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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning


** Hi,


a regular customer with a PA hire business owns an ADAT machine ( black face) and some VHS cassettes of live performances he made in the 1990s.

The dragged out the tapes recently and they played OK for a while but now he gets the "error 7" message.

Has he got any chance of successfully cleaning the heads and playing his nostalgia tapes or is he kidding himself ?

We know about the various dire warnings and to ONLY use a no longer available 3M cleaning tape.


BTW:

I am curious about how ADAT 8 track digital works but Google does not turn up much. I understand the transport is basically VHS with everything going at three times normal speed.



..... Phil


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

Phil Allison wrote:

a regular customer with a PA hire business owns an ADAT machine ( black face) and some VHS cassettes of live performances he made in the 1990s.

The dragged out the tapes recently and they played OK for a while but now he gets the "error 7" message.

Has he got any chance of successfully cleaning the heads and playing his nostalgia tapes or is he kidding himself ?


He should replace all belts and the pinch roller. In the US, a kit is
available from PRB/Russell Industries. Then he should clean the heads with
alcohol and swabs just like cleaning a VCR by hand.

There is an alignment procedure in the manual where you adjust the tape
path while watching various points on a scope. You likely won't have to
do this, but it won't hurt.

All of these procedures pretty much need to be done every couple years during
normal studio use. If a machine has been sitting around in a closet for years
you're going to have to make up for that maintenance.

We know about the various dire warnings and to ONLY use a no longer available 3M cleaning tape.


I've never used the cleaning tapes, I've only done it by hand. But if the
machine has belts that are more than five years old, they are bad.

SOME of these machines also have an issue with the preamp IC in the head
drum failing. I forget the details, but it was fixed after a certain serial
number.

I am curious about how ADAT 8 track digital works but Google does not turn up much. I understand the transport is basically VHS with everything going at three times normal speed.


It's putting NRZI data down on the tape directly with the flying head. It's
all running faster in order to get a higher channel bandwidth than you would
need with a conventional video system. There used to be all kinds of cool
stuff FAQ for the ADAT mailing list if it even still exists. They were truly
horrible machines.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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darrelld darrelld is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.
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[email protected] jjaj1998@netscape.net is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 2:42:29 PM UTC-4, darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


THISSOME?....http://www.tangible-technology.com/a...ORmessages.htm
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


It's all in the service manual which is available for download. Anything
not in the service manual is probably on Eddie Ciletti's site. But honestly
this machine probably just needs an annual service to be done.

Considering how horrible they are mechanically, they actually keep working
pretty well, and although the D/A converters are pretty bad, the original A/D
conversion wasn't as awful so pulling lightpipe data out of them can actually
get surprising sound quality.

I took the DTRS route instead and I'm still using DTRS machines on a few
gigs a year.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

Scott Dorsey wrote:
darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the
cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


It's all in the service manual which is available for download.
Anything not in the service manual is probably on Eddie Ciletti's
site. But honestly this machine probably just needs an annual
service to be done.

Considering how horrible they are mechanically, they actually keep
working pretty well, and although the D/A converters are pretty bad,
the original A/D conversion wasn't as awful so pulling lightpipe data
out of them can actually get surprising sound quality.


That's what Rick Rubin used on the first album he recorded of Johnny
Cash, the one released in 1994. That was probably the most portable
solution he had and one of the constraints of that recording was
that it sort of had to be done at Cash's place.

Those sound fine to my ear. I'm not aware of any Lightpipe external
gear available then. Perhaps he could have run the digital off to a
hard disk machine - the track count was very low.

I took the DTRS route instead and I'm still using DTRS machines on a
few gigs a year. --scott


--
Les Cargill


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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

Scott Dorsey wrote:

------------------------



He should replace all belts and the pinch roller. In the US, a kit is
available from PRB/Russell Industries. Then he should clean the heads with
alcohol and swabs just like cleaning a VCR by hand.

There is an alignment procedure in the manual where you adjust the tape
path while watching various points on a scope. You likely won't have to
do this, but it won't hurt.

All of these procedures pretty much need to be done every couple years during
normal studio use. If a machine has been sitting around in a closet for years
you're going to have to make up for that maintenance.

We know about the various dire warnings and to ONLY use a no longer available 3M cleaning tape.


I've never used the cleaning tapes, I've only done it by hand. But if the
machine has belts that are more than five years old, they are bad.


** I'll pass that info on - thanks.



I am curious about how ADAT 8 track digital works but Google does not turn up much. I understand the transport is basically VHS with everything going at three times normal speed.


It's putting NRZI data down on the tape directly with the flying head. It's
all running faster in order to get a higher channel bandwidth than you would
need with a conventional video system.


** That means the bit rate on the tape ( at 48K and 16 bit) is gonna be over 6MHz, not allowing for some redundancy for error correction.

There used to be all kinds of cool
stuff FAQ for the ADAT mailing list if it even still exists. They were truly
horrible machines.


** Google tells me Alesis sold over 100,000 of them.

That's a heck of a lot of small studios and location recording.


...... Phil
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

Phil Allison wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

It's putting NRZI data down on the tape directly with the flying head. It's
all running faster in order to get a higher channel bandwidth than you would
need with a conventional video system.


** That means the bit rate on the tape ( at 48K and 16 bit) is gonna be over 6MHz, not allowing for some redundancy for error correction.


Yep!

There used to be all kinds of cool
stuff FAQ for the ADAT mailing list if it even still exists. They were truly
horrible machines.


** Google tells me Alesis sold over 100,000 of them.

That's a heck of a lot of small studios and location recording.


It is, and for a while every studio in the country had a couple of them.
Small studios used them exclusively, bigger studios kept their analogue
machines and even advertised that they didn't do digital, but they got
a couple in the back room to do transfers because it was just such a
ubiquitous format.

It didn't last so long, but it was everywhere for a while. It's part of
what gave digital recording a bad name back then.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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darrelld darrelld is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 1:42:29 PM UTC-5, darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


Phil, I have the service manual as Scott mentioned. I can't find the link I had 10 years ago, but there are lots of Youtube videos on topic. Gareth's approach is what I use, essentially, and you can use lint-less swabs too. Use as pure alcohol as you can get and other than the helical head, clean the tape path ala a reel to real or cassette deck.

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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

wrote:

-------------------------------
On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 2:42:29 PM UTC-4, darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


THISSOME?....http://www.tangible-technology.com/a...ORmessages.htm


** This "head cleaning" page is from the same site:


http://www.tangible-technology.com/h.../swabbing.html


...... Phil


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[email protected] jjaj1998@netscape.net is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 6:10:38 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the
cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


It's all in the service manual which is available for download.
Anything not in the service manual is probably on Eddie Ciletti's
site. But honestly this machine probably just needs an annual
service to be done.

Considering how horrible they are mechanically, they actually keep
working pretty well, and although the D/A converters are pretty bad,
the original A/D conversion wasn't as awful so pulling lightpipe data
out of them can actually get surprising sound quality.


That's what Rick Rubin used on the first album he recorded of Johnny
Cash, the one released in 1994. That was probably the most portable
solution he had and one of the constraints of that recording was
that it sort of had to be done at Cash's place.



All I know about Johnny Cash is, FINALLY (after decades) getting to hear the uncensored version of A Boy Named Sue!! The words Bitch and Damn were censored!! Want to hear? Here...

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abps...amedsue-us.mp3

Jack

Those sound fine to my ear. I'm not aware of any Lightpipe external
gear available then. Perhaps he could have run the digital off to a
hard disk machine - the track count was very low.

I took the DTRS route instead and I'm still using DTRS machines on a
few gigs a year. --scott


--
Les Cargill


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[email protected] jjaj1998@netscape.net is offline
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Default ADAT head cleaning

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 10:18:36 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
wrote:

-------------------------------
On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 2:42:29 PM UTC-4, darrelld wrote:
Phil, when I get to my studio PC, I will post the link to the cleaning instructions and other ADAT error code info.


THISSOME?....http://www.tangible-technology.com/a...ORmessages.htm


** This "head cleaning" page is from the same site:


http://www.tangible-technology.com/h.../swabbing.html


Head cleaning? I recommend Head & Shoulders for that!! :-)

Thanks, Phil!

Jack


..... Phil


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