On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:18:22 +1100, Patrick Turner
wrote:




There are more books written or illustrated or designed (or all three) by me in your little town, Canberra, alone,
than all the amps you will sell if you live to be a 1000.


I have lived here for 30 years, and I know a lot of people, and not a single person
has ever heard of you, your books, amps, except a few who have recently
witnessed your elitist arrogance and disruptive nonsense and plain arsolic nature
on the Net.

relax pat..he has no webpage , and an email that requires half an hour
of google searching to find...and even that may not be valid.
All web references to him have been deleted for a number of years
...and the same goes for any webpage that he may have had about 1996 or
1997.

In short there is nothing on the web from him new and viewable that
you can actually find.For all intensive purposes he may as well be
dead. ...and since these postings are all anonymous. it may well
indeed be anybody posting them...even Phil....because let's face it
....it's a perfect audiophile name to use anonymously, because the guy
in reality is anonymous....or at the very least has no fixed address
that you can find anywhere.....
There's nothing stopping anyone from using his name on an anonymous
remailer , to say whatever they like, because you're never going to
get a reply from him from a genuine address.

George Orwell wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

Mmm. I point out that the turneroid knows nothing about horns because he has never heard good ones. I point out that he is not fit to build speakers because he does not go to concerts. He replies with the personal insults below.

I have have listened to horns made by leading companies,
but alas, they were condemed as terrible by all audio club members present.

I do go to live concerts, and getting my speakers to replicate the live performance
is the means by which hi-fi is attained.



I especially like this piece of oft-repeated crap from Patrick Turner, who creams himself when some little local shop puts his homemade rubbish in the window for a couple of days:

Much longer than a couple of days.

Unfortunately, the shop wanted 45% of the retail price,
which means I could not make a wage, since the speakers I make have
so much time, expense and effort involved with their
handcrafting.
Prices are determined by the cheap imports of mass made speakers which
are suited to the lowest common denominator.
I refuse to descend to the quality of the other speakers sold here.


Andre makes and sells nothing,

There is not a country in the world in what I have made is not sold, Turner.

What utter BS.


There are more books written or illustrated or designed (or all three) by me in your little town, Canberra, alone, than all the amps you will sell if you live to be a 1000.

I have lived here for 30 years, and I know a lot of people, and not a single person
has ever heard of you, your books, amps, except a few who have recently
witnessed your elitist arrogance and disruptive nonsense and plain arsolic nature
on the Net.
They all tell me you are a complete jerk, and a pathological liar, and wouldn't
want anything you make, even if you did, and they wouldn't want your damn books.

Delete the rest of Andre's utter BS.

Do us a favour Andre, and just **** off, and take your bloated ego with you.

Patrick Turner.

wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:18:22 +1100, Patrick Turner
wrote:



There are more books written or illustrated or designed (or all three) by me in your little town, Canberra, alone,
than all the amps you will sell if you live to be a 1000.

I have lived here for 30 years, and I know a lot of people, and not a single person
has ever heard of you, your books, amps, except a few who have recently
witnessed your elitist arrogance and disruptive nonsense and plain arsolic nature
on the Net.

relax pat..he has no webpage , and an email that requires half an hour
of google searching to find...and even that may not be valid.
All web references to him have been deleted for a number of years
..and the same goes for any webpage that he may have had about 1996 or
1997.

I know he used to have a presence, but Andre the has-been
continues to blacken me and anything I say or do.

Meanwhile, it should be remembered he don't make anything ppl would pay for,
and he has yet to gain the reputation I have with the humble ppl I know.
He has never used, owned or heard any of my creations, yet he
****s over them.

And if he wanted to buy something from me, he can't have one!

In short there is nothing on the web from him new and viewable that
you can actually find.

When 'Andre Jute' is entered into Google, a pile of stuff comes up.
If you trace the news groups carefully, its easy to se why he's so unpopular,
and like Phil Allison, a pretty complete arsole.
The pile of arsolic exchanges makes the record look pretty awful.
He's getting stinkier and smellier.


For all intensive purposes he may as well be
dead. ...and since these postings are all anonymous. it may well
indeed be anybody posting them...even Phil....because let's face it
...it's a perfect audiophile name to use anonymously, because the guy
in reality is anonymous....or at the very least has no fixed address
that you can find anywhere.....

Nope, Andre is NOT anonymous, he signs all his posts properly,
and if you wanted real contact with the "man" he's got a real address.

But I couldn't think of wasting time more effectively than
meeting AJ ( or PA ).


There's nothing stopping anyone from using his name on an anonymous
remailer , to say whatever they like, because you're never going to
get a reply from him from a genuine address.

His message is real enough.

The anonymous address is used like many folks to place some distance
between him and his legions of enemies.

I don't care about the anonymous mail addresses.
Behind every address there is a real person.

Not a very nice one, when we consider AJ.

Patrick Turner.

Up-to-date Crutchfield.com referral discount coupon code here to save
you $20 - pxjbb-k3g0a-z3qeh

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?

Paul



Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

The turneroid whined:

Unfortunately, the shop wanted 45 of the retail price,
which means I could not make a wage,

Oh, for Chrisesake, Turner, will you stop whinging if, the next time Im in Canberra, I take you around the dealers and show you how to cut a distribution deal which doesnt give them your underjocks as well as your shirt? Do you have to be such an irritating loser?

Andre Jute

"paul james"

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my
father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of
Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some
music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many
systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?


** Why not ask a **really loaded ** question - dickhead.?

If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.




........... Phil

The post below has so much pure BS and insult, its not worth any reply.

Andre Jute's reputation as a writer, amp maker, speaker maker,
is utterly insignificant in all the countries of the world.

**** off, you ain't wanted here. Your name is mud covered.

When you apologise for all the insults and lies, I'll ease up,
But never before YOU stop being a complete arsole.

Patrick Turner.




Anonymous Sender wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes
aus.hi-fi

Patrick Turner , aka the turneroid, a wannabe Canberra hi-fi manufacturer, wrote, for the umpteenth time:

Andre makes and sells nothing,

I replied, at last:

There is not a country in the world in which what I have made is not sold, Turner.

Now the turneroid is dumb enough to claim:
What utter BS.

Okay, Turner, name one country in the world in which my books are not sold. Otherwise we shall, again, call you a liar.

And while you are about it, name one person who paid for an amp or speakers that you built. Or we shall, again, call you a liar.

I love the illogic of the turneroid mind:

I have lived here for 30 years, and I know a lot of people,
and not a single person has ever heard of you,

Fair enough. I wouldnt want the sort of person the turneroid knows to know who I am, for fear that my friends will say I sold out. But then the idiot turneroid goes on to tell us:

They all tell me you are a complete jerk, and a pathological liar,

Er, hows that again, poor old Haemorrhoid? They have never heard of me, but they tell you I am a jerk and a liar?

Sounds to me like your friends have been contaminated by your terminal disease of jabbering butt, Turner, the symptom of which is spouting offensive opinions about people they do not know.

Even more idiocy from the turneroid:

Delete the rest of Andres utter BS.

Hmm. What Turner doesnt want you to see:

Christ, an amp design job out of Australia that could have gone to you if you were competent, and that I would have thrown to you anyway to cut your teeth on if you were even faintly acceptable, came all the way to Ireland to me. (2) Is that your great success?

Nor does he want you to see my prediction of his response:

Now watch the moron Turner, who has repeated this taunt about twenty times before I responded, screech reams about how Im a toffee-nosed intellectual oppressing some little wannabe businessman

And here is the response I predicted:

Do us a favour Andre, and just **** off, and take your bloated ego with you.

But my dear old turneroid, you spent two years telling people I make nothing, and now that I demonstrate that what I make (books) is sold and appreciated worldwide, including your home town (1), suddenly you dont want to know. I think you prefer your lies to the truth.

Below is the turneroids complete meretricious post, and below that is my full post with all his cuts restored, for the edification of those who wish to put down rude colonials.

Andre Jute
PS Suddenly, after I point out that it is necessary for an aspirant amp and speaker designer to attend concerts, the turneroid claims to attend concerts, and tune his speakers to the live performance. Last week it was measurements and nothing else that were his gods. The man has no shame in his lies.

(1) Do look up the archives of the Canberra Times and read the reviews of my books. They particularly liked my novel Festival, which I remember because I happened to be in Adelaide at the Festival for the Australian launch of the book and the clipping was shown to me one of my PR dollies. Cant say I paid too much attention to reading it, since I was eating a Calzone Rustico in La Mensa at the time and she was bending over my food in a low-cut dress, about to pop out into my food, but the reviewer was appropriately awed. Where can I read a review of one of your Turnip amps or speakers?

THE TURNEROIDAL HAEMORRHOIDS MERETRICIOUS REPLY
Patrick Turner , aka the turneroid, a wannabe Canberra hi-fi manufacturer, wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

Mmm. I point out that the turneroid knows nothing about horns because he has never heard good ones. I point out that he is not fit to build speakers because he does not go to concerts. He replies with the personal insults below.

I have have listened to horns made by leading companies,
but alas, they were condemed as terrible by all audio club members present.

I do go to live concerts, and getting my speakers to replicate the live performance
is the means by which hi-fi is attained.



I especially like this piece of oft-repeated crap from Patrick Turner, who creams himself when some little local shop puts his homemade rubbish in the window for a couple of days:

Much longer than a couple of days.

Unfortunately, the shop wanted 45 of the retail price,
which means I could not make a wage, since the speakers I make have
so much time, expense and effort involved with their
handcrafting.
Prices are determined by the cheap imports of mass made speakers which
are suited to the lowest common denominator.
I refuse to descend to the quality of the other speakers sold here.


Andre makes and sells nothing,

There is not a country in the world in what I have made is not sold, Turner.

What utter BS.

There are more books written or illustrated or designed (or all three) by me in your little town, Canberra, alone, than all the amps you will sell if you live to be a 1000.

I have lived here for 30 years, and I know a lot of people, and not a single person
has ever heard of you, your books, amps, except a few who have recently
witnessed your elitist arrogance and disruptive nonsense and plain arsolic nature
on the Net.
They all tell me you are a complete jerk, and a pathological liar, and wouldnt
want anything you make, even if you did, and they wouldnt want your damn books.

Delete the rest of Andres utter BS.

Do us a favour Andre, and just **** off, and take your bloated ego with you.

Patrick Turner.

THIS IS MY COMPLETE POST TO WHICH THE TURNEROID IS REPLYING:
The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

Mmm. I point out that the turneroid knows nothing about horns because he has never heard good ones. I point out that he is not fit to build speakers because he does not go to concerts. He replies with the personal insults below.

I especially like this piece of oft-repeated crap from Patrick Turner, who creams himself when some little local shop puts his homemade rubbish in the window for a couple of days:

Andre makes and sells nothing,

There is not a country in the world in what I have made is not sold, Turner. There are more books written or illustrated or designed (or all three) by me in your little town, Canberra, alone, than all the amps you will sell if you live to be a 1000. (1) There were more translations into additional languages of just one of my books this year alone than you claim to have sold amps. What I make and sell is consumed by people around the world, year in, year out, this year, to pick an example of just one country and one book, by 70,000 paying Chinese customers for that book alone. You, Turner, by contrast have failed to produce even one person who bought one of your amps.

Now watch the moron Turner, who has repeated this taunt about twenty times before I responded, screech reams about how Im a toffee-nosed intellectual oppressing some little wannabe businessman just because his **** doesnt sell internationally, when we know that in fact it doesnt sell at all. If you cant take it, you dumb turneroid, dont hand it out. Nobody wants the crap you build, because it is crap, no other reason. Youre a loser trying to make yourself look like a player by abusing your betters.

and must be jealous of anyone else
who enjoys success at making fine audio gear.

Ugh. Christ, an amp design job out of Australia that could have gone to you if you were competent, and that I would have thrown to you anyway to cut your teeth on if you were even faintly acceptable, came all the way to Ireland to me. (2) Is that your great success?

There is nothing about you to envy, Turner. You have no style and no talent. You are an example of everything that is horrible in greedy little wannabe traders.

What a useless loudmouth you are. What do you return to the world in joy for the oxygen you breathe?

Andre Jute

(1) And I am paid with your tax dollars for the multiple free use by library members of my books in libraries to recompense me for the loss of royalties in individual sales. You pay for a whole government sub-department whose purpose in life is to see that I dont go short. Thanks, Turner. The righteous always prosper!

(2) That is my wu at work, see?

- - - - - -

The turneroid wrote some more advertisements for his crap:

Below is the usual post full of BS we continue to get from Andre.
This time its about speakers, so the header for post
is erroneous.

The fact is that a hammer was the least used tool of many used in the production
of my speakers which were displayed in a couple of hi-fi shops here
where they were regarded as better than the rest, often costing a lot more.
They were also demoed to the ASON club, along with
my amplifiers, and they thought they were just wonderful, and so much better
than the far more expensive system they had heard during the previous monthss
demonstration which had a $120,000 system by a hi-end US maker.

Andre makes and sells nothing, and must be jealous of anyone else
who enjoys success at making fine audio gear.

Andre Jutes attitude and mental condition continues to deteriorate slowly,
and he refuses to take his medications.

Patrick Turner.

Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:

The turneroid School of Amp Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

I have no idea what you think an amp designer does with a hammer, Turner. I dont have a hammer. Everything I design fits right. That you even think a hammer is a tool for an amp designer tells us a great about you and your amps. Do you also have a big army knife with a bayonet point that you call my bodger, like some tenth-rate mechanic pretending to be a fitter?

If you think Fostex point source drivers are expensive, what sort of ****ty public address system drivers do you use in your own misaligned speakers? (My horns use Lowther drivers, at about five or six times the price of the best Fostex. Because of the laws of marginality, they are about twice as good as Fostex.)

That you have never heard good horns would be a tragedy if you were really an audiophile, which your miserable 60-disc collection tells us you are not. For someone who pretends as you do to be a manufacturer of amplifiers and speakers, it is a catastrophe.

If you went to concerts of good music, instead of just building copies of speakers by the other non-kulturny, you would know that correctly sized horns approach the original closer than anything except Quad electrostats. In short, your reference is other bad speakers, not the original performance.

Still, my offer is open. You may put the photographs of my latest horns and their accompanying microwatt amplifier on your netsite for a year, and perhaps the several customers they will attract will let you listen to them, after which I confidently expect you will be building copies of my designs. That is usually the path followed by your kind of get-rich-quick merchant without any ideas of his own.

Andre Jute
PS Turner, you arent fit to lick the boots of Bruce Edgar, either.

Choky, a Tacky Turner Troll from Serbia, which accounts for his violent style, wrote:

Psychotic Midget is too obsessed with his own ego psychosis, to be able to
make any decent piece of musical equipment.
to make real piece of gear,you must feel passion and love for that and
something else,not just hate.............
who really believe in your horn story?
go somewhere on the net,and keep looking at real work and real horns and
real amps, and stop with lies.
Psychotic Midget and tube audio.......?!

El Maximum Cigarogem of the Tacky Turner Trolls, one Patrick Turner of Turner Audio, Canberra, then replied:

Perhaps uncle Andrea has trouble garnishing his creations with suitable WU.
Wu is of course, something or other in the japanese zen masters minds that is
used when building their amps and speakers, to imbue special sound quality,
which makes Ongaku SET amps sell for $100,000 a channel each.
So you pay for wu alright.

I have visions of Andre bashing away with hammer and saw,
stabbing with the paint brush angrily, after filling all the
hammer marks with putty, swearing about those horrible turneroids,
and itd be impossible to get the WU factor correct.

I have known a couple of local guys who tried to build horns,
and by jove, what a terribly expensive way to waste timber,
and create firewood that all turned out to be.
And they spent so much on the full range drivers from Fostex.
These were like fragile speakers from an old radio, complete with whizzer cones.

Im darned if I could see any value.
They were so so sure their calculations and plans were SO correct,
but at the end of the day, the sound was like it was buried in a box somewhere,
and not even my class A triode amps made it improve.
The large Edgar horns I heard at an audio club gathering seemed to let
some but not all bass tones be heard, ie, some bass notes in a tune just went
awol.
The treble shouted at you.
I have yet to hear a decent modern horn system, although I have memories of
hearing
reasonable horns in the local cinemas in the late 50s and 60s,
when all the gear was horns and tubes, and our young ears didnt notice anything

much was wrong.

I remain hopeful and eager to hear a decent pair of horns.

Patrick Turner.

Andre Jute does not make and sell audio gear.
Maybe he sells a few of his lousy books, but who would would read any
of Andre Jute's books, once they know what an unmittigated arsole he can be,
when he keeps accusing me and others
of all the BS things like insulting him 280 times last year?
Who has ever purchased one of his phantom amps or speakers?

Andre Jute is a bitter old has-been, a do-little,
who presently has NO IDEA about marketing and manufacturing anything worth buying.
AKAIK, he sure has NO experience at manufacturing amps and speakers.
He don't even have a website.

In discussions on the Net, his main focus is to criticize other who will never catow,
like a vandal wrecks a school room, or sprays graffiti all over the town walls,
he is the juvenile rebel, and an abject failure.

The idea of him getting a better deal at any of the retail outlets
for selling hi-fi than I can is just plain ludicrous.
Everyone has failed so far.

Andre Jute is indeed a very dim witted dopey cypherpunk

Patrick Turner.



Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

The turneroid whined:

Unfortunately, the shop wanted 45 of the retail price,
which means I could not make a wage,

Oh, for Chrisesake, Turner, will you stop whinging if, the next time Im in Canberra, I take you around the dealers and show you how to cut a distribution deal which doesnt give them your underjocks as well as your shirt? Do you have to be such an irritating loser?

Andre Jute

What utter tripe we saw recently how you are able to assess speakers with your
quad debacle. Where in fairly land? your clearly incapable of objective test
results and independent assessments.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.
you would be able tell anyway, you clearly a first class fool as your quad
buying showed.
The whole list is laughing at you prize fool Phill.


** Why not ask a **really loaded ** question - dickhead.?

If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

........... Phil


Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james"

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my
father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of
Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some
music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many
systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?

** Why not ask a **really loaded ** question - dickhead.?

If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

.......... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james"

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my
father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of
Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some
music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many
systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?

** Why not ask a **really loaded ** question - dickhead.?

Phil is the real dickhead.



If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Andre Jute has told countless lies about me, my business, my speakers, and amps,

and he has a worldwide reputation of being one of the Net's greatest arsoles,
like Phil A.
Andre Jute's opinions are irrelevant.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

.......... Phil

There has never been any visitors at my plce who discovered my systems
were anything less than Paul has described.

The absence of "low bass" is subjective because the system Paul heard has
only 1 x 210mm Seas woofer, which measures flat from 30 Hz to 250 Hz,
but is probably down about 1.5 dB below where it really should be
in relation to the mids and treble.

There is a shirtload more bass than Quad ESL or other dipole panels offer.

The other system uses 300mm woofers which are more sensitive
and the relative bass levels are higher, which some folks strongly favour.

Patrick Turner.

"paul james" wrote in message
...

What utter tripe

** You are a complete moron with a malicious attitude.


we saw recently how you are able to assess speakers with your
quad debacle.


** What an absurd lie.

One cannot do objective tests on a speaker in a dealer's showroom.



Where in fairly land? your clearly incapable of objective test
results and independent assessments.


** No problem in my workshop - with all the test gear needed on hand.



The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

you would be able tell anyway, you clearly a first class fool as your quad
buying showed.


** You are first class **** as you all your posts show.




......... Phil

"Patrick Turner"



There has never been any visitors at my plce who discovered my systems
were anything less than Paul has described.


** The Turneroid would say that - wouldn't he.

Test results are what count.


There is a shirtload more bass than Quad ESL or other dipole panels offer.


** Says a monstrous liar who has never heard the ESL63.




.......... Phil

** You are first class **** as you all your posts show.

........ Phil

Lines like these demonstrate what we have been saying about Phil all along.

Patrick Turner.

"Patrick Turner"

** You are first class **** as you all your posts show.

........ Phil

Lines like these demonstrate what we have been saying about Phil all
along.

Patrick Turner.


** Take my words as fully applying to yourself - Turneroid.

Then double it.



.......... Phil

There is such thing as a really objective test as a subject is always involved.
your approach is most naive.

quad debacle speaks for itself I need not say anything more.

And one with so many slanted bias and perferances as you would not be able to
interpret results with any degree of validity.

You are first class **** as you all your posts show.
No your just frustrated beacause what ever you say and do youll always be a
fool.
We are all laughing at you.




Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james" wrote in message
...

What utter tripe

** You are a complete moron with a malicious attitude.

we saw recently how you are able to assess speakers with your
quad debacle.

** What an absurd lie.

One cannot do objective tests on a speaker in a dealer's showroom.

Where in fairly land? your clearly incapable of objective test
results and independent assessments.

** No problem in my workshop - with all the test gear needed on hand.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

you would be able tell anyway, you clearly a first class fool as your quad
buying showed.

** You are first class **** as you all your posts show.

........ Phil

Nomen Nescio wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

I have heard Turners attempts at loudspeakers.

Stop lying Andre, YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD ANY OF MY PRODUCTS.

Do youself a favour, and stop making a complete fool of yourself.

Have a lousy New Year.

Patrick Turner.

Delete the rest of the crap.

Id rather have the bass a little down as in Pat's system rather than the false boom
of many
commercial offerings. Bringing the bass up a little in Pats system shouldnt be a
problem.
I didn't hear Pats other system.

Phill's quads would be a joke regarding bass in comparison.


Patrick Turner wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james"

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my
father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of
Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some
music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many
systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?

** Why not ask a **really loaded ** question - dickhead.?

Phil is the real dickhead.



If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Andre Jute has told countless lies about me, my business, my speakers, and amps,

and he has a worldwide reputation of being one of the Net's greatest arsoles,
like Phil A.
Andre Jute's opinions are irrelevant.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

.......... Phil

There has never been any visitors at my plce who discovered my systems
were anything less than Paul has described.

The absence of "low bass" is subjective because the system Paul heard has
only 1 x 210mm Seas woofer, which measures flat from 30 Hz to 250 Hz,
but is probably down about 1.5 dB below where it really should be
in relation to the mids and treble.

There is a shirtload more bass than Quad ESL or other dipole panels offer.

The other system uses 300mm woofers which are more sensitive
and the relative bass levels are higher, which some folks strongly favour.

Patrick Turner.

Ah an empricist, have you studied any science Phill obviously youd didnt learn a
lot.
All knowledge of value and importance isnt found by empiricism. Anyhow even
these terms the quads dont measure well do they or are so demented that youll
lie about that to.

Its not a monsterous lie, just that you cant stand any comments about your
quads.


Paul


Phil Allison wrote:

"Patrick Turner"

There has never been any visitors at my plce who discovered my systems
were anything less than Paul has described.

** The Turneroid would say that - wouldn't he.

Test results are what count.

There is a shirtload more bass than Quad ESL or other dipole panels offer.

** Says a monstrous liar who has never heard the ESL63.

......... Phil

Unfortunately for the knockers, like Andre Jute, and Pill Allison,

There are no bad reports about any products I make.

Andre Jute and Phil Allison have to resort to the most insulting
phraseology to bring discredit on anything I make.
It wouldn't matter what it was, they'd knock it.
But they have never found any validated technical reasons why any of my
electronic produce would not be right up there with the best.

They just go around making complete fools of themselves,
and neither of them produce any audio gear which
anyone likes, or wants to buy.

Patrick Turner.

paul james wrote:

There is such thing as a really objective test as a subject is always involved.
your approach is most naive.

quad debacle speaks for itself I need not say anything more.

And one with so many slanted bias and perferances as you would not be able to
interpret results with any degree of validity.

You are first class **** as you all your posts show.
No your just frustrated beacause what ever you say and do youll always be a
fool.
We are all laughing at you.

Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james" wrote in message
...

What utter tripe

** You are a complete moron with a malicious attitude.

we saw recently how you are able to assess speakers with your
quad debacle.

** What an absurd lie.

One cannot do objective tests on a speaker in a dealer's showroom.

Where in fairly land? your clearly incapable of objective test
results and independent assessments.

** No problem in my workshop - with all the test gear needed on hand.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

you would be able tell anyway, you clearly a first class fool as your quad
buying showed.

** You are first class **** as you all your posts show.

........ Phil

What the hell is diatribe from a so called writer. Very poorly argued you link speakers
to culture then say that Pat has no culture therefore couldn't possibility build good speakers. What meaningless twaddle, history is littered with people who did great things but had questionable character, not that this even applies anyhow.

It is easier to like the works of people we like, but the reverse also applies your approach seems loaded, you'd only like the speakers of people that you culturally approve. What kind of perverse religion is this. you don't like Pat that's one thing it doesn't follow like 2 plus 2 equals four that his speakers are not any good.

Why anyone would pay you for your perverse thinking is really quite bizarre.



Paul


Speaker creation by culture.



Nomen Nescio wrote:

The turneroid School of Loudspeaker Design by Hammer
rec.audio.tubes,aus.hi-fi

I have heard Turners attempts at loudspeakers.

Until now I have not volunteered an opinion on Turners gear, though not for the perfectly valid reasons Phil states. There are two reasons he should add for complete coverage. One is that I am a professional writer, so I dont write a review until I am paid for it by a reputable publisher.

The other relevant is the relevant one here. I have no intention of writing a review from which Turner can misquote a phrase, or take a piece out of context, and then advertise that Andre Jute approves of his products.

Phil, whatever you guys may think of his manner (and I think some idiots on aus.hi-fi, born school bullies, bring that on yourselves by constantly taunting him), is a pretty smart guy, whose incisive insight is comprehensively illustrated in this bit:

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value

Before I heard the turneroids gear, I already made the case that loudspeakers, beyond their technicalities, require culture to know when they sound right, which is the same case Phil here makes concisely. Turner has no culture. Crude yobs like Turner do not produce great speakers. For Turners shameless hype and his prices, his speakers should be exceptional. You yourself tell us they are not. Plenty of very reasonably priced speakers do what you describe and more.

Please note that in all this I have not agreed any particular of your assessment of the turneroid speakers, nor expressed approval of your overall assessment. I have not said anything at all specific about my own listening impressions. I have merely made a case from the general standpoint of Turners observable behaviour as a zero-culture yob who cannot at any stretch of the imagination be considered a music lover. How a fellow with by his own admission a collection of 60 CDs can presume to call himself a loudspeaker designer is a mystery.

Turning to more pleasant things, I have among my speakers a set of the 1970s vintage Bang and Olufsen S25 which are a direct copy of the famous Goodmans bentback speakers of possibly the late 1960s, intended to be hung on a wall at an angle. I would consider it a favour if your would ask your dad if he remembers them and relay faithfully what he says about their origins, etc.

Andre Jute

"paul james"

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my
father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of
Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some
music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many
systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?

Why not ask a really loaded question - dickhead.?

If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

......... Phil

paul james wrote:

Id rather have the bass a little down as in Pat's system rather than the false boom
of many
commercial offerings. Bringing the bass up a little in Pats system shouldnt be a
problem.
I didn't hear Pats other system.

Phill's quads would be a joke regarding bass in comparison.

I agree about the two systems I have here.

When I did have a good listen to a Quad ESL57 system some time back,
the guy had a well integrated sub-woofer, and the bass was quite good .
The recent listening at another client's house where he had ESL57 after I fixed his amp

showed the bass was kinda shy, but he had no sub.

Patrick Turner.



Patrick Turner wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james"

Andre
Have bought nothing from Pat not have any commercial arrangement with him.
I have had a long standing interest in loudspeakers since as a boy when my
father worked for goodmans. I was impressed by the detail and naturalness of
Pats speakers. The only
weakeness being lack of low bass, but then thats more apparent on some
music than others. Thats a relative satatement also as there are not many
systems withnout a good sub that produce low bass, not boom.

Have you heard Pats speakers?

** Why not ask a **really loaded ** question - dickhead.?

Phil is the real dickhead.



If Andre says he has and was unimpressed then he gets accused of personal
prejudice or having tin ears.

If Andre say he has not heard them then he gets accused of commenting
without knowing.

Andre Jute has told countless lies about me, my business, my speakers, and amps,

and he has a worldwide reputation of being one of the Net's greatest arsoles,
like Phil A.
Andre Jute's opinions are irrelevant.

Only objective test results and independent assessments count.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

.......... Phil

There has never been any visitors at my plce who discovered my systems
were anything less than Paul has described.

The absence of "low bass" is subjective because the system Paul heard has
only 1 x 210mm Seas woofer, which measures flat from 30 Hz to 250 Hz,
but is probably down about 1.5 dB below where it really should be
in relation to the mids and treble.

There is a shirtload more bass than Quad ESL or other dipole panels offer.

The other system uses 300mm woofers which are more sensitive
and the relative bass levels are higher, which some folks strongly favour.

Patrick Turner.

Thats exactly conclusion I came to. Both of these fools offer nothing but sloganism.
They add nothing but noise.

Patrick Turner wrote:

Unfortunately for the knockers, like Andre Jute, and Pill Allison,

There are no bad reports about any products I make.

Andre Jute and Phil Allison have to resort to the most insulting
phraseology to bring discredit on anything I make.
It wouldn't matter what it was, they'd knock it.
But they have never found any validated technical reasons why any of my
electronic produce would not be right up there with the best.

They just go around making complete fools of themselves,
and neither of them produce any audio gear which
anyone likes, or wants to buy.

Patrick Turner.

paul james wrote:

There is such thing as a really objective test as a subject is always involved.
your approach is most naive.

quad debacle speaks for itself I need not say anything more.

And one with so many slanted bias and perferances as you would not be able to
interpret results with any degree of validity.

You are first class **** as you all your posts show.
No your just frustrated beacause what ever you say and do youll always be a
fool.
We are all laughing at you.

Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james" wrote in message
...

What utter tripe

** You are a complete moron with a malicious attitude.

we saw recently how you are able to assess speakers with your
quad debacle.

** What an absurd lie.

One cannot do objective tests on a speaker in a dealer's showroom.

Where in fairly land? your clearly incapable of objective test
results and independent assessments.

** No problem in my workshop - with all the test gear needed on hand.

The Turneroid cannot produce anything of such value.

you would be able tell anyway, you clearly a first class fool as your quad
buying showed.

** You are first class **** as you all your posts show.

........ Phil

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:11:22 +1100, Patrick Turner
wrote:

snip

Pat Turner designs and builds Tube Audio Equipment and posts useful
information on the news groups.

André Jute writes books on writing books, graphics design and works of
fiction (14 listed on Amazon.com, of which 2 are still in print). And,
one article and followup published on the web referring to the
Velleman K4000 and K4040 Amplifier kits. All other audio related
links found are dead.

Phil Allison has contributed an (1) article to a web page referencing
an a/b switching system for blind testing amplifiers. I have also
found one usenet posting from Phil which contained relevant
information in r.a.t over the past 6 months.

I am familiar with Pat's site and visit on a semi regular basis.

I look for information on tube related subjects in every forum I can
find. Most of the regulars here and in rec.audio.radio+phono are
reasonably informative most of the time (the occasional OT post can be
rather humorous (I know as I save them for future reference)).

So, why can't you all just drop the BS and get back to the tubes. You
remind me of my children with fouler mouths.




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"paul james"


There is such thing as a really objective test as a subject is always
involved.


** Another insane audiophool mantra...


Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


And one with so many slanted bias and perferances as you would not be able
to
interpret results with any degree of validity.


** As one with zero brain capacity I wonder how you remember to wipe your
arse after ****ting.

You are first class **** as you all your posts show.


.............. Phil

"Patrick Turner"



** The Turneroid is a sub human.

Treat him as ****.




........... Phil

"paul james"


** Paul James is a mental defective - and evil one.

Another autistic like the Turneroid.

Treat them like ****.




........... Phil

"Rocky"


** You are a stupid posturing ass.

Go to hell.



.......... Phil

Absolute drivel, how you got past high school is a wonder.
you have nothing to say you empty headed fool.




Phil Allison wrote:

"paul james"

There is such thing as a really objective test as a subject is always
involved.

** Another insane audiophool mantra...

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

And one with so many slanted bias and perferances as you would not be able
to
interpret results with any degree of validity.

** As one with zero brain capacity I wonder how you remember to wipe your
arse after ****ting.

You are first class **** as you all your posts show.

............. Phil

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