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Half Inch 4 track
Can someone please explain what the SUBSTANTIAL difference would be
sonically between printing a stereo mix on all four tracks of a four track half inch machine (left channel printed to tracks 1 and 2, right channel to 3 and 4) versus printing to a half inch twp track machine? With all other things equal, isn't track width the determining factor? Other than the gap between 1/2 and 3/4, isn't the tape "real estate" for each side of the mix more or less the same? I know there is some basic thing that I'm missing, or everyone would be buying half inch four tracks and printing to them this way. As an aside, is printing a stereo mix to TWO tracks of the half inch four track the same as printing normally to the same type of machine set up as a quarter inch two track? I'm thinking about buying a half inch four track to use as a multi track for things that want to be printed to tape, and as a mixdown deck, so that's the reason for all the questions. Thanks, Jim |
#2
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nag champa wrote:
Can someone please explain what the SUBSTANTIAL difference would be sonically between printing a stereo mix on all four tracks of a four track half inch machine (left channel printed to tracks 1 and 2, right channel to 3 and 4) versus printing to a half inch twp track machine? That depends a lot on how well the channels match. If you can align tracks 1 and 2 so they are perfectly identical, the only big deal is the guard band. With all other things equal, isn't track width the determining factor? Other than the gap between 1/2 and 3/4, isn't the tape "real estate" for each side of the mix more or less the same? I know there is some basic thing that I'm missing, or everyone would be buying half inch four tracks and printing to them this way. The guard band is actually a big deal; the frequency response of the track is not the same in the center of the track as on the edge, which is called the "fringe effect." You wind up having trouble with high frequency response staying flat if you make a recording on a 4-track machine and play it back on a 2-track 1/2" machine for that reason. You _could_ use a 4-track machine that way, but you'd lose compatibility with the rest of the world. If you _were_ going to do it, you might be able to parallel tracks 1 and 2 into one electronics unit with some fiddling, and avoid the alignment issues. As an aside, is printing a stereo mix to TWO tracks of the half inch four track the same as printing normally to the same type of machine set up as a quarter inch two track? No, because of the fringe effect. And on a 1/4" machine, the guard band is even wider in comparison with the head. If you do this, you only get a 2 dB improvement in S/N over a single track, rather than the 3 dB you would expect in a perfect world. (Remember the noise is not correlated, so it doesn't sum perfectly.) I'm thinking about buying a half inch four track to use as a multi track for things that want to be printed to tape, and as a mixdown deck, so that's the reason for all the questions. Well, most machines with that head configuration can easily have the head assemblies swapped out for 1/4" 2-track. That's a perfectly good-sounding format that is compatible with the outside world. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
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#4
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1119748565k@trad... In article .com writes: Can someone please explain what the SUBSTANTIAL difference would be sonically between printing a stereo mix on all four tracks of a four track half inch machine I assume you're planning to parallel the tracks on playback so that you get the equivalent of a wider track? When you do that, you're subjecting yourself to azimuth inaccuracies. If playback head alignment was a bit off from the record head alignment (and bear in mind that the playback head might be on a different machine) the two tracks that you sum will be slightly out of phase. You could get some cancellation when summing the slighly out-of-phase tracks. Isn't that why we always recorded on master tapes 1 khz tone for level and 10khz for high-eq adjustment and 15 khz for azimuth tweaking? We assumed that the master would --- always --- be played on a different machine on its way to a release format, typically vinyl. Steve King |
#6
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1119805508k@trad... In article writes: Isn't that why we always recorded on master tapes 1 khz tone for level and 10khz for high-eq adjustment and 15 khz for azimuth tweaking? We assumed that the master would --- always --- be played on a different machine on its way to a release format, typically vinyl. Yes, but generally when adjusting azimuth you either adjust for a peak if it's a full track tape or you pick two tracks and adjust the azimuth so that they're in phase. But head gaps aren't perfectly in line (there's a tolerance for "scatter") and if playing back a 4-track tape on 2-track heads (or 4-track heads with pairs of tracks summed) there's some room for the two tracks that are summed to be a bit out of phase. Makes sense. Isn't there another effect, when the material is recorded full track, for instance, and played back on a two-track machine? Some effect on low frequency response? Steve King |
#7
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Thanks for all the info, guys. So are there any opinions about an
Otari MTR-10 or 12? JRF sells a two track conversion kit for 1900 bucks, so if the machine was cheap enough and in decent shape, would that be a good choice? Thanks, Jim |
#8
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"nag champa" wrote in message
oups.com... Can someone please explain what the SUBSTANTIAL difference would be sonically between printing a stereo mix on all four tracks of a four track half inch machine (left channel printed to tracks 1 and 2, right channel to 3 and 4) versus printing to a half inch twp track machine? With all other things equal, isn't track width the determining factor? Other than the gap between 1/2 and 3/4, isn't the tape "real estate" for each side of the mix more or less the same? I know there is some basic thing that I'm missing, or everyone would be buying half inch four tracks and printing to them this way. As an aside, is printing a stereo mix to TWO tracks of the half inch four track the same as printing normally to the same type of machine set up as a quarter inch two track? I'm thinking about buying a half inch four track to use as a multi track for things that want to be printed to tape, and as a mixdown deck, so that's the reason for all the questions. Thanks, Jim There's really no appreciable reason to print stereo to four tracks on a half inch. Now two tracks on a half inch is just plain beautiful, but expensive. The technical side? No outer tracks (they both are outer tracks), track width is the largest you can get unless ATR is now making a 1" two track for mastering. And the distance of the two tracks to the tape edge is greater than using four tracks in the same tape width. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio |
#9
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"nag champa" wrote in message
ups.com... Thanks for all the info, guys. So are there any opinions about an Otari MTR-10 or 12? JRF sells a two track conversion kit for 1900 bucks, so if the machine was cheap enough and in decent shape, would that be a good choice? Thanks, Jim Cheap enough and pay $1900 for a head conversion? I'd pay serious attention to the mechanicals on a RTR before I'd put $1900 in for some heads, even if they are from JRF. Now if you go to Randy Blevins and buy a well maintained or refurbished RTR, then I'd say putting $1900 into heads would be worth it. But, and this is just a plain good idea any time, if you are already aware of JRF, then call them and ask some questions. They'll be glad to spend a little time so that you can make the right decision. They might even have a machine just to your liking. Buying from reputable dealers like Randy or the guys at JRF Magnetics is probably worth every dime you pay, and you get knowledgable people to talk with when you have problems. And who knows, you may end up with more than your money's worth. Also be aware of tape scarcity. The folks at JRF are supposedly coming out with some tape and Quantigy is making limited runs for SPARS (406, 456, 499 and GP9), but as I understand it, you have to be a SPARS member and that has some professional requirements. Again, a telephone call will get an answer on that. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio |
#12
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nag champa wrote:
Thanks for all the info, guys. So are there any opinions about an Otari MTR-10 or 12? JRF sells a two track conversion kit for 1900 bucks, so if the machine was cheap enough and in decent shape, would that be a good choice? That's half-inch 2-track for $1900. You'll find a 1/4" headstack for the machine will be much cheaper, and 1/4" sounds pretty good. I think I'd rather have a 1/4" ATR-100 than a 1/2" MTR-10. But that's just me. Hell, I worked on a 440B for years and liked it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#13
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Roger W. Norman wrote:
Also be aware of tape scarcity. The folks at JRF are supposedly coming out with some tape and Quantigy is making limited runs for SPARS (406, 456, 499 and GP9), but as I understand it, you have to be a SPARS member and that has some professional requirements. Again, a telephone call will get an answer on that. Quantegy is now shipping to the general public. They have a serious backorder, but stuff is going out the door. There are three other companies that are either making tape in small quantities or will soon be making tape in small quantities. Verdict on them is still out but Quantegy definitely has some competition. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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