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#1
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Detecting sinfulness in music
I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's
clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#2
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Scott Dorsey wrote:
I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. Hey, I'm a Christian, but this guy's an idiot! He has never read Bible, and he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. What he's talking about is not Christianity at all, he's simply describing what has become culturally acceptable in his denomination. St Augustine was once asked to summarize Christianity in one sentence. He replied that to be a Christian meant that you should "Love God, and do what you like". There's a lot of scope for misunderstanding that statement... Also, its quite clear that he has alot of musical talent - sax, guitar, piano and singing - yet he thinks that he must live by a code of does and don't in order to stay acceptable to God. I.E. don't play certain styles of music, or play certain beats because these are not acceptable to God. What he really means is that these styles are not acceptable to his denomination or his way of thinking. This guy has obviously never seen Christianity outside the narrow confines of his own denomination. I've been to conferences in Nigeria where there are 20,000 Christians singing together in their own syncopated African style, clapping off-beat rhythms, dancing around and generally having a great time - no hint of disapproval from God either... He should check out 1 Timothy 6:17. Just in case you haven't got a Bible handy, it says "...nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, /who giveth us richly all things to enjoy/". Maybe this preacher would like to have that verse deleted because it doesn't fit his doctrine... Like Einstein once said "If the facts don't fit the theory, then the facts must be wrong". :-P Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#3
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:21:44 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott I think his reaction is a good thing and should be encouraged. I attended a Opus Dei club in my youth. It took me years to recover after finding out that priest who took the music class had not only been to more rock concerts that I had, but also had a better record collection. Does no one consider what kind of effect this could have a rebellious kid? It's impossible to write shocking music nowadays. There are now TV advert soundtracks that would make Pierre Schaeffer blush. Even the background music of the local labour party political broadcast has a stinging acid bass line and breakbeats in it. The idea that this guy could be offended by boogie woogie piano gives me a warm feeling that all might not be lost. |
#5
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Detecting sinfulness in music
In article ,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott I'll bet he makes a better living than the average bar band does. -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x |
#6
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Detecting sinfulness in music
What an interesting video! I can't help but wonder if this guy
is doing some sort of satire. He's a pretty good musician! Scott Dorsey wrote: : I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's : clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly : but can't let himself do it. : http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html : --scott : -- : "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#7
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Apr 30, 5:36 pm, "Peter A. Stoll"
wrote: (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:f15c3o$rol$1 @panix2.panix.com: http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott I have a problem on the opposite end of the spectrum. Once or twice a year our church organist, who had a long career as a theatre organ player, is away on a Sunday to play a gig. For years I've been the substitute. The first problem is apparently that I play the piano instead of the organ. but the bigger problem is that I play "classical" music for most of my prelude/offertory/postlude selections. My problem is narrowly and specifically with the choir director's wife, who, since the director is mute as the result of a stroke a few years ago, functions as the church music director. She has made a brief disapproving comment, usually containing the word "classical" after most of my last few year's substitutions. More pointedly, she has supplied me with books of her husband's with "suitable" settings of hymn tunes for me to use instead (the stroke took out one hand completely, so he does not play anymore). So far as I can decipher, she views music in the church as solely a vehicle for carrying appropriate text. So, unlike the chap in the video, she has no problems with catchy music with any sort of beat, so long as the words fit her expectations. But a Schubert Trio, with no words ever set to it, just is not suitable for the Offertory. And a Scott Joplin rag (Postlude)!! well... (I confess my own mother, who thinks I can do no wrong musically, was pretty surprised that I played the Golliwog's Cakewalk from Debussy's Children's Corner in church--that was a Postlude). For my own part, I'm saddened as both a Christian and an amateur musician that the very considerable part of the West's great music written before the 19th century that was written for the Church is nearly vanished from churches. So far as I can decipher, this is mostly a marketing thing. Mainline denominations desperate for membership growth (or, more realistically, for slower membership decline) see the musical component of the Megachurches as a key tool and are all trooping into the same style. A more complete marketing understanding would think about segmentation and niches. Surely the fraction of the population to which the whole "Praise Band" style speaks is pretty well-served. Surely there is room for a few more styles, not all of the shipped from the Nashville commercial religious music machine. My problem is not with the Pastor. He was specifically happy with the Joplin. The choir director's wife must never have heard Pachelbel's Kanon. |
#8
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Apr 30, 2:21 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." I don't think I heard the preacher say that Rock and Roll and similar genres were sinful but rather that they were not appropriate for worship services. He seems to be very familiar with secular styles perhaps indicating that he has played some "dance" music at one time or another. As a minister, he can speak with some authority on what kinds of music should be played at church services although he does come off as somewhat of a fundamentalist. At least he is more open about music than the Taliban. |
#9
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Jay Kadis wrote:
In article , (Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott I'll bet he makes a better living than the average bar band does. -Jay Not if the bar band owns the bar business, building and land it's located on. -- Les Cargill |
#10
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Detecting sinfulness in music
jwvm wrote:
On Apr 30, 2:21 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." I don't think I heard the preacher say that Rock and Roll and similar genres were sinful but rather that they were not appropriate for worship services. He seems to be very familiar with secular styles perhaps indicating that he has played some "dance" music at one time or another. As a minister, he can speak with some authority on what kinds of music should be played at church services although he does come off as somewhat of a fundamentalist. At least he is more open about music than the Taliban. Damning with faint praise? |
#11
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"jwvm" wrote in message ups.com... On Apr 30, 2:21 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." I don't think I heard the preacher say that Rock and Roll and similar genres were sinful but rather that they were not appropriate for worship services. He states, "You recognize one melody was suited to praising God and the other melody, from the same instrument, played by the same person, was not suited to praise God, and music is meant, melodies are meant, to praise God." |
#12
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Jay Kadis wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html I'll bet he makes a better living than the average bar band does. From a look of it, he's a better musician than you find in the average bar band, too. Also, of course, he gets that tax break... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#13
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Detecting sinfulness in music
(Scott Dorsey) scribbled:
Jay Kadis wrote: (Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html I'll bet he makes a better living than the average bar band does. From a look of it, he's a better musician than you find in the average bar band, too. Also, of course, he gets that tax break... --scott Apparently, he has no idea that most of your classic hymns are actually bar tunes with different words put to them. |
#14
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Apr 30, 9:05 pm, "Scott Smith" wrote:
snip He states, "You recognize one melody was suited to praising God and the other melody, from the same instrument, played by the same person, was not suited to praise God, and music is meant, melodies are meant, to praise God." You may be right. He is kind of cagey in the video. Most preachers of his ilk will come right out and strongly condemn something that they don't like as sinful, maybe even with fire and brimstone thrown in. However, he tiptoes around the secular music issue. He does say that "Heart and Soul" is not a good song. The lyrics of this song are really pretty mild so he strongly leans toward a very conservative interpretation of appropriate secular music. I wonder what he thinks of the hand-clapping body-swaying celebrations of some fundamentalist churches or for that matter sacred music by the likes of Bach or Handel. He also took a swipe at, IIRC, Jimmy Swaggert for using "dance" music. His guidelines for sacred music are certainly very narrow and strict. With his numerous references to "dance" music, he would probably not view dancing as an appropriate form of amusement although marching would be fine. :-) |
#15
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On 30 Apr 2007 19:31:56 -0700, jwvm wrote:
With his numerous references to "dance" music, he would probably not view dancing as an appropriate form of amusement although marching would be fine. :-) In my part of the world there's an ancient joke about Baptists never having sex while standing. Someone might see them and assume that they were dancing. It's Ok to tell the joke because everyone knows that the most hardshell Baptists were the biggest Hellraisers in their younger days, so all hardness is forgiven. All good fortune, Chris Hornbeck |
#16
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On 30 Apr 2007 21:54:04 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Jay Kadis wrote: (Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html I'll bet he makes a better living than the average bar band does. From a look of it, he's a better musician than you find in the average bar band, too. Also, of course, he gets that tax break... I thought it was almost forgivable that the guitar was out of tune (I immediately identified the sound as an out-of-tune 12-string, without being able to see the individual tuning machines in the video), as he rather blatantly admits by trying to tweak it after having strummed a little bit (perhaps he could take some real-time tuning lessons from old Jimi Hendrix videos). Maybe the lights heated up the instrument and threw it out. But then he played the piano. I'm pretty sure this was not a psychoacoustic compression artifact - the piano was simply out of tune. If he can afford to have video made, wear the nice suit, get the tax breaks, I'd think he could have had the piano tuned. An out-of-tune instrument is truly sinful. --scott |
#17
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Ben Bradley wrote in
: But then he played the piano. I'm pretty sure this was not a psychoacoustic compression artifact - the piano was simply out of tune. If he can afford to have video made, wear the nice suit, get the tax breaks, I'd think he could have had the piano tuned. An out-of-tune instrument is truly sinful. Yes I agree the piano in the video is wildly out-of-tune. But pretty bad pianos and churches are not unknown companions. About 1973 I was a flunky at Tanglewood with scheduling responsibility for the vocal music activities. During an extra chorus rehearsal I had arranged at a non- preferred venue (Windsor Mountain School Theater), Seiji Ozawa commented on how bad the piano was by saying "that piano belongs in a church". I don't think it was an anticlerical comment--just realistic. One common problem is that the sanctuary being in use not so many hours per week, the folks paying for the heat only want to heat when people will be around. Huge temperature swings and piano (or pipe organ) tuning are not friends. Movement is another problem. |
#18
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Peter A. Stoll" wrote in message
. 97.138... For my own part, I'm saddened as both a Christian and an amateur musician that the very considerable part of the West's great music written before the 19th century that was written for the Church is nearly vanished from churches. So far as I can decipher, this is mostly a marketing thing. Mainline denominations desperate for membership growth (or, more realistically, for slower membership decline) see the musical component of the Megachurches as a key tool and are all trooping into the same style. A more complete marketing understanding would think about segmentation and niches. Surely the fraction of the population to which the whole "Praise Band" style speaks is pretty well-served. Surely there is room for a few more styles, not all of the shipped from the Nashville commercial religious music machine. My problem is not with the Pastor. He was specifically happy with the Joplin. I'd enjoy a Christian service that ended with Scott Joplin, and I'm not even a Christian. My rabbi is a former R&B singer who's still occasionally known to throw a James Brown vocal lick into the Hebrew, and made Sam Cooke's "A Change is Gonna Come" the centerpiece of his high holidays services. Pretty fair version of it, too. A few years ago, I attended midnight mass on Christmas Eve at the big Catholic church at St. Louis University, and was sadly disappointed to hear that most of the music was pablum, either written by people who thought Peter, Paul & Mary (the singing group, I hasten to add) were okay but a little too funky, or folks who wanted to write something that was both atonal and accessible. The only good songs all night were written by Bach -- a Protestant. About the only thing my ex-father-in-law (a preacher in the U.C.C.) really agreed upon was that modern church music sucked glue. Remember, the psalmist didn't say "Make a moderately pleasant but inoffensive noise unto the Lord." Peace, Paul |
#19
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Don P." wrote in message
... (Scott Dorsey) scribbled: From a look of it, he's a better musician than you find in the average bar band, too. Also, of course, he gets that tax break... --scott Apparently, he has no idea that most of your classic hymns are actually bar tunes with different words put to them. Unless you're in Yorkshire at Christmastime, when they sing hymns in bars. Peace, Paul |
#20
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Tue, 01 May 2007 06:03:49 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
wrote: I'd enjoy a Christian service that ended with Scott Joplin, and I'm not even a Christian. My rabbi is a former R&B singer who's still occasionally known to throw a James Brown vocal lick into the Hebrew, and made Sam Cooke's "A Change is Gonna Come" the centerpiece of his high holidays services. Pretty fair version of it, too. I'm only a two hour drive from Al Green's church in Memphis, but haven't been. If there is a vengeful God, mine is exactly the kind of inane slacking off that won't be forgiven. Much thanks, as always, Chris Hornbeck |
#21
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Well, I think Christian Rock bands are the spawn of Satan. |
#22
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Can you say fascist boys and girls?
If this guy wasn't so pathetic, he'd be scary. I waiting for his next video, where he starts burning the Beatles "records". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Tom "Jay Kadis" wrote in message ... In article , (Scott Dorsey) wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott I'll bet he makes a better living than the average bar band does. -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x |
#23
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:21:44 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ): I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slack...e_good_mu.html --scott I have no sympathy for that devil. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU |
#24
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Chris Whealy wrote:
Also, its quite clear that he has alot of musical talent - sax, guitar, piano and singing - yet he thinks that he must live by a code of does and don't in order to stay acceptable to God. I.E. don't play certain styles of music, or play certain beats because these are not acceptable to God. What he really means is that these styles are not acceptable to his denomination or his way of thinking. Well, he is saying that those sorts of music are not appropriate for worship. The PROBLEM is that if you take him at his word, it eliminates dance music like Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring and music that uses certain beats, like the Bach Magnificat. This guy has obviously never seen Christianity outside the narrow confines of his own denomination. I've been to conferences in Nigeria where there are 20,000 Christians singing together in their own syncopated African style, clapping off-beat rhythms, dancing around and generally having a great time - no hint of disapproval from God either... It sounds to me like he is very much concerned with keeping his body's desire under control. He wants to groove very, very badly, but he is concerned that he should not. Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring is _supposed_ to groove. He should check out 1 Timothy 6:17. Just in case you haven't got a Bible handy, it says "...nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, /who giveth us richly all things to enjoy/". Maybe this preacher would like to have that verse deleted because it doesn't fit his doctrine... He's not alone, though. What makes him unique is that he is able to articulate his doctrine in a clear way. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#25
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Well, he is saying that those sorts of music are not appropriate for worship. That's the rules and regulations of his denomination speaking. Please do not confuse this with Christianity. The PROBLEM is that if you take him at his word, it eliminates dance music like Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring and music that uses certain beats, like the Bach Magnificat. Good job then I don't take him at his word. I love Baroque music not only because of the counterpoint, but because it is very close to modern jazz. It sounds to me like he is very much concerned with keeping his body's desire under control. He wants to groove very, very badly, but he is concerned that he should not. This is very apparent. But it is also apparent (to me at least), that he does not understand the truth of Christianity. Instead he sees his faith simply as a list of things he is /not/ permitted to do. This my quotation from St Augustine and 1 Tim 6:17. True Christianity means you can "Love God, and do what you like". Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring is _supposed_ to groove. Someone once asked Glen Gould why he didn't play jazz. His answer was very perceptive: "Why do I need Jazz? I have Bach" He's not alone, though. What makes him unique is that he is able to articulate his doctrine in a clear way. True. But again, he is repeating his /doctrine/, and not the truth of Christianity. If Jesus were on earth today, many Christians would find Him unacceptable because he would not conform to their doctrinal rules and regulations. You can do all the wrong things for the right reasons, and God isn't in the slightest bit bothered about the outward behaviour. However, if you do all the right things for the wrong reasons, then your motives will be the problem. God looks at the heart, and not at the outward appearance. Frankly, God isn't much bothered about what melodies or rhythms are used in a praise service because He looks at people's hearts. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#26
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Chris,
he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. But how could ANY human claim to know what is acceptable to a god? For example, does god want you to be chaste and pure, or go forth and multiply? There are too many contradictions and human emotions expressed in the various bibles for me to take any of them seriously. :-) It seems to me that anyone who claims to know what god wants is really just showing his own prejudices and preferences. --Ethan |
#27
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Ethan Winer" wrote ...
But how could ANY human claim to know what is acceptable to a god? For example, does god want you to be chaste and pure, or go forth and multiply? Your lack of understanding the language does not imply that others don't understand it. There are too many contradictions and human emotions expressed in the various bibles for me to take any of them seriously. :-) It seems to me that anyone who claims to know what god wants is really just showing his own prejudices and preferences. Why did you think we would be interested in your personal interperetation? Do you want to hear mine? |
#28
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Hmmm,
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#29
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Ethan Winer" wrote:
Chris, he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. But how could ANY human claim to know what is acceptable to a god? For example, does god want you to be chaste and pure, or go forth and multiply? There are too many contradictions and human emotions expressed in the various bibles for me to take any of them seriously. :-) It seems to me that anyone who claims to know what god wants is really just showing his own prejudices and preferences. Obviously, if there is a god, everything is okay with her. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#30
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Richard Crowley wrote:
Your lack of understanding the language does not imply that others don't understand it. Right, after all, delusions are what we make of them. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#31
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
Scott Dorsey wrote: I found this sermon absolutely rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. It's clear the guy is actually a good musician and wants to rock out badly but can't let himself do it. Hey, I'm a Christian, but this guy's an idiot! I'll go with badly mislead. Unfortunately, he is mislead in ways I see far too closely in my own churches life. He has never read Bible, I'm sure he has read the Bible, but some people perceive what they want to perceive when they read. and he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. More to the point, he has a lot of misapprehensions. Let's call a spade a spade - this guy is pretty deep into classical Christian legalism. He's probably got the approval of the Pensicola Christian College (see wikipedia). What he's talking about is not Christianity at all, he's simply describing what has become culturally acceptable in his denomination. The span of what he is promoting is probably far narrower than a typical denomination. For example there are three churches that are long-standing members of the same Baptist denomination within 2 miles of my house. One of these churches might agree with Alan Ives, one of these churches basically does contemporary rock-based worship, and one tries to be "blended" - a sort of potpurri of traditional songs and chicken rock. St Augustine was once asked to summarize Christianity in one sentence. He replied that to be a Christian meant that you should "Love God, and do what you like". There's a lot of scope for misunderstanding that statement... I've got this obsession with following Matt 28:18-20. Also, its quite clear that he has alot of musical talent - sax, guitar, piano and singing - yet he thinks that he must live by a code of does and don't in order to stay acceptable to God. Yup, legalism. I.E. don't play certain styles of music, or play certain beats because these are not acceptable to God. It must be wonderful to know the mind of God so well, and on behalf of all of the cultures and people groups on earth. ;-) What he really means is that these styles are not acceptable to his denomination or his way of thinking. The latter. This guy has obviously never seen Christianity outside the narrow confines of his own denomination. He may have, but it probably gave him a headache. I've seen this happen up front and personal. Take certain traditionally-oriented people to a church that is obviously modern, agressive, and growing. They will become very unhappy. They won't like what they see. Too many bright lights and loud sounds. Too many people way too enthusiastic about the Lord and His Kingdom. I've been to conferences in Nigeria where there are 20,000 Christians singing together in their own syncopated African style, clapping off-beat rhythms, dancing around and generally having a great time - no hint of disapproval from God either... No bolts of lightening? ;-) He should check out 1 Timothy 6:17. Just in case you haven't got a Bible handy, it says "...nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, /who giveth us richly all things to enjoy/". Maybe this preacher would like to have that verse deleted because it doesn't fit his doctrine... I'm sure Alan Ives has got his spin on that. It probably involves straw men. Like Einstein once said "If the facts don't fit the theory, then the facts must be wrong". I recently was listening to a pastor who said something like: Some people think that God blesses only certain styles of worship (music). This pastor then rattled off the names of about 6 well-known churches that spanned the gamut of American Christian worship styles, all of which were growing both numerically and spiritually. The point is obvious - Christians should choose the worship style that is going to grow God's kingdom best in the mission field that God has put them into. Alan Ives isn't promoting that idea but something far broader and more legalistic, so AFAIK he's doing wrong. God help him! |
#32
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in
message Chris, he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. But how could ANY human claim to know what is acceptable to a god? For example, does god want you to be chaste and pure, or go forth and multiply? Bad theology. Sex within marriage is chaste and pure. There are too many contradictions and human emotions expressed in the various bibles for me to take any of them seriously. :-) Just guessing here, but you've already got enough things wrong that I think you need to study the subject a little more before further expressing yourself Ethan. It seems to me that anyone who claims to know what god wants is really just showing his own prejudices and preferences. I think that it is possible for people to know what God wants *them* to do, but many people go way beyond that and fall off the edge. |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Wed, 2 May 2007 09:18:46 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Bad theology. Sex within marriage is chaste and pure. Not the way most English people do it, it isn't ;-) d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Hank,
Obviously, if there is a god, everything is okay with her. Yeah, apparently war and poverty and extreme suffering by billions of people and animals every year are all part of her master plan... --Ethan |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message Chris, he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. But how could ANY human claim to know what is acceptable to a god? For example, does god want you to be chaste and pure, or go forth and multiply? Bad theology. Sex within marriage is chaste and pure. Sex is sex. There are too many contradictions and human emotions expressed in the various bibles for me to take any of them seriously. :-) Just guessing here, but you've already got enough things wrong that I think you need to study the subject a little more before further expressing yourself Ethan. Your selfdelusions are perfectly acceptable to you. It seems to me that anyone who claims to know what god wants is really just showing his own prejudices and preferences. I think that it is possible for people to know what God wants *them* to do, but many people go way beyond that and fall off the edge. Do you think Jesus would be hanging at Nascar races? -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Ethan Winer" wrote:
Hank, Obviously, if there is a god, everything is okay with her. Yeah, apparently war and poverty and extreme suffering by billions of people and animals every year are all part of her master plan... Hey, don't worry, Ethan, because there is Nascar. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. .. The span of what he is promoting is probably far narrower than a typical denomination. For example there are three churches that are long-standing members of the same Baptist denomination within 2 miles of my house. One of these churches might agree with Alan Ives, one of these churches basically does contemporary rock-based worship, and one tries to be "blended" - a sort of potpurri of traditional songs and chicken rock. Chicken rock? Peace, Paul |
#38
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Detecting sinfulness in music
Ethan Winer wrote:
Chris, he knows nothing of what is acceptable to God and what isn't. But how could ANY human claim to know what is acceptable to a god? For example, does god want you to be chaste and pure, or go forth and multiply? In a culture of primogeniture, the fatherhood of children is legal grounds for the distribution of property. Therefore, adultery was a form of ... theft, for lack of a better term. The Mosaic version of this is a lot earthier than the Byzantine version, which ... doesn't make any sense to hardly anybody. There are too many contradictions and human emotions expressed in the various bibles for me to take any of them seriously. :-) Well, whaddaya expect from people? It seems to me that anyone who claims to know what god wants is really just showing his own prejudices and preferences. There's a movement afoot to make religion a brain architecture thing. They'll find out that's a dead end, and the pendulum will swing the other way again. Religion is because the Egyptians needed a common cultural identity beyond what tribalism could support, and a means of synchronizing distributed agriculture. I dunno. You might find Dr. Gene Scott entertaining - he seems to be a pretty good linguist as well as preacher, and he does this sorta thing. Nothing like Dr. Gene back in the '80s after a night of depraved musical squalor. Good times. --Ethan -- Les Cargill |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
hank alrich wrote:
"Ethan Winer" wrote: Hank, Obviously, if there is a god, everything is okay with her. Yeah, apparently war and poverty and extreme suffering by billions of people and animals every year are all part of her master plan... Hey, don't worry, Ethan, because there is Nascar. Yes, but Ethan already covered that with that list of things. -- Les Cargill |
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Detecting sinfulness in music
On Wed, 02 May 2007 14:14:53 GMT, (Don Pearce)
wrote: Bad theology. Sex within marriage is chaste and pure. Not the way most English people do it, it isn't ;-) Or, as it's sometimes put, not if done right. Much thanks, as always, Chris Hornbeck "If you're doing this as a volunteer, don't." - Paul Stamler |
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