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Show display makes point of using low cost gear
Here is a link recieved in a mailing list. The author is a high end
manufacture and inventer/developer/author of speakers. He is reporting on his experience at a recent audio show. He made a specific point of using low cost audio gear, something around $200 for the lot, to display his products. I agree with most of his views and would like to see the reactions of others. "From Dr. Earl Geddes' site: http://gedlee.com/downloads/Observations%20and%20Thoughts.pdf" |
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I thought that you said you own Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers.
Have you traded them for a Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers? -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 7 Oct 2005 01:57:50 GMT, wrote: Here is a link recieved in a mailing list. The author is a high end manufacture and inventer/developer/author of speakers. He is reporting on his experience at a recent audio show. He made a specific point of using low cost audio gear, something around $200 for the lot, to display his products. I agree with most of his views and would like to see the reactions of others. "From Dr. Earl Geddes' site: http://gedlee.com/downloads/Observations%20and%20Thoughts.pdf" I've been saying exactly the same thing for at least a decade. Looks like the 'High End' chickens are finally coming home to roost. Perhaps Abe Lincoln was right about fooling people.......... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#5
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Uptown Audio wrote:
I thought that you said you own Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers. Have you traded them for a Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers? -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 That's interesting. When did anyone say that Apogee speakers and Bose speakers sound the same or are interchangeable? Even if you can find a Pioneer receiver that sounds the same as a Krell, over all power and load conditions, there are many other non-sonic attributes leading to a preference of one over the other. Wonder what did you really find funny about (as suggested in your title)? |
#6
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On 8 Oct 2005 22:29:23 GMT, Uptown Audio wrote:
I thought that you said you own Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers. Have you traded them for a Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers? I certainly wouldn't buy them from you! :-) Note particularly that I've owned those units for more than ten years, which is probably what worries a 'high end' boutique owner like you. No unnecessary churning of perfectly adequate gear really does mean the end of 'high-end' audio in the conventional sense, because truly high-end *quality* is now available to all without the need for 'designer nametags'. I note also your sly attempt to distort what I said, which most definitely did not include speakers. As I have been saying for a long time now, this is where most of the system budget should go, because they really *do* make a difference. Sweep all those laser-etched half-inch thick faceplates off your shelves, and make space for more Avalons, Quads and B&Ws! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#7
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"Chung" wrote in message
... Uptown Audio wrote: I thought that you said you own Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers. Have you traded them for a Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers? -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 That's interesting. When did anyone say that Apogee speakers and Bose speakers sound the same or are interchangeable? Even if you can find a Pioneer receiver that sounds the same as a Krell, over all power and load conditions, there are many other non-sonic attributes leading to a preference of one over the other. Wonder what did you really find funny about (as suggested in your title)? I'm sure what Bill means is that both Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers are generally accepted as high-end audio components whereas the Bose speakers and Pioneer receiver may be considered as not. There are and have been all too many poorly engineered high-end components with elevated prices that has put the industry as a whole into disrepute, including that of the burgeoning snakeoil accessory industry. I do feel the often blanket damnation of all things high-end is at times unjustified. Stewart would have chosen both his amplifier and speakers carefully from the high-end component selection available at that time using both his engineering and sonic judgements. I did likewise with my Infinity Reference speakers and NRG amplifier and I still admire the performance and engineering of both as I'm sure Stewart does of his. If with ever advancing technology the audio industry can provide good sound for less then great but what appears to be continuing in the high end is the astronomical nay stratospheric rise in component price. Anyone here got a £25K amp? Mike |
#8
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wrote in message ...
Here is a link recieved in a mailing list. The author is a high end manufacture and inventer/developer/author of speakers. He is reporting on his experience at a recent audio show. He made a specific point of using low cost audio gear, something around $200 for the lot, to display his products. I agree with most of his views and would like to see the reactions of others. "From Dr. Earl Geddes' site: http://gedlee.com/downloads/Observations%20and%20Thoughts.pdf" I can't find a lot to disagree with, other than his comments that some people might be able to hear differences in cables, but I do agree that even if it were possible, I don't care since the speaker/room interface is vastly more important and makes muchmore difference than anything else an audiophile can doo. With what do you disagree? |
#9
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"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
... "Chung" wrote in message ... Uptown Audio wrote: I thought that you said you own Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers. Have you traded them for a Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers? -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 That's interesting. When did anyone say that Apogee speakers and Bose speakers sound the same or are interchangeable? Even if you can find a Pioneer receiver that sounds the same as a Krell, over all power and load conditions, there are many other non-sonic attributes leading to a preference of one over the other. Wonder what did you really find funny about (as suggested in your title)? I'm sure what Bill means is that both Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers are generally accepted as high-end audio components whereas the Bose speakers and Pioneer receiver may be considered as not. With respect to Pioneer, that judgement, (that they are bad) doesn't seem to coincide with reality. I recently had a chance to compare a Pioneer VSX-1015TX to an Acoustat 120wpc amp, and could find no difference. There are and have been all too many poorly engineered high-end components with elevated prices that has put the industry as a whole into disrepute, including that of the burgeoning snakeoil accessory industry. It is my contention that high prices are the least of the problems facing the High Enders. The biggest problem is the long list of of outright fraudulent products that can not actually do anything, let alone what they claim I do feel the often blanket damnation of all things high-end is at times unjustified. What, aside from speakers, in your opinion, really quailifes as true High End? Stewart would have chosen both his amplifier and speakers carefully from the high-end component selection available at that time using both his engineering and sonic judgements. He has stated many times that he got the Krell amp at a price that mad it a good buy and because of it's reputation it was good to have as an unassailable reference. I did likewise with my Infinity Reference speakers and NRG amplifier and I still admire the performance and engineering of both as I'm sure Stewart does of his. If with ever advancing technology the audio industry can provide good sound for less then great but what appears to be continuing in the high end is the astronomical nay stratospheric rise in component price. Anyone here got a £25K amp? Nope, nd never will even if I should have the disposable income to afford one. There's nothing to be gained, other than braggin rights and I have no need for such things. |
#10
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On 9 Oct 2005 17:40:29 GMT, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote: "Chung" wrote in message ... Uptown Audio wrote: I thought that you said you own Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers. Have you traded them for a Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers? -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 That's interesting. When did anyone say that Apogee speakers and Bose speakers sound the same or are interchangeable? Even if you can find a Pioneer receiver that sounds the same as a Krell, over all power and load conditions, there are many other non-sonic attributes leading to a preference of one over the other. Wonder what did you really find funny about (as suggested in your title)? I'm sure what Bill means is that both Krell amplifiers and Apogee speakers are generally accepted as high-end audio components whereas the Bose speakers and Pioneer receiver may be considered as not. There are and have been all too many poorly engineered high-end components with elevated prices that has put the industry as a whole into disrepute, including that of the burgeoning snakeoil accessory industry. I do feel the often blanket damnation of all things high-end is at times unjustified. Stewart would have chosen both his amplifier and speakers carefully from the high-end component selection available at that time using both his engineering and sonic judgements. I did likewise with my Infinity Reference speakers and NRG amplifier and I still admire the performance and engineering of both as I'm sure Stewart does of his. Correct, and furthermore I've been happy with them for ten years now, I have heard numerous amps which sound just the same as the Krell, and I feel no need to change. Why would I buy a Pioneer receiver when I already have a perfectly good amp? That's storekeeper Bill's real problem - audiophiles are catching on to the awful fact that they don't need to buy new gear every year. Of course, the Bose thing was just a typical strawman, as I have never suggested that speakers don't make a difference. If with ever advancing technology the audio industry can provide good sound for less then great but what appears to be continuing in the high end is the astronomical nay stratospheric rise in component price. Anyone here got a £25K amp? No, but there are plenty available from Bill and co! You might even get some discount, things being the way they are in the high end these days............... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#11
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On 10 Oct 2005 00:43:30 GMT, "
wrote: "Mike Gilmour" wrote in message ... Stewart would have chosen both his amplifier and speakers carefully from the high-end component selection available at that time using both his engineering and sonic judgements. He has stated many times that he got the Krell amp at a price that mad it a good buy and because of it's reputation it was good to have as an unassailable reference. Quite so, and it's always amusing to see the 'high-enders' thrashing both ends of the same strawman. I get frequent snide comments that if I'm an 'objectivist', why do I not change my Krell and Apogee for Pioneer and Bose (although strangely, my 'entry level high end' vinyl replay gear never gets attacked.......). Note that they always mnention the speakers, despite *no one* ever having suggested that speakers don't make a difference. Note also that these comments are always made by regular posters who are well aware of the philosophy behind my purchases, so these questions are fundamentally dishonest. At the same time, any 'objectivist' who is *not* in possession of fancy label 'high end' gear is always told that he has 'obviously' never heard really good reproduction. Fascinating arguments, no? -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#12
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... On 10 Oct 2005 00:43:30 GMT, " wrote: "Mike Gilmour" wrote in message ... Stewart would have chosen both his amplifier and speakers carefully from the high-end component selection available at that time using both his engineering and sonic judgements. He has stated many times that he got the Krell amp at a price that mad it a good buy and because of it's reputation it was good to have as an unassailable reference. Quite so, and it's always amusing to see the 'high-enders' thrashing both ends of the same strawman. I get frequent snide comments that if I'm an 'objectivist', why do I not change my Krell and Apogee for Pioneer and Bose (although strangely, my 'entry level high end' vinyl replay gear never gets attacked.......). Note that they always mnention the speakers, despite *no one* ever having suggested that speakers don't make a difference. Note also that these comments are always made by regular posters who are well aware of the philosophy behind my purchases, so these questions are fundamentally dishonest. At the same time, any 'objectivist' who is *not* in possession of fancy label 'high end' gear is always told that he has 'obviously' never heard really good reproduction. Fascinating arguments, no? -- If by that you mean tired, old, and demonstrably untrue, then yes. The snobbery of audiophiles has always been bewildering to me. I don't know of any other hobby where it is so. Generally the best of a given thing is known and those who can afford it if it's expensive purchase it, and if they can't, nobody ridicules them, or tells them they don't know what good is. I have a very hard time with the idea that there is much to claim as high end other than speakers. I can understand why it might be so in turntables, as there is a fair amount of precision involved, but I don't see the need to invest that kind of money for an antique playback mode. And yes before anybody asks again, I have heard some of the very best turntables made. None of them ever beat out a good recording on CD, for me. Would I be correct in assuming that you agree that for loudspeakers there are not many that can equal or even compete with the current Dynaudio products? Anything other than Sigried Linkwitz's that are good in DIY? |
#13
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" wrote in message
... wrote in message ... Here is a link recieved in a mailing list. The author is a high end manufacture and inventer/developer/author of speakers. He is reporting on his experience at a recent audio show. He made a specific point of using low cost audio gear, something around $200 for the lot, to display his products. I agree with most of his views and would like to see the reactions of others. "From Dr. Earl Geddes' site: http://gedlee.com/downloads/Observations%20and%20Thoughts.pdf" I can't find a lot to disagree with, other than his comments that some people might be able to hear differences in cables, but I do agree that even if it were possible, I don't care since the speaker/room interface is vastly more important and makes muchmore difference than anything else an audiophile can doo. With what do you disagree? Yes and no. I never could hear any difference in either cable or wire. When the wire and cable craze first arose I was given some Fulton interconnect and Mark Levinson speaker wire to try. I couldn't hear any differences way back then, and even if things have improved since then, my hearing certainly hasn't. It's obvious that when some folks are unable to modify their speaker/room interface they resort to other methods to ameliorate a bad situation. When things don't change they then seek comfort in assuring themselves that things got "fixed" (to some degree). |
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