb.2482$d87.1075@okepread05, Nexus 6 at
wrote on 10/22/03 9:35 PM:



Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"John Stone" wrote in message
...

Maybe, but the present system is rapidly going into crisis mode and will
collapse totally if something isn't done.


Easy fix. Get the government out of it.

Government isn't in it.

What planet are you living on?

Nexus 6

Exactly. The insurance industry pays dearly to keep it that way.

Lionel wrote:

Nexus 6 wrote:



Michael Mckelvy wrote:


Better to let Sadaam keep killing innocents?



That was not a stated cause for going to war.

Most Americans don't think so.



try again.

The French governemnt was obviously to afraid of what we'd find there.



US made weapons parts?


WMD manufactured in France would be a fantastic "patriotic" scenario...
If this happens I bet that Steven Seagal will be your next president. ;O)

Close, but no cigaar.

Under those circumstances, Arnold Schwarzenegger would be
our president - and yours, too.

I'd have to move to New Zealand.

Nexus 6

Lionel wrote:


Saint-Etienne, 70km south-west of Lyon.
The town where are manufactured JMLab speakers. Watch the leaflets.

Outstanding speakers, by the way.

Who says the French can't do anything right?

Nexus 6

Nexus 6 wrote:


Lionel wrote:


Saint-Etienne, 70km south-west of Lyon.
The town where are manufactured JMLab speakers. Watch the leaflets.


Outstanding speakers, by the way.

Who says the French can't do anything right?


I've worked a long time for US companies (Rockwell...).
I have a certain habit of *this* sarcasm.
But I still appreciate your American fellows because in most cases they
stop after their first trip in France. ;-)

John Stone wrote:

in article AaHlb.2482$d87.1075@okepread05, Nexus 6 at
wrote on 10/22/03 9:35 PM:



Michael Mckelvy wrote:

Easy fix. Get the government out of it.

Government isn't in it.

What planet are you living on?


Exactly. The insurance industry pays dearly to keep it that way.

Our premiums just rose 40% at the start of October, and all
of the fees and deductibles have gone up considerably. Some
of this is the industry's reaction to years of ****ty
investments it made and took a pounding on - the rest is to
pad profits and price poorer people (who tend to have more
health problems) out of the market, thus reducing their
liability.

Commoditization of health is criminal.

Nexus 6