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John Williamson John Williamson is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On 22/01/2018 19:53, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The nice thing about living in the digital world, though, is
that you can do it at any point in the process and it works the same way.


Not to mention that if it doesn't work, you're always still at
generation one in the chain for quality when you try again.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

John Williamson wrote:
On 22/01/2018 19:53, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The nice thing about living in the digital world, though, is
that you can do it at any point in the process and it works the same way.


Not to mention that if it doesn't work, you're always still at
generation one in the chain for quality when you try again.


Yes, although the downside of that is that you can be caught ino the trap
of spending months trying different things to get it perfect, when it was
originally almost perfect.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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James Price[_5_] James Price[_5_] is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 3:32:10 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I don't understand the reluctance by so many people today to just use an
amp in a room.


In the case of apartment dwellers, it's not necessarily practical. However, I also think a number of guitarists are bewitched by the variety and convenience of modern amp modelers. Personally, I was impressed with the Kemper.
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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On 14-01-2018 21:03, James Price wrote:

On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:


The secret is in the amp and in the room. If it sounds big and full in
the room, that's half the struggle.


I like to put something like a 635A that has no low end on the amp, then
if possible (given leakage considerations) a mike five or ten feet away
so that you get some room sound. The room mike is going to be boomy, and
will have a sustain from the room sound. The amp mike will have a bright
but sharp sound that compensates for the boom.


& more wisdom


Thanks for the suggestion.


This particular individual is attached to going direct with an Axe FX II
rather than mic'ing up an amp, namely because the preset they use has
'their sound'.


Probably, but wants to sound louder and punchier. So to Scotts wise
words I will add: use an open back amplifier, set it at an angle to a
rear wall and use a stereophonic version of the close and far microphone
setup ploy.

Since the Axe FX is primarily used to record direct,
any room sound would have to be artificially created. Hardly ideal, but
options are limited.


Yes, they are, musician needs to follow advice to get larger and
punchier sound.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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[email protected] tompauleast@gmail.com is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?




You don't have to use amp sims any more, at least not with VST. There is
a free convolution VST - PULSE by Rosen Digital Audio - and you load
up an impulse response of your favorite amp and go.



I bought a Kemper Profiler which "profiles" the sound coming from a mic in front of an amp. They are REALLY, REALLY accurate. There are tons of A?B comparisons to judge for yourself. It ain't cheap at $1700, but I haven't mic'ed an AMP since it arrived last spring. Many of the Michael Britt profiles are free with it...Stunning. And it had bass amp profiles, and dozens of pedals, CRAZY. Where it departs from amp sims are in the clean sounds.. They have the depth and chime of real amps. The sounds are taken from real amps/


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[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

Does arrangement count? Like having
strong but well-spaced jabs at the
strings? Listen to first 30sec of 'Long
Cool Woman(In A Black Dress)' as
example.
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?



So, what is the difference between the profiles that the Kemper uses
and the impulse response samples used in convolution reverbs?


I don't really know the science behind it. Profiles are made by micing up your amp and having the profiler profile it....it plugs into the amp input and plays various sounds and measures what the amp/mic are doing to those sounds. Is that the same as convolution? Sounds similar


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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

"Les Cargill" wrote in message news
It could just be creating multiple convolutions and presenting a mix of

those. I am quite sure that they ain't saying

There's a lot more than convolution going on, because that can only model
the LTI characteristics. There are a wide variety of DSP blocks that they
use, including compressors, limiters, distortion generators, clippers,
gates, and of course, convolvers. They're modeling both linear and
non-linear characteristics.


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

wrote:

=20
So, what is the difference between the profiles that the Kemper uses=20
and the impulse response samples used in convolution reverbs?


I don't really know the science behind it. Profiles are made by micing up =
your amp and having the profiler profile it....it plugs into the amp input =
and plays various sounds and measures what the amp/mic are doing to those s=
ounds. Is that the same as convolution? Sounds similar


There are good and bad ways to do it. Doing room impulses is easy because
the room is linear... no matter what the level is, it behaves the same way
(even if, due to your ear being nonlinear, it may not always seem that way
in reality). Guitar amps aren't like that, they have tonal changes with
level. There are ways to model that with Volterra kernels and some people
have done that. Unfortunately you get a lot of latency with such things.
And validating the system is very very hard.

It just seems an awful lot of work to me, when you could just set a Champ
up in a corner and listen to it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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James Price[_5_] James Price[_5_] is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 8:32:05 PM UTC-6, Nil wrote:
On 30 Jan 2018, Nil wrote in rec.audio.pro:

So, what is the difference between the profiles that the Kemper uses
and the impulse response samples used in convolution reverbs?


In addition to capturing the IR, a profile also captures the
nonlinear behavior of an amp by analyzing a series of tones that
the Kemper sends into it.


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James Price[_5_] James Price[_5_] is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:39:44 AM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
tompauleast wrote:

=20
So, what is the difference between the profiles that the Kemper uses=20
and the impulse response samples used in convolution reverbs?


I don't really know the science behind it. Profiles are made by micing up =
your amp and having the profiler profile it....it plugs into the amp input =
and plays various sounds and measures what the amp/mic are doing to those s=
ounds. Is that the same as convolution? Sounds similar


There are good and bad ways to do it. Doing room impulses is easy because
the room is linear... no matter what the level is, it behaves the same way
(even if, due to your ear being nonlinear, it may not always seem that way
in reality). Guitar amps aren't like that, they have tonal changes with
level. There are ways to model that with Volterra kernels and some people
have done that. Unfortunately you get a lot of latency with such things.
And validating the system is very very hard.

It just seems an awful lot of work to me, when you could just set a Champ
up in a corner and listen to it.


In my opinion, one advantage of the Kemper is continuity. If you want
or need to do a punch in a week after a session for whatever reason,
you can reproduce the exact same tone easily.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

James Price wrote:

In my opinion, one advantage of the Kemper is continuity. If you want
or need to do a punch in a week after a session for whatever reason,
you can reproduce the exact same tone easily.


Now THAT is the most reasonable thing anyone has ever said in favor of
modelling. It's not enough to sell me on the idea, but it makes very good
sense.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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geoff geoff is offline
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On 3/02/2018 7:34 AM, James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 8:32:05 PM UTC-6, Nil wrote:
On 30 Jan 2018, Nil wrote in rec.audio.pro:

So, what is the difference between the profiles that the Kemper uses
and the impulse response samples used in convolution reverbs?


In addition to capturing the IR, a profile also captures the
nonlinear behavior of an amp by analyzing a series of tones that
the Kemper sends into it.


Hopefully with the user making a huge number of changes to the input
gain, tone, and master gains of that amp .

Unless it's just a few specific sounds of that amp being modeled ...

geoff
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Default Getting more punch from heavily distorted guitars?

On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 3:54:38 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 3/02/2018 7:34 AM, James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 8:32:05 PM UTC-6, Nil wrote:
On 30 Jan 2018, Nil wrote in rec.audio.pro:

So, what is the difference between the profiles that the Kemper uses
and the impulse response samples used in convolution reverbs?


In addition to capturing the IR, a profile also captures the
nonlinear behavior of an amp by analyzing a series of tones that
the Kemper sends into it.


Hopefully with the user making a huge number of changes to the input
gain, tone, and master gains of that amp .


Unless it's just a few specific sounds of that amp being modeled ...


A profile is basically a snapshot of an amp at whatever settings the
amp is profiled at. There are tone controls, however they don't
conform to the sound of the original amp beyond a very limited
range. For that reason, users often create multiple profiles of
an amp at various settings.
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