Hey everybody,,,

I have a 1988 S10 2.5L single cab and I am running two 1100W Sony Xplod Subs
with a 760W Sony Xplod amp,
and I was wondering if I should add a second battery,
as I am already also using a 1.0 farad capacitor,, I know this truck does not
put out much power,
also, how would I go about adding a second battery?
Do I just jump from one batterey to the next or what?
and how big should I go on an alternator if I do add a second battery?

--
bob_17_2005

For that setup 100amp alternator would do just fine and some. Trans am
Firebirds 1984 -1988 came with 100 and 105amp alternators, they should bolt on
that truck, if not you might have to change the pully and or the front of the
case. You should be able to find a stock GM replacment from something, that
will save you some $$$$. Talk to your local alternator rebuilder. I personaly
would not go with a 2nd battery for that setup as it's not needed, but
replacing your main battery with a yellow top optima or something like it
would not hurt.


In article 5afdc7946390e@uwe, "Robert" u18144@uwe wrote:
Hey everybody,,,

I have a 1988 S10 2.5L single cab and I am running two 1100W Sony Xplod Subs
with a 760W Sony Xplod amp,
and I was wondering if I should add a second battery,
as I am already also using a 1.0 farad capacitor,, I know this truck does not
put out much power,
also, how would I go about adding a second battery?
Do I just jump from one batterey to the next or what?
and how big should I go on an alternator if I do add a second battery?

Start by throwing away your capacitor, or using it as a paper weight, and
run 4GA wire from your alternator to your positive battery terminal, from
your negative battery terminal to the chassis, and from the block to the
cassis. that should help quite a bit.

--
- AUSTIN BECKER
"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
For that setup 100amp alternator would do just fine and some. Trans am
Firebirds 1984 -1988 came with 100 and 105amp alternators, they should
bolt on
that truck, if not you might have to change the pully and or the front of
the
case. You should be able to find a stock GM replacment from something,
that
will save you some $$$$. Talk to your local alternator rebuilder. I
personaly
would not go with a 2nd battery for that setup as it's not needed, but
replacing your main battery with a yellow top optima or something like it
would not hurt.


In article 5afdc7946390e@uwe, "Robert" u18144@uwe wrote:
Hey everybody,,,

I have a 1988 S10 2.5L single cab and I am running two 1100W Sony Xplod
Subs
with a 760W Sony Xplod amp,
and I was wondering if I should add a second battery,
as I am already also using a 1.0 farad capacitor,, I know this truck does
not
put out much power,
also, how would I go about adding a second battery?
Do I just jump from one batterey to the next or what?
and how big should I go on an alternator if I do add a second battery?

and from the block to the
cassis. that should help quite a bit.

I second that. It seems most people just focus on the positive side of the
equation under the hood (with large gauge power cable and such), but beefing
up the connections to your alternator (positive AND negative), and the
ground connections from block to chassis can gain you some precious tenths
of a volt. If in doubt whether this is necessary, take a multimeter and
measure voltage between chassis and block, as well as chassis and negative
battery connection. If you get a reading greater than .05 volts, IMHO it is
well worth beefing those connections. Keep in mind that when a lot of
current is being drawn, those differences will increase dramatically.

MOSFET

Austin Becker wrote:
Start by throwing away your capacitor, or using it as a paper weight, and
run 4GA wire from your alternator to your positive battery terminal, from
your negative battery terminal to the chassis, and from the block to the
cassis. that should help quite a bit.

I wouldn't necessarily start by trashing the cap - it's not likely
giving you that much benefit, but it shouldn't be hurting anything
either. The rest of the advice for beefing up the wiring is excellent,
though.

Robert, another post recommended upgrading your alternator: this is your
next important step. The battery in any vehicle is there for one
primary reason: to crank the starter. Beyond that, its only real
function is the power accessories when the engine isn't running.

A second battery is added only when you need to power accessories for a
long time without the engine running, such as you would with a camper,
or if you plan to run your stereo while sitting in a parking lot for a
few hours. In these instances, you need to use a battery isolator (sold
for camper/tralier systems) to allow the alternator to charge both
batteries while allowing the desired accessories (like your system) to
only draw power from the secondary battery; this way, even if your
accessories drain their battery, your primary battery is still available
to start the vehicle.

When the engine IS running, the alternator is your main source of power
to all the systems and accessories, and must also keep the battery
charged to start the vehicle next time. If your amps and other
accessories are drawing more current than the alternator can supply,
you'll gradually drain the battery even with the engine running, and you
stand a good chance of eventually burning out your alternator and/or
voltage regulator.

If your system requires more current, then, you have to GENERATE more
current, and that means upgrading the alternator (and if necessary, the
voltage regulator as well, if it's external to the alternator). Simple
as that.



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On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:53:59 GMT, "Robert" u18144@uwe wrote:

Hey everybody,,,

I have a 1988 S10 2.5L single cab and I am running two 1100W Sony Xplod Subs
with a 760W Sony Xplod amp,
and I was wondering if I should add a second battery,
as I am already also using a 1.0 farad capacitor,, I know this truck does not
put out much power,
also, how would I go about adding a second battery?
Do I just jump from one batterey to the next or what?
and how big should I go on an alternator if I do add a second battery?






Since a stock alternator will only supply around 1000 watts total you
should install a second alternator to supply enough power to operate
this equipment at anything neat capacity. If you only want to use
about a total of 500 watts then you can go with the stock alternator
and use heavier wire between the alternator , battery, and amplifier.

1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should check
this out....
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's 1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts. That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem, start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like $15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second alternator
or battery.

--
- AUSTIN BECKER

Since a stock alternator will only supply around 1000 watts total you
should install a second alternator to supply enough power to operate
this equipment at anything neat capacity. If you only want to use
about a total of 500 watts then you can go with the stock alternator
and use heavier wire between the alternator , battery, and amplifier.

Good post. You forgot to mention also that from the potential amount of
power from the alternator, a decent percentage is powering the car. Like
the radio, power seats, windows, ABS brakes, Electronic Stability
Control, the cars computer, dash lights, headlights, turn signals, brake
lights, and all kinds of other things that I can't even think of. That
makes a lot of difference.

I agree about the capacitor. Its entire purpose in life is to try and
smooth out peaks and valleys in the voltage to the amplifier(s). Most
amps have many small ones in them anyway so many times they're not even
a benefit. And when a capacitor releases power to the amp, it just has
to recharge itself anyway, so could possibly even be a bigger burden on
the charging system than not having one.

Upgrading the power wire will help to a point, but even if a person has
1/0 AWG wire throughout the system, it could still dim the lights. That
means its time for alternator upgrade, or sometimes, even rewinding the
stock alternator to a higher output can be cheaper and all that's needed.

Brandonb


Austin Becker wrote:
1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should check
this out....
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's 1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts. That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem, start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like $15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second alternator
or battery.

agreed.... if you do the wiring upgrade, and still your lights dim, it's
definitely time to upgrade alternator and battery. IMHO, using a capacitor
is indeed making the system work overtime. Sure, it smooths out the peaks,
but after it discharges, there is not 2 loads on the system, because the
music is still playing, so the battery is having to charge the capacitor,
and get the power to the amp....I'm sure they are useful for something, but
not car audio in my opinion. I just assume upgrade engine electrical.

--
- AUSTIN BECKER
"Brandonb" wrote in message
...
Good post. You forgot to mention also that from the potential amount of
power from the alternator, a decent percentage is powering the car. Like
the radio, power seats, windows, ABS brakes, Electronic Stability
Control, the cars computer, dash lights, headlights, turn signals, brake
lights, and all kinds of other things that I can't even think of. That
makes a lot of difference.

I agree about the capacitor. Its entire purpose in life is to try and
smooth out peaks and valleys in the voltage to the amplifier(s). Most
amps have many small ones in them anyway so many times they're not even
a benefit. And when a capacitor releases power to the amp, it just has
to recharge itself anyway, so could possibly even be a bigger burden on
the charging system than not having one.

Upgrading the power wire will help to a point, but even if a person has
1/0 AWG wire throughout the system, it could still dim the lights. That
means its time for alternator upgrade, or sometimes, even rewinding the
stock alternator to a higher output can be cheaper and all that's needed.

Brandonb


Austin Becker wrote:
1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp
rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should
check
this out....
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's
1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts.
That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and
has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem,
start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding
another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those
ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that
it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like
$15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you
have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra
current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second
alternator
or battery.

IMHO, using a capacitor
is indeed making the system work overtime. Sure, it smooths out the
peaks,
but after it discharges, there is not 2 loads on the system, because the
music is still playing, so the battery is having to charge the capacitor,

I will certainly agree that there is a point where a capacitor can do
ABSOLUTELY no good, when the average demands of the system surpass the
output of the alternator. I see this in my own system. I have three farads
of capacitance (four 1/2 farad caps and one 1 farad) and I will observe that
my voltage will be ROCK STEADY up to a certain volume point, and after that
the voltage will plummet. WITHOUT the caps, I find my voltage fluctuates at
even moderate volume levels. Of course, the reason why caps work is because
music puts TRANSIENT power demands on amplifiers, not continuous. I
consider my caps a VERY important part of my system and would never be
without them, therefore IMHO, they DO have their place. But, they cannot
create power from thin air, and ultimately are no substitute for a
high-power alternator.

MOSFET

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 02:48:26 GMT, "Austin Becker"
wrote:

1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should check
this out....


The link below is for newbies! Do you know how much power is required
for the fuel system (injectors, pumps) the cooling system fan, the air
conditioning fan and clutch, the lights, and other accessories. Even
with a 120 amp alternator there is not a great deal of power left to
run a high power speaker system. The alternator must supply enough
power to operate everything.



http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's 1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts. That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem, start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like $15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second alternator
or battery.

I'm well aware of what draws power in a vehicle. The point I was dragging
across, for one, is that alternators are not rated in watts, but in amps,
and that the alternator he's working with should be plenty for the
application he's running it with. He's not running 1000's of watts. And as
a matter of fact, I know a dude with a stock electrical system running 2 15"
Kicker L7's with an 1800W amp, and competing with it, and his power system
seems to handle it. And he is not light on the gains either. The fact of
the matter is that upgrading wiring is FAR cheaper, and much easier to
accomplish than buying a new battery and alternator, especially for a Sony
that probably claims many more watts than it produces. There's no way to
tell exactly how they tested that amp. Spoken

--
- AUSTIN BECKER
"not i" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 02:48:26 GMT, "Austin Becker"
wrote:

1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp
rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should
check
this out....


The link below is for newbies! Do you know how much power is required
for the fuel system (injectors, pumps) the cooling system fan, the air
conditioning fan and clutch, the lights, and other accessories. Even
with a 120 amp alternator there is not a great deal of power left to
run a high power speaker system. The alternator must supply enough
power to operate everything.



http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's
1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts.
That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and
has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem,
start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding
another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those
ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that
it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like
$15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you
have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second
alternator
or battery.

Heheh, not to mention, adding a "second alternator" would be a MAJOR
PITA with almost any vehicle in existence.

Austin Becker wrote:
1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should check
this out....
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's 1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts. That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem, start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like $15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second alternator
or battery.



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*thumbs up* I will second that. I helped a friend add one to a dodge
stealth a few years back, and wow.... that alone was about enough to tell me
not to exceed my alternators capacity.

--
- AUSTIN BECKER
"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:ivGEf.316169$tl.80951@pd7tw3no...
Heheh, not to mention, adding a "second alternator" would be a MAJOR
PITA with almost any vehicle in existence.

Austin Becker wrote:
1000W Alternator, eh? Last I checked they were rated in amps, and the
amount of power an alternator can supply is dependent upon it's amp
rating
and the wiring that is run for the charging system. Maybe you should
check
this out....
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#bat%20wire
Watts = Amps x Volts.
If his stock alternator is 90 Amps, and the supply regulator on the
alternator is set to 12V (which is a pretty good possibility), that's
1080W
potential. if he has a stock 120 amp alternator, that's 1440 watts.
That's
a pretty big difference. And with a 760W amplifier, his amp is probably
using less than that, unless he's got no idea how to set the gains and
has
them cranked to max. There is no need for a capacitor because it's not
going to provide more amps to the amplifier. If dimming is a problem,
start
cheap by upgrading wiring. Wiring should be upgraded before adding
another
alternator. Especially with a 760W sony amplifier which is probably not
even accurate for what it puts out. and not to mention that those
ratings
are almost always given for the amp running at 14.4 V, my guess is that
it's
probably closer to 650W with the gains up, and probably running at 600w.
that still leaves him with a potential 400+ watts that the battery and
alternator can supply. If the wire upgrade (which is typically like
$15-25
depending upon where you get it and what size) does not fix the problem,
than get a new Alternator. But to get a higher output alternator, you
have
to upgrade wiring, so you'd already be one step ahead of yourself there.
But if you do replace the alternator, it's a good idea to replace the
battery as well. The battery may not be able to handle the extra
current
coming from a high output alternator. Wire upgrade would be far more
beneficial and cost effective at this point than buying a second
alternator
or battery.



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Virus Database (VPS): 0605-4, 02/01/2006
Tested on: 2/3/2006 2:45:33 AM
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get the best $80 or less you can get then trade it back every 11-13
months. youll get only pay $12 or so to trade up n have a fresh battery.
$12 it worth a great sounding system i think....
1f cap..lol..lmao!!!!!
bigger is better to a point. id never ever go less than 2.0cap......
why stress you system....
itll stay charged with no trouble...by just driving regular.
if you dont always have $150 a yr to put into your car system....stay
out......or
$300 every 2 yrs. etc.

i'm am so sick of people crying that a cap puts strain on a electical
system!
heres 50c call some1 who cares..lol
unless youre using over a 3 cap on a small alt.
blasting it over 90% of max power alot.
''which is stupid.'' then you should have no trouble as long as your
battery good n plenty big enough......
one other thing maybe in the winter it might give you minor trouble....
also last tip keep all your amps under 110amp draw....thats plenty loud
enough....

*scratches head* Huh?

--
- AUSTIN BECKER
"bob wald" wrote in message
...
i'm am so sick of people crying that a cap puts strain on a electical
system!
heres 50c call some1 who cares..lol
unless youre using over a 3 cap on a small alt.
blasting it over 90% of max power alot.
''which is stupid.'' then you should have no trouble as long as your
battery good n plenty big enough......
one other thing maybe in the winter it might give you minor trouble....
also last tip keep all your amps under 110amp draw....thats plenty loud
enough....