[Frosty]

Audio non-pro here, just a musician who plays acoustic guitar, fiddle
and banjo. Looking for advice and opinion and general help wandering
the technical jungle of portable audio recording choices. I've been
experimenting with the Zoom H-4, Edirol R-09 and Sony MZ-M200
recorders using the built in or supplied microphones. There is
another thread on this forum about "best mic for R-09" which got me
thinking.

If I were to choose one of those recorders and invest in an external
microphone and/or preamp, would that make sense?

I really like the interface of the R-09, but in my amateur attempts
with the built-in mics, I do hear hissing sound in the recordings I
make of acoustic guitar at home.

I like the warmth in the sound and what I believe is the stereo image
from the H-4. I believe those are X/Y pattern cardiods whereas the
R-09 has two omnidirectionals.

I like the teeny size of the M200 (when I have my reading glasses
nearby) but the sound, using the supplied Sony mic, sounds "colder" to
me than the other two. Hard to explain. I even tried some Sound
Professional cardiod mics and felt the same - clear, almost too clear?

I listen to all of this through the headphone amps on the individual
recorders with Sony 7506 phones.

So, in my dreams I have a small, portable battery-powered preamp and
maybe two small phantom-powered cardiod mics feeding the recorder.
That seems to be where I need to go from some reading I've done.
Something I can use to capture "field" recording of acoustic
musicians, old-time music sessions, etc.

Anyway, opinions and good questions are welcomed!

[Mike Rivers]

On Aug 4, 11:54 pm, Frosty wrote:

I've been
experimenting with the Zoom H-4, Edirol R-09 and Sony MZ-M200
recorders using the built in or supplied microphones.

If I were to choose one of those recorders and invest in an external
microphone and/or preamp, would that make sense?

It depends on what you're recording, how you're recording it, and most
important, what you intend to do with the recordings.

I really like the interface of the R-09, but in my amateur attempts
with the built-in mics, I do hear hissing sound in the recordings I
make of acoustic guitar at home.

In that case, put the recorder (hence the microphones) closer to the
guitar and turn down the record gain. Watch the meters and let them be
your guide. Don't use the automatic level control.

I like the warmth in the sound and what I believe is the stereo image
from the H-4. I believe those are X/Y pattern cardiods whereas the
R-09 has two omnidirectionals.

Again, it depends on the positioning. If you bought an external mic or
two mics, you'd need to learn how to use them as well. The benefit of
the Zoom is that it provides XLR connectors and 48 volt phantom power
so it's easy to experiment with mics. The built-in preamps aren't the
greatest, but they'll let you learn how to position mics properly. The
only improvement you'll be able to make once you get good mics in the
right place is to reduce hiss, and that shouldn't be a big problem
anyway, just the icing on the cake.

I listen to all of this through the headphone amps on the individual
recorders with Sony 7506 phones.

Well, that's your problem. Headphones like that will emphasize all the
"surface" flaws. Plug them into a decent stereo system (or burn a CD
from the files and play it in your car) and you'll get a better idea
of how real people hear real recordings from these things.

So, in my dreams I have a small, portable battery-powered preamp and
maybe two small phantom-powered cardiod mics feeding the recorder.
That seems to be where I need to go from some reading I've done.
Something I can use to capture "field" recording of acoustic
musicians, old-time music sessions, etc.

You need a TASCAM HD-P2. That's the sort of thing that used to be done
with a Nagra (and still is, by some) and there's no need to have a
recorder for this purpose that you can slip into your shirt pocket. If
you want something tiny to carry in your banjo case and whip out to
catch a tune in a jam session so you can learn it, wait another month
or so for the Zoom H2 to be released and give that a listen.

[Frosty]

Mike Rivers, thanks very much for the quick and informative reply!
Quite a bit to think about there. I will pay more attention to
placement
and playback. But, doesn't the world listen to audio in MP3 format
with earbuds from an iPod? ;-) Maybe I'll keep the R-09 for a
point-and-shoot and look into the HD-P2 for more "careful" recording.

[Frosty]

On Aug 5, 6:50 pm, Chel van Gennip wrote:
Acoustic musicians in a reasonable hall can be recorded with 2 omnis in AB
most of the time.


Thanks, Chel. Why the preference for omni-directional, won't that
pick up sound from all around? For example, if I wanted to record a
group of musicians playing at one end of a room, wouldn't the omni
also pick up the sound of the people talking elsewhere in the room?
Or are the cardiod pattern mics more sensitive to placement?

[Scott Dorsey]

Frosty wrote:

Thanks, Chel. Why the preference for omni-directional, won't that
pick up sound from all around? For example, if I wanted to record a
group of musicians playing at one end of a room, wouldn't the omni
also pick up the sound of the people talking elsewhere in the room?
Or are the cardiod pattern mics more sensitive to placement?

There is a good introduction to stereophony on http://www.josephson.com.

While I don't personally like the artificial sense of depth you get
from widely-spaced omnis, they are easy to set up and that's a big
advantage in this sort of situation.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 01:56:04 -0000, Frosty
wrote:

Thanks, Chel. Why the preference for omni-directional, won't that
pick up sound from all around? For example, if I wanted to record a
group of musicians playing at one end of a room, wouldn't the omni
also pick up the sound of the people talking elsewhere in the room?
Or are the cardiod pattern mics more sensitive to placement?

No more than your ears would. (Well, that's not quite true, but bear
with it :-) Anyway, you're making a recording. Ask them to shut
up!