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Linux and audio pro
Hi
I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? : Linux agnula Ardour + Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall soundcraft... Fostex D 80 etc... regards |
#2
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#4
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1117293005k@trad... In article writes: I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? Only for the serious Linux fanatic who'd rather build his own operating system from a kit and keep adding to it weekly than buy a Microsoft or Apple product. But then, aren't all Linux users like that? It's not that bad. If you're building a dedicated workstation, and want to have as much of your system's resources as possible dedicated to audio, the only platform that you can truly do that with is Linux. You can boot straight to the GUI of your audio software, and don't need to run all the crap that Windows and Mac crowbar into the OS. A lot of people like to mess around with updates daily or weekly because it's a learning process for them and they have software that isn't finished. It's not necessary, though. If one wanted to build a machine that could, say, replace a multitrack device, you only need to do it once - if, and only if, your chosen software works. jb When will you have time to do any recording, or make any music? -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
#5
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"perso" wrote in message ... Hi I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? : Linux agnula You should talk to the people who use it or work on it to find out the viability there. Are you a programmer? Are you into synthesis? How familiar are you with Linux? I'm asking because you might be better off with something like Mandrake, and doing some customization. Ardour + It's being debugged in preparation for coming out of Beta. It's taking a long, long time. You shouldn't use Beta software for things you care about. Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall By all accounts the drivers are solid. Whatever you do, I'd strongly recommend NOT keeping your DAW on the internet, after you build it. Build it once and leave it alone. Make music. jb |
#6
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It really depends on how you're using it and how important your
recordings are. For personal stuff it's definitely usable; sound quality and usability of the tools are no issue. However personally I'm not (yet) trusting it for live recording of paying clients. If you have a recoverable crash in a home recording situation, nothing is lost; of you have one during recording a live concert, you lose the concert. In my current setup, I'm mostly using Linux for recording the final mixdown (which I do with a digital console), editing it and burning it to CD, but not yet for realtime critical stuff. Bit by bit things are getting more and more usable, and I do think you can get quite far with just Linux. It's definitely not the easiest way, but a bit of persistence goes a long way. I've had ardour crashing on me more than once but that might be related to my unstable jackd setup back then. GNU wavecleaner does the trick of denoising (always make a backup of your original before denoising, cause gwc is unstable as hell but it does its work well otherwise). For normalizing etc I use rezound and audacity, so personally I don't really have a big need for using ardour. If I want to do any composing, my tools of choice are usually soundtracker, or if I need something a bit more pro I use rosegarden for a sequencer and fluidsynth/zynaddsubfx as softsynths (and aeolus if I need a realistic sounding pipe organ). Best of luck and keep us posted! |
#7
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Linux?
Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. How do I know? I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. And before the Linux loonatics crawl out of mix, I use Linux for my webserver and all my day to day operations and for that, Linux is preferred over Windows in my opinion. As for programs, your biggest problem is going to be QUALITY plugins. There are many plugins that come with say Ardour (a decent program) but they can't match the quality of even the most basic Windows/Mac plugin in general. Ardour is highly unstable and has an interface that reminds me of Logic 1.0. Terrible! Audacity is not a bad program, but it is no SoundForge. If I were you, and I am assuming you are on a budget (why else would anyone consider Linux for professional audio?) I would try N-Tracks and scour the net for free plugins, many of which are very good. If you are not on a budget, Sony was recently running a special on SoungForge 8.0 for $99.00 and nothing Linux has can come close. However, if your time is not worth anything and you don't mind losing clients or at least having them laugh at you, try dynabolic for a decent audio based distribution. It will allow you to try things before hosing your entire system by installing Linux. http://lab.dyne.org/DyneBolic You might also want to look up a person who calls himself "flatfish" and resides in the Linux discussion groups. One final note, the Linux quacks will come out of the woodwork telling you how great Linux is and for many applications that is true. However digital audio studio work is NOT one of them and also understand most of them are programmers not musicians so their view on this is tilted that way. They will also tell you how major Hollywood production houses, ie:Pixar, have moved to Linux which is also true. Ask them when you can purchase Pixar's grown in house software and also what on earth does that have to do with a project studio? Good luck Marko perso ha escrito: Hi I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? : Linux agnula Ardour + Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall soundcraft... Fostex D 80 etc... regards |
#8
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 13:36:58 -0700, Marko Shindler wrote:
Linux? Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Depends. Maybe I'd like to do both. It has been known. Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. No it isn't. It's pretty sophisticated. Probably too sophisticted for someone like you. How do I know? You don't. I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. And before the Linux loonatics crawl out of mix, I use Linux for my webserver and all my day to day operations and for that, Linux is preferred over Windows in my opinion. I don't believe you. As for programs, your biggest problem is going to be QUALITY plugins. There are many plugins that come with say Ardour (a decent program) but they can't match the quality of even the most basic Windows/Mac plugin in general. Nonsense. Ardour is highly unstable and has an interface that reminds me of Logic 1.0. Terrible! Then use something else. Audacity is not a bad program, but it is no SoundForge. Why should it be? If I were you, and I am assuming you are on a budget (why else would anyone consider Linux for professional audio?) They are interested in controlling all aspects of their music. And why do you suppose musicians aren't on a budget? I would try N-Tracks and scour the net for free plugins, many of which are very good. If you are not on a budget, Sony was recently running a special on SoungForge 8.0 for $99.00 and nothing Linux has can come close. Yeah right. Liar. However, if your time is not worth anything and you don't mind losing clients or at least having them laugh at you, try dynabolic for a decent audio based distribution. Why are you lying? It will allow you to try things before hosing your entire system by installing Linux. No one will hose their system installing Linux, unless they're very careless or stupid. But Dyne:bolic is certainly a great place to start trying out Linux multimedia. http://lab.dyne.org/DyneBolic You might also want to look up a person who calls himself "flatfish" and resides in the Linux discussion groups. Why? Flatfish is a serial nymshifter and liar. His opinions are worthless. One final note, the Linux quacks will come out of the woodwork telling you how great Linux is and for many applications that is true. However digital audio studio work is NOT one of them and also understand most of them are programmers not musicians so their view on this is tilted that way. They will also tell you how major Hollywood production houses, ie:Pixar, have moved to Linux which is also true. Ask them when you can purchase Pixar's grown in house software and also what on earth does that have to do with a project studio? Linux has a lot of very interesting and creative software for audio creation. Some of it kind of technical. If you don't care for that, fine, but don't slag it because you don't understand it. Others do. (fup2COLA) -- Kier |
#9
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kleinebre a écrit :
It really depends on how you're using it and how important your recordings are. For personal stuff it's definitely usable; sound quality and usability of the tools are no issue. However personally I'm not (yet) trusting it for live recording of paying clients. If you have a recoverable crash in a home recording situation, nothing is lost; of you have one during recording a live concert, you lose the concert. In my current setup, I'm mostly using Linux for recording the final mixdown (which I do with a digital console), editing it and burning it to CD, but not yet for realtime critical stuff. Bit by bit things are getting more and more usable, and I do think you can get quite far with just Linux. It's definitely not the easiest way, but a bit of persistence goes a long way. I've had ardour crashing on me more than once but that might be related to my unstable jackd setup back then. GNU wavecleaner does the trick of denoising (always make a backup of your original before denoising, cause gwc is unstable as hell but it does its work well otherwise). For normalizing etc I use rezound and audacity, so personally I don't really have a big need for using ardour. If I want to do any composing, my tools of choice are usually soundtracker, or if I need something a bit more pro I use rosegarden for a sequencer and fluidsynth/zynaddsubfx as softsynths (and aeolus if I need a realistic sounding pipe organ). Best of luck and keep us posted! thanks |
#10
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reddred a écrit :
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1117293005k@trad... In article writes: I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? Only for the serious Linux fanatic who'd rather build his own operating system from a kit and keep adding to it weekly than buy a Microsoft or Apple product. But then, aren't all Linux users like that? It's not that bad. If you're building a dedicated workstation, and want to have as much of your system's resources as possible dedicated to audio, the only platform that you can truly do that with is Linux. You can boot straight to the GUI of your audio software, and don't need to run all the crap that Windows and Mac crowbar into the OS. A lot of people like to mess around with updates daily or weekly because it's a learning process for them and they have software that isn't finished. It's not necessary, though. If one wanted to build a machine that could, say, replace a multitrack device, you only need to do it once - if, and only if, your chosen software works. jb When will you have time to do any recording, or make any music? -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo ok |
#11
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reddred a écrit :
"perso" wrote in message ... Hi I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? : Linux agnula You should talk to the people who use it or work on it to find out the viability there. Are you a programmer? Are you into synthesis? How familiar are you with Linux? I'm asking because you might be better off with something like Mandrake, and doing some customization. Ardour + It's being debugged in preparation for coming out of Beta. It's taking a long, long time. You shouldn't use Beta software for things you care about. Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall By all accounts the drivers are solid. Whatever you do, I'd strongly recommend NOT keeping your DAW on the internet, after you build it. Build it once and leave it alone. Make music. understood thanks. jb mandrake... i'm french but i prefer debian... :-) |
#12
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They appear out of the woodwork like worms looking for a place to feed.
I'm convinced these Linux screwballs sit in waiting, just looking to defend Linux. Notice he hasn't said a word about your topic. Sadly, this is a typical Linux screwball who can't see anything but Linux and will lead unsuspecting noobs down the garden path in an attempt to get them to switch to Linux. These zealots unfortunately do much more harm than good. Marko Ku Karlovsky ha escrito: [rec.audio.pro and comp.os.linux.misc unfloundered] "Marko Shindler" wrote: Linux? Yes, Flatfish. Linux. |
#13
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Marko Shindler a écrit :
Linux? Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. How do I know? I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. And before the Linux loonatics crawl out of mix, I use Linux for my webserver and all my day to day operations and for that, Linux is preferred over Windows in my opinion. As for programs, your biggest problem is going to be QUALITY plugins. There are many plugins that come with say Ardour (a decent program) but they can't match the quality of even the most basic Windows/Mac plugin in general. Ardour is highly unstable and has an interface that reminds me of Logic 1.0. Terrible! Audacity is not a bad program, but it is no SoundForge. If I were you, and I am assuming you are on a budget (why else would anyone consider Linux for professional audio?) I would try N-Tracks and scour the net for free plugins, many of which are very good. not really: i have sonar, i 'm interested by Samplitude (good) I think Linux is an interesting OS. And Agnula a very good project Ardour is only a beta version 0.9beta29 so let's wait. interesting that's all ;-))) maybe Pro tools LE for live recordings and Linux Audio Agnula/Ardour for testing. If you are not on a budget, Sony was recently running a special on SoungForge 8.0 for $99.00 and nothing Linux has can come close. However, if your time is not worth anything and you don't mind losing clients or at least having them laugh at you, try dynabolic for a decent audio based distribution. [(i posted here but i'm not a professional. so i don't mind loosing clients because i'm a jurist not a sound engineer ))) it will be for semi pro applications and recordings, not professional. i don't care about pro tools TDM... even it's my favorite soft+hardware... ] Good luck Marko thanks |
#14
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And here we have another Linux screwball who obviously has never used
any type of professional digital audio programs, but yet feels the need to jump in and make baseless accusations without ever providing any source for his information. This is also typical of the Linux screwball. See what I mean about Linux? If you went to a Cubase group and asked about Sonar, you might get one or two zealots attacking you, but when you get involved with Linux, and tell it like it is, IOW in this case Linux is an extremely poor choice, the kooks will come out of the woodwork looking to save the good name of Linux. Just remember that since Linux isn't a company so to speak, these are the same people that you will be depending upon for support when the program fails to perform, which is typical. FWIW I got Ardour/Audacity/Jack working fine, I just didn't like the programs. They were unstable, had horrid plugins and awful interfaces. Marko Kier ha escrito: On Sat, 28 May 2005 13:36:58 -0700, Marko Shindler wrote: Linux? Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Depends. Maybe I'd like to do both. It has been known. Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. No it isn't. It's pretty sophisticated. Probably too sophisticted for someone like you. How do I know? You don't. I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. And before the Linux loonatics crawl out of mix, I use Linux for my webserver and all my day to day operations and for that, Linux is preferred over Windows in my opinion. I don't believe you. As for programs, your biggest problem is going to be QUALITY plugins. There are many plugins that come with say Ardour (a decent program) but they can't match the quality of even the most basic Windows/Mac plugin in general. Nonsense. Ardour is highly unstable and has an interface that reminds me of Logic 1.0. Terrible! Then use something else. Audacity is not a bad program, but it is no SoundForge. Why should it be? If I were you, and I am assuming you are on a budget (why else would anyone consider Linux for professional audio?) They are interested in controlling all aspects of their music. And why do you suppose musicians aren't on a budget? I would try N-Tracks and scour the net for free plugins, many of which are very good. If you are not on a budget, Sony was recently running a special on SoungForge 8.0 for $99.00 and nothing Linux has can come close. Yeah right. Liar. However, if your time is not worth anything and you don't mind losing clients or at least having them laugh at you, try dynabolic for a decent audio based distribution. Why are you lying? It will allow you to try things before hosing your entire system by installing Linux. No one will hose their system installing Linux, unless they're very careless or stupid. But Dyne:bolic is certainly a great place to start trying out Linux multimedia. http://lab.dyne.org/DyneBolic You might also want to look up a person who calls himself "flatfish" and resides in the Linux discussion groups. Why? Flatfish is a serial nymshifter and liar. His opinions are worthless. One final note, the Linux quacks will come out of the woodwork telling you how great Linux is and for many applications that is true. However digital audio studio work is NOT one of them and also understand most of them are programmers not musicians so their view on this is tilted that way. They will also tell you how major Hollywood production houses, ie:Pixar, have moved to Linux which is also true. Ask them when you can purchase Pixar's grown in house software and also what on earth does that have to do with a project studio? Linux has a lot of very interesting and creative software for audio creation. Some of it kind of technical. If you don't care for that, fine, but don't slag it because you don't understand it. Others do. (fup2COLA) -- Kier |
#15
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Marko Shindler a écrit :
And here we have another Linux screwball who obviously has never used any type of professional digital audio programs, but yet feels the need to jump in and make baseless accusations without ever providing any source for his information. This is also typical of the Linux screwball. See what I mean about Linux? If you went to a Cubase group and asked about Sonar, you might get one or two zealots attacking you 1 year ago I had at the same time Sonar + Cubase: very funny because no one could really attack me Linux was only an idea not MY only choice, gonna try Ardour but have a closer look to PT or Samplitude (don't know,... ) , but when you get involved with Linux, and tell it like it is, IOW in this case Linux is an extremely poor choice, the kooks will come out of the woodwork looking to save the good name of Linux. ok you hate linux understood. it was only a question, keep cool... Just remember that since Linux isn't a company so to speak, these are the same people that you will be depending upon for support when the program fails to perform, which is typical. FWIW I got Ardour/Audacity/Jack working fine, I just didn't like the programs. They were unstable, had horrid plugins and awful interfaces. Marko ;-) |
#16
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Mike Rivers wrote:
Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? Only for the serious Linux fanatic who'd rather build his own operating system from a kit and keep adding to it weekly than buy a Microsoft or Apple product. But then, aren't all Linux users like that? That reads very much like some kind of troll, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Whether Linux is the answer really depends on what you want, and what your priorities are. Linux has several advantages, and the obvious disadvantages that it currently expects a technical user rather than any old moron. What Linux will give you is a system that doesn't require activation or monthly subscription fees to keep it going (which is what Microsoft has been wanting to do for a long time). If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: 'You will plug me into the phone line NOW that I may commune with Microsoft. If you fail to comply, Windows will be destroyed. You have three earth days.' And what are you going to do when Microsoft turns off the activation server for XP? Preventing XP from being able to be installed ever again is a truly fantastic way to 'persuade' people to upgrade to Longhorn, or Blackcomb, or whatever the product of the day happens to be at that point. Your audio software might not even work on the new version, or it might be so full to the hilt with DRM that it just can't be used for audio work at all. One of Microsoft's grand ideas is to rework the OS so that only ..NET bytecode programs can be run, and thus kept safely in line through VM sandboxing. Legacy applications will run inside an x86 VM based on VirtualPC, which will let you run Doom or whatever, but the performance hit will totally destroy a softsynth or DAW. When will you have time to do any recording, or make any music? The same can often be said of Windows, unfortunately. However, you can customise the system to a far greater degree than Windows. If you DO go the torturous route of building the system up from scratch, you get to choose exactly what runs and when. You can at a stroke abolish the Windows bugbear of some obscure and hidden system process that decides to thrash the disk in the middle of a take, draining the audio buffer and causing dropouts. But you spoke only of Linux, Windows and the Mac. There is also a fourth alternative which you have not mentioned, and that is ReactOS. Sadly it is early days yet, but the promise is of a Windows-compatible OS without the Sword-Of-Damocles that is Windows Product Activation. It can be found he http://www.reactos.com I say again, it is early days. It won't even run on my hardware yet. But I eagerly await the day when it becomes feature-complete enough to run Sonar. Then I can rid myself of Windows once and for all. -- JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB---- uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976) |
#17
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J. P. Morris a écrit :
Mike Rivers wrote: Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? Only for the serious Linux fanatic who'd rather build his own operating system from a kit and keep adding to it weekly than buy a Microsoft or Apple product. But then, aren't all Linux users like that? That reads very much like some kind of troll, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Whether Linux is the answer really depends on what you want, and what your priorities are. Linux has several advantages, and the obvious disadvantages that it currently expects a technical user rather than any old moron. What Linux will give you is a system that doesn't require activation or monthly subscription fees to keep it going (which is what Microsoft has been wanting to do for a long time). If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: 'You will plug me into the phone line NOW that I may commune with Microsoft. If you fail to comply, Windows will be destroyed. You have three earth days.' And what are you going to do when Microsoft turns off the activation server for XP? Preventing XP from being able to be installed ever again is a truly fantastic way to 'persuade' people to upgrade to Longhorn, or Blackcomb, or whatever the product of the day happens to be at that point. Your audio software might not even work on the new version, or it might be so full to the hilt with DRM that it just can't be used for audio work at all. One of Microsoft's grand ideas is to rework the OS so that only .NET bytecode programs can be run, and thus kept safely in line through VM sandboxing. Legacy applications will run inside an x86 VM based on VirtualPC, which will let you run Doom or whatever, but the performance hit will totally destroy a softsynth or DAW. When will you have time to do any recording, or make any music? The same can often be said of Windows, unfortunately. However, you can customise the system to a far greater degree than Windows. If you DO go the torturous route of building the system up from scratch, you get to choose exactly what runs and when. You can at a stroke abolish the Windows bugbear of some obscure and hidden system process that decides to thrash the disk in the middle of a take, draining the audio buffer and causing dropouts. But you spoke only of Linux, Windows and the Mac. There is also a fourth alternative which you have not mentioned, and that is ReactOS. Sadly it is early days yet, but the promise is of a Windows-compatible OS without the Sword-Of-Damocles that is Windows Product Activation. It can be found he http://www.reactos.com I say again, it is early days. It won't even run on my hardware yet. But I eagerly await the day when it becomes feature-complete enough to run Sonar. Then I can rid myself of Windows once and for all. LOL (O)S tar) wars III started. "the Sword-Of-Damocles that is Windows Product Activation " ;-)) windows xp is the worst os never made... I have xp pro and 2000 pro, I prefer win2K no doubt ! |
#18
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J. P. Morris a écrit :
Then I can rid myself of Windows once and for all. serious decision. so, for a non professional project (sorry but i need profesionnals . of vue), (semi pro) may i try Samplitude + RME soundcards, or pro tools LE/digidesign systems .? regards/ |
#19
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"J. P. Morris" wrote ...
Whether Linux is the answer really depends on what you want, and what your priorities are. Linux has several advantages, and the obvious disadvantages that it currently expects a technical user rather than any old moron. And if you can't get it to work, you'll be relying on help from people who think you are a moron. Good luck with that. If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: No. You'll just need to find one that is still in production that has working Linux drivers. Good luck with that as well. |
#21
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perso ha escrito: not really: i have sonar, i 'm interested by Samplitude (good) Ok, I apologize for mis-understanding. If you use Sonar (I do!) and are interested in Samplitude (I use 7.x myself) you will not be interested in Linux because those programs are in a totally different league than ANY of the Linux offerings. I think Linux is an interesting OS. And Agnula a very good project Ardour is only a beta version 0.9beta29 so let's wait. interesting that's all ;-))) Interesting is fine, but if you are a musician your burning desire is to create music and Linux will hinder that big time. If you are interested in learning about computers, operating systems and learning Linux while at the same time tinkering with digital audio, then maybe Linux is a good choice for you. Only you know what your goals are. maybe Pro tools LE for live recordings and Linux Audio Agnula/Ardour for testing. That's essentially the way I approached it. I did a dual boot on my DAW workstation and shared a FAT32 drive between Suse 9.3 Linux and Windows. What I discovered was that Linux audio programs, while functional and certainly inexpensive enough, are WAY behind the curve of even the most basic Windows based program, like N-tracks for example. [(i posted here but i'm not a professional. so i don't mind loosing clients because i'm a jurist not a sound engineer ))) it will be for semi pro applications and recordings, not professional. i don't care about pro tools TDM... even it's my favorite soft+hardware... ] I don't use Protools either. Look, if you want to test try dynebolic because it is much more current, and better supported than agnula. BTW I don't hate Linux, like I said it runs my web server and I use it for all my other stuff. However, I tell it like it is and Linux is a disaster for a home studio unless your time means nothing and you have no money. Seeing as you already use Sonar, Linux will be a major step down. thanks You're welcome! Marko |
#22
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Richard Crowley ha escrito: "J. P. Morris" wrote ... Whether Linux is the answer really depends on what you want, and what your priorities are. Linux has several advantages, and the obvious disadvantages that it currently expects a technical user rather than any old moron. And if you can't get it to work, you'll be relying on help from people who think you are a moron. Good luck with that. Exactly and this thread is a prime example of that. Linux people as a whole are nasty, rabid zealots and I know this is a sweeping statement, but there is much evidence of it being so and my own experiences have proven it to me. They are as a group, programmers, not musicians and they look down upon anyone asking for help who doesn't have a degree in programming. The Linux community has a difficult time understanding the concept of the computer/operating system as a tool, or a means to an end. They prefer instead to tinker with the computer instead of using applications. It's kind of a weird Star Wars/Trekie type oddball that gravitates toward Linux. If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: No. You'll just need to find one that is still in production that has working Linux drivers. Good luck with that as well. RME is the best card for Linux. M-Audio is a close second. Other than that? You are out of luck. This is a classic example of how the Linux community at large will lie through their teeth to sucker in yet another convert. It's almost like the Hari Krishners for goodness sakes. Marko |
#23
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Richard Crowley ha escrito:
"J. P. Morris" wrote ... Whether Linux is the answer really depends on what you want, and what your priorities are. Linux has several advantages, and the obvious disadvantages that it currently expects a technical user rather than any old moron. And if you can't get it to work, you'll be relying on help from people who think you are a moron. Good luck with that. Exactly and this thread is a prime example of that. Linux people as a whole are nasty, rabid zealots and I know this is a sweeping statement, but there is much evidence of it being so and my own experiences have proven it to me. They are as a group, programmers, not musicians and they look down upon anyone asking for help who doesn't have a degree in programming. The Linux community has a difficult time understanding the concept of the computer/operating system as a tool, or a means to an end. They prefer instead to tinker with the computer instead of using applications. It's kind of a weird Star Wars/Trekie type oddball that gravitates toward Linux. If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: No. You'll just need to find one that is still in production that has working Linux drivers. Good luck with that as well. RME is the best card for Linux. M-Audio is a close second. Other than that? You are out of luck. This is a classic example of how the Linux community at large will lie through their teeth to sucker in yet another convert. It's almost like the Hari Krishners for goodness sakes. Marko |
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 13:36:58 -0700, Marko Shindler wrote:
Linux? Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. How do I know? I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. I dunno anything about sound processing, but I know there are similar problems with other categories of software. There is some discussion going on right now over at debianhelp.org about the failure of the open source movement to produce enough decent software. One recommended solution was that we start paying programming teams to come up with high-grade usable software that is released to the public domain. This makes sense - we will not attract and hold new users unless we start meeting their program needs and expectations. The last thing a newcomer wants to see is massively buggy programs or a console and command line programs. I would imagine that a quality music processing suite (as sophisticated as Open Office, Gimp or Mathematica) would go a long way to attracting new, young users. What do you folks think? |
#25
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On 2005-05-28, perso wrote:
I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? : Linux agnula Ardour + Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall soundcraft... Fostex D 80 etc... regards Hoping this is not another troll, If you have to ask, the answer is probably no. Unless you're patient, either knowledgeable or willing to learn, and above all willing to trade some functionality or convenience for the pleasure of running libre software on a libre OS. -- André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ (Counterfeit: ) What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the indifference of the many. -- M. L. King |
#26
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On 2005-05-28, Marko Shindler wrote:
Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. How do I know? I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. My experience with Unix in general and Linux in particular has been that it's a low-maintenance OS. Initially, getting things to work can be extremely difficult, but once it works, you can pretty much forget about it. What part of the system required endless "care and feeding" ? -- André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ (Counterfeit: ) What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the indifference of the many. -- M. L. King |
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 16:52:44 +0200, perso wrote:
Hi I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? I'd say the best thing to do is to install agnula, or a live distro like fervent, and give it a go. Even if you only have a bog standard pc and sound card right now, at least you will get a feel of the apps and how it works before committing yourself either way. I like many of the audio apps on Linux, and run a Linux pc in tandem with a dual boot Linux/Cubase win2k one. The Linux pc handles soft synths, heavy duty effects and some recording with Ardour. I would not record someone's album with Ardour, as I don't trust it yet. For my personal music, it's fine. It's best suited to use as a traditional multitrack, as it does not support midi (you can sync a sequencer like Rosegarden with it, but I find that awkward.) : Linux agnula Ardour + Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall soundcraft... Fostex D 80 etc... regards |
#28
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"Marko Shindler" wrote in message ups.com... stupid **** You crossposted this from rec.audio.pro to dumbass land? Gee, thanks. jb Do you want to create music or twiddle with your computer? Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other. If you are interested in low latency you will have to run Jack which is supposedly a low latency sound server that uses ALSA (one of the Linux sound systems) to interface with your audio hardware. The entire thing is one gigantic mess that requires endless care and feeding. How do I know? I tried to do the very same thing about a month ago and finally gave up because I found myself spending more time trying to make things work than creating music. And before the Linux loonatics crawl out of mix, I use Linux for my webserver and all my day to day operations and for that, Linux is preferred over Windows in my opinion. As for programs, your biggest problem is going to be QUALITY plugins. There are many plugins that come with say Ardour (a decent program) but they can't match the quality of even the most basic Windows/Mac plugin in general. Ardour is highly unstable and has an interface that reminds me of Logic 1.0. Terrible! Audacity is not a bad program, but it is no SoundForge. If I were you, and I am assuming you are on a budget (why else would anyone consider Linux for professional audio?) I would try N-Tracks and scour the net for free plugins, many of which are very good. If you are not on a budget, Sony was recently running a special on SoungForge 8.0 for $99.00 and nothing Linux has can come close. However, if your time is not worth anything and you don't mind losing clients or at least having them laugh at you, try dynabolic for a decent audio based distribution. It will allow you to try things before hosing your entire system by installing Linux. http://lab.dyne.org/DyneBolic You might also want to look up a person who calls himself "flatfish" and resides in the Linux discussion groups. One final note, the Linux quacks will come out of the woodwork telling you how great Linux is and for many applications that is true. However digital audio studio work is NOT one of them and also understand most of them are programmers not musicians so their view on this is tilted that way. They will also tell you how major Hollywood production houses, ie:Pixar, have moved to Linux which is also true. Ask them when you can purchase Pixar's grown in house software and also what on earth does that have to do with a project studio? Good luck Marko perso ha escrito: Hi I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? : Linux agnula Ardour + Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall soundcraft... Fostex D 80 etc... regards |
#29
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"perso" wrote in message ... Hi I'm actually thinking about a project of home studio, linux based. Do you think Ardour could be a serious choice for a personal but "serious" home studio ? Look at the feature set of Ardour, it's reliability and functionality. Also look at te audio subsystems of Linux and compatibility with the tools you may find you need. Is the main objective to "construct a project home studio" based on Linux, or to construct a real usable versatile PCDAW that really works ? geoff |
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"J. P. Morris" wrote in message news:4298e014$0$541 If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: 'You will plug me into the phone line NOW that I may commune with Microsoft. If you fail to comply, Windows will be destroyed. You have three earth days.' Jeepers, that must be for Liniots only. The rest of us get 30 days. And not from a trivial PCI card swap. geoff |
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#32
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 13:36:58 -0700, Marko Shindler wrote:
Linux currently has at least 5 different sound servers, none of which talk to each other Nice try Flatfish, but you know that this is incorrect, as are your other gripes. |
#33
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 23:34:21 +0000, Andre Majorel wrote:
snip My experience with Unix in general and Linux in particular has been that it's a low-maintenance OS. Initially, getting things to work can be extremely difficult, but once it works, you can pretty much forget about it. What part of the system required endless "care and feeding" ? His ego, it's name is Flatfish. |
#34
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 17:41:01 -0500, Andrew wrote:
I dunno anything about sound processing, but I know there are similar problems with other categories of software. There is some discussion going on right now over at debianhelp.org about the failure of the open source movement to produce enough decent software. One recommended solution was that we start paying programming teams to come up with high-grade usable software that is released to the public domain. This makes sense - we will not attract and hold new users unless we start meeting their program needs and expectations. The last thing a newcomer wants to see is massively buggy programs or a console and command line programs. I would imagine that a quality music processing suite (as sophisticated as Open Office, Gimp or Mathematica) would go a long way to attracting new, young users. What do you folks think? I like to mess about with sound, and have found that their are some great packages, I have found that getting sound out of linux box's is easy, but not when it comes to plugging in Midi keyboards. The problem I keep finding is that the sound card I have does not have good support (why manufactures don't realise drivers is beyond reason) and worse I use a distro SuSe that is configured so Alsa and Jack are not easy to build. I think the use of linux box's for music processing is slowly building and will rapidly improve, at the moment if you want to do music processing pick a distro that is geared up for it and a sound card with good support. Can anybody reccomend a card with linux drivers? Jem.. |
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Marko Shindler a écrit :
perso ha escrito: not really: i have sonar, i 'm interested by Samplitude (good) Ok, I apologize for mis-understanding. ;-))) if i could, even i'm a non professional, i'd have pro tools + sam + sonar + nuendo ;-) If you use Sonar (I do!) and are interested in Samplitude (I use 7.x myself) you will not be interested in Linux because those programs are in a totally different league than ANY of the Linux offerings. Interesting is fine, but if you are a musician your burning desire is to create music and Linux will hinder that big time. If you are interested in learning about computers, operating systems and learning Linux while at the same time tinkering with digital audio, then maybe Linux is a good choice for you. Only you know what your goals are. ;-) maybe Pro tools LE for live recordings and Linux Audio Agnula/Ardour for testing. That's essentially the way I approached it. I did a dual boot on my DAW workstation and shared a FAT32 drive between Suse 9.3 Linux and Windows. What I discovered was that Linux audio programs, while functional and certainly inexpensive enough, are WAY behind the curve of even the most basic Windows based program, like N-tracks for example. N-Tracks ? never tried. I don't use Protools either. Look, if you want to test try dynebolic because it is much more current, and better supported than agnula. thanks BTW I don't hate Linux, like I said it runs my web server and I use it for all my other stuff. However, I tell it like it is and Linux is a disaster for a home studio unless your time means nothing and you have no money. Seeing as you already use Sonar, Linux will be a major step down. ok as de gaulle said "Je vous ai compris" thanks You're welcome! Marko ;-) my project: sonar or sam (7/8 don't know) on computer 1 linux audio for testing on computer 2 (for fun if you prefer) |
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#37
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Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes: That reads very much like some kind of troll, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Likewise. And that's all I'll say in terms of a reply. I don't want to dignify this thread any further with comments about getting down to the business of recording music. Well said. If you don't like Microsoft, use Linux. If you're not smart enough to use Linux, get a good Ampex or Studer. Sometimes you just can't win. I hold off mentioning RTR (which is my preference) to avoid getting pegged as an analogue zealot, but wind up playing the Linux zealot instead. Sorry about that.. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB---- uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976) |
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Geoff Wood wrote:
"J. P. Morris" wrote in message news:4298e014$0$541 If one of your PCI cards flakes out and you have to replace it, Linux won't hold the system hostage like Windows has to me, e.g.: 'You will plug me into the phone line NOW that I may commune with Microsoft. If you fail to comply, Windows will be destroyed. You have three earth days.' Jeepers, that must be for Liniots only. The rest of us get 30 days. And not from a trivial PCI card swap. Try swapping two or three cards then. It does happen, and it is only three days. Thirty days for initial registration, three days for changing the hardware. Of course, none of this nonsense will happen with W2K. By the way, in case my post came off wrongly, which appears to be the case, I'd like to clarify it a little: * Windows has problems. You may find these to be acceptable to you. * Linux solves the licensing problems, but causes other problems. * For my purposes, Linux is not yet ready as an audio platform. (Although as you can see from the headers, I use it for everything else) * I should not have used the word 'moron'. People have inferred from this, wrongly, that I was calling all Windows users 'morons'. * People who dislike Windows but are tied to it should explore ReactOS as a possible alternative, since it should give the ability to deploy Windows-based audio software without fear of Microsoft pulling the version you need in future (as they are often wont to do). geoff -- JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB---- uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976) |
#39
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 14:16:30 -0700, Marko Shindler wrote:
And here we have another Linux screwball who obviously has never used any type of professional digital audio programs, but yet feels the need to jump in and make baseless accusations without ever providing any source for his information. Incorrect. I am not 'a Linux screwball'. I'm a Linux *user*. This is also typical of the Linux screwball. You're the only one whose behaviour is in any way 'typical', so far. Typical of a troll, that is. See what I mean about Linux? No. I don't. And nor will any other honest user. If you went to a Cubase group and asked about Sonar, you might get one or two zealots attacking you, but when you get involved with Linux, and tell it like it is, IOW in this case Linux is an extremely poor choice, the kooks will come out of the woodwork looking to save the good name of Linux. The good name of Linux is not in jeopardy, and we are not kooks. That's your biggest mistake. Sure, Linux isn't the most obvious platform for audio work, and you may need some technical expertise to get the best from it, but it still has huge potential. If you were really interested in finding out about what it can do, you'd be reading 'Linux User and Developer', which has been running an in-depth series of articles about Linux audio, not slagging it off here. Just remember that since Linux isn't a company so to speak, these are the same people that you will be depending upon for support when the program fails to perform, which is typical. No, it isn't typical. Again, you make statements which you cannot support. And no, Linux iteslf is not a company, but you can buy support for any regular distro, and the support of the community is also excellent, if you treat the community with respect. FWIW I got Ardour/Audacity/Jack working fine, I just didn't like the programs. They were unstable, had horrid plugins and awful interfaces. If you don't are for the programs, that's fine, no one is asking you to. Just don't lie about them. If you don't find the interfaces appealing, why not get in touch with the maintainers and suggest some improvements? That's how the Linux community works. If you got the apps working fine, why are you complaining? You may be a genuine poster, but your atitude, and the use fo such epithets as 'Linux kook', 'Linux screwball', makes that doubtful. If you have honest criticisms to make, please use less inflammatory language, and you may be better received. I don't think Linux audio is perfect, or a slot-in replacement for the apps you may be used to, but it has many plus points, if you're willing to put in some effort. You can design your own music creation tools, for a start, tailored to your own personal needs. That's got to be a good thing, right? You can have total control over your music making. And please don't top-post, it makes replying to you unnecessarily difficult. -- Kier |
#40
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In article .com,
Marko Shindler wrote: They appear out of the woodwork like worms looking for a place to feed. I'm convinced these Linux screwballs sit in waiting, just looking to defend Linux. Well, you are crossposting this thread to comp.os.unix.advocacy, where indeed defending Linux is the whole purpose of the group. Personally, I don't like computers very much and I think if you want to have a home studio that you should look into an 8-track Ampex machine. But that's a personal bias. Maybe we should start a rec.audio.pro.ampex.advocacy. Notice he hasn't said a word about your topic. Sadly, this is a typical Linux screwball who can't see anything but Linux and will lead unsuspecting noobs down the garden path in an attempt to get them to switch to Linux. May I suggest looking at the Newsgroups: line before replying? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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