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an interesting archive of R.A.T.



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 6th 15, 12:17 AM posted to rec.audio.tubes
Big Bad Bob
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Posts: 366
Default an interesting archive of R.A.T.

http://www.audiobanter.com/forumdisp...=10&order=desc

seems to be an edited archive of R.A.T. - also lets you mark things as
'abusive' so for grins, I went back to mid-2011, and some specific troll
posts, particularly ones targeted at me, are NOT in the archive.

heh. buh, bye! [at one point a particular troll was just irritating me
to the point I simply stopped posting for a while, looks like a LONG
while, since it was 4 years ago]

saw a few names like 'flipper' 'Patrick Turner' and others who made for
interesting discussions.

unfortunately the N.G. has grown pretty quiet.

I might use this to post some information from past posts, like THIS link:

www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/Catalog%2065.pdf

(1965 Hammond Catalog)
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  #2  
Old November 2nd 15, 01:06 PM posted to rec.audio.tubes
Patrick Turner
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Default an interesting archive of R.A.T.

On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 10:18:11 UTC+11, Big Bad Bob wrote:
> http://www.audiobanter.com/forumdisp...=10&order=desc
>
> seems to be an edited archive of R.A.T. - also lets you mark things as
> 'abusive' so for grins, I went back to mid-2011, and some specific troll
> posts, particularly ones targeted at me, are NOT in the archive.
>
> heh. buh, bye! [at one point a particular troll was just irritating me
> to the point I simply stopped posting for a while, looks like a LONG
> while, since it was 4 years ago]
>
> saw a few names like 'flipper' 'Patrick Turner' and others who made for
> interesting discussions.
>
> unfortunately the N.G. has grown pretty quiet.
>
> I might use this to post some information from past posts, like THIS link:
>
> www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/Catalog%2065.pdf
>
> (1965 Hammond Catalog)


Good evening Mr Bad Bob,

It sure has gone quiet for about the last 7 years, maybe it was a result of two things, the GFC, and everyone getting older.

Newspapers and other press here told us how the middle class in USA went back down a class or two so they has less money, and the joy of life evaporated - no more time or spare cash to spent on hobbies.

Maybe everyone who developed a craze for tube amps after the previous 30 years of being denied the chance because of family commitments then built one amp, with many declaring themselves to be an expert, and soon the craze went the way of all crazes, as ageing took hold, and without fuss, they just let it all go.

In 2012 I retired from building custom built hi-fi amps for audio enthusiasts who hated paying tradesmen's wages, but who whipped out the credit card for the new kitchen their wife wanted. The wife got the kitchen, but of course dinner tasted just the same.

Health matters have gnawed away at by enthusiasm to create. The gloom about dying becomes bearable and life just is. Life does not have to have a reason. God is dead, because the God we were taught about never ever existed, and when ya die, ya gone, there's nothing afterwards, so be good while alive, its the only chance you'll get. Nobody knows why Infinity, and Eternity seem to exist, or why the speed of light is so SLOW! Without more explanations we will all die very dumb. There remains for me enough fresh felt wonderment so I happily spend all day in my shed building electronic gadgets just for the trip.

My latest foray has been to explore AM modulators for test signal purposes. I have a working HP606A Big Bad Box fulla tooobes and tuned LC for about 7 bands from 50kHz to 65MHz. But the AM produced is very lack lustre indeed, with high envelope distortion. Of course, the RF generator part of the 606A is the major thing, and it is a Grand Masterpiece Of Workmanship which represents the USA of old days before all the rot set in. I watched a video recently about a guy who bought a Tektronix 555 on Ebay with over 100 tubes, and it worked just fine.

Anyway, I went for what I could use, a modulator which would accept raw HF carrier signals from a few sig genies I have as well as from 606A, so I've ended up with a modulator for Vc = 10kHz to 5MHz in ONE untuned "band" and with a couple of hand wound toroid chokes and with 2N2222, BF469 ,BF470, all so much easier than using a batch of pentodes and tuned LC.So far, without any NFB to correct envelope THD, I'm getting two balanced outputs of 2Vrms each with 1.3% THD on envelope shape ( compared with shape of audio input wave ) at 99% modulation depth. The exercise has taught me a whole lot more. I soon learnt the majority of BS online about AM was extremely un-informative; if anyone wants to learn, they MUST build, measure, observe, re-do, re-learn, and fill exercise books with schematical thoughts to try, evaluate, and move on to a conclusion with a web-page.

I still have numerous tube projects to complete, but death may intervene before 2047 when I would be 100. My old mum died at 98, but many other relatives and friends died before 61, and I'm 68, and I'm on borrowed time. I do not want to travel, buy a new car, or change houses. A lawyer said to me, "doncha wanna live somewhere else, and better ?" The house he's in is nowhere near as good as the better ones in his posh area of countryside, he's become an ugly caricature of what he might have been life at 30, and his house is full of old junk furniture and needs about 200 grand spent on upgrades. I just said its no good spending one cent on moving house when i'd be just as lonely and unlikely yo live more than 5 more years, AND, I'm happy where I am, and I enjoy frugality, and am largely at peace about accepting what Unkel Fait and Aunty Destiny have in mind for my brief continuance. He didn't want to talk about life any more. I am not into materialism in a huge way at all. So many ppl cannot talk about life because immediately they are faced with a huge pile of inconsistent realizations about themselves and their relationships and way of spending time and money.

I am currently finding that riding 10,000km a year on a bicycle to stay in shape and for the euphoria is becoming impossible; my knees have become my enemy. OK, so I just don't ride much, but OK, eat less, mainly vegetarian, and no sugar, alcohol, and I be gregarius with ppl I meet anyway, and weight remains under control, 1Kg more than the 82Kg I was when I was amateur racing cyclist at 37, and arthritis don't stop me hobbling around in the workshop filling in time.

So, regards to all. Occasionally I post up a new website page, I have 2 nearing completion.

Patrick Turner.
  #3  
Old November 2nd 15, 01:50 PM posted to rec.audio.tubes
Peter Wieck
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Posts: 2,418
Default an interesting archive of R.A.T.

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 8:06:39 AM UTC-5, Patrick Turner wrote:

> It sure has gone quiet for about the last 7 years, maybe it was a result of two things, the GFC, and everyone getting older.
>


Not so much that - those few individuals who shared space here and who had something to offer tend to be spending their time actually doing it, rather than blathering about it. I have spend more time immersed in tube gear these last 4 years than in the previous 20, for what that's worth. It comes from having a much better shop, more space, a very understanding and tolerant wife, and having reached critical mass - the hobby is now self-supporting such that I can sell off those things that have ceased to hold my attention and purchase those 'new' things that are catching without expending any 'new' money. And as we live in the former nexus of tubes (A****er Kent, Sylvania,Victor, RCA, Philco, Muntz, Cunningham, Dynaco, Hafler, Acrosound, Theil, Bendix, Westinghouse, and many more), there is still a LOT of stuff hiding in warehouses, garages, attics and more, that acquisition opportunities are many - if one is so-minded.

You would be shocked at what a young Chinese person will pay for an indifferent piece of American gear, as long as it is cosmetically intact. I have no guilt whatsoever sending stuff to China - our cash comes back, and they are forever reminded of what they cannot achieve on their own.

As to AM, I have a little AM transmitter that will deliver a full 20-20K spectrum if running uncompressed, at about 100 mw (Part 15 legal). My 1930s Zenith Shutterdial sounds quite amazing. The transmitter is an SSTRAN AMT3000 - a kit-built unit, the kits made about 4 miles from where I live by a retired computer designer. Tiny little thing as well. But a very clean signal..

In any case, I am not far behind you in years - and I have, so far, one artificial joint (hip). That replacement, just this last June, has added at least 10 years to my life in mobility alone.

Take care!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
  #4  
Old November 8th 15, 04:25 PM posted to rec.audio.tubes
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default an interesting archive of R.A.T.

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 1:06:39 PM UTC, Patrick Turner wrote:
>
> I am currently finding that riding 10,000km a year on a bicycle to stay in shape and for the euphoria is becoming impossible; my knees have become my enemy. OK, so I just don't ride much, but OK, eat less, mainly vegetarian, and no sugar, alcohol, and I be gregarius with ppl I meet anyway, and weight remains under control, 1Kg more than the 82Kg I was when I was amateur racing cyclist at 37, and arthritis don't stop me hobbling around in the workshop filling in time.


10,000kmpa is a bit ambitious at 68. I still ride the hills, but nowhere near 10K; but then I was never a roadie, so I didn't aspire to the big round numbers.

Andre Jute
  #5  
Old November 27th 15, 09:47 AM posted to rec.audio.tubes
Patrick Turner
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Posts: 3,964
Default an interesting archive of R.A.T.

Andre Jute wrote....

10,000kmpa is a bit ambitious at 68. I still ride the hills, but nowhere near 10K; but then I was never a roadie, so I didn't aspire to the big round numbers.

Andre Jute

Well, the 10km++ a year was until about 2 months ago. I have genetically very poor knees, courtesy of my dear departed mother, who was, like me, a plodder, and who never rode a bike or ran anywhere. She prefered to look good on a horse at Centennial Park aged 25, super hot, but alas, no possible suitors noticed her there. Later she drove, and walked and swam, but in very limited amounts. I inherited her terrible knees combined with my dad's genes.. He set a NSW schoolboy running record for the Mile in about 1926. He had a terrible temper I am glad not to have inherited, so ppl tell me.
In 1994, a surgeon told me I needed new knee joints but also that I was too young then. OK, I struggle on after giving up the building trade. I thought I might learn a bit about hi-fi sound gear - a journey of wonderment.
In 2005, I could hardly stand up for longer than 5 minutes, and I needed pain drugs.
But the surgeon gave me an arthroscopy to tidy&clean both knees, and next day I found I had no pain, and a whole new life began with more confidence. In 2006, I got back on bike, and since then I've ridden about 100,000km, and I had a very fine time with a local ride group. Well, in June last year, while going up a very steep short hill, I felt something "give" and sure enough I'd hurt a knee. Well, maybe you'd expect that; it was an Irish hill, O'Conlon Crescent, and where **** which could happen, and it did happen.
Next doc, a young jerk said he wouldn't do an arthroscopy, and offered only two joints, about $30k, plus all other costs, and he said I'd be begging him for the knees soon enough. That was 15mths ago, no begging, but knees have same symptoms as in 2005, and scan reports fill 2 pages. No more bike because pain has returned, but now chasing the doc who did me in 2005, appointment is Feb, and maybe in 10 mths I get another arthroscopy, keep me going for maybe 5 more years. By then, other things probably will take me out. I need mobility because I live alone and the bicycle was the finest wheelchair I ever used.....

Meanwhile, there is a FABULOUS Thai restaurant which opened 3 years ago just nearby, and its my home away from my house, which I've never managed to make into a real home. Being gregarious at 68 is mainly a useless quality because most old ppl my age don't or can't or won't be friendly, and the few younger folks who turn up loathe all ppl over 35. Good cafe's have limitations.

But I tinker with all sorts of stuff, with more time now because I ain't spending 10 hours a week riding around, and I retired from working 50hrs a week on old junk for less net wages than the dole. Wonderment can only be stretched so far.

I get distracted, and this last month investigated the Gilbert Cell - using tubes, very good for DSB without carrier, but hopeless for normnal AM.
I then discovered AM using an LTP with bjts, and modulating with emitter current change, its the SS version of what HP did in about 1955 with their Fantabulous HP606A RF signal gene - I have one, and it works fine - and it uses all tubes and has a balanced oscillator, and balanced LTP RF amp with cathode modulation with 6B4. This piece of gear has 2 lots of tuned LC tanks on a rotating turret switch to get 6 x F ranges between 50kHz and 65MHz, with ability for 100% modulation and envelope THD < 1% at 95% mod depth. My efforts so far with untuned circuits and bjts is 100kHz to 4MHz, with about 5% THD at 2MHz.
HP used NFB to remove envelope THD with internal detector signal compared with AF input signal. I've done that in an SE oscillator in about 2005, good, but nowhere near as good as HP.
But, to apply about 20dB FB around the circuit where modulated carrier is involved, and without tunes circuits, the darn thing just oscillates with parasitics no matter what theoretical cures I think up and apply. Remarkably, there isn't much online which where others have had success.
But I've learnt, and some ideas just will not work, and to get my pathetic attempts with bjts to work anywhere near as well as tubes in HP, I'd have to use tuned RF circuits which have the magical quality of supressing parasitic oscillations, because the LC can only work at ONE F, not several, or allow broadband noise to occur.

I think electronics with soldering iron and old things is better than doing crosswords because those only prod memory, making stuff to work prods problem solving AND memory. Both need constant prodding, to delay insanity for as long as possible.

Keep well, try to stay sane,
Patrick Turner.
  #6  
Old November 27th 15, 07:42 PM
John L Stewart John L Stewart is offline
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Location: Toronto
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Keep on motivating Patrick. I've noticed rigor mortis sets in early in folks around me who sit back & take it easy. I've never had a 10K km year on the bike but I've done a couple of 8K km & quite a few 5K km while travelling in the job a lot at HP and R&S. Managed to take the bike along a few times to have a good look around. Still biking at 83 now, my 44th season. Just 2 lb heavier than I wuz at 30 years.

Feeling some minor problems in joints but that goes away as soon as I get moving. I figure I will end up on the bumper of a MAC truck!

This year only 2200 km but all in four months. Now comes four months of cross country skiing. And lots of physical work here. Just finished running a log splitter & chain saw for several days getting firewood ready for the long winter here. And plenty of maintenance, the house is already 45 years since we built out here in the woods. But the big city is getting closer very quickly now.

For electronics I mainly run the circuit simulator. Any soldering is fix a pipe or something else, no toobz.

Cheers to all, John Stewart
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  #7  
Old November 30th 15, 10:08 PM posted to rec.audio.tubes
Peter Wieck
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Posts: 2,418
Default an interesting archive of R.A.T.

On Friday, November 27, 2015 at 7:37:08 PM UTC-5, John L Stewart wrote:
> Keep on motivating Patrick. I've noticed rigor mortis sets in early in
> folks around me who sit back & take it easy.


This solution is not for everyone, but two active dogs make sure that neither I nor my wife will stagnate. They simply will not permit it to the tune of about 1.5 mile (each) each day.Neither rain, nor snow, nor sleet, nor hail nor dark of night will discourage them.

I admit it was painful in the weeks leading up to my recent hip replacement - but the post-surgery recovery time, per my surgeon, was remarkably short..

As to tubes, I have spent more time with them over the last two years than the last 10. I have built a couple of clones (Fisher & Dynaco), helped a neighbor with a couple of home-brew instrument amps - troubleshooting (successfully) as recently as last evening, and I am listening mostly to the tube system these days at home.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
 




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