Hi all,
I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this
one...
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in
mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or
could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made
(with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with
transformers).
Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of
electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was
true or not.
What do you think?
(Many thanks in advance)
Andy

Andy
Balderdash cubed. Your friend heard the daftest thing I've read in ages!

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,
I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this
one...
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in
mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or
could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made
(with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with
transformers).
Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of
electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was
true or not.
What do you think?
(Many thanks in advance)
Andy

If the power supplies were marginally designed running them on 60 Hz.
rather than 50 could give lower noise and a cooler running power
transformer. In fact some studios have used variable frequency supplies
to run guitar amps and other vintage/boutique **** at higher than 60 Hz
for dropping the noise and making them run quieter.

Motors in tape transports may have been happier at one frequency-their
speed certainly changed, so either different drive mechanicals or
different motors were used. So again the 50 hz setup could have some
small difference.

Whether 50 or 60 Hz is "better" is a non-issue, but whether a given
box works better on one or the other is a relevant question. Most any
power transformer small enough to pick up and carry-except for
ferroresonant supply types which need a specific frequency-will like 60
better than 50 Hz.

Americans have the best of both worlds in that we have 60 Hz and in
almost all homes both 120 (one hot one neutral) and 240 VAC (two hots).
(Generally we refuse to use this good fortune.) If you want a 50 Hz
supply it's eay enough to either cobble up a surplus UPS (most will
give 50 or 60 Hz at low distortion if you get a good one surplus-the
landfills are full of them) or get two motors that will act as
generators, and couple them up with pulleys, one five-sixths the size
of the other.

wrote:
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in
mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or
could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made
(with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with
transformers).

Well, since pretty much all audio equipment today runs off of DC anyway,
it's not an issue. Everything has a power supply inside (or a crappy
wall-wart) that turns the AC line into rectified and probably regulated
DC power. So the line frequency is a non-issue.

It's true that synchronous motors tend to have lower flutter at the 60 Hz
mains frequency. But since most of the higher grade tape machines today
are either digital or use DC servo motors now, that's a non-issue too.
Could be an issue with an old Ampex 350, though.

Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of
electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was
true or not.
What do you think?

I think that either one is fine. The thing to watch out for is 400 Hz
aircraft power. If you think 50 Hz hum is bad, 400 Hz whine is just
deafening, and it leaks into everything much more easily.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks everyone!
All the best

Andy

High cycle three phase has the advantage of being obvious and therefore
easy to track down and requiring really good shielding and grounding.
When you've stamped it out, it's stamped out. It's a moot point,
though, unless you're building a flying recording studio.

Many turntable people feel DC servo motors are less desirable than AC
synchronous motors. Whether that's true or not I am not sure, but AC
motors leverage modern power companies' quite good frequency control
pretty well. Also you can use a AF gen and a bench amp to run things at
any speed (within reason) such as for playing 78s on the 45 rpm pulley
of a table.

wrote:
Thanks everyone!
All the best

Andy


A more interesting question is the impact of using those peak reading
style level meters they like to use in the UK instead of the VU meters
we like to use in the US.

Mark

wrote:
High cycle three phase has the advantage of being obvious and therefore
easy to track down and requiring really good shielding and grounding.
When you've stamped it out, it's stamped out. It's a moot point,
though, unless you're building a flying recording studio.

I do a lot of recording in airplanes and 400 Hz trash is the bane of
my life. It's everywhere, and sadly enough the electronics I am often
connected to are anything but well-shielded and grounded.

Many turntable people feel DC servo motors are less desirable than AC
synchronous motors. Whether that's true or not I am not sure, but AC
motors leverage modern power companies' quite good frequency control
pretty well. Also you can use a AF gen and a bench amp to run things at
any speed (within reason) such as for playing 78s on the 45 rpm pulley
of a table.

I think a lot of the argument is because there have been some very badly
designed DC servo systems in turntables over the years. There are a
number of units like the Ariston, which never stops hunting. Also, of
course, some people make the incorrect assumption that DC servo means
direct drive.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

That and there's also the different curves -CCIR vs NAB-and a few
hundred other minor details. However the world is getting to be a much
more uniform place than it was forty years ago-technically at least.

As far as metrering goes, does anyone really serious use anything
besides Dorrough today?

wrote:
That and there's also the different curves -CCIR vs NAB-and a few
hundred other minor details. However the world is getting to be a much
more uniform place than it was forty years ago-technically at least.

That is one of the big things that the digital world has made much easier.
I haven't even heard anyone arguing about digital emphasis being a good
thing in nearly a decade now.

As far as metrering goes, does anyone really serious use anything
besides Dorrough today?

I like the RTW meters a lot more than the Dorrough, but to be honest
I still use old Western Electric moving iron meters sometimes. And
the Nagra modulometer..... and the PPM meters on the Ampex... sheesh,
you'd think we could settle on just one metering standard.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Lol :-)

.... Oh well...

Andy

wrote:

Hi all,
I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this
one...
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in
mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or
could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made
(with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with
transformers).

Your friend is taking too many drugs !


Graham

wrote:

If the power supplies were marginally designed running them on 60 Hz.
rather than 50 ......

Ohhhh - you took the troll seriously ?


Graham

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:33:38 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:


wrote:

If the power supplies were marginally designed running them on 60 Hz.
rather than 50 ......

Ohhhh - you took the troll seriously ?

How can this be a troll? It's not crossposted.



Graham

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

Hi all,
I'm not a troll - really - I just asked a silly question (and got some
enjoyably silly answers)....
Thanks to all who took the time to put me straight...
Regards
Andy

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,
I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this
one...
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in
mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or
could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made
(with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with
transformers).
Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of
electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was
true or not.
What do you think?

You are nearly right - you 'almost' have enough electronics knowledge to be
dangerous.

Unless there was recorded hum and you can tell the difference between 50 and
60Hz, then your drunk friend is letting the pub-product do the talking.
There is no inherent, or perceivable different unless something is broken.

geoff

Geoff Wood wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,
I really would value the benefit of your knowledge/experience on this
one...
In the pub last night a friend said he had heard that the difference in
mains voltage/frequency between the US and the UK meant there was (or
could be) an inherent difference in the quality of recordings made
(with the same pieces of gear) (possibly something to do with
transformers).
Unfortunately, as between us we only have enough knowledge of
electronics to be very dangerous, we couldn't decide whether it was
true or not.
What do you think?

You are nearly right - you 'almost' have enough electronics knowledge to be
dangerous.

Unless there was recorded hum and you can tell the difference between 50 and
60Hz, then your drunk friend is letting the pub-product do the talking.
There is no inherent, or perceivable different unless something is broken.

You used to be able to tell where it might have been recorded in days of old by
the 'hum frequency'.

Equipment's better these days - even the guitar amps !


Graham