I just moved into an old house where we redid the kitchen and ran some
new wire for ceiling speakers in addition to our mains in the living
room. There was also some existing 14/4 CL2 cable run to the detached
garage. No conduit, just run through the walls to a small hole in an
outside wall and strung with some phone wires into the garage.

It is about 50-60 feet from my amp. This cable was then split into two
pairs for cheesy speakers in the garage. We like to entertain inside
and out, and replaced the garage speakers with a pair of JBL N24AWII
Northridge Outdoor speakers. Now, obviously with the long run to the
garage, those speakers are getting very little power. To get decent
volume outside, the inside speakers are way too loud.

What is my easiest (cheapest?) solution to bring up the volume for the
outside speakers?

Do I need another amp out there? Will a separate volume control for
those speakers do the trick?

Somewhere in the back of my brain I know the answer to this. I'm just
too lazy to work it out on my own!

Thanks for your thoughts!

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com

I just moved into an old house where we redid the kitchen
and ran some new wire for ceiling speakers in addition to
our mains in the living room. There was also some
existing 14/4 CL2 cable run to the detached garage. No
conduit, just run through the walls to a small hole in an
outside wall and strung with some phone wires into the
garage.

This could be some pretty good speaker cable.

It is about 50-60 feet from my amp. This cable was then
split into two pairs for cheesy speakers in the garage.
We like to entertain inside and out, and replaced the
garage speakers with a pair of JBL N24AWII Northridge
Outdoor speakers. Now, obviously with the long run to the
garage, those speakers are getting very little power.

Not obvious at all. 14 guage wire has 0.0026 ohms per foot. Each 60' pair
going out to the garage has a total resistance of 0.312 ohms. The JBL
N24AWII speakers are speced for 8 ohms, which puts the maximum loss in the
cable around 0.3 dB which is negligable in this situation.

To get decent volume outside, the inside speakers are way
too loud.

More likely, your indoor speakers have a higher effective efficiency than
the outdoor speakers. The JBL N24AWII have 86 dB/w sensitivity at 3 feet
which is a tad below average. You don't say what your main speakers are,
but the average home speaker is probably more efficient then the little
JBLs.

However, the effective effciency of the little JBL may greatly decreased by
differences in how and where they are used. Your living room and your garage
may have differing acoustics and people may tend to stand further away from
the little JBLs when they are listening to them.

Hopefully, you didn't inadvertantly short the wires going out to your
garage, as that would radically cut efficiency even further.

What is my easiest (cheapest?) solution to bring up the
volume for the outside speakers?

Turn off or attenuate the sound to the speakers in the house, or provide a
separate booster amp for the speakers in the garage.

Do I need another amp out there?

Maybe.

Will a separate volume control for those speakers do the trick?

Almost all remote volume controls that are sold for this purpose can only
decrease sound levels, not increase them.

Thanks for the detailed info, Arny. The indoor speakers are more
efficient. We have a pair of JBL SP6C speakers in the ceiling and our
mains are JBL Studio Series S38. I will check my connections out to the
garage speakers again to be sure. The speakers are mounted outside the
garage to feed sound to the back yard, so, yes, the acoustics are quite
different. I thought the length of that run would make more difference.
Thanks for the technical confirmation that it does not!

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com
Thanks for the detailed info, Arny. The indoor speakers
are more efficient. We have a pair of JBL SP6C speakers
in the ceiling and our mains are JBL Studio Series S38.

Stereophile gives the efficiency of the JBL Studio Series S38 as 91 dB/w and
states that they consider it to have relatively high efficiency.

Other sources give the efficiency of the JBL SP6C speakers as 88 dB/w

Both are greater than the 86 dB/watt sensitivity of the JBL N24AWII
Northridge speakers.

If you have both the S38 and SP6C running at the same time, their composite
efficiency is even higher than the more efficient of the two.

I will check my connections out to the garage speakers
again to be sure. The speakers are mounted outside the
garage to feed sound to the back yard, so, yes, the
acoustics are quite different. I thought the length of
that run would make more difference. Thanks for the
technical confirmation that it does not!

Hope you find a good solution.

Running all three at the same time and getting adequate volume outside
is the goal. It sounds like a separate amp for the outside speakers is
the way to go.

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just moved into an old house where we redid the kitchen and ran some
new wire for ceiling speakers in addition to our mains in the living
room. There was also some existing 14/4 CL2 cable run to the detached
garage. No conduit, just run through the walls to a small hole in an
outside wall and strung with some phone wires into the garage.

It is about 50-60 feet from my amp. This cable was then split into two
pairs for cheesy speakers in the garage. We like to entertain inside
and out, and replaced the garage speakers with a pair of JBL N24AWII
Northridge Outdoor speakers. Now, obviously with the long run to the
garage, those speakers are getting very little power. To get decent
volume outside, the inside speakers are way too loud.

What is my easiest (cheapest?) solution to bring up the volume for the
outside speakers?

Do I need another amp out there? Will a separate volume control for
those speakers do the trick?

Somewhere in the back of my brain I know the answer to this. I'm just
too lazy to work it out on my own!

Thanks for your thoughts!

I would purchase a used stereo receiver with a tape recorder loop. It
should cost less than $50. Now I'd run the tape recorder output of your
main receiver to the tape input on the receiver outdoors. You now have 2
choices outdoors: Any signal normally supplied by the new receiver, or the
same signal being played indoors, and the volume can be set independently.

Norm Strong

I was wondering about using an old receiver, Norm. I already have an
ancient Radio Shack receiver that the old owner left in the basement.
It's been so long I don't remember about the tape recorder loop--will
the tape output from my main receiver always match the source I have
selected? So , regardless of whether I am playing the radio, a CD, or a
DVD, the tape output will get that signal?

WirelessNut wrote:

I was wondering about using an old receiver, Norm. I already have an
ancient Radio Shack receiver that the old owner left in the basement.
It's been so long I don't remember about the tape recorder loop--will
the tape output from my main receiver always match the source I have
selected? So , regardless of whether I am playing the radio, a CD, or a
DVD, the tape output will get that signal?

Almost. Everything *except* whatever is plugged into the tape input
will go out the tape output. If you have a component plugged into tape
input it will not appear at the tape output. This is to curtail
feedback loops and every receiver that I've ever seen is designed this way.

If your receiver has a "preamp output" that will get everything. As for
the "slave" receiver, use any line level input (i.e. tape, aux etc. -
your Radio Shack box probably too old to have a CD inupt) Do not use the
phono input.

//Walt

"Walt" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:


If you have both the S38 and SP6C running at the same
time, their composite efficiency is even higher than the
more efficient of the two.

Eh? You got a funny definition of "composite efficiency"
or something?

What I mean is that operating the speakers at the same time will create a
louder sound than any of them operating at the same time.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Walt" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:

If you have both the S38 and SP6C running at the same
time, their composite efficiency is even higher than the
more efficient of the two.

Eh? You got a funny definition of "composite efficiency"
or something?

What I mean is that operating the speakers at the same time will create a
louder sound than any of them operating at the same time.

Ok. I usually think of efficiency as db SPL per watt, not just db SPL.
But yes, operating the speakers at the same time will produce more
sound. More != more efficient.

//Walt

"Walt" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Walt" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:

If you have both the S38 and SP6C running at the same
time, their composite efficiency is even higher than
the more efficient of the two.

Eh? You got a funny definition of "composite
efficiency" or something?

What I mean is that operating the speakers at the same
time will create a louder sound than any of them
operating at the same time.

Ok. I usually think of efficiency as db SPL per watt,
not just db SPL. But yes, operating the speakers at the
same time will produce more sound. More != more
efficient.

I see your point. However the standard means for measuring dB/watt are
based on the use of a constant voltage source. IOW the so-called dB/watt
efficiency is in reality more like dB per so many volts.

As you are probably aware, the customary voltage level for this measurement
is equvalent to one watt with an 8 ohm load, or about 3 volts.

This methodology has a known gotcha, since it is based on the rated
impedance of the speaker, not its actual impedance. Speakers that have
lower-than-rated impedances are in actuality systematically less efficient
than claimed.

This relates to the OP in that the source of the problem is different
effective or apparent (apparent is probably the better word) efficiencies,
and part of the difference comes from running two speakers in parallel.

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
ups.com...
I was wondering about using an old receiver, Norm. I already have an
ancient Radio Shack receiver that the old owner left in the basement.
It's been so long I don't remember about the tape recorder loop--will
the tape output from my main receiver always match the source I have
selected? So , regardless of whether I am playing the radio, a CD, or a
DVD, the tape output will get that signal?

Yes. That's perfect. Take the "to tapedeck input" connection from your
indoors system, and run it to "from tape deck output" on the remote
receiver. They'll match up perfectly.

Norm