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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor
Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology
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John |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and similar. There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer valve. NT |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote:
On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and similar. IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950. nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside out while also wearing out rather too soon. Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous for his electrostatic speakers. The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it. Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly. There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer valve. Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job. Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the sandwich looks. But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world. I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. NT Patrick Turner. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
* It may have been the liquor talking, but
Patrick Turner wrote: On May 8, 10:39Â*pm, Tabby wrote: On May 8, 12:32Â*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and similar. IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950. nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside out while also wearing out rather too soon. Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous for his electrostatic speakers. The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it. Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly. There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer valve. Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job. Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the sandwich looks. But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world. I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. NT Patrick Turner. I own a Chinese made amp (designed in America), and it sounds delightful. I'm not willing to pay double for an equivalent amp made in the USA. *R* *H* -- Powered by Linux |/ 2.6.32.26-175 Fedora 12 "No spyware. No viruses. No nags." |/ 2.6.31.12-0.2 OpenSUSE 11.2 http://www.catholicscomehome.org |/Mutt 1.5.21 slrn 0.9.9p1 Irssi 0.8.15 "Preach the gospel always; when necessary use words." St. Francis |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 9, 1:00*am, Patrick Turner wrote:
On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote: On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and similar. IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950. nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside out while also wearing out rather too soon. Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous for his electrostatic speakers. The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it. Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly. There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer valve. Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job. Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the sandwich looks. But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world. I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. * NT Patrick Turner. So which valve amps do you like? NT |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 14, 3:33*am, Tabby wrote:
On May 9, 1:00*am, Patrick Turner wrote: On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote: On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and similar. IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950. nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside out while also wearing out rather too soon. Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous for his electrostatic speakers. The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it. Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly. There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer valve. Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job. Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the sandwich looks. But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world. I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. * NT Patrick Turner. So which valve amps do you like? NT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Not many. Patrick Turner. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 9, 1:48*pm, flipper wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2011 17:00:41 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner wrote: On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote: On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and similar. IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950. nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside out while also wearing out rather too soon. Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous for his electrostatic speakers. The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it. Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly. There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer valve. Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job. Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the sandwich looks. But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world. I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon. AND I am PROUD to be an elitist curmudgeon...... You don' realise that chinese workers get less than anyone I know here. A quick Google gave me http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...2051_mz011.htm I quote..... """"" .......The cost of Chinese factory labor is a paltry 64 cents an hour. Although that figure is rough, since it's pieced together from sketchy statistics, it's still the most thorough estimate ever compiled. It includes both wages and employer contributions for benefits and social insurance. And it covers not just city factory workers, who get the most attention, but the more numerous rural and suburban factory workers as well......... """"" Average mean income per annum where I live in Canberra = $66,000 pa. 270 days work at 9 hrs a day = 2,430 hrs, so mean hourly rate = $27.00 per hour. This by rough comparision is 42.4 times the wage of a Chinese worker. Or +32.5 dB more wages. Now I dunno about youse, but I refuse to work for 64 cents an hour. Of course the cost of living is less in China but at the end of the day if there are 200 man hours in a chinese amp, ( 5 men working for a week ), the cost of wages is $128, and if materials in chinese prices are also $128, then total cost of production = $256,and if you double that for the profit made my whoever owns the chinese company, maybe the Chinese Communist Party, then the export price might be $512. Take a look at http://www.avhub.com.au/index.php/Pr...amplifier.html Quad 80 is shown for $14,000. I searched around for Quad II-Forty and saw $6,500, but other places showed they are unavailable, maybe the Chinese have stopped production. Seems to me the curmudgeons are the western country importers and shop owners. I raise my hat to such cumudgeons, I'd never sell a damn thing if they cut their prices to what I consider reasonable. For awhile you could buy 5050 stereo power amps from "Hong-Kong Hi-Fi", some bunch of Chinese goons, and online for about $1,000. These POS amps are Jolida quality. I had rewire two which were bought by local guys to make 'em sing and stop smoking. People here and everywhere just don't give a **** about Chinese slave labour; oh yeah, nobody has trouble with social inequities all around the world. Yet all thse ****wit know-alls try to tell us the Chinese are giving us a mighty raw deal yet they are doing what we refuse to do. Just imagine if the Chinese quit exporting cheap underpants and gadgets. Your standard of living would plummet. Patrick Turner. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 9, 3:34*am, Patrick Turner wrote:
People here and everywhere just don't give a **** about Chinese slave labour; oh yeah, nobody has trouble with social inequities all around the world. Yet all thse ****wit know-alls try to tell us the Chinese are giving us a mighty raw deal yet they are doing what we refuse to do. Just imagine if the Chinese quit exporting cheap underpants and gadgets. Your standard of living would plummet. Patrick Turner What did we do when underware and gadgets were made in the USA? Somehow I was able to afford a pair of Haines boxer shorts. Pt |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On 05/09/11 01:34, Patrick Turner so wittily quipped:
if there are 200 man hours in a chinese amp, ( 5 men working for a week ), the cost of wages is $128, and if materials in chinese prices are also $128, then total cost of production = $256,and if you double that for the profit made my whoever owns the chinese company, maybe the Chinese Communist Party, then the export price might be $512. you'd need a design where the cost of the components is the majority of YOUR cost, and it doesn't take 200 man hours to build. In fact, it shouldn't take more than 1 or 2 (and that includes MACHINE hours) implying "no point to point". Of course that means 'circuit board with parts soldered in place' as ONE of the 'components' that you'd assemble locally. A cost of $10 per finished board assembly (to you) is _NOT_ an unreasonable estimate (assuming volume is high enough). Anyway, at that point the cost of parts will be 90% of the cost of the unit. The rest will be the 10 minutes or so it would take a tech to bolt it together, solder a small number of wires, plug in the tubes, do a final test, and box it. And if you had pre-fab cables that plug together "already soldered to the board" you could plug them into each other, save time and $. Anyway, you might prefer soldering a few extra interconnecting wires yourself, to avoid connector issues (or have the boards ship with 'pigtails' already tinned to make that part easy). But that takes more time. 30 seconds per wire, maybe? Anyway, all of that needs capital, so I hope you know a rich guy who likes tube amps. |
#11
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I'm a Jeffersonian constitutional republican who believes in free will
and free trade but I'm not dumb enough to think it'll 'help' Chinese workers to put them out of a job. Yet all thse ****wit know-alls try to tell us the Chinese are giving us a mighty raw deal They are in dictating wages, price controls, and currency manipulation, to name but a few. yet they are doing what we refuse to do. hogswallop Just imagine if the Chinese quit exporting cheap underpants and gadgets. Your standard of living would plummet. As opposed to going bankrupt? Patrick Turner.[/quote] Seems T Jefferson had his very own slaves. Guess that is a form of 'free trade'. Cheers, John |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On 05/09/11 21:36, flipper so wittily quipped:
but at the end of the day if there are 200 man hours in a chinese amp, ( 5 men working for a week ), the cost of wages is $128, and if materials in chinese prices are also $128, then total cost of production = $256,and if you double that for the profit made my whoever owns the chinese company, maybe the Chinese Communist Party, then the export price might be $512. All ridiculous assumptions, not to mention the cost of doing business is more than simply COGS. my point was that the design would determine how many man hours you need. there are really a LOT of variables in the cost of manufacturing something. mfg engineers get paid HUGE bucks to figure out inexpensive ways of building something (without compromising quality even). But if you can have it all done via automation, so much the better. Then the assembly production costs can become "COGS" eh? Final assembly and test would take very little time for a reasonably experienced tech. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped:
I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon. there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete with the 'crap products', but it might also involve a bit of 'slave labor' - at least for some of the assemblies and components. But... if you can get a working board design, then have some board shop make you a zillion of them and ship them to an assembly shop to insert components and wave-solder it, then ship you a completed board 'minus tubes', and also have someone else stamp out chassis and ship THEM to you, you could THEN hire a handful of people to bolt everything into place (about 10 minutes per amp, let's say), insert the tubes, run a final test, and crate 'em for shipping. I think you'd be able to compete with the 'low budget' people if you use a reasonable design (low cost + good performance) and decent quality components. As for developing custom board designs, I did a test run a few months back with a Canadian company that will do an overnight run of your board designs (in groups of 2) for (typically) under $100 (minimum order size 2) including the shipping (you just need gerber files and a credit card, upload via the web). Once the board's right you can have someone else make lots of them. Of course there are other board shops that do this, but I found them to be pretty easy to work with so I'll probably work with them again. The software I have doesn't have any tube socket layouts pre-done but a little work might yield 7 pin and 9 pin minis and octals. Might have to surface solder them due to 'round holes only'. Someone out there likely has the tube sockets 'ready to go'. Anyway, hand-wiring terminal strips is too old school for a modern amp. But you could actually have tube sockets exposed through a chassis to make it look like it's old-school point to point if you wanted to, and just use the boards to keep assembly costs down. FYI - did the board design and schematics with open source apps, 'PCB Designer' and 'gEDA' on a non-windows OS. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 13, 1:01*pm, flipper wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2011 00:35:40 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote: On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped: I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon. there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete with the 'crap products', Maybe or maybe not but that isn't the point. The point is Patrick doesn't have a clue how to design and manufacture a product for the mass market. Patrick has a very clear idea about how to design and manufacture a product for the mass market. But he doesn't want to, because he sees it is an excellent recipe for him to lose all his possessions and become a bankrupt. He'd have to get venture capital, and remove the quality like the others do to compete, and investors won't invest unless you give them everything you have in case you go broke, and the history of tube amp makers shows so many manufacturer wannabes have gone broke. Patrick is aware Chinese labour costs are 64c per hour or therabouts, and he knows he'd have to get stuff made in China to compete. Patrick is sensible, and knows the risks, and is also 64, and he doesn't plan to dive into terribly risky ventures producing niche retro mass mades with serious entreprenurial schemes using his own money; one must use only other people's money, and be 30 with nothing to lose, so the hard work of making things happen can be done. Which is not a criticism, per see, because most people don't and it wouldn't be a problem if he didn't go around pontificating as if he did. Are, but there you go trying to copy the Pope, who pontificates at the Vatican..... Patrick Turner. |
#15
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On 05/12/11 20:01, flipper so wittily quipped:
On Tue, 10 May 2011 00:35:40 -0700, Big Bad Bob wrote: On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped: I can then compete with the crap products by offering real performance. Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon. there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete with the 'crap products', Maybe or maybe not but that isn't the point. The point is Patrick doesn't have a clue how to design and manufacture a product for the mass market. yeah, that was pretty evident with the '100 man hours' part in the earlier post. Even with point to point wiring, it would only take about 20 to build an amp (my gross estimate), and that's soldering at MY speed (which isn't all that fast). Which is not a criticism, per see, because most people don't and it wouldn't be a problem if he didn't go around pontificating as if he did. yeah, but it does make for interesting follow-up discussions. The various expertise of those who chimed in might be enough to actually start something [who'd a thunk it?]. Now, where do I find the investors... /me volunteers as CFO even though I hate accounting |
#16
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 8, 7:32*am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That my friend is the answer. |
#17
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor
NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That my friend is the answer. Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube. Fred |
#18
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor
On Sun, 8 May 2011 11:06:36 -0700, "Fred" wrote:
NX211 wrote: On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That my friend is the answer. Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube. Fred Yes, but if you blink you miss it. d |
#19
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2011 11:06:36 -0700, "Fred" wrote: NX211 wrote: On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That my friend is the answer. Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube. Fred Yes, but if you blink you miss it. ;-) Fred d |
#20
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 9, 4:57*am, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2011 11:06:36 -0700, "Fred" wrote: NX211 wrote: On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. *That my friend is the answer. Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube. Fred Yes, but if you blink you miss it. Sometimes bjts explode if they try to get hot. Then you need to have eyes wide shut. Patrick Turner. d- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On May 9, 4:06*am, "Fred" wrote:
NX211 wrote: On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. *That my friend is the answer. Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube. Fred- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - NO. I never been able to make a transistor glow. But they can easily make fuses blow, after they have failed to become a sullen dull useless bit of junk which conducts like wire in both directions. Patrick Turner. |
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor
On Sun, 8 May 2011 17:03:26 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
wrote: On May 9, 4:06*am, "Fred" wrote: NX211 wrote: On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. *That my friend is the answer. Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube. Fred- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - NO. I never been able to make a transistor glow. But they can easily make fuses blow, after they have failed to become a sullen dull useless bit of junk which conducts like wire in both directions. Patrick Turner. Back in the 1970s when I was designing the first digital pagers, we used a system called Molybdenum Gate Technology which would run off 2.5V. If you prised the lids off the chips, the FET drains would glow when they conducted. You could actually follow what the logic of the chip was doing this way. d |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
On 05/08/11 05:58, NX211 so wittily quipped:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L StewartJohn.L.Stewart. wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now& then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That my friend is the answer. glowy bottles look cool, especially power tubes with that blue glow. almost like a little nuke reactor. heh. |
#24
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Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor
* It may have been the liquor talking, but
John L Stewart wrote: anterm;930852 Wrote: Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples. John -- John L Stewart I'm not particularly attached to *tubes* as I am to my tube amp, whose musical qualities have thus far prevented me from buying any other amp (including SS), for fear it will not be as good. I am not one of those who 'collects' amps - one at a time for me! The only part of the technology I don't like is the heat, which in the summer can be a problem. That is why I am considering getting a SS low powered amp for especially hot days. If it is an improvement over my tube amp, all the better. *R* *H* -- Powered by Linux |/ 2.6.32.26-175 Fedora 12 "No spyware. No viruses. No nags." |/ 2.6.31.12-0.2 OpenSUSE 11.2 http://www.catholicscomehome.org |/Mutt 1.5.21 slrn 0.9.9p1 Irssi 0.8.15 "Preach the gospel always; when necessary use words." St. Francis |
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Quote:
For myself the vacuum tube amplifier is a source of satisfaction not thru listening but rather the challenge of building something. That way I can perform lots of objective tests on the circuit with modern test equipment. Compare how it does with others of similar bent & with the old original stuff. Then I put it on the shelf. Done quite a few that way, then authored articles for publication. But I could not make the kind of living I like doing that. All just for fun & my curiosity. Most of them seldom listened to again at all. I don't have enough money to build a race car. Or own a stable of antiques like Jay Leno. Can't afford a Shelby Mustang. But I do have an 87 Cobra I bought new back when I had a few extra bucks! Had it out the other day. It goes like Hell but drives like a truck. So there, John |
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