what parameters determines the performance of a subwoofer? XMax is how much
the cone can move in and out?(bigger better) ; Fs - the lowest frequency
(lower better?) ; SPL - higher better?

This may or may not be of help:

http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq/rac-faq_4.html

"Johan Wagener" wrote in message
...
what parameters determines the performance of a subwoofer? XMax is how
much
the cone can move in and out?(bigger better) ; Fs - the lowest frequency
(lower better?) ; SPL - higher better?

Xmax and power handling can be extracted from the overall groupof
parameters and interpreted that way, but as soon as you get into the
other Thiele/Small parameters (Fs, Vas, Qts, etc.) you should really not
try and extrapolate driver performance by looking at them individually
or other than as a whole. People that have worked with driver parameters
their whole lives may be able to shortcut some of the number crunching
and judge performance differences by looking at only a few
characteristics, but if you lack that experience do yourself a favor and
plug ALL the numbers into one of the many free web-posted driver
modeling programs, like WinISD etc. and let the software do the work.

JD

Johan Wagener wrote:

what parameters determines the performance of a subwoofer? XMax is how much
the cone can move in and out?(bigger better) ; Fs - the lowest frequency
(lower better?) ; SPL - higher better?

"Johan Wagener" wrote in message
...
what parameters determines the performance of a subwoofer? XMax is how
much
the cone can move in and out?(bigger better)

Not necessarily.

; Fs - the lowest frequency
(lower better?) ;

Not necessarily.

SPL - higher better?

Definately NOT.
Better sounds subs will always have a low SPL.

Not true. My IDMAX sounds awesome and gets stupid loud. So does the Adire
Brahma and the eD A-series.


Paul Vina




Definately NOT.
Better sounds subs will always have a low SPL.

Sorry, but that is 100% not true... there are very good sounding
speakers in the world that have relatively high "SPL", i.e. sensitivity.

Granted, driver designers sometimes sacrifice sensitivity to achieve
lower Fs, or for other reasons, but it's never the only solution.

JD

Avanti wrote:

"Johan Wagener" wrote in message
...


what parameters determines the performance of a subwoofer? XMax is how


much


the cone can move in and out?(bigger better)



Not necessarily.

; Fs - the lowest frequency


(lower better?) ;



Not necessarily.

SPL - higher better?

Definately NOT.
Better sounds subs will always have a low SPL.

I think he was referring specifically to sensitivity, as rated in dB SPL
but either way it's not a true statement.

JD

Paul Vina wrote:

Not true. My IDMAX sounds awesome and gets stupid loud. So does the Adire
Brahma and the eD A-series.


Paul Vina






Definately NOT.
Better sounds subs will always have a low SPL.

the dBW can sometimes be used, I know it is in home audio, but enclosure and cars have the biggest affect on sound next to parameters
"John Durbin" wrote in message ...
I think he was referring specifically to sensitivity, as rated in dB SPL but either way it's not a true statement.

JD

Paul Vina wrote:

Not true. My IDMAX sounds awesome and gets stupid loud. So does the Adire
Brahma and the eD A-series.


Paul Vina




Definately NOT.
Better sounds subs will always have a low SPL.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:cwFPb.99044$sv6.411357@attbi_s52...
Not true. My IDMAX sounds awesome and gets stupid loud. So does the
Adire
Brahma and the eD A-series.

Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a speaker with a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other factors being
equal, also you will find the lower SPL speaker will work better than the
higher one in a smaller box,
obviously you do not beleive me and I don't give a hoot, but you may believe
JL, they have or certainley used to have a good explanation as to why on
their website.
Question how come the better quality subs have lower spl/w than the el
cheapo versions, ie JL, Infinity ZR- Apline, DLS, Kicker vs Pine lower cost
Kenwood Pioneer, Jet Sound etc....

"Avanti" wrote in message
...

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:cwFPb.99044$sv6.411357@attbi_s52...
Not true. My IDMAX sounds awesome and gets stupid loud. So does the
Adire
Brahma and the eD A-series.

Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a speaker with
a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other factors
being
equal, also you will find the lower SPL speaker will work better than the
higher one in a smaller box,

Further to the above, the SPL is usually measured at 1khz, far above the
frequency you want pumping through your subwoofer.

Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a speaker with
a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other factors
being
equal,

Explain.

also you will find the lower SPL speaker will work better than the
higher one in a smaller box,

May. But that's the result of the smaller box moreso than the driver
itself.

obviously you do not beleive me and I don't give a hoot, but you may
believe
JL, they have or certainley used to have a good explanation as to why on
their website.

This newsgroup frequently requires that people who make assertions back them
up with evidence if anyone is to believe what they say. I wouldn't expect
anyone to believe what I say if I don't provide evidence, nor should they.
You've always backed up what you've said in the past (unlike certain other
people). So don't take Paul's rebuttal as an attack.

Question how come the better quality subs have lower spl/w than the el
cheapo versions, ie JL, Infinity ZR- Apline, DLS, Kicker vs Pine lower
cost
Kenwood Pioneer, Jet Sound etc....

This isn't always true. I can think of several that don't.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a speaker
with
a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other factors
being
equal,

Explain.

SQ and volume are not the same, more SPL/W will usually indicate that the
freq response for the driver is not 'flat'.


also you will find the lower SPL speaker will work better than the
higher one in a smaller box,

May. But that's the result of the smaller box moreso than the driver
itself.

Not quite so.


obviously you do not beleive me and I don't give a hoot, but you may
believe
JL, they have or certainley used to have a good explanation as to why on
their website.

This newsgroup frequently requires that people who make assertions back
them
up with evidence if anyone is to believe what they say. I wouldn't expect
anyone to believe what I say if I don't provide evidence, nor should they.
You've always backed up what you've said in the past (unlike certain other
people). So don't take Paul's rebuttal as an attack.

Who said I took it as an attack? Like I say see the JL website there is
independant evidence, after all you should also remember JL is not I sub I
would choose myself....


Question how come the better quality subs have lower spl/w than the el
cheapo versions, ie JL, Infinity ZR- Apline, DLS, Kicker vs Pine lower
cost
Kenwood Pioneer, Jet Sound etc....

This isn't always true. I can think of several that don't.

Yet you do not provide the eveidence that you have just chastised me for.

Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a speaker
with
a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other factors
being
equal,

Explain.

SQ and volume are not the same, more SPL/W will usually indicate that the
freq response for the driver is not 'flat'.

a) this isn't always true; b) "flat" is not necessarily the same thing as
"sounding good".

obviously you do not beleive me and I don't give a hoot, but you may
believe
JL, they have or certainley used to have a good explanation as to why
on
their website.

This newsgroup frequently requires that people who make assertions back
them
up with evidence if anyone is to believe what they say. I wouldn't
expect
anyone to believe what I say if I don't provide evidence, nor should
they.
You've always backed up what you've said in the past (unlike certain
other
people). So don't take Paul's rebuttal as an attack.

Who said I took it as an attack? Like I say see the JL website there is
independant evidence, after all you should also remember JL is not I sub I
would choose myself....

Well, we've already proven several things on that JL tutorial site wrong, so
it's already lost a great deal of credibility. But I'm willing to judge it
by its merits. What article were you referring to?

Question how come the better quality subs have lower spl/w than the el
cheapo versions, ie JL, Infinity ZR- Apline, DLS, Kicker vs Pine lower
cost
Kenwood Pioneer, Jet Sound etc....

This isn't always true. I can think of several that don't.

Yet you do not provide the eveidence that you have just chastised me for.

You didn't ask. Begin with Peerless. I don't know of very meany
sensitivities off the top of my head, so if you want more I can dig it up
for you.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a
speaker
with
a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other
factors
being
equal,

Explain.

SQ and volume are not the same, more SPL/W will usually indicate that
the
freq response for the driver is not 'flat'.

a) this isn't always true; b) "flat" is not necessarily the same thing as
"sounding good".

obviously you do not beleive me and I don't give a hoot, but you may
believe
JL, they have or certainley used to have a good explanation as to
why
on
their website.

This newsgroup frequently requires that people who make assertions
back
them
up with evidence if anyone is to believe what they say. I wouldn't
expect
anyone to believe what I say if I don't provide evidence, nor should
they.

Well, we've already proven several things on that JL tutorial site wrong,
so
it's already lost a great deal of credibility. But I'm willing to judge
it
by its merits. What article were you referring to?

IIRC http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/index.html

There was a long article about speaker sensitivity and box sizes.

Question how come the better quality subs have lower spl/w than the
el
cheapo versions, ie JL, Infinity ZR- Apline, DLS, Kicker vs Pine
lower
cost
Kenwood Pioneer, Jet Sound etc....

This isn't always true. I can think of several that don't.

Please do tell.

"Avanti" wrote in message
...

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Any speaker gets loud, if you want high fidelity sound then a
speaker
with
a
lower dB/W will usually be the better sounding one, all other
factors
being
equal,

Explain.

SQ and volume are not the same, more SPL/W will usually indicate that
the
freq response for the driver is not 'flat'.

a) this isn't always true; b) "flat" is not necessarily the same thing
as
"sounding good".

obviously you do not beleive me and I don't give a hoot, but you
may
believe
JL, they have or certainley used to have a good explanation as to
why
on
their website.

This newsgroup frequently requires that people who make assertions
back
them
up with evidence if anyone is to believe what they say. I wouldn't
expect
anyone to believe what I say if I don't provide evidence, nor should
they.

Well, we've already proven several things on that JL tutorial site
wrong,
so
it's already lost a great deal of credibility. But I'm willing to judge
it
by its merits. What article were you referring to?

IIRC http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/index.html

There was a long article about speaker sensitivity and box sizes.

Question how come the better quality subs have lower spl/w than
the
el
cheapo versions, ie JL, Infinity ZR- Apline, DLS, Kicker vs Pine
lower
cost
Kenwood Pioneer, Jet Sound etc....

This isn't always true. I can think of several that don't.

Please do tell.

for your last question Usd and Velodyne have high sensitivity subs, and no
better example than Strokers like 95-99 for the three models.

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
"Avanti" wrote in message
...


Please do tell.

for your last question Usd

Haven't heard of those.

and Velodyne have high sensitivity subs, and no
better example than Strokers like 95-99 for the three models.

The next 2 I have not read anywhere that they are reknowed for their sonic
quality abilities,the Strokers are sold on producing pure SPL.

However it looks like we will have to agree to differ as when it comes to
spending my money I will go for the sub with 89dB/W or less over and above
one that is higher, since from my time of building enclosures I remember
which ones always sound 'proper'.

and Velodyne have high sensitivity subs, and no
better example than Strokers like 95-99 for the three models.

The next 2 I have not read anywhere that they are reknowed for their sonic
quality abilities,the Strokers are sold on producing pure SPL.

And what are the Velodynes known for?

However it looks like we will have to agree to differ as when it comes to
spending my money I will go for the sub with 89dB/W or less over and above
one that is higher, since from my time of building enclosures I remember
which ones always sound 'proper'.

What's the relation between sensitivity and "proper"? How does lower mean
better? What mechanism is responsible?

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...


What's the relation between sensitivity and "proper"? Nothing , only that
I rememeber a bass driver with a light uncontrolled cone will be peaky in
the freq response, distort easier under higher power inputs and as a natural
coincidence have an above 90dB/W sensitivty.
I must have just been real unlucky in the drivers that I have come across.

How does lower mean
better?

Who said it did unless you are reffering to sensitivty then see above.

What mechanism is responsible?

I don't know, but now how about you responding to the original posters
query? Perhaps he can then decide for himself which path he wishes to follow
after all neither of us have anything to gain or lose.

What's the relation between sensitivity and "proper"? Nothing , only
that
I rememeber a bass driver with a light uncontrolled cone will be peaky in
the freq response, distort easier under higher power inputs and as a
natural
coincidence have an above 90dB/W sensitivty.

Why are you assuming that high sensitivities require a "light uncontrolled
cone"?

I don't know, but now how about you responding to the original posters
query? Perhaps he can then decide for himself which path he wishes to
follow
after all neither of us have anything to gain or lose.

I already responded.

"Avanti" wrote in message
...

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
"Avanti" wrote in message
...
Please do tell.

for your last question Usd

Haven't heard of those.

and Velodyne have high sensitivity subs, and no
better example than Strokers like 95-99 for the three models.

The next 2 I have not read anywhere that they are reknowed for their sonic
quality abilities,the Strokers are sold on producing pure SPL.

However it looks like we will have to agree to differ as when it comes to
spending my money I will go for the sub with 89dB/W or less over and above
one that is higher, since from my time of building enclosures I remember
which ones always sound 'proper'.

Usd are some great subs, check them out. Velodyne are servo controlled subs
check them out.

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...


[snip]

Usd are some great subs, check them out.

I just had a look and paid great attention to the SPL/W

USD Y-210 10" Subwoofer
Model Y-210/4 Y-210/4d Y-210/6d
Re Ohm 3.2
6.4 / 1.6 8.8 / 2.2
Vas 27.9 27.8
27.9
Fs Hz 32.1
34.6 33.9
Qts 0.37
0.42 0.50
Qes 0.39 0.46 0.55
Qms 5.84 5.72 5.94
Sd cm2 310 310 310
SPLo 87.4 dB 87.5 dB 87.4 dB

Couldn't disagree looking at the spec I would expext them to sound good in
the correct enviroment.