All the major transformer houses put out books of amplifiers you could
build with their transformers and some of these are very good designs.
Unfortunately the transformers are all in landfills or Japan. There is
AFAIK no credible company building any of the old desgns in the U.S. at
this time.

wrote:
All the major transformer houses put out books of amplifiers you
could
build with their transformers and some of these are very good
designs.
Unfortunately the transformers are all in landfills or Japan. There
is
AFAIK no credible company building any of the old desgns in the U.S.
at
this time.

Fortunately, there are lots of old amps that need maintainence right
here. Put an ad in the local paper, several sections for a couple of
weeks, saying "wanted: old tube audio gear," and see what you get.

Hit the pawn shops and thrift stores, too. I know a guy that buys
off-brand organs and scraps them for tubes and iron. I bought a ST70
without a circuit board so I can design my own preamp. I look up
designs on the internet and buy the apropriate Hammond transformers.

Karl

Dances With Sockpuppets wrote:

wrote:
All the major transformer houses put out books of amplifiers you
could
build with their transformers and some of these are very good
designs.
Unfortunately the transformers are all in landfills or Japan. There
is
AFAIK no credible company building any of the old desgns in the U.S.
at
this time.

Fortunately, there are lots of old amps that need maintainence right
here. Put an ad in the local paper, several sections for a couple of
weeks, saying "wanted: old tube audio gear," and see what you get.

Hit the pawn shops and thrift stores, too. I know a guy that buys
off-brand organs and scraps them for tubes and iron. I bought a ST70
without a circuit board so I can design my own preamp. I look up
designs on the internet and buy the apropriate Hammond transformers.

Karl

There is a still probably much tube gear in the US which is slowly
surfacing from the depths of rural america, and also from the
older suburban neighbour hoods where an older generation bought the gear
for
nightime entertainment.
Probably a lot just being trashed as well.

There are a few winders in the US making OPTs as good as has been done,
they don't appear much on this forum, lest they get into a verbal brawl.

But almost no DIYers want to pay more than the Hammond price
for trannies.
Hammond quality is Hammond quality.
Better costs more, and worse isn't worth buying.
Better means something custom wound, so there are no economies of scale,
so expect to pay 4 times more for something
*different* to a Hammond, and perhaps better.

Who can make a good living hand winding OPTs to suit the old brands,
but made to a **BETTER** standard than used in amps like
ST70 et all? Almost nobody.

The demand for such items isn't large, and everyone wants a different
size, different impedance ratio, and nobody can wind 1,000
units and sell them quickly to earn a living.

Not too many tubes made in the US either.
And probably not many other things like R or C, switches, wire, etc.

The US used to be a leader at manufacturing, or am I wrong?

In Oz we used to have a home country based electronics industry
with tube making, and complete making of radios, then TVs,
and many other gadgets.

Not any more, because the asian economies were able to gear up
to make all manner of consumer goods in batches of
200,000, not just 5,000, and because asian wages for a 12 hr day, 6 days a
week
might be $3 per week.

I saw a Plasma TV the other day, with a screen over 5 foot long and about
3 foot high, and in a huge cabinet.
Not a bad picture.
In 4 years time when the price comes down about 60%,
I might buy one.

The electronics is like a PC mother board, not much to look at.

But it sat there in the shop for Aud $9,000,
alongside a McIntosh 275 tube amp retro reissue for
$4,300, and a not well known brand of chinese 40/40 amp for $2,500.

I don't recall seeing a single Oz made audio-visual item anywhere in the
store.
Just wall to wall chinese stuff plus a little US and other coutry stuff.

Anyway, what is and isn't available is due to supply and demand.


Patrick Turner.

Tube organs with the exception of Allen did not usually have anything
you'd really want for hi-fi.

Many of the tube people who are DIYers are pathetically cheap and more
than a small number, are stupid as well. The High End products offered
often do not use a terribly excellent output transformer.

There is no more great unwashed supply of vintage anything in the US
anymore. Everyone has a computer and knows that old hi-fi, old guitars,
you name it, is worth a bunch. eBay has pretty well put the blocks to
the old line trunk gypsies and flimflam artists who ****ed old widows
(Sumner, damn your eyes...) out of hi-fi and smalltown theater building
owners out of Altec horns and 604s and WE gear. Now they are all making
phony Fender guitars.

wrote:

Tube organs with the exception of Allen did not usually have anything
you'd really want for hi-fi.

Many of the tube people who are DIYers are pathetically cheap and more
than a small number, are stupid as well. The High End products offered
often do not use a terribly excellent output transformer.

This isn't quite always the case.

But one does pay an extraordinary amount to get decent OPTs
within the likes of ARC and CJ.



There is no more great unwashed supply of vintage anything in the US
anymore. Everyone has a computer and knows that old hi-fi, old guitars,
you name it, is worth a bunch. eBay has pretty well put the blocks to
the old line trunk gypsies and flimflam artists who ****ed old widows
(Sumner, damn your eyes...) out of hi-fi and smalltown theater building
owners out of Altec horns and 604s and WE gear. Now they are all making
phony Fender guitars.

Judging by the "unwashed amps" and receivers I get to repair after they
have been purchased
on Ebay for a fraction of the price paid in real terms for the new item,
there is still a lotta old crap out there
to be had.

I find there is nothing marvellous about the old OPTs used in
any of the pre 1965 amps.

I have yet to find a single sample which comes close to anything I would
wind now
in terms of winding losses, iron caused distortion, leakage inductance,
frequency of saturation, etc.

Hardly anyone knows about OPTs, They are a complete mystery to 95%
of tube device consumers, so they can very easily be fooled, and they
continue to be fooled
as they always have been.

The whole reason I began to ignore opportunities for aquiring old junk from

which I could re-cycle the OPTs was that its not right to
lumber a customer with a tranny that's already 40 years old
except for the paint, and a tranny that just is plain sub standard.

Nevertheless I have a pile of junk for spares if I ever need one.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner wrote:

I have yet to find a single sample which comes close to anything I
would
wind now
in terms of winding losses, iron caused distortion, leakage
inductance,
frequency of saturation, etc.

Hardly anyone knows about OPTs, They are a complete mystery to 95%
of tube device consumers, so they can very easily be fooled, and they
continue to be fooled
as they always have been.

OK, I'll bite. Which manufacturers (besides yourself) would you
recommend today?

And how do my ST70 OPTs and Hammond trannys stand up to them?

Do you have a website with your custom tranny wiring service info? Oh,
wait. Here it is: http://www.turneraudio.com.au/ I'll have to browse
that site when I have time. Cool looking amps there.

Karl

Do you have data sheets with the parameters of your products-you know,
like primary inductance, leakage inductance, insertion loss, those kind
of things?

Also, someone asked me about KT88 prices. Didn't mean to blow you off,
I have no idea, I haven't bought one in a long time.

Dances With Sockpuppets wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:

I have yet to find a single sample which comes close to anything I
would
wind now
in terms of winding losses, iron caused distortion, leakage
inductance,
frequency of saturation, etc.

Hardly anyone knows about OPTs, They are a complete mystery to 95%
of tube device consumers, so they can very easily be fooled, and they
continue to be fooled
as they always have been.

OK, I'll bite. Which manufacturers (besides yourself) would you
recommend today?

ARC, CJ, Jadis maybe, VTL maybe.

Specialists tranny winders like Sowter and Plitron, maybe Lundahl,
Bertolucci maybe.

Very few makers of amplifiers or transfromers actually
give you the exact winding details, so there is no way one
can verify exactly if they are OK, and compare them
without the mist of sales talk clouding one's vision.

Tranny makers like to keep things secret; they wouldn't like
anyone to copy them, or wind their own.



And how do my ST70 OPTs and Hammond trannys stand up to them?

ST70 is a reasonable sample of OPT. I did not have too much trouble
stabilizing the ST70 when I entirely revised one a few years back.
It was a lot better than a Leak, and better than a QuadII imho.




Do you have a website with your custom tranny wiring service info? Oh,
wait. Here it is: http://www.turneraudio.com.au/ I'll have to browse
that site when I have time. Cool looking amps there.

The site is in dire need of an upgrade; its 3 years old, which is ancient
in Net terms.

I need to add more info, and include the pics of the latest designs,
which have factory made metal work with 2 mm thick steel chassis.
I sold all the stock shown at the website.

I rarely custom wind OPTs because there is always somebody cheaper, and I
am in Oz,
and freight is a killer.

But I never set out to be a tranny winder only, it is basically donkey
work,
drudgery, like all factory work, if that is all one does.
I quite enjoy doing a batch of wound items for a system, but I would tire
if that's all I ever did.
So I make amps and wind all the trannies in them after designing them all,
so I get a varied work life..
Much of my work is repairing old gear,
and occasionally servicing some hi-end tube gear.


Patrick Turner.





Karl

wrote:

Do you have data sheets with the parameters of your products-you know,
like primary inductance, leakage inductance, insertion loss, those kind
of things?

Also, someone asked me about KT88 prices. Didn't mean to blow you off,
I have no idea, I haven't bought one in a long time.

Try reading the site at
http://www.turneraudio.com.au/htmlwe...utputtrans.htm

and try wading through the design process of OPT No1 at
http://www.turneraudio.com.au/htmlwe...esigncalcs.htm

Then compare the info I give about 1 tranny compared to what
other makers give.

Patrick Turner.

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:31:26 +1100, Patrick Turner
wrote:

The site is in dire need of an upgrade; its 3 years old, which is ancient
in Net terms.

You'll think me an ass for nudging you, but I can't help it.

Patrick, you need to include your web address in your signature.
It's a great resource, and lately-spotty-but-regular readers
like me have *just* heard about it.

Dude, you're doing some great stuff. Don't be shy. Then folks
like me will shuddup about your editing. You're a metalworker,
not an editor. 'Nuf said.

Chris Hornbeck
"Say! One of you guys know how to Madison?"
-Brad in _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:31:26 +1100, Patrick Turner
wrote:

The site is in dire need of an upgrade; its 3 years old, which is ancient
in Net terms.

You'll think me an ass for nudging you, but I can't help it.

Patrick, you need to include your web address in your signature.
It's a great resource, and lately-spotty-but-regular readers
like me have *just* heard about it.

Well I would rather be seen as just me, without a website, and then after
awhile ppl get in the groove about RAT, and who and what is here,
and then decide than not everything I type is crap, and then they see I even
have a damn
website, often when I quote a reference schematic, and so on.

But if anyone looked at the info attatched to each post they'd see I was from
an organisation "turneraudio.com.au".

I have not wanted to be always seen as somebody operating
a commercial entity. Ppl have got the wrong idea; some have accused me
of commercial bias, or trying to sell gear to the group,
or that my stated methods and opinions on tubecraft are
tainted by commercial considerations.
I assure you it makes no difference whether I am a commercial operator or not.

And I have enough commercial success to be able to earn a living from
repair work and handcrafting new audio gear for which ppl pay me well.
I hope to be able to share the knowledge I have.


Dude, you're doing some great stuff. Don't be shy. Then folks
like me will shuddup about your editing. You're a metalworker,
not an editor. 'Nuf said.

I hate metalwork until its finished.

I recently invested several grand for a bunch of new chassis made by a local
guy
with a huge PC controlled stamping machine and a crew of young
men who are very skilled at mig welding and who do a far better job
at metalwork than I can using blocks of wood and cramps and hammers
to make a damn chassis.

I hope to achieve a standard level of finish associated with the likes
of the Quad 40, for example.

I see no need to emulate the kind of finish that say CJ or ARC use
with slabs of useless thick aluminium and so on.
Why charge ppl for overly fancy metalwork when what
one is really selling is good music?

If only I had more time......

Patrick Turner.





Chris Hornbeck
"Say! One of you guys know how to Madison?"
-Brad in _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_

wrote in message
oups.com...
All the major transformer houses put out books of amplifiers you could
build with their transformers and some of these are very good designs.
Unfortunately the transformers are all in landfills or Japan. There is
AFAIK no credible company building any of the old desgns in the U.S. at
this time.


It's true that you can't get just any old thing, but here are a few sites
for starters.
http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/dytr.html
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/magic.htm
http://www.heyboertransformers.com/tubeamps.shtml
I think that Heyboer and Mercury will wind anything you could possibly want.
If you have an old one, they will rewind it for you good as new or better.
They can be a bit pricey.

What Carlson has done is simply have a wind house in Chicago make up
Dynaco transformers. The Dynaco transformers aren't terrible but there
are a lot of old Dynacos out there, and there isn't a huge shortage of
the originals.

The other two firms wind guitar transformers. The power transformers
can be used but there are cheaper sources. The outputs, no. Not for a
hi-fi amp.

None of the better US designs like the Acro, Peerless, UTC Linear
Standard, or others are available from any source anywhere. Even if one
were willing to deal with the entity calling itself "MagneQuest" it
doesn't seem able or willing to provide the legacy designs it
purportedly has drawings of: nor does it apparently have the ability or
motivation to validate the characcteristics of whatever product it
might make. Another firm was at one time purportedly offering UTC
Linear Standards but that doesn't seem to have materialized either.