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#1
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Tube Damper????
Happy Thanks Giving to All
Do tube dampers really work??? Thanks Mike M |
#2
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No. It is audiophool nonsense.
"mike" wrote in message ink.net... Happy Thanks Giving to All Do tube dampers really work??? Thanks Mike M |
#3
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#4
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JamesG wrote:
No. It is audiophool nonsense. Unless the tube happens to be very microphonic then it could help. I remember seeing some metal "top hat" tube dampeners in the back of an old GA issue. Looked like anyone with a lathe could crank them out in minutes. Price, $225. Adam |
#5
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Thank you to all for the info.
I know Audio Research uses them on all their products. just curious Thanks again Mike M |
#6
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#7
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"mike" wrote in message .net... Thank you to all for the info. I know Audio Research uses them on all their products. just curious Thanks again Mike M Try it for yourself. Wind 20 turns of teflon tape directly around a tube and listen. Bill Beard used to do that I believe on signal valves. Personally I'd prefer to select less microphonic signal valves. The metal vaned coolers however do IMO extend power valve life considerably and if you ground the coolers on signal valves it acts a bit like shielding. You don't see screening cans around much nowadays. The very slight hum on my amps went when I grounded the signal valve coolers. I'm waiting for the flak ......... ;-) Mike G |
#8
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Mike Gilmour wrote: "mike" wrote in message .net... Thank you to all for the info. I know Audio Research uses them on all their products. just curious Thanks again Mike M Try it for yourself. Wind 20 turns of teflon tape directly around a tube and listen. Bill Beard used to do that I believe on signal valves. Personally I'd prefer to select less microphonic signal valves. The metal vaned coolers however do IMO extend power valve life considerably and if you ground the coolers on signal valves it acts a bit like shielding. You don't see screening cans around much nowadays. The very slight hum on my amps went when I grounded the signal valve coolers. I'm waiting for the flak ......... ;-) I don't see a need for tube dampers. Pick non microphonic tubes, and all will be well. Besides, some micro tubes would be still micro with dampers, since the elements sway around if the mica discs are loose. They used to place tubes in aircraft in tight fitting metal surrounds in an effort to keep them cool, with an air flow past the metal. The planes flew so fast the air flow was hot, so they had to use refrigeration to keep them cool. That made the planes heavy, since gridges are that way, and so some bright spark said let's use solid state. The fridges are still parked in an old hangar in Arizona; I suggest all cool dudes drop by and get a few of these US airforce units to keep the tubes cool. The only place I use those spring loaded metal jackets is on phono amps, and they help reduce hum, although I don't have much, since I use a j-fet in cascode with a 6EJ7 for the first stage of a phono amp. Patrick Turner. Mike G |
#9
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:48:43 +1100, Patrick Turner
wrote: Mike Gilmour wrote: "mike" wrote in message .net... Thank you to all for the info. I know Audio Research uses them on all their products. just curious Thanks again Mike M Try it for yourself. Wind 20 turns of teflon tape directly around a tube and listen. Bill Beard used to do that I believe on signal valves. Personally I'd prefer to select less microphonic signal valves. The metal vaned coolers however do IMO extend power valve life considerably and if you ground the coolers on signal valves it acts a bit like shielding. You don't see screening cans around much nowadays. The very slight hum on my amps went when I grounded the signal valve coolers. I'm waiting for the flak ......... ;-) I don't see a need for tube dampers. Pick non microphonic tubes, and all will be well. Besides, some micro tubes would be still micro with dampers, since the elements sway around if the mica discs are loose. They used to place tubes in aircraft in tight fitting metal surrounds in an effort to keep them cool, with an air flow past the metal. The planes flew so fast the air flow was hot, so they had to use refrigeration to keep them cool. That made the planes heavy, since gridges are that way, and so some bright spark said let's use solid state. Case closed..................... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#10
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:48:43 +1100, Patrick Turner wrote: Mike Gilmour wrote: "mike" wrote in message .net... Thank you to all for the info. I know Audio Research uses them on all their products. just curious Thanks again Mike M Try it for yourself. Wind 20 turns of teflon tape directly around a tube and listen. Bill Beard used to do that I believe on signal valves. Personally I'd prefer to select less microphonic signal valves. The metal vaned coolers however do IMO extend power valve life considerably and if you ground the coolers on signal valves it acts a bit like shielding. You don't see screening cans around much nowadays. The very slight hum on my amps went when I grounded the signal valve coolers. I'm waiting for the flak ......... ;-) I don't see a need for tube dampers. Pick non microphonic tubes, and all will be well. Besides, some micro tubes would be still micro with dampers, since the elements sway around if the mica discs are loose. They used to place tubes in aircraft in tight fitting metal surrounds in an effort to keep them cool, with an air flow past the metal. The planes flew so fast the air flow was hot, so they had to use refrigeration to keep them cool. That made the planes heavy, since gridges are that way, and so some bright spark said let's use solid state. Case closed..................... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering If aircraft had kept tubes maybe their sound systems wouldn't suck ;-) |
#11
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Brian McAllister wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:03:48 GMT, mike wrote: Happy Thanks Giving to All Do tube dampers really work??? Thanks Mike M Yes, tube TVs would be lost without them. They make for good rectifiers as well. And have good heater-cathode voltage ratings. |
#12
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The metal
vaned coolers however do IMO extend power valve life considerably and if you ground the coolers on signal valves it acts a bit like shielding. You don't see screening cans around much nowadays. The very slight hum on my amps went when I grounded the signal valve coolers. I'm waiting for the flak ......... ;-) No flak here. It makes sense that what you have is a heat sink and electrostatic shield. Mil spec tube shields were black (like a heat sink) and had finger stock that touched the envelope. That should damp the tube as well as conduct heat away. |
#13
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On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:19:05 -0000, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:48:43 +1100, Patrick Turner wrote: They used to place tubes in aircraft in tight fitting metal surrounds in an effort to keep them cool, with an air flow past the metal. The planes flew so fast the air flow was hot, so they had to use refrigeration to keep them cool. That made the planes heavy, since gridges are that way, and so some bright spark said let's use solid state. Case closed..................... If aircraft had kept tubes maybe their sound systems wouldn't suck ;-) The sound system in a MiG 25 is pretty bad, and it's all tubed! :-) -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#14
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:19:05 -0000, "Mike Gilmour" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:48:43 +1100, Patrick Turner wrote: They used to place tubes in aircraft in tight fitting metal surrounds in an effort to keep them cool, with an air flow past the metal. The planes flew so fast the air flow was hot, so they had to use refrigeration to keep them cool. That made the planes heavy, since gridges are that way, and so some bright spark said let's use solid state. Case closed..................... If aircraft had kept tubes maybe their sound systems wouldn't suck ;-) The sound system in a MiG 25 is pretty bad, and it's all tubed! :-) -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering Yea but remember the MiG 25 tubes temperature control is by vodka fumes :-) plus you get to enjoy the sheer dynamics of EMP! In the mean time all ss equipment in the area is a smokin' wreck.......Cool... |
#15
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:53:55 -0000, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:19:05 -0000, "Mike Gilmour" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:48:43 +1100, Patrick Turner wrote: They used to place tubes in aircraft in tight fitting metal surrounds in an effort to keep them cool, with an air flow past the metal. The planes flew so fast the air flow was hot, so they had to use refrigeration to keep them cool. That made the planes heavy, since gridges are that way, and so some bright spark said let's use solid state. Case closed..................... If aircraft had kept tubes maybe their sound systems wouldn't suck ;-) The sound system in a MiG 25 is pretty bad, and it's all tubed! :-) Yea but remember the MiG 25 tubes temperature control is by vodka fumes :-) plus you get to enjoy the sheer dynamics of EMP! In the mean time all ss equipment in the area is a smokin' wreck.......Cool... Actually, they got that wrong, too. Modern rad-hardened SS gear is also proof against EMP. It just needs an engineer to be told the threat, and he can come up with a defence. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#16
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote
The sound system in a MiG 25 is pretty bad, and it's all tubed! MiG sound systems are exceptionally good, but the listening space lets them down. No carpet, no soft furniture, thin walls and noisy neighbours. cheers, Ian |
#17
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"JamesG" wrote in message ... No. It is audiophool nonsense. "mike" wrote in message ink.net... Happy Thanks Giving to All Do tube dampers really work??? Thanks Mike M Well, as hip as it is to believe that, it's not. All tubes are inherently microphonic - ping a first-stage toob with your finger. Hear something? You bet. The spacing between the elements (as in grid to cathode, as a biggie) makes each tube a microphone by design. No matter how well engineered the support structures are. It was a standard practice to use isolation-mount (usually soft rubber doughnuts / grommets) sockets on, at least, the high-gain stages. And covering them with shields, which acted as more than shields - they added *mass* to the suspended assembly. Yeah, good engineering practices will minimize the effects of microphonics. Unfortunately, many new designers forget that those practices extend to mechanical construction. Isolating the tubes from vibration is one of them. So. In many cases dampers work (oh, let's say a guitah' combo amp, as an extreme). Encasing your phono preamp in a 500 pound block of cement will also work. I'm not saying to run out & buy the overpriced "audiophool" crap, or discount the fact that some dampers increase the toob's internal temp. & cause more harm than good, but a tube damper is not *entirely* snakeoil. -dim |
#18
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"Shiva" wrote in message news:jAHqd.3526$%R1.1962@trndny03... "JamesG" wrote in message ... No. It is audiophool nonsense. "mike" wrote in message ink.net... Happy Thanks Giving to All Do tube dampers really work??? Thanks Mike M Well, as hip as it is to believe that, it's not. All tubes are inherently microphonic - ping a first-stage toob with your finger. Hear something? You bet. The spacing between the elements (as in grid to cathode, as a biggie) makes each tube a microphone by design. No matter how well engineered the support structures are. It was a standard practice to use isolation-mount (usually soft rubber doughnuts / grommets) sockets on, at least, the high-gain stages. And covering them with shields, which acted as more than shields - they added *mass* to the suspended assembly. Yeah, good engineering practices will minimize the effects of microphonics. Unfortunately, many new designers forget that those practices extend to mechanical construction. Isolating the tubes from vibration is one of them. So. In many cases dampers work (oh, let's say a guitah' combo amp, as an extreme). Encasing your phono preamp in a 500 pound block of cement will also work. I'm not saying to run out & buy the overpriced "audiophool" crap, or discount the fact that some dampers increase the toob's internal temp. & cause more harm than good, but a tube damper is not *entirely* snakeoil. -dim The wisest approach is surely to select a non microphonic tube in the first place for the first stage (& all stages infact). One of my tests was through selecting non microphonic tubes and then playing speakers from another system very loud next to a tubed power amp and recording the output of that amplifier to DAT. What did I get on playback - a very low level hiss.. thats all. Too much is made of tube microphonics in audio...just buy your tubes from a decent supplier who actually tests them. If you are supplied with a microphonic tube then simply send it back. I use coolers that can also damp a microphonic tube a bit... but why not just change the tube? Mike |
#19
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"Shiva" wrote
... In many cases dampers work (oh, let's say a guitah' combo amp, as an extreme). Encasing your phono preamp in a 500 pound block of cement will also work. I'm not saying to run out & buy the overpriced "audiophool" crap, or discount the fact that some dampers increase the toob's internal temp. & cause more harm than good, but a tube damper is not *entirely* snakeoil. Depends on the context. If the problem is chassis-born vibration, a damper on the bottle will probably make matters worse. If air-born, it will make it better. So you want a block of cement for the chassis first, then a damper for the toob. I wonder how much effort is made in valve design to get the mechanical poles and zeros in the right places? cheers, Ian |
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