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Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 27th 17, 04:39 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
Peter Wieck
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Posts: 2,409
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 9:18:39 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Maybe something like this might work:
>
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_021AMP....html?tp=48757
>
> Crutchfield seems to have all kinds of amplifiers...
>
> Expensive though...


What are you trying to accomplish?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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  #12  
Old July 27th 17, 07:17 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
[email protected]
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Posts: 22
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 5:39:56 PM UTC+2, Peter Wieck wrote:
> On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 9:18:39 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Maybe something like this might work:
> >
> > https://www.crutchfield.com/p_021AMP....html?tp=48757
> >
> > Crutchfield seems to have all kinds of amplifiers...
> >
> > Expensive though...

>
> What are you trying to accomplish?
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA


I need something to power the subwoofer it says to in topic.

So the subwoofer apperently has 6 wires. 3 wires for + 3 wires for -.

So these wires probably have to be plugged into an "amplifier". Problem with that is probably that most amplifiers are "stereo" based and only have 4 connection points.

The amplifier should then be plugged into "pre sub out" or something like that from receiver... receiver is connected to PC/soundblaster/audio connections.

What I would like to try is:

1. Provide power to the subwoofer.
2. Get a signal from receiver to subwoofer to see if it can work.
Which is basically the same thing as 1 more or less.

Perhaps going this route might not give exact sound as it was... or maybe it will, not sure about that... but it's worth a try.

Or I could try taking this device to some shop and see if they can get it powered up.... but that is a bit risky... unless they know what they are doing concerning the 8 ohm rating of this thing... and the 70 watts power requirement hmmm...

Not sure if stores will try and power it up !
  #13  
Old July 27th 17, 09:01 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
Peter Wieck
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Posts: 2,409
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

NONONONONONONO

Did I mention NO?

You are making this WAYYYyyyy too complicated, and why I asked the question in the first place, and why I mentioned KISS earlier, AKA, K-eep I-t S-imple S-tupid.

Please go back and look over what has been posted to-date:

a) This speaker is designed to accept *UP TO THREE* separate outputs in the same speaker.
b) Those outputs, typically are Channels A, B, & Center. Or, Right, Left & Center.
c) You *DO NOT* have to drive all three voice-coils.
d) You should *NOT* run the voice-coils in Series or Parallel.
e) You may need some sort of crossover system from your A & B & C outputs I do not know what sort of speakers you have, or their impedance. Hence the term "May".
f) It !! DOES NOT !! require 70 watts to drive it. That rating is for the maximum average power over a specified range of frequencies over a specified time. Were you to run 70 watts into that device continuously, it would burn up. Don't understand? How long can you hold onto a (lit) 60-watt incandescent light bulb without damage? That speaker will make plenty of noise on as little as 2 or 3 watts.

Essentially, you have a sub-woofer designed to accept input from Channels A, B, & Center from the receiver detailed below.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-7-1-Cha.../dp/B001BKND5W

You need to find a way to provide mid & tweet to your main speakers for channels A, B & Center. That is your ONLY task here. This may involve some sort of crossover, or some sort of careful wiring of your existing speakers. Please note the impedance range on the Denon, and do not go outside those nominal ratings.

It seems to me that you are expending a great deal of effort to use a marginal far device outside of its design parameters.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

  #14  
Old July 28th 17, 02:52 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
~misfit~[_3_]
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Posts: 52
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

Once upon a time on usenet Peter Wieck wrote:
> Are you sure you are not a troll?


I don't see the posts you're replying to Peter so that means the person
you're replying to most likely *is* a troll and is in my killfile. I can't
tell as you don't quote.

It probably heard that this group is no longer moderated....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

> A 3-way crossover divides the input into three separate output curves
> covering three different frequency ranges. These curves are not
> "square", but typical rounded curves with almost flat tops. So, the
> woofer covers everything from 0 HZ to, perhaps, 1,000HZ - BUT! the
> curve drops off pretty seriously from about 480 HZ. The midrange
> covers everything from about 150 HZ to, say.... 10,000 HZ with
> similar drops at either end. The Tweet starts in at about 1,000 HZ to
> ?.
>
> Not intended to be actual frequencies, offered for illustrative
> purposes only.
>
> http://images.audiojudgement.com/201...over-types.jpg
>
>
> THESE DO NOT GO INTO A SINGLE VOICE COIL. Full Stop.
>
> Do not over-complicate what you have. Which is an inexpensive means
> to mix bass signal from multiple sources without the need for
> additional electronics.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA




  #15  
Old July 28th 17, 02:57 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
[email protected]
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Posts: 22
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

(Small corrections made compared to posting on other newsgroups )

My original hypothesis for this three voice coil design is for 7.1 operatio=
n could be the correct one:

Low Frequencies from Channels is send to the subwoofer's 3 voice coil.

This hypothesis is confirmed by this document stating different magnetic fi=
elds will result in a net magnetic field describing the action/motion takin=
g by the subwoofer. So three voice coil would give more precise control ove=
r waves/cosinus/sinus waves inteferring with each other.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Dual...oilDrivers.pdf

Since there are only 3 voice coils and 8 signals it would require a mapping=
for example:

Voice 1: Left+Center+Right
Voice 2: Side Left + Side Right
Voice 3: Rear Right + Rear Left + LFE

This mapping/hypothesis makes the most since to me.

One other hypothesis is that this company wanted to use the same amplifiers=
to make production easy.

However this does not cancel out my hypothesis either, this is just a conve=
nient/bonus.

My guess is that each 70 watt amplifier is being used to cause this mapping=
effect.

Thus if I would simply wire a single amplifier in parallel to this subwoofe=
r it would not be the same as wiring three individual amplifiers being driv=
en with a specially processed or mixed signal.

Knowing creative labs they would probably have jumped upon this oppertunity=
to use a three voice coil system to it's maximum audio quality potential.

This is probably simply new technology that the mainstream market has not y=
et catched on too, shown by the simple single pre-amp subwoofer out port.

To duplicate this technology it would require at least 3 pre-amp subwoofer =
out ports and special signal processing or at least mixing of these input s=
ignals.

Bye,
Skybuck.
  #16  
Old July 28th 17, 02:57 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:01:55 PM UTC+2, Peter Wieck wrote:
> NONONONONONONO
>=20
> Did I mention NO?=20
>=20
> You are making this WAYYYyyyy too complicated, and why I asked the questi=

on in the first place, and why I mentioned KISS earlier, AKA, K-eep I-t S-i=
mple S-tupid.=20
>=20
> Please go back and look over what has been posted to-date:
>=20
> a) This speaker is designed to accept *UP TO THREE* separate outputs in t=

he same speaker.=20
> b) Those outputs, typically are Channels A, B, & Center. Or, Right, Left =

& Center.=20
> c) You *DO NOT* have to drive all three voice-coils.=20
> d) You should *NOT* run the voice-coils in Series or Parallel. =20
> e) You may need some sort of crossover system from your A & B & C outputs=

I do not know what sort of speakers you have, or their impedance. Hence th=
e term "May".=20
> f) It !! DOES NOT !! require 70 watts to drive it. That rating is for the=

maximum average power over a specified range of frequencies over a specifi=
ed time. Were you to run 70 watts into that device continuously, it would b=
urn up. Don't understand? How long can you hold onto a (lit) 60-watt incand=
escent light bulb without damage? That speaker will make plenty of noise on=
as little as 2 or 3 watts.=20
>=20
> Essentially, you have a sub-woofer designed to accept input from Channels=

A, B, & Center from the receiver detailed below.=20
>=20
> https://www.amazon.com/Denon-7-1-Cha...ued-Manufactu=

rer/dp/B001BKND5W
>=20
> You need to find a way to provide mid & tweet to your main speakers for c=

hannels A, B & Center. That is your ONLY task here. This may involve some s=
ort of crossover, or some sort of careful wiring of your existing speakers.=
Please note the impedance range on the Denon, and do not go outside those =
nominal ratings.=20
>=20
> It seems to me that you are expending a great deal of effort to use a mar=

ginal far device outside of its design parameters.=20
>=20
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA


I think you miss understand.

I want to accomplish the following for a full pictu

I want the denon receiver to power 7 satelite speakers which it is doing fi=
ne as I write this.

But I also want *something* to power the subwoofer.

Now if I was a millionare I could:


1. Buy 1 receiver + 1 subwoofer per channel + 1 speaker per channel.

For a total ammount of 7 speakers + 7 subwoofers + 7 receiver.

Every receiver would then be in control of 1 speaker + 1 subwoofer.

The receiver would split the signal of the channel in two signals 1 for the=
speaker 1 for the subwoofer.

2. There would be an 8th subwoofer and 8th receiver to simply process the L=
FE signal.

So in total there would be 7 speakers 8 receivers 8 subwoofers.

However a cheaper solution costing less space would be:

3 receivers + 7 satelites + 3 subwoofers.


Receiver 1 processes left/center/right and splits this off to 3 speakers an=
d 1 subwoofer.

Receiver 2 processes side left/side right and splits this off to 2 speakers=
and 1 subwoofer.

Receiver 3 processes rear rear/ rear left and LFE and splits this of to 2 a=
nd 1 subwoofer.

So then I would some something like "surround bass".

However I suspect the Gigaworks S750 is already doing this.

It's electronics seperate the signals as above but instead of three receive=
s and 3 subwoofers it's simply 1 subwoofer with three voice coils for more =
fine grained bass/more control over bass.

So at least we agree on something: the tripple voice coil subwoofer is acce=
pting 3 inputs.

However those 3 inputs could be a mixed signal as described above as sinus/=
cosinus signals should mix quite easy.

What the Gigaworks is actually doing will remain a mystery for now.

One possible way to reverse engineering it is to place a monitor/volt meter=
or something on each coil, one at a time and play the same audio file and =
see what happens.

Also disconnecting some plugs/signals could shed further light on this.

This subwoofer is part of a 7.1 surround sound set.... so sending only left=
/center/right to it makes no sense what's so ever.

Why not send all 8 signals to it by mixing them down to 3 first ?

Also the subwoofer is rated at 210 RMS.

So how can you say it's only 3 watts ? Sounds weird to me.

This subwoofer is according to repair man and pictures and guys on forum po=
wered by 3 amplifiers each of 70 watts so you were dead wrong there or some=
thing is amiss

Also pretty much all speaker outputs are already used from the denon receiv=
er.

You did give me an idea though.

I could re-write some off the speaker outputs directly into the subwoofer, =
perhaps even the three seperate coils.

Then I would indeed how to get rid of cross over frequencies and make sure =
all signals are passed raw/unmodified or reverse it and send low frequencie=
s... not sure if denon can do this... but it's beside the point since denon=
in normal operation mode only has 1 subwoofer output.

So this *main stream* device can simply NOT do with the Gigaworks might be =
doing.

Which could mean the Gigaworks is a revolutionary home theater system which=
could explain why a Saboteur sabotaged the production facility to use "con=
ductive glue" Which would only reveal it self after Q&A already passe=
d the devices.

The Q&A did not test the devices properly to simulate prolonged use of heat=
..

Bye,
Skybuck.
  #17  
Old July 28th 17, 03:31 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
~misfit~[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

Once upon a time on usenet Peter Wieck wrote:
> On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 9:18:39 AM UTC-4,
> wrote:
>> Maybe something like this might work:
>>
>> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_021AMP....html?tp=48757
>>
>> Crutchfield seems to have all kinds of amplifiers...
>>
>> Expensive though...

>
> What are you trying to accomplish?


This guy is a known troll who usually lurks around the computer newsgroups.
He's been trolling for many years now and is quite good at it.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)


  #18  
Old July 28th 17, 05:57 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
Peter Wieck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,409
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

That makes sense. I was about to quote Schiller - well, perhaps I will anyway.

Against stupidity the very gods Themselves contend in vain.

I am no god, so I will quit contending.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
  #19  
Old July 29th 17, 01:52 PM posted to rec.audio.high-end
~misfit~[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Powering Cambridge 210w 8ohm Sub woofers

Once upon a time on usenet Peter Wieck wrote:
> That makes sense. I was about to quote Schiller - well, perhaps I
> will anyway.
>
> Against stupidity the very gods Themselves contend in vain.
>
> I am no god, so I will quit contending.


That's the policy I adopt with people like this too.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)


 




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