[[email protected]]

Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. While it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besides that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearly in a typical football game marching show.

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different directions as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio doesn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing maybe?

What say you?

https://youtu.be/7iN-qyqq7ns

[Frank Stearns]

writes:

Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck=
me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. Whi=
le it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besid=
es that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics =
sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearl=
y in a typical football game marching show.=20

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different d=
irections as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I=
don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio do=
esn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing may=
be?

Pretty good band.

I'd say live... Listen again, perhaps with good headphones. There *are* some rather
major variations in instrument balance and imaging as they move around. Perhaps a
little zoom recorder caught the thing from the 50 yard line, and they used that for
the audio. Under the right conditions, those little critters do pretty well. One
thing here, you have a hellish amount of SPL from the band to overcome many flaws of
such a recording setting.

Oh, the other give-away... I hear a first and second reflection and a little
splatter off each. That would be tricky to duplicate in, say, a
studio setting.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Nil[_2_]]

On 06 Aug 2015, Frank Stearns
wrote in rec.audio.pro:

Pretty good band.

I'd say live... Listen again, perhaps with good headphones. There
*are* some rather major variations in instrument balance and
imaging as they move around. Perhaps a little zoom recorder caught
the thing from the 50 yard line, and they used that for the audio.
Under the right conditions, those little critters do pretty well.
One thing here, you have a hellish amount of SPL from the band to
overcome many flaws of such a recording setting.

I'm not so sure about that. The sousaphones seem to always be coming
from toward the right and the snare drums seem to always be toward the
left, no matter where they are on the field. Not completely sure about
that, though. The micing position would probably have been static and
the sound field wouldn't necessarily match up with the camera shots. I
was wondering if the mics might have been suspended from overhead, but
I think that would have made the moving instruments even more vivid.
However it was done, it sounds really good. Great dynamics.

Oh, the other give-away... I hear a first and second reflection
and a little splatter off each. That would be tricky to duplicate
in, say, a studio setting.

Seems to me it could have been recorded live in the venue at another
time, sans marching.

Pretty dang impressive marching! Maybe they all knew that to fail was
to dishonor the family.

[JackA]

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 2:41:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. While it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besides that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearly in a typical football game marching show.

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different directions as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio doesn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing maybe?

What say you?

https://youtu.be/7iN-qyqq7ns

Looks like it's enclosed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7RTcObuk4

Jack

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

Frank Stearns writes:

writes:

Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck=
me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. Whi=
le it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besid=
es that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics =
sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearl=
y in a typical football game marching show.=20

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different d=
irections as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I=
don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio do=
esn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing may=
be?

Pretty good band.

Yeah, I'd say a lot better than "pretty good," even. I was in a pretty
good marching band (Bay High, Panama City, FL) and we NEVER sounded
anywhere near THAT good! These folks sound as good as professional
bands/orchestras WHEN THEY'RE SITTING. Outstanding!
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[None]

thekma @ shortbus . edu wrote in message
...
Nil wrote: "
However it was done, it sounds really good. Great dynamics."

YOU WOULDN'T KNOW GREAT DYNAMICS IF THEY
HIT YOU UP SIDE YOUR HEAD, SUITCASE FACE!!

Is the caps-lock key an indication of a hypertension problem, bunky?
Most of the people here can actually listen and hear. Most of us are
very experienced in evaluating dynamics of recordings by ear.
Evaluating all kinds of things by ear, actually. You're apparently
tone-deaf and evaluate only by looking at a display. Not everyone has
to be as talentless and moronic as you.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE HELL IT WAS
RECORDED, SUITCASE-FACE?! YOU'RE JUST A COWARD
HIDING BEHIND ALIASES LIKE 'Nil' and 'None', CRITICIZING
OTHERS TO COVER YOUR OWN LACK OF KNOWLEDGE
OF THE SUBJECT!!

Are you back on that retarded kick about us being the same person? Are
you really that stupid? Why yes, stupidity is your legacy!

GET LOST, SUITCASE-FACE, AND LET THE ADULTS
CONVERSE IN PEACE!!!!

Got a problem with suitcases, li'l buddy? Try not to burst an artery
or anything. And don't try to pretend that you have more knowledge of
the subject than the r.a.p. regulars. You don't. You can't school the
pros. You just end up drooling on your toes, and exposing to everyone
what a dumb **** you really are. What you need is to un-click your
caps-lock key, and sit down and have a leisurely glass of wine. Relax.
No, not relapse; relax. Put on some soothing music. Something without
too much dynamic range. Just a little too much excitement could push
you over the edge, which you're very close to. You might snap, and end
up some kind of tragic headline.

When you come back here with your same old ignorance, denial, refusal
to learn, and failed attempts to show how smart you are, you're in for
more of the same treatment. And you will come back, with the same old
dumb****ery. Over and over again. Like a dog chasing its tail. You
need a new hobbyhorse. FCKWAFA.

[[email protected]]

No problem with suitcases - except that you
fold up like one whenever you are challenged
as to why loudness talk sets YOU off so
readily!


Do you have a vested interest in the recording
industry? Can you produce a discography of
artists & albums you've engineered?


Time to fess up - SUITCASE-FACE.

[None]

thekma @ sausagefest . org wrote in message
...
quack quack quack

Aren't you supposed to be ignoring me?

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

What say you? =20

https://youtu.be/7iN-qyqq7ns

It's an X-Y or M-S stereo pair possibly with some audience spots and
possibly a spot on the sides pointed at the majorette.
The reason why you don't hear the image drifting around so much is that
the microphones are actually pretty far back and nor widely separated.

But you can hear them moving closer toward the main pair at 1:40 or so
and then backing away from it. Also listen to the sousaphones, you can
hear the change when they turn.

This is really a remarkably sounding room, though. Most stadiums in the
US have bigtime slap echo issues and someone has actually taken some time
with the hall acoustics here. That's the impressive part.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. While it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besides that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearly in a typical football game marching show.

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different directions as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio doesn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing maybe?

What say you?

https://youtu.be/7iN-qyqq7ns

Not live. There are no mics on the instruments and the sound balance,
presence and volume do not change no matter where they are on the
field. Particularly listen to the ambience when the conductor speaks -
it is totally different to that of the performance.

d

[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:
Not live. There are no mics on the instruments and the sound balance,
presence and volume do not change no matter where they are on the
field. Particularly listen to the ambience when the conductor speaks -
it is totally different to that of the performance.

The ambience when the conductor speaks IS totally different, but that might
well be the sound director switching to a spot mike pointed from the stands.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nil[_2_]]

On 06 Aug 2015, thekma wrote in rec.audio.pro:

YOU WOULDN'T KNOW GREAT DYNAMICS IF THEY
HIT YOU UP SIDE YOUR HEAD, SUITCASE FACE!!

"SUITCASE FACE!!"??? OMG! LOL!

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE HELL IT WAS
RECORDED, SUITCASE-FACE?! YOU'RE JUST A COWARD
HIDING BEHIND ALIASES LIKE 'Nil' and 'None', CRITICIZING
OTHERS TO COVER YOUR OWN LACK OF KNOWLEDGE
OF THE SUBJECT!!

My dearest Thekma, I've probably said this before, but it deserves to
be said again: You are off your rocker. You have no clue what you're
talking about.

Get help. And learn how to quote. I did not write the words you
attribute to me.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 07 Aug 2015, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

My guess is it is live and the mics are visable at 5:20 at the
bottom of the screen.

I didn't notice those before. I can see at least two camera operators
down there, but I can't tell if one of those guys is carrying some
microphones. I'll have to wait until I have a chance to watch it on a
larger screen. If there's a roving mic, that could explain how the
stereo image stays relatively consistent.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil wrote:
On 07 Aug 2015, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

My guess is it is live and the mics are visable at 5:20 at the
bottom of the screen.

I didn't notice those before. I can see at least two camera operators
down there, but I can't tell if one of those guys is carrying some
microphones. I'll have to wait until I have a chance to watch it on a
larger screen. If there's a roving mic, that could explain how the
stereo image stays relatively consistent.

Part of it is that the stereo image is so collapsed that it can keep good
stability. The guys that did this are good.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Frank Stearns]

(Don Pearce) writes:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. While it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besides that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearly in a typical football game marching show.

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different directions as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio doesn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing maybe?

What say you?

https://youtu.be/7iN-qyqq7ns

Not live. There are no mics on the instruments and the sound balance,
presence and volume do not change no matter where they are on the
field. Particularly listen to the ambience when the conductor speaks -
it is totally different to that of the performance.

Not sure what you're listening on, but indeed the image shifts a great deal on my
monitoring system as the band moves around.

Conductor ambience is very much in-line. Having done 1000s of location recordings in
various acoustic environments and heard all sort of variations on this "theme", I
can assure you that the conductor speech tonality is very much "in sync" with how
the band sounds -- given the space.

What you might be overlooking here is the enormous SPL of the band, which might
swamp some of the spatial cues when the band plays. But if you have good left/right
and front/back imaging with your monitor system, and have had experience in this
kind of setting, you can "listen through" all that. (Oh, and there is a reasonably
good AGC at work here.)

I do suspect this was an X-Y type of stereo pair, as it does not have quite the
front-to-back depth I like to hear -- though the 1st and 2nd slaps from the space
help reconstruct that depth a little bit. The left-to-right is quite good, however.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 16:00:52 -0500, Frank Stearns
wrote:

(Don Pearce) writes:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Someone posted this on Facebook - from a marching band contest. What struck me is that what's being seen doesn't seem to match what's being heard. While it appears that they're definitely playing and the rhythm matches, besides that it's a really tight performance for a marching band, the acoustics sound like a concert hall. For ex. you never hear the clarinets that clearly in a typical football game marching show.

There doesn't seem to be variation in the audio as they turn in different directions as you would expect from being mic'd from a particular vantage. I don't see any mics or mic packs on the individual players and the audio doesn't sound close-mic'd it sounds like a concert hall. Overhead mic'ing maybe?

What say you?

https://youtu.be/7iN-qyqq7ns

Not live. There are no mics on the instruments and the sound balance,
presence and volume do not change no matter where they are on the
field. Particularly listen to the ambience when the conductor speaks -
it is totally different to that of the performance.

Not sure what you're listening on, but indeed the image shifts a great deal on my
monitoring system as the band moves around.

Conductor ambience is very much in-line. Having done 1000s of location recordings in
various acoustic environments and heard all sort of variations on this "theme", I
can assure you that the conductor speech tonality is very much "in sync" with how
the band sounds -- given the space.

What you might be overlooking here is the enormous SPL of the band, which might
swamp some of the spatial cues when the band plays. But if you have good left/right
and front/back imaging with your monitor system, and have had experience in this
kind of setting, you can "listen through" all that. (Oh, and there is a reasonably
good AGC at work here.)

I do suspect this was an X-Y type of stereo pair, as it does not have quite the
front-to-back depth I like to hear -- though the 1st and 2nd slaps from the space
help reconstruct that depth a little bit. The left-to-right is quite good, however.

Frank
Mobile Audio

SPL can't swamp spatial cues - unless the air is non-linear (something
that I believe has been observed close to a Saturn-5 launch). I heard
minor sound variations, but nothing that would be accounted for by
probably 3:1 distance ratios from the width of the field. If they had
mics strung above the field centre I would possibly go for live, but I
saw no such thing.

d

[Nil[_2_]]

On 07 Aug 2015, Nil wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

On 07 Aug 2015, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

My guess is it is live and the mics are visable at 5:20 at the
bottom of the screen.

I didn't notice those before. I can see at least two camera
operators down there, but I can't tell if one of those guys is
carrying some microphones. I'll have to wait until I have a chance
to watch it on a larger screen. If there's a roving mic, that
could explain how the stereo image stays relatively consistent.

I just watched that part of the video again. I see two cameras on
wheels and two guys behind them keeping the cables out of the way. One
of the camera appears to be reading his cues from a score! I don't see
any obvious microphones.

[Frank Stearns]

(Don Pearce) writes:

snips

SPL can't swamp spatial cues - unless the air is non-linear (something

If you take human hearing out of the picture, you're quite right. SPL isn't
going to change how the air behaves until you hit that super high SPL you noted.

But put ears back in the picture and yes, under some circumstances it can, in this
manner. To accommodate high SPL, the "dynamic window" of the human auditory system
will shift up. Some of the lower-level cues might be below that window.

Humans have a remarkable ability to resolve very fine differences in location -- but
not so readily under high SPL because of the protective non-linearities that can
develop.

Maybe it's just me, but under higher SPL (which I avoid like the plague) that
resolution isn't quite as good as at lower levels. Oh sure, I still get general
directionality at high SPL, but it's not nearly as precise. And, of course, you can
go too quiet and have cues go below the hearing threshold entirely.

I'm thinking here of experiencing directional precision with acoustic music
(unamplified chamber group or smaller vocal ensemble) so as to keep one's ears in
their optimal operating range. In a good room, even fairly far away, you should be
able to close your eyes and pin-point each instrument and nearly every voice.

Here's where it can get doubly tricky in terms of monitoring. Some monitor systems
might not resolve those very subtle cues; the room itself might contribute as you
excite various early reflection problems with higher SPL in an untreated room.

One thing you might try with this clip is playback at various levels -- see if for
you the image "clarity" changes.

that I believe has been observed close to a Saturn-5 launch). I heard

Or the shuttle -- 188 dB - vacuum on the rarefaction side! I would not want to be
very close to that SPL.

minor sound variations, but nothing that would be accounted for by
probably 3:1 distance ratios from the width of the field. If they had
mics strung above the field centre I would possibly go for live, but I
saw no such thing.

One thing I discovered long ago that has always surprised me -- how a stereo pair
only a few feet off the ground can get a pretty good image. That's not my usual
practice for a number or reasons, but you can get a surprisingly capture if you have
to do that.

It's entirely possible that the stereo pair for this recording was low enough to be
out of the shot -- and yet still get a good capture. And again, a lot of sound
coming off the group helps mask other problems, such as nearby people coughing or
rattling programs.

It sure would have been fun to be there -- but with earplugs!

Frank
Mobile Audio
--