[[email protected]]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ3Ku_wVeWQ

Artists: THIS is how a song should sound!!!

[JackA]

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 10:47:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ3Ku_wVeWQ

Artists: THIS is how a song should sound!!!

I like this better...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diTO-A7LauY

Jack

[[email protected]]

JackA:

Brothers Johnson! Good example. Too bad
the speed is about 2% too fast.

Too bad stuff like this gets limited or compressed
and regained before going on CD. Sure,
it plays back louder, but something was lost.

[JackA]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 7:25:19 AM UTC-4, wrote:
JackA:

Brothers Johnson! Good example. Too bad
the speed is about 2% too fast.

Well, you know those vinyl player things!
Actually, ~2% speed increase was common for a lot of recordings.


Too bad stuff like this gets limited or compressed
and regained before going on CD. Sure,
it plays back louder, but something was lost.

On CD it seems to have more bass.

Stevie Wonder - Longest version known to mankind. Multi-track mix, sound isn't that great, but it'll do. Think Stevie plays drums...

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abps...tition-rm2.mp3


Jack

[[email protected]]

JackA wrote: "On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 7:25:19 AM UTC-4, wrote:
JackA:

Brothers Johnson! Good example. Too bad
the speed is about 2% too fast.

Well, you know those vinyl player things!
Actually, ~2% speed increase was common for a lot of recordings."

The extra speed comes from this guy's turntable, not the recording.

The speed on the youtube I posted, above, of Chas Jankel, checks
out to within half of one %.


"
Too bad stuff like this gets limited or compressed
and regained before going on CD. Sure,
it plays back louder, but something was lost.

On CD it seems to have more bass."

The louder a recording is(via playback or in production)
the easier it is to hear low frequencies. That might be
a clue as to what was done to it for digital.

Google "equal loudness" and "Fletcher-Munson" for
more on how our hearing works.

[John Williamson]

On 22/06/2015 13:49, wrote:
JackA wrote: "On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 7:25:19 AM UTC-4, wrote:
JackA:

Brothers Johnson! Good example. Too bad
the speed is about 2% too fast.

Well, you know those vinyl player things!
Actually, ~2% speed increase was common for a lot of recordings."

The extra speed comes from this guy's turntable, not the recording.

The speed on the youtube I posted, above, of Chas Jankel, checks
out to within half of one %.

Is that compared with your own measurements made at the recording
session or the copy you have in your personal collection?

Was the playback speed of either copy controlled by or referred to the
mains frequency when you checked the speed? A lot of turntables use a
synchronous motor as a drive mechanism or a mains neon as a speed
reference, and in either case playback consistency can only be
guaranteed to about _+1% due to the permitted variation in mains frequency.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson:

I used my EARS, comparing it to other uploads
of that song on YouTube. I've trained them pretty
well to know 2% from 4.

I recorded a couple minutes of it to my daw, then placed
the exported wav into virtual DJ. Was half a percent off
from values listed on bpm websites. Checked a lot of my
files that way, anything larger than + or - 1% I could just
fix in the daw.

[JackA]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:16:59 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 22/06/2015 13:49, wrote:
JackA wrote: "On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 7:25:19 AM UTC-4, wrote:
JackA:

Brothers Johnson! Good example. Too bad
the speed is about 2% too fast.

Well, you know those vinyl player things!
Actually, ~2% speed increase was common for a lot of recordings."

The extra speed comes from this guy's turntable, not the recording.

The speed on the youtube I posted, above, of Chas Jankel, checks
out to within half of one %.

Is that compared with your own measurements made at the recording
session or the copy you have in your personal collection?

Was the playback speed of either copy controlled by or referred to the
mains frequency when you checked the speed? A lot of turntables use a
synchronous motor as a drive mechanism or a mains neon as a speed
reference, and in either case playback consistency can only be
guaranteed to about _+1% due to the permitted variation in mains frequency.

That's old school AC stuff...
http://www.oddmix.com/motor/px/mot_a...ophon_115v.jpg

Most are DC motors. Accuracy as depends how good the strobe is.

..... I THINK! :-)

Jack


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[John Williamson]

On 22/06/2015 14:30, wrote:
John Williamson:

I used my EARS, comparing it to other uploads
of that song on YouTube. I've trained them pretty
well to know 2% from 4.

I recorded a couple minutes of it to my daw, then placed
the exported wav into virtual DJ. Was half a percent off
from values listed on bpm websites. Checked a lot of my
files that way, anything larger than + or - 1% I could just
fix in the daw.

So you are, in fact, just guessing how close to the original, performed
speed it is, then. And you are of course aware that listed BPM figures
in catalogues and on websites are the nearest integer to the actual BPM
of a song, so a song listed at 60 BPM could actually be anything from
59.5 to 60.5?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[John Williamson]

On 22/06/2015 14:44, JackA wrote:
On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:16:59 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
Was the playback speed of either copy controlled by or referred to the
mains frequency when you checked the speed? A lot of turntables use a
synchronous motor as a drive mechanism or a mains neon as a speed
reference, and in either case playback consistency can only be
guaranteed to about _+1% due to the permitted variation in mains frequency.

That's old school AC stuff...
http://www.oddmix.com/motor/px/mot_a...ophon_115v.jpg

Most are DC motors. Accuracy as depends how good the strobe is.

.... I THINK! :-)

I've yet to see a strobe on a turntable that didn't use mains as a
reference, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Adjustable speed
playback usually means a DC motor, but as the reference speed is
referred to mains, it makes no difference either way. Of course, you
*could* build a strobe with decent long term stability at a cost, but a
vanishingly small number of people can detect a 1% error in pitch
without using a reference tone.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:58:36 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 22/06/2015 14:44, JackA wrote:
On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:16:59 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
Was the playback speed of either copy controlled by or referred to the
mains frequency when you checked the speed? A lot of turntables use a
synchronous motor as a drive mechanism or a mains neon as a speed
reference, and in either case playback consistency can only be
guaranteed to about _+1% due to the permitted variation in mains frequency.

That's old school AC stuff...
http://www.oddmix.com/motor/px/mot_a...ophon_115v.jpg

Most are DC motors. Accuracy as depends how good the strobe is.

.... I THINK! :-)

I've yet to see a strobe on a turntable that didn't use mains as a
reference, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Adjustable speed
playback usually means a DC motor, but as the reference speed is
referred to mains, it makes no difference either way. Of course, you
*could* build a strobe with decent long term stability at a cost, but a
vanishingly small number of people can detect a 1% error in pitch
without using a reference tone.

You're probably correct with the strobe (frequency from mains).

In the past, they had DC motors with a governor, especially for battery operated devices. Regardless how much voltage you fed the motor, always a constant speed.

Jack



--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Scott Dorsey]

John Williamson wrote:
I've yet to see a strobe on a turntable that didn't use mains as a
reference, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Adjustable speed
playback usually means a DC motor, but as the reference speed is
referred to mains, it makes no difference either way. Of course, you
*could* build a strobe with decent long term stability at a cost, but a
vanishingly small number of people can detect a 1% error in pitch
without using a reference tone.

The thing is that we all have a 60 Hz reference tone somewhere in the room
somewhere. This allows you to make people think you have perfect pitch when
you have only good relative pitch.

It's very disconcerting, though, to go the Europe and all the air conditioning
systems are several notes flat. I totally lose my ability to judge pitch.

My ex could tell a couple semitones absolute shift, it was amazing and kind
of problematic. She made me get rid of the Revox A77 and bring a 440 home
from work...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/22/2015 9:58 AM, John Williamson wrote:
I've yet to see a strobe on a turntable that didn't use mains as a
reference, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

After overhauling the motor on my wind-up Victrola, I put a strobe disk
on the turntable while playing a record in order to calibrate the speed
indicator dial. Does that count?

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[JackA]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 11:24:33 AM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/22/2015 9:58 AM, John Williamson wrote:
I've yet to see a strobe on a turntable that didn't use mains as a
reference, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

After overhauling the motor on my wind-up Victrola, I put a strobe disk
on the turntable while playing a record in order to calibrate the speed
indicator dial. Does that count?

Music isn't for the birds, but for the (Nipper) dogs...
http://pdxretro.com/2011/08/the-vict...-date-in-1906/

Woofer that.

When RCA Camden was clearing its building(s), they opened it to the public, collectors and such. Shortly after, they had to contact these collectors, fearing they gave away some precious material for reissue!!!

Jack

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/23/2015 3:59 PM, JackA wrote:
When RCA Camden was clearing its building(s), they opened it to the
public, collectors and such.

They had a plant or distributor or something in Baltimore with a Nipper
on the roof. I used to see it every time I drove into Baltimore on the
Baltimore-Washington Parkway. When they closed it down someone in
Fairfax VA bought the statue and it was on his lawn a bit back from Lee
Highway in Falls Church for many years. One day I noticed that it was
gone, and the next week the whole hillside was dug up to build
apartments. Apparently nobody knows where the our doggie has gone.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[JackA]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 4:34:00 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/23/2015 3:59 PM, JackA wrote:
When RCA Camden was clearing its building(s), they opened it to the
public, collectors and such.

They had a plant or distributor or something in Baltimore with a Nipper
on the roof. I used to see it every time I drove into Baltimore on the
Baltimore-Washington Parkway. When they closed it down someone in
Fairfax VA bought the statue and it was on his lawn a bit back from Lee
Highway in Falls Church for many years. One day I noticed that it was
gone, and the next week the whole hillside was dug up to build
apartments. Apparently nobody knows where the our doggie has gone.

Poor lost Nipper.

Maybe he had fleas, and while on the roof, he decided to scratch and fell off and landed in some nested bushes!! :-)

Seems everyone wants Nipper....
http://articles.philly.com/2011-02-1...idge-ingersoll

Jack



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[JackA]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 5:12:11 PM UTC-4, JackA wrote:
On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 4:34:00 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/23/2015 3:59 PM, JackA wrote:
When RCA Camden was clearing its building(s), they opened it to the
public, collectors and such.

They had a plant or distributor or something in Baltimore with a Nipper
on the roof. I used to see it every time I drove into Baltimore on the
Baltimore-Washington Parkway. When they closed it down someone in
Fairfax VA bought the statue and it was on his lawn a bit back from Lee
Highway in Falls Church for many years. One day I noticed that it was
gone, and the next week the whole hillside was dug up to build
apartments. Apparently nobody knows where the our doggie has gone.

Poor lost Nipper.

Maybe he had fleas, and while on the roof, he decided to scratch and fell off and landed in some nested bushes!! :-)

Seems everyone wants Nipper....
http://articles.philly.com/2011-02-1...idge-ingersoll

And we know where that particular Nipper won't appear. Yeah, in California schools. With that American flag on his chest, he would be a disgrace...

http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter....a-high-school/

Not sure what a Ninth Circuit is, but maybe should be renamed Ninth Short Circuit. Sometimes I think it's better to undo the United States. Really.

Jack

Jack



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com