Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Hi,
Quick question. I have a Panasonic Amp - average one, 45W RMS (6ohm) per channel. I want to connect 4 speakers to it ..... the four - 2 6 ohm speakers have 170W maximum input power, and 2 4 ohm with 70W max. input power. Theyre all the same style, just designed for a home theater - slightly different application here! Basically, the four are going to be playing music very softly - people are coming over and so just to have some nice soothing background music, that wont hinder people's conversations. Is this safe for the amp? I had thought it would - especially considering the very low volume needed (and the fact that no one can accidentally turn the volume up). Appreciate any help - thanks, Andrew |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote ...
Quick question. I have a Panasonic Amp - average one, 45W RMS (6ohm) per channel. I want to connect 4 speakers to it ..... the four - 2 6 ohm speakers have 170W maximum input power, and 2 4 ohm with 70W max. input power. Theyre all the same style, just designed for a home theater - slightly different application here! Basically, the four are going to be playing music very softly - people are coming over and so just to have some nice soothing background music, that wont hinder people's conversations. Is this safe for the amp? I had thought it would - especially considering the very low volume needed (and the fact that no one can accidentally turn the volume up). The "power ratings" of the speakers are of no consequence for your question (or any other, for that matter). The basic question is what is the LOWEST impedance which your amplifier is rated for? You say that it is rated for 45W @ 6-ohms. Is 6-ohms the minimum impedance? Connecting a lower impedance to the amplifier than its ratings could stress it to the point of burning out several critical (and expensive) parts. One could argue that if you are running low "background music" levels, you could possibly get away with it. But that reminds me of the people who keep their goldfish in a blender plugged into the mains power. One slip away from disaster. If you are running low-level background music, you don't really need the full power output of the amplifier. So the safest way would be to connect one of the 6-ohm speakers *in series* with one of the 4-ohm on each channel of the amplifier. This will present a 10-ohm load on each side of the amp. You won't get the full 45 watts, but in your application, it doesn't matter and everyone will be cool. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Richard,
Thanks heaps for your reply. Checking the book, it says: "80 Hz, both channels driven. (Low channel) 115W per channel (6ohm)" "1kHz, both channels driven. (High channel) 45W per channel (6ohm)". Total Bi-Amp Power 160W per channel...................... When I did a quick test last night, I actually connected two of the speakers both into one amp output, and the other two to the other two(in parallel). So in essence, say the first two speakers - one 6ohm and one 4ohm....therefore connecting both to the one output would reduce the impedance to 5ohm - is this correct? And looking at what I have just read, I shouldnt let the impedance drop under 6 should I? So this is why you say to connect two in series to one output, and the other two to the other? Thanks - sorry if the question sounds newbie, I am learning more and more about speaker and amp setups! Cheers, Andrew Richard Crowley wrote: "andrew_h" wrote ... Quick question. I have a Panasonic Amp - average one, 45W RMS (6ohm) per channel. I want to connect 4 speakers to it ..... the four - 2 6 ohm speakers have 170W maximum input power, and 2 4 ohm with 70W max. input power. Theyre all the same style, just designed for a home theater - slightly different application here! Basically, the four are going to be playing music very softly - people are coming over and so just to have some nice soothing background music, that wont hinder people's conversations. Is this safe for the amp? I had thought it would - especially considering the very low volume needed (and the fact that no one can accidentally turn the volume up). The "power ratings" of the speakers are of no consequence for your question (or any other, for that matter). The basic question is what is the LOWEST impedance which your amplifier is rated for? You say that it is rated for 45W @ 6-ohms. Is 6-ohms the minimum impedance? Connecting a lower impedance to the amplifier than its ratings could stress it to the point of burning out several critical (and expensive) parts. One could argue that if you are running low "background music" levels, you could possibly get away with it. But that reminds me of the people who keep their goldfish in a blender plugged into the mains power. One slip away from disaster. If you are running low-level background music, you don't really need the full power output of the amplifier. So the safest way would be to connect one of the 6-ohm speakers *in series* with one of the 4-ohm on each channel of the amplifier. This will present a 10-ohm load on each side of the amp. You won't get the full 45 watts, but in your application, it doesn't matter and everyone will be cool. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
andrew_h wrote:
Richard, Thanks heaps for your reply. Checking the book, it says: "80 Hz, both channels driven. (Low channel) 115W per channel (6ohm)" "1kHz, both channels driven. (High channel) 45W per channel (6ohm)". Total Bi-Amp Power 160W per channel...................... When I did a quick test last night, I actually connected two of the speakers both into one amp output, and the other two to the other two(in parallel). So in essence, say the first two speakers - one 6ohm and one 4ohm....therefore connecting both to the one output would reduce the impedance to 5ohm - is this correct? No. A 4 ohm speaker in parallel with a 6 ohm speaker is 2.4 ohms. And looking at what I have just read, I shouldnt let the impedance drop under 6 should I? Probably not. So this is why you say to connect two in series to one output, and the other two to the other? Yes, that will result in a 10 ohm load. // Walt // |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote ...
Richard, Thanks heaps for your reply. Checking the book, it says: "80 Hz, both channels driven. (Low channel) 115W per channel (6ohm)" "1kHz, both channels driven. (High channel) 45W per channel (6ohm)". Total Bi-Amp Power 160W per channel...................... This is some sort of bi-amp setup? Does that mean that there are NO full-range outputs? (If you have only "Low channel" and "High chanel" outputs?) That seems like a problem with what you are attempting to do. When I did a quick test last night, I actually connected two of the speakers both into one amp output, and the other two to the other two(in parallel). So in essence, say the first two speakers - one 6ohm and one 4ohm....therefore connecting both to the one output would reduce the impedance to 5ohm - is this correct? As "Walt" has already calculated for us, the impedance is more like 2.4 ohms. And looking at what I have just read, I shouldnt let the impedance drop under 6 should I? It becomes more problematic the lower it goes. I would definitely NOT feel comfortable with a 2.4 ohm load on such an amplifier. Too close to the edge for my tastes. So this is why you say to connect two in series to one output, and the other two to the other? Definitely. And make sure to get one 6-ohm and one 4-ohm in series on each side to keep the load balanced. NOT both 6-ohm speakers on one side and both 4-ohm speakers on the other side. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Forgive my newbieness....
Bl W R Bla - Bl= blue, W= white, R= red, Bla=black [x][x][o][o] [x][x][o][o] Speaker outputs The first two outputs (x's) are for 'high-channel' output (6 ohm), and the other two (o's) are for 'low-channel' output (6 ohm). Looking at the manual - for each supplied panasonic speaker, one speaker lead connects into box X's (is split at the end into two), and the other into both O's (from the one speaker). Then with the other speaker, the same thing into the other two lots. Is this a problem ? Could I just use the 'high-channel' outputs, as the music that will be playing (i.e. flute music etc), will not have much bass and low frequencies?? |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote ...
Forgive my newbieness.... Bl W R Bla - Bl= blue, W= white, R= red, Bla=black [x][x][o][o] [x][x][o][o] Speaker outputs The first two outputs (x's) are for 'high-channel' output (6 ohm), and the other two (o's) are for 'low-channel' output (6 ohm). Looking at the manual - for each supplied panasonic speaker, one speaker lead connects into box X's (is split at the end into two), and the other into both O's (from the one speaker). Then with the other speaker, the same thing into the other two lots. Is this a problem ? Could I just use the 'high-channel' outputs, as the music that will be playing (i.e. flute music etc), will not have much bass and low frequencies?? I'm completely baffled what this even is? Can you describe it more completely? Does it have a name, model number? Where did it come from? What was it used for before you got it? It does NOT sound anything like a conventional amplifier, at least to me. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
haha...
Panasonic SA-AK44 stereo. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Sorry..
Panasonic SA-AK44 5 cd/radio stereo system. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
On 22 Feb 2006 23:55:47 -0800, "andrew_h"
wrote: haha... Panasonic SA-AK44 stereo. It's a boom box! From the manual (http://www.usersmanualguide.com/pana...system/sa-ak44 there is a caution: "Use only the supplied speakers........... Using other speakers can damage the unit......." I wouldn't doubt it. Kal |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote ...
Panasonic SA-AK44 5 cd/radio stereo system. I have no idea what "high-channel" and "low-channel" mean in this context. Anybody else got a clue? From the photo in a listing on ebay in GB, it appears to be a plastic "boom box" with two "semi-detached" speakers. Is this what you've got? What happens if you just connect one of your speakers to each of the outputs? You have four outputs and four speakers, right? |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Richard Crowley wrote:
"andrew_h" wrote ... Panasonic SA-AK44 5 cd/radio stereo system. I have no idea what "high-channel" and "low-channel" mean in this context. Anybody else got a clue? Might be bi-amped, but I doubt it - never heard of a bi-amped boom box. Perhaps some sort of equalized output to compensate for cheesy speakers? From the photo in a listing on ebay in GB, it appears to be a plastic "boom box" with two "semi-detached" speakers. Is this what you've got? What happens if you just connect one of your speakers to each of the outputs? You have four outputs and four speakers, right? That sounds like a pretty good place to start. I doubt it'll break anything, but there's no way to know for sure given the available information. ///Walt |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Richard Crowley wrote:
"andrew_h" wrote ... Panasonic SA-AK44 5 cd/radio stereo system. I have no idea what "high-channel" and "low-channel" mean in this context. Anybody else got a clue? From the photo in a listing on ebay in GB, it appears to be a plastic "boom box" with two "semi-detached" speakers. Is this what you've got? What happens if you just connect one of your speakers to each of the outputs? You have four outputs and four speakers, right? The panasonic Sc-Ak 44 (if my memory is ok) is a bi-wired dual amp mini-stereo. Each speaker include a Super-Woofer???, 1 Tweeter and 1 mid-bass driver. The High-Channel go to the tweeter and mid-bass and the low-Channel go to the Super-Woofer. So correct me if I am wrong but if you want to connect a different speaker to the SC-AK 44, the low channel will go to your woofer and the High-Channel will go to the Mid/High frequency driver (you must use a x-over if you do not want to blow your tweeter) Hope this help. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote in message
oups.com Yeh - it is more than just a 'boom box'. From memory I paid just under $400 Aus. Actually the speakers are very good - J.Major was spot on - 'super-woofer, tweeter, and mid' drivers on each, and they ARE bi-wired. The amp has two high-channel outputs, and two low-channel outputs. Actually, they are bi-amped. Basically, I am finding it a bit hard to 'join' the high and low channel outputs and then run them to the speakers. Good way to blow power amps up. The four speakers I'm wanting to use are Panasonic (long thin ones), the sound is very good. As people have suggested, I have wired 2 in series (as the L channel), and the other 2 in series (as R). I tried making a Y connector out out speaker cable ... the top left of the Y going to the +ve of the high-channel, the top right of the Y going into the +ve of the low-channel, and then the bottom of the Y connecting to the +ve of the first speaker. Same with the -ve's of one side. This doesnt seem to work though - I cant see why?! This is a system with components that are designed to work together and no other way. Changing out significantly different components would take some serious engineering. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
On 23 Feb 2006 14:45:27 -0800, "andrew_h"
wrote: Yeh - it is more than just a 'boom box'. From memory I paid just under $400 Aus. Expensive boom box. Actually the speakers are very good - J.Major was spot on - 'super-woofer, tweeter, and mid' drivers on each, and they ARE bi-wired. The amp has two high-channel outputs, and two low-channel outputs. Doesn't make it very good, just excessively complex. Basically, I am finding it a bit hard to 'join' the high and low channel outputs and then run them to the speakers. The four speakers I'm wanting to use are Panasonic (long thin ones), the sound is very good. As people have suggested, I have wired 2 in series (as the L channel), and the other 2 in series (as R). I tried making a Y connector out out speaker cable ... the top left of the Y going to the +ve of the high-channel, the top right of the Y going into the +ve of the low-channel, and then the bottom of the Y connecting to the +ve of the first speaker. Same with the -ve's of one side. This doesnt seem to work though - I cant see why?! Anyone know how I could join these? Joining the outputs of two amps is a good way to blow the amps. Only if you are willing to chance destroying the unit in your attempt should you bother. Kal |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
I am not 'changing out components' apart from changing the speakers!!!
If the highs come from the high-channel, and the lows from the low-channel, it must be possible to join the two outputs so that all the frequencies run down the one speaker cable to the speaker, which could handle both low and high. The idea of the "Y" was so that the +ve of the high and the +ve of the low both go to the +ve of the speaker ..... not into themselves. Therefore as I see it, I would think the frequencies would just both travel down the one speaker wire to the speaker. Correct??? |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
I meant if the low bass frequencies from the low, and the mids up come
from the high! |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
I tuned in late, but are you talking about tying together two speaker
outputs to a single speaker? Don't do it. A speaker output is a high-power device. Each speaker output is trying to control the voltage on the speaker. If you tie 2 outputs together, and at some moment one of the outputs is trying to put -1 volt on the speaker at the same time the other one is trying to put +3 volts on the speaker (and remember, we're talking about instants in the progress of a sound wave), then the outputs will burn each other out. Unlike sounds themselves, electronic signals representing sounds can't be added together by just feeding them to the same place. I'm not sure what kind of Y connector you have in mind, but it is not possible (with wires) to connect A to C and connect B to C without also connecting A to B. (Assuming you want something that will pass an audio signal. It can be done with diodes for DC only.) "andrew_h" wrote in message oups.com... I am not 'changing out components' apart from changing the speakers!!! If the highs come from the high-channel, and the lows from the low-channel, it must be possible to join the two outputs so that all the frequencies run down the one speaker cable to the speaker, which could handle both low and high. The idea of the "Y" was so that the +ve of the high and the +ve of the low both go to the +ve of the speaker .... not into themselves. Therefore as I see it, I would think the frequencies would just both travel down the one speaker wire to the speaker. Correct??? |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote in message
oups.com Yeh I was just thinking about using diodes. Diodes are incredibly nonlinear and muck up the sound when put into speaker lines. Look buddy, you've been told by three different people that this is a bad idea. Kal in particular has a long track record of accurate posts around here. Maybe you should step back, take a deep breath and stop wasting good people's time with mission impossible? After all you can get a good 100 wpc stereo receiver for like $100 if you want to start using regular speakers. |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
I understand exactly what you are saying.
The main, 100% reason for posting and pushing to try and find a solution was because I was having the dinner this weekend and so wanted to try and fix something up so it'd work well - even a make-shift solution just for this weekend. The speakers in series connect fine to the high-channel output ... again this sounds fine, especially for the music I plan to play, so I think my only option will be to forget about the low-channel output ... and have no bass at all. Contrary to what people say about the unit being an expensive "boom box", it actually sounds very good - I understand the market they are aiming for with the product, namely trying to cover both amatuer listeners (who just want sound from cds etc) and also to edge into more serious music listeners. Personally I think the bi-amp outputs is - maybe marketing hype - but to appeal to that more serious group. But it is by no means a crappy unit. To the average 'music listener', it sounds great. |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote in message
ups.com The main, 100% reason for posting and pushing to try and find a solution was because I was having the dinner this weekend and so wanted to try and fix something up so it'd work well - even a make-shift solution just for this weekend. The problem is that in its way this may be a sophisticated unit. One problem with sophistication is that it can tend to make things good only for one thing - the exact job they are made to perform. The speakers in series connect fine to the high-channel output ... again this sounds fine, especially for the music I plan to play, so I think my only option will be to forget about the low-channel output ... and have no bass at all. Are the bass speakers broken or are you talking about the fact that mini systems tend to be light on bass? Contrary to what people say about the unit being an expensive "boom box", it actually sounds very good - I understand the market they are aiming for with the product, namely trying to cover both amatuer listeners (who just want sound from cds etc) and also to edge into more serious music listeners. Personally I think the bi-amp outputs is - maybe marketing hype - but to appeal to that more serious group. But it is by no means a crappy unit. To the average 'music listener', it sounds great. FWIW biamping is also used on a lot of *professional* studio monitors. It can solve a number of inherent problems with speakers and amplfiers if done right. Thing is, the more you optimize somehting to do a certain job, the less likely it is to be general-purpose. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote ...
I am not 'changing out components' apart from changing the speakers!!! If the highs come from the high-channel, and the lows from the low-channel, it must be possible to join the two outputs so that all the frequencies run down the one speaker cable to the speaker, which could handle both low and high. The idea of the "Y" was so that the +ve of the high and the +ve of the low both go to the +ve of the speaker .... not into themselves. Therefore as I see it, I would think the frequencies would just both travel down the one speaker wire to the speaker. Correct??? NO! You seem to have a "bi-amped" system where the audio is split low/high internally and then amplified through two different amplifiers for each channel (total four amplifiers). There is no practical and effective way to "re-combine" these low/high signals back into a speaker-level, full-range signal. Your equipment is NOT suitable for what you are asking to do. If you had a more conventional boom-box (one with two wires to each speaker), you COULD do what you are seeking. But NOT with the equipment you have. |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
NO! You seem to have a "bi-amped" system where the audio is split low/high internally and then amplified through two different amplifiers for each channel (total four amplifiers). There is no practical and effective way to "re-combine" these low/high signals back into a speaker-level, full-range signal. Your equipment is NOT suitable for what you are asking to do. Agreed. If you had a more conventional boom-box (one with two wires to each speaker), you COULD do what you are seeking. But NOT with the equipment you have. In this day of ca. $1.98 high-performance DSP chips it is becoming more and more common for the electronics in all-in-one systems to be carefully tuned to the speakers that come with them. This means that changing out a speaker in an all-in-1 system to a *better* one could: (1) Not improve things (2) Actually make things worse |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
In this day of ca. $1.98 high-performance DSP chips it is becoming more and more common for the electronics in all-in-one systems to be carefully tuned to the speakers that come with them. This means that changing out a speaker in an all-in-1 system to a *better* one could: (1) Not improve things (2) Actually make things worse Agreed. But the application is a temporary, low-level background music source. Lighten up. :-) |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote ... In this day of ca. $1.98 high-performance DSP chips it is becoming more and more common for the electronics in all-in-one systems to be carefully tuned to the speakers that come with them. This means that changing out a speaker in an all-in-1 system to a *better* one could: (1) Not improve things (2) Actually make things worse Agreed. But the application is a temporary, low-level background music source. Lighten up. :-) Hey, I'm serious about my background music - I wear earplugs in elevators to avoid damage due to bad Muzak! ;-) |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote in message oups.com... Yeh I was just thinking about using diodes. I.e. Think of my Y connector. No. The signals to the speaker are alternating current. Diodes would produce terrible distortion. |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
It's interesting to analyze what confused you here...
I think basically you were not sufficiently aware of the difference between sound and electricity. There is nothing wrong with putting two sources of *sound* right next to each other and having them both put their sound into the air in almost the same place. Speakers next to each other, outputting different sounds, do not particularly affect each other. But it doesn't work that way with electricity. The electricity coming out of a speaker output is not sound. It won't be sound until the speaker cone vibrates. It is a voltage, changing very rapidly, that corresponds to the intended position of the speaker cone. And if you tie two different speaker outputs together, instant-by-instant they are not outputting the same voltage. Current will always flow from the higher voltage into the lower one. Accordingly, current will almost always be flowing from one of the outputs into the other one, burning out the amplifier. Because they are alternating voltages (swinging from maybe +10 to -10 volts), diodes don't help. |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote in message oups.com... I am not 'changing out components' apart from changing the speakers!!! If the highs come from the high-channel, and the lows from the low-channel, it must be possible to join the two outputs so that all the frequencies run down the one speaker cable to the speaker, which could handle both low and high. This is a bad idea. Best case, it won't work very well since there are separate amplifiers for the highs and the lows. Otherwise, the original speakers wouldn't be wired like they are. Worst case, you'll blow the amplifier circuits. The idea of the "Y" was so that the +ve of the high and the +ve of the low both go to the +ve of the speaker .... not into themselves. Therefore as I see it, I would think the frequencies would just both travel down the one speaker wire to the speaker. Correct??? You're not an electrical engineer are you? Jeff -- Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
Haha no I'm not ... but I'm learning alot day by day!
|
#30
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
can these speakers connect to this amp?
"andrew_h" wrote in message
oups.com... Haha no I'm not ... but I'm learning alot day by day! Glad to be of service. I hope you don't mind that, as a teacher, I'm interested in analyzing what misled you. And I just thought of another aspect of it. You may have thought that the + and - terminals of the speaker outputs were, respectively, always positive and always negative. If that were so, the output would be a (varying) dc voltage and, although it still wouldn't actually work as proposed, your idea about how to add them would make some sense. In reality, the + and - on speaker connections are arbitrary. The voltage actually swings both ways. The + and - serve to get all the speakers "in phase," i.e., their cones all going in or out in unison, rather than some speakers going in while others go out. When the audio signal is a 1000-Hz tone, the output is an AC sine wave, with the + positive and the - negative for 1/2000 of a second, then the other way around for 1/2000 of a second, over and over. You can see how two slightly different signals of this general type wouldn't mix by just connecting them together. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
BOSE speaker help needed please | General | |||
BOSE speaker help needed please | Pro Audio | |||
A Few Thoughts on Bose | Audio Opinions | |||
rec.audio.car FAQ (Part 4/5) | Car Audio | |||
Why the non-kulturny turneroid builds zero-culture speakers | Vacuum Tubes |