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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
With the survivalist market as well as the DIYers who would build a
kit I have given thought to the idea of building a new tube shortwave receiver as a usable, practical set. That means no regens, no DC bull****, and no plug in coils. It must have production grade RF and IF coils, a bandswitch, and require alignment. If sold as a kit the builder will need a RF generator and a scope (or a spec an or CSM with a track gen). It should use off the shelf parts even if those shelves are bare, as it is better to copy an existing item than design from scratch. I would clone the Eddystone dial mechanism and the bandswitch and coils from some Hallicrafters or Hammarlund set, they could be sold as desperately needed replacement spares for the old sets too. I would use a seeing eye tube mounted in a hole in the dial as opposed to a meter movement, again, getting a run of new tubes made is possible if you are buying several thousand. There are some surplus that could be used if really needed too. I would use a separate power supply and speaker for several reasons. I would have the radio take in B+ and heater voltage and put out 600 ohm +4 audio. A regular supply could be used at home or car battery and a switchmode brick for B+. A headphone jack would be supplied off this tube. The set should cover 500 kHz to 30 MHz, AM, SSB and CW, with a product detector of course. A 455 kHz IF is needed so as to use common mechanical or crystal filters, which are optional. There should also be a 455 kHz IF out for an external synchronous detector. Any other comments? |
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#2
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
My guess is that the cost you would have to charge to recoup the time
and effort you put together in coming up with such a design would end up making such a set *much* more expensive than just going to a ham fest, buying a Hammarlund in good shape, and fixing it up. Or even paying someone else to fix it up. |
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#3
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 11, 12:04*am, David Barts
wrote: My guess is that the cost you would have to charge to recoup the time and effort you put together in coming up with such a design would end up making such a set *much* more expensive than just going to a ham fest, buying a Hammarlund in good shape, and fixing it up. Or even paying someone else to fix it up. I already have a R-390, two Hammarlunds and a Racal....I wanted to manufacture something. Or at least think about it. |
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#4
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 11, 4:52*pm, wrote:
*With the survivalist market as well as the DIYers who would build a kit I have given thought to the idea of building a new tube shortwave receiver as a usable, practical set. Most people who are into radio might think you are irrational, because good short wave reception with tubes has been done by major manufacturers of the past rather better than you can ever imagine to achieve, unless you have far greater intelligence than their leading chief designers wo passed lots of exams and universities and had passed the test of being jolly good fellows in the real world of private enterprise employment and marketing activities with the now mentioned Racal, and Hammlund, Hallicrafters et all, just to name a few. *That means no regens, no DC bull****, Regenerative boost I can understand, but "DC bull****" Such a term does not appear in any electronic books written prior to 1960 when tubed radio was regarded as the best mature technology for SW reception. and no plug in coils. It must have production grade RF and IF coils, a bandswitch, and require alignment. If sold as a kit the builder will need a RF generator and a scope (or a spec an or CSM with a track gen). You must be dreamin'. Its not clear at all what you want. Do you wanna make a radio from scratch, or do ya wanna buy a kit made by some sucker who is likely to find he'll sell 2 kits over 10 years, and get a lousy price from YOU? If ya wanna build just ONE HF receiver for you only, then there's plenty of old books on making radios, just follow what you read in the books, de-bug all what you build, as all the manufacturers have done before you. What happens first though? Do you die in ten years leaving behind a mess to clean up and no working radio, or you get a working radio in 3 months, fairly well perfected, and live for 9 years and 9 mths to enjoy it? *It should use off the shelf parts even if those shelves are bare, as it is better to copy an existing item than design from scratch. I would clone the Eddystone dial mechanism and the bandswitch and coils from some Hallicrafters or Hammarlund set, they could be sold as desperately needed replacement spares for the old sets too. Ah, just WHO is going to clone anything from the past and make any money? use a seeing eye tube mounted in a hole in the dial as opposed to a meter movement, again, getting a run of new tubes made is possible if you are buying several thousand. There are some surplus that could be used if really needed too. Your dreamin again. Its totally stupid to expect anyone might sell thousands of NEW made copies of 1960 SW radios sets without conducting a thorough market feasibility study. The COMPETION for what you propose now has become so overwhelming that nobody in their right mind would consider having say 10,000 new 6BA6, 6BE6 etc manufactured for a production run of thousands of SW sets. Before asking us silly questions, have you :- 1. Learnt all about SW tube radio, 2. Drawn up a probable, or provisional parts list, 3. spent weeks chasing quotes for parts exactly as yo specifiy, 4, Generally put in a whole lot of work so far without relying on any of us, who, IMHO, will conclude you are on a goose chase. *I would use a separate power supply and speaker for several reasons. Well of course, but you'll die when you work out the cost of production for your project is 100 times what people now pay for SW reception with a whole pile of features you'll probably not want to include. *I would have the radio take in B+ and heater voltage and put out 600 ohm +4 audio. A regular supply could be used at home or car battery and a switchmode brick for B+. A headphone jack would be supplied off this tube. *The set should cover 500 kHz to 30 MHz, AM, SSB and CW, with a product detector of course. A 455 kHz IF is needed so as to use common mechanical or crystal filters, which are optional. There should also be a 455 kHz IF out for an external synchronous detector. All those features have already been well sorted out by old makers. But there was a magazine called Electronics Australia which has now been swallowed up by 'Silicon Chip' but they have a CD with the old magazines monthly output from 1939 to 1965. http://shop.siliconchip.com.au/radio...ch-1965-1.html Perhaps within that magazine you'll find full articles about building good SW radios with tubes which were second to none. Hardly any of the parts used are now available, but hey, yo issa dreamer, and you'll just dream them all up. Reality is that you might spend years building such a set, at a glacial rate of 1 tube stage per 3 months. My bet is that of the maybe 200 blokes who attempted to build the radios which are so well described in the magazine, maybe 10 finished a set to a respectable standard. Magazines became viable, because dreamers bought them. Mostly do-little nerds as I recall. What's so rivettingly interesting about SW reception? What form of media entertainament is worth listening to on SW? What is available on SW which ain't available elsewhere, apart from a pile of noise, poor audio, whistles, fade outs, and old amateur blokes droning on and on about their latest hospital operations? New York police maybe? I regularly restore old radios. Last job was a 1947 Healing floor standing 5 band AM radio for the fashionable Bling-Blang generation of 1947, ie, my parents generation. It has a 6J8 mixer plus 6U7 IF, and is chockoblock with coils and special wafer switches but it does give remarkably good reception of Radio America of China Calling even in daytime, with a long wire antenna taken out to a nearby tree. Anyway, I put in about 130 hours fixin up the old banger, and the one section I didn't alter at all was the 3 band SW section. Not much alignment was needed to maximise performance. Local MW was changed to ferrite rod antenna replacing the horrible high impedance RF input tranny which worked fine before the present which is riddled with hum imposing itself on many incoming signals in the electro static portion of the electromagnetic waves. The ferrite rod reacts to the magnetic part of the incoming wave which is not affected by compact fluorescent lamps et all. But now we have local Digital Radio Broadcasting now all based on frequencies up around 250Mhz. The local Australian Broadcasting Commission, or ABC, has just begun trials here for broadcasting of all they have on MW, 2 stations, and all they have on FM, another 2 stations, on digital. Don't ask me how DAB works. I can't find any schematics of concise explanations. So, listeners who have loved their old tubed radio set because it carried the MW local stations now don't need to use their tubed set, and can access the old AM station program noise free and with full audio BW with hi-fi specs from their tiny little box sets for DAB. Now sometimes ppl with radios capable of SW might try surfing the bands, but now DAB is here ppl won't be able to surf these SW bands, but then who ever did ? There were 101 different ideas put forward for providing a decent tubed SW radio which never saw commercial development and production, such as the early synchrodyne. The superhet was deemed to be the best. Racal had 3 mixers, and was remarkably stable for an old banger but now with digtally generated oscillator F and all that chipery stuff and computer controlled stuff, stablity is far better now. Wanna copy a Yeasu? If I wanted to build a 6 band SW radio now I think I might have 6 j- fet RF amp stages well controlled by AVC, then 6 j-fets for oscillators, and thus not need a special made bandswitch, except some generic easy to buy wafer switch from Farnells with 6 positions. Mixer could be one of many options, maybe more than one, to minimise switching of the IF output. With such cheap small devices with high gm and low noise, the cost is far less than a complex switch and just two tubes to work on all bands. But all this is so easy to say, and such things are easier said than done, and succes relies on YOU. And there are very few ppl here who are heavily into farnarkling with HF radios, so there are not many brains here to be picked, or if you do try, you'll probably get 101 suggestions all requiring maybe years to perfect and after that you still can't equal the best old sets. I heard about a bloke who built a CD player using just generic opamps. It took so long...... Any other comments? But good luck with you quest. You'll definately need +60dB of that. Patrick Turner. |
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#5
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
Patrick Turner wrote:
But good luck with you quest. You'll definately need +60dB of that. Patrick, I too was going to write something like that, but you did far better than I could. The point that was buried in his original posting was that he is building an "EMP-PROOF" radio to sell to the survivalist market. Personally I think it is a fools errand, you can't build a modern radio similar to the high performing ones of the past at a cost anyone will pay, since in comparison, you can buy any one of the many old radios that will do, pay a professional to refurbish and align it, and buy several lifetimes worth of spare parts for far less. Not only that but radio collecting is a well known and liked hobby, nobody is going to take a second look at that old transoceanic on your shelf, but many would flip out seeing any firearm. If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-( |
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#6
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
wrote in message ... With the survivalist market as well as the DIYers who would build a kit I have given thought to the idea of building a new tube shortwave receiver as a usable, practical set. I can't imagine that any rational survivalist would waste power running tubed electronics. I guess you could hype the EMP issue, but even that can be handled better with SS. |
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#7
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:52:48 -0800, rrusston wrote:
the bandswitch and coils from some Hallicrafters or Hammarlund set, Anyone who'd use the old Halli bandswitch has never had to fix a Halli bandswitch. The trouble with valve radios is they use lots of electricity. |
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:
Patrick Turner wrote: But good luck with you quest. You'll definately need +60dB of that. Patrick, I too was going to write something like that, but you did far better than I could. The point that was buried in his original posting was that he is building an "EMP-PROOF" radio to sell to the survivalist market. SS sets are cheap and easily obtainable. Even a Happy Harry Home-owner type can cheaply build a small Faraday cage to keep one in, if anticipating an EMP. Personally I think it is a fools errand, you can't build a modern radio similar to the high performing ones of the past at a cost anyone will pay, since in comparison, you can buy any one of the many old radios that will do, pay a professional to refurbish and align it, and buy several lifetimes worth of spare parts for far less. You'd better invest in a generator and a supply of petrol, too... Not only that but radio collecting is a well known and liked hobby, nobody is going to take a second look at that old transoceanic on your shelf, but many would flip out seeing any firearm. Your friends are all hoplophobes? Why would anyone "flip out" when seeing a firearm? Hell, I have one in my pocket right now, and I can see two more from where I'm sitting. They don't look all that spooky to me. If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address. Huh? Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when purchasing a radio? Got guns? Lord Valve American - so far |
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#9
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote:
If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address. Huh? Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when purchasing a radio? Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale. Other states are currently debating this provision. |
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#10
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
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#11
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
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#12
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 D. Peter Maus wrote: Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when purchasing a radio? Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale. Other states are currently debating this provision. It's for the benefit of the *children*. Many contagious diseases are spread by filthy money and the Brothels just aren't sterilizing the bills like they used to. The Cocaine pushers are far better in this respect, as they get their clients to ingest any product left on the money. Only anti-American terrorists use cash for purchases. Next week I will be proposing a new 'Sterility' law which will require all canned good to be opened for examination before being placed on the store shelves. Then, the mandatory installation nation wide of surveillance cameras in the bathrooms of the Elderly. They fall a lot and the cameras would assure a swift response by medical teams. *SAFETY* is paramount. mike -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOvVymAAoJEGQ2h+1OL/Ac8BsH/jpsFzW2B4zZsToF1IijOYiU WvkC1ZMY0ccaL2VoxgXSeSwTSGw66XYB1DdEUHBTVDxoPH9Tp0 8HBHgDLP83t0Gi I5enxJIrMQhcjsZ9w9XP+sQxhxo0GTlySY5rGPXVshV5brxG1o scL8cfLLi/iMHU KrDSy7rjwmlTdghrpXUeUA2ikYTpQS2Yj82fF44Wl5F+D9yshX r7eLp1P7TIiqkQ C2M4bGSUxQesth2uwokN9ZT37pWAnKj4P8wT2iPHGHeI6A2LPA ybnugSpp5NVeKo P7gP9a8nDMVQdRbLGy9/tjpQDibk9isKB5vf1gARHbUCnoErZTFHH751oWgWurY= =0WgL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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#13
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
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#14
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 11, 11:29*pm, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote: Patrick Turner wrote: But good luck with you quest. You'll definately need +60dB of that. Patrick, I too was going to write something like that, but you did far better than I could. The point that was buried in his original posting was that he is building an "EMP-PROOF" radio to sell to the survivalist market. Oh, I didn't think of that. If WW3 breaks out, all arses will have departed, because on hearing about the beginning of WW3 off the Internet, everyone will bend down to kiss their arse goodbye, and arses will depart, bye-bye, and no need for toilets or food any more. But "survivalist" resonated exuberantly in my mind because I'm 64, and the foppish Beatles used to sing a song "will ya still lerve me when I'm 64?". I'm 64. I know the answer, forbidden to be sung about by anyone, and its NO, no one at all will lerve ya when your'e 64, so that means all that's left is survival against a rotten horrible marauding mob of young upstarts hell bent on invading and pillaging and burying alive all that my father's generation established, and they all **** a lot while I'm not allowed to 'av one, well, not for free, and mean while this horrible lot are decimating the remaining species across the planet, and all trying to build absurdly large mansionettes, while all sending huge quantites of CO2 skywards which will ruin the weather, and exacerbate their self generated future difficulties. One "survivavlist" I know had two sound systems I serviced, a Quad-II with early Whardale LS, and a Leak system. Once inside the door of his house, one entered the lounge-room, and it was all exactly as it was in 1955, with a 1956 newspaper on the coffee table screaming headlines "SUEZ BOMBED". 1956 was a time when the rot of modernity really got a toe past the front door of most ppl, and rock and roll was seen as just as bad as WW3. So, this survivalist guy just saw no reason to mentally proceed past 1956. He worked his way up to being chief conserverator at the Australian Sound and Film Archives where much of the audio-visual media of the past ends up to be converted to digital files for future generations to enjoy, and for old blokes to gloat over. I humbly seek approval and aknowledgement that I know what "survivalist" means, and I can also back up mu claim because I know now that the older I get, the betta I was, and I have the recently created medical and dental records to prove it. Personally I think it is a fools errand, you can't build a modern radio similar to the high performing ones of the past at a cost anyone will pay, since in comparison, you can buy any one of the many old radios that will do, pay a professional to refurbish and align it, and buy several lifetimes worth of spare parts for far less. Professionals who know about old Racals and so on are just about all dead now. But to copy a Racal so you could provide a kit would be financial suicide. Not only that but radio collecting is a well known and liked hobby, nobody is going to take a second look at that old transoceanic on your shelf, but many would flip out seeing any firearm. If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address. Well, lotsa Mr Para Noids getting around on the Internet; they all broadcast their ideas, using a false nickname, and wouldn't dare use the name given to them by their parents. So paranoidism isn't any big deal. Bet ya don't go out to night clubs at 2AM any more to hunt for hot crumpet. Too many arsoles will happily mug you. Paranoidism prevents you wandering like a lost old dog than the young bitches will laugh at. Survivalism has you staying at home. But bicycles are safe during the day. Patrick Turner. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-( |
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#15
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 12, 3:45*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote: If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address. Huh? Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when purchasing a radio? * *Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale. * *Other states are currently debating this provision. How about that. I guess the Taxation and Police authorities might like to know how and where ppl spend their cash. But I heard that since 911, hundreds of huge and mainly hidden buildings housing about 2 million workers across the USA have been quietly built and operate to filter all email traffic and phone traffic to detect terrorists and possibly anyone other selectable target, like people trading in OLD STUFF like old radios which consume the same amount of electricity to run an air con unit, or 500 i-pods. These spying centers suck in digital data like huge vacuum cleaners, then apply a filter for key words. One wonders if such centers could detect the next intended school shooting or Oklahoma Bombing. The so called BLACK ECONOMY, ie, the flow of cash which can't be traced and hence isn't taxed is one of the big reasons to try to outlaw cash, and thus have everyone pay the transaction cost to a 3rd party by means of the credit card. But here in Oz, cash is still widely used, and everyone I know does not need to be told to bring cash when paying me peanut wages for radio repairs. I explain to ppl that average wages are 60 grand a year now, ie, $1,300 a week for the 46 weeks out of 52 ppl actually work, ie, $32.50c per hour of 40 hrs a week. (( Ppl get to "administer" this amount, then have to pay $10 income tax and maybe 25 other various bribes to banks for mortage payments and GST, and company profits etc, etc, etc, before keeping $3.25 to buy bananas to give the banana farmer a similar amount via the system of banana distribution so he ends up with 10c per banana. Its all far more complex than a company boss or union rep is willing to describe )). But a radio might take 120 hrs to fix right, and maybe I get $600, after giving them a discount of $3,300 off the wages of $3,900 which should be paid for 120 hours of work. Cash will be around for awhile yet, but in 20 years perhaps goverments will try to save money by not printing it. I'll be dead as the species of cash becomes extinct like the lions, tigers, and elephants, and thousands of lesser known species. Trouble may come if a government values a radio repair transaction as being worth say $3,900 instead of $600, and taxes people on the same rate as those earning average weekly earnings to discourage anyone offering discounts to compete, or to survive. All sorts of BS is possible, but so far, afaik, cash is still extremely popular here. But in 1983, if someone wanted to extend their house, all work valued above $10,000 had to be "declared" to prevent ppl hiding un-seen cash income in the form of house improvements. Guess what. Ppl just did little bits of improvements at a time and still managed to get their house extensions approved by the govt authorities. Bundles of notes went out of one pocket and into another one. But in Greece, there is mastery of the cash economy, and they have many other devious ways of keeping NOSY PARKER GOVT out of business, and as a result, you see the mess Greece is in. Two sides to every story. Maybe another Great Depression might just happen. The Financial System BEAST of the world survives because other ppl have a hand in YOUR pocket whether you like it or not. The Beast extracts a steady trickle of bucks to make credit flow. The trickle is like food, a small percentage of body weight needs to be consumed by the Beast each day to survive and if the trickle feed stops, the Beast gets very sick indeed, thus giving everyone the ****s in a big way. Departments of taxation and Criminal control departments of governments around the world are part of the Beast. Beastly health is mostly desirable, but colly wobbles can now be heard. And there is a gigantic building here worth a billion or two being built at high speed for ASIO, the Oz branch of CIA equivalent, right here in town. Maybe it'll have about 3,000 ppl employed to keep a watch on what everyone else is doing, saying, typing, and sending, and its only "one small step" to knowing what everyone is thinking, and a "giant leap for mankind" to control thinking. From what I see, everyone wants a cheap deal and they don't care about your wages, just their own. Ppl don't care about the environment of anyone or anything living more than 5km away from themselves. Most ppl don't really mind being spied on. And many will happily spy on everyone else. Its going on, and people ain't rioting in the streets about it. Patrick Turner. |
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#16
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/11/11 17:38 , Patrick Turner wrote:
On Nov 12, 3:45 am, "D. Peter wrote: On 11/11/11 08:42 , Lord Valve wrote: If you are paranoid, you an even find stores in many places where you can buy a refurbished radio for cash and leave a fake name and address. Huh? Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when purchasing a radio? Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale. Other states are currently debating this provision. How about that. I guess the Taxation and Police authorities might like to know how and where ppl spend their cash. Actually, it's more sinister than that. But I heard that since 911, hundreds of huge and mainly hidden buildings housing about 2 million workers across the USA have been quietly built and operate to filter all email traffic and phone traffic to detect terrorists and possibly anyone other selectable target, like people trading in OLD STUFF like old radios which consume the same amount of electricity to run an air con unit, or 500 i-pods. These spying centers suck in digital data like huge vacuum cleaners, then apply a filter for key words. One wonders if such centers could detect the next intended school shooting or Oklahoma Bombing. The so called BLACK ECONOMY, ie, the flow of cash which can't be traced and hence isn't taxed is one of the big reasons to try to outlaw cash, and thus have everyone pay the transaction cost to a 3rd party by means of the credit card. But here in Oz, cash is still widely used, and everyone I know does not need to be told to bring cash when paying me peanut wages for radio repairs. I explain to ppl that average wages are 60 grand a year now, ie, $1,300 a week for the 46 weeks out of 52 ppl actually work, ie, $32.50c per hour of 40 hrs a week. (( Ppl get to "administer" this amount, then have to pay $10 income tax and maybe 25 other various bribes to banks for mortage payments and GST, and company profits etc, etc, etc, before keeping $3.25 to buy bananas to give the banana farmer a similar amount via the system of banana distribution so he ends up with 10c per banana. Its all far more complex than a company boss or union rep is willing to describe )). But a radio might take 120 hrs to fix right, and maybe I get $600, after giving them a discount of $3,300 off the wages of $3,900 which should be paid for 120 hours of work. Cash will be around for awhile yet, but in 20 years perhaps goverments will try to save money by not printing it. I'll be dead as the species of cash becomes extinct like the lions, tigers, and elephants, and thousands of lesser known species. Trouble may come if a government values a radio repair transaction as being worth say $3,900 instead of $600, and taxes people on the same rate as those earning average weekly earnings to discourage anyone offering discounts to compete, or to survive. All sorts of BS is possible, but so far, afaik, cash is still extremely popular here. But in 1983, if someone wanted to extend their house, all work valued above $10,000 had to be "declared" to prevent ppl hiding un-seen cash income in the form of house improvements. Guess what. Ppl just did little bits of improvements at a time and still managed to get their house extensions approved by the govt authorities. Bundles of notes went out of one pocket and into another one. But in Greece, there is mastery of the cash economy, and they have many other devious ways of keeping NOSY PARKER GOVT out of business, and as a result, you see the mess Greece is in. Two sides to every story. Maybe another Great Depression might just happen. The Financial System BEAST of the world survives because other ppl have a hand in YOUR pocket whether you like it or not. The Beast extracts a steady trickle of bucks to make credit flow. The trickle is like food, a small percentage of body weight needs to be consumed by the Beast each day to survive and if the trickle feed stops, the Beast gets very sick indeed, thus giving everyone the ****s in a big way. Departments of taxation and Criminal control departments of governments around the world are part of the Beast. Beastly health is mostly desirable, but colly wobbles can now be heard. And there is a gigantic building here worth a billion or two being built at high speed for ASIO, the Oz branch of CIA equivalent, right here in town. Maybe it'll have about 3,000 ppl employed to keep a watch on what everyone else is doing, saying, typing, and sending, and its only "one small step" to knowing what everyone is thinking, and a "giant leap for mankind" to control thinking. From what I see, everyone wants a cheap deal and they don't care about your wages, just their own. Ppl don't care about the environment of anyone or anything living more than 5km away from themselves. Most ppl don't really mind being spied on. And many will happily spy on everyone else. Its going on, and people ain't rioting in the streets about it. They will. About 2 hours after it's too late. |
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#17
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/11/2011 9:34 AM, m II wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 D. Peter Maus wrote: Where are you posting from? Why would anyone need to leave his name and address - fake or otherwise - when purchasing a radio? Because cash transactions are coming under the scrutiny of authority, today. Louisiana just became the most recent state to require identity of purchaser in a cash transaction or a ban on the cash transaction. Even a used purchase from a flea market or a garage sale. Other states are currently debating this provision. It's for the benefit of the *children*. Many contagious diseases are spread by filthy money and the Brothels just aren't sterilizing the bills like they used to. The Cocaine pushers are far better in this respect, as they get their clients to ingest any product left on the money. Only anti-American terrorists use cash for purchases. Next week I will be proposing a new 'Sterility' law which will require all canned good to be opened for examination before being placed on the store shelves. Then, the mandatory installation nation wide of surveillance cameras in the bathrooms of the Elderly. They fall a lot and the cameras would assure a swift response by medical teams. *SAFETY* is paramount. mike -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOvVymAAoJEGQ2h+1OL/Ac8BsH/jpsFzW2B4zZsToF1IijOYiU WvkC1ZMY0ccaL2VoxgXSeSwTSGw66XYB1DdEUHBTVDxoPH9Tp0 8HBHgDLP83t0Gi I5enxJIrMQhcjsZ9w9XP+sQxhxo0GTlySY5rGPXVshV5brxG1o scL8cfLLi/iMHU KrDSy7rjwmlTdghrpXUeUA2ikYTpQS2Yj82fF44Wl5F+D9yshX r7eLp1P7TIiqkQ C2M4bGSUxQesth2uwokN9ZT37pWAnKj4P8wT2iPHGHeI6A2LPA ybnugSpp5NVeKo P7gP9a8nDMVQdRbLGy9/tjpQDibk9isKB5vf1gARHbUCnoErZTFHH751oWgWurY= =0WgL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ROFLOL ... that is funny ... But then, quite suddenly, you realize that the world is full of these irrational imbeciles who really believe this stuff and would vote or demand it "in." The only happy point about our civilization facing the possibility of annihilating itself is the fact it would take these *******s to a place where they can no longer harm themselves or others ... Regards, JS |
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#18
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 12, 5:07*am, John Smith wrote:
On 11/10/2011 9:52 PM, wrote: * With the survivalist market as well as the DIYers who would build a kit I have given thought to the idea of building a new tube shortwave receiver as a usable, practical set. * That means no regens, no DC bull****, and no plug in coils. It must have production grade RF and IF coils, a bandswitch, and require alignment. If sold as a kit the builder will need a RF generator and a scope (or a spec an or CSM with a track gen). * It should use off the shelf parts even if those shelves are bare, as it is better to copy an existing item than design from scratch. I would clone the Eddystone dial mechanism and the bandswitch and coils from some Hallicrafters or Hammarlund set, they could be sold as desperately needed replacement spares for the old sets too. I would use a seeing eye tube mounted in a hole in the dial as opposed to a meter movement, again, getting a run of new tubes made is possible if you are buying several thousand. There are some surplus that could be used if really needed too. * I would use a separate power supply and speaker for several reasons.. * I would have the radio take in B+ and heater voltage and put out 600 ohm +4 audio. A regular supply could be used at home or car battery and a switchmode brick for B+. A headphone jack would be supplied off this tube. * The set should cover 500 kHz to 30 MHz, AM, SSB and CW, with a product detector of course. A 455 kHz IF is needed so as to use common mechanical or crystal filters, which are optional. There should also be a 455 kHz IF out for an external synchronous detector. Any other comments? Yeah, why would anyone build a survival set whose filaments would burn much more power than a VERY high end transistor set? *You plan on hauling around sq yards of solar cells to power that rig? Regards, JS- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The OP may not be hauling mobile tube stuff anywhere. But best SW reception is at night, when the sun don't shine, and the wind hardly blows much. But many ppl here have bought solar photo-voltaic systems for the house roof and they sell the excess power back to the main supplier of the Grid. This pays for the electricity used at other times. But authorities worked out this payment for locally generated power was a subsidy paid by those without solar, and a loss and big ****fights over money occurred soon after solar panel uptake went way over what was expected. Encouraging solar was regarded as part of the "Being seen to be doing something Green and Good" and therefore getting votes, while in reality increasing the cost of electricity, and making SFA difference to overall CO2 emissions. So pay back rates ahve plummeted, and solar companies have gone broke, as only the rich can afford to pay for solar panels, let alone the batteries needed for use of power at night. Country dwellers can get by on low power of solar and batteries if they are careful and have low power everything, use batteries, cook on wood fire, heat water with wood stove, use gas maybe etc, but tube audio or radio is about out of the question, unless you use the low filament current tubes meant for portable radios so popular between 1935 and 1955. They would be very easy to rum from a few batteries, only 8 x 12V car batteries are needed for a B+ of 90Vdc, and its simple to arrange low voltage DC batteries for directly heated cathodes which use very little current. But such "portable tubes" are not being made now. Plenty of good solid state SW radios operating on very low power are to be had. Ppl can then focus on antennas if they want good reception. The receiver performance is basically solved, but after WW3, if you survive, a good antenna to pick up other survivors transmitting with low power might be handy. This assumes WW3 will send the world back to about where it was in 1925, with maybe 2 billion survivors with accelerated death rates, and ever declining technical production ability for non essentials. Essentials like ammunition, bows and arrows will be manufactured. Patrick Turner. |
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#19
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 11, 8:57*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 11/11/11 24:15 , wrote: On Nov 11, 12:04 am, David wrote: My guess is that the cost you would have to charge to recoup the time and effort you put together in coming up with such a design would end up making such a set *much* more expensive than just going to a ham fest, buying a Hammarlund in good shape, and fixing it up. Or even paying someone else to fix it up. * I already have a R-390, two Hammarlunds and a Racal....I wanted to manufacture something. Or at least think about it. * *Certainly worth thinking about. * *Maybe worth doing. But consider: * *Tubes are getting harder to come buy. Not that they can't be had. And after an EMP, they're likely to be as available as working SS devices. But there are inherent issues with Tubes. One is that they use a LOT of precious energy, that in a survival mode situation is best conserved for other applications, or longer listening. Another is that voltages are much higher than those that can be recovered after or during a crisis with ease. Low voltage, low current devices are going to be more desirable when energy is in short supply. * *But, more importantly, tube receivers aren't necessarily less prone to damage by EMP than SS receivers. In fact, there is empirical evidence to suggest that SS receivers can be made to survive an EMP where a tube receiver will not. * *Your best options, then, would include building a reasonably high performance receiver with readily available common parts, and take measures, such as a Faraday cage, and effective grounding/input protection measures, to render your station if not immune, then more resistant to stray or induced hostile voltages. * *Now, you have a practical, and manufacturable, product. -wrt- Faraday Cage : Old Metal {Steel} Garbage Can with a tight fitting Lid. -store-holding- + The Solid State AM/FM/SW Radio + Plenty of Batteries -or- Re-Chargeable Batteries and a Solar Charger -no-tubes-required- ~ RHF |
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#20
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/11/2011 10:10 PM, RHF wrote:
... -wrt- Faraday Cage : Old Metal {Steel} Garbage Can with a tight fitting Lid. -store-holding- + The Solid State AM/FM/SW Radio + Plenty of Batteries -or- Re-Chargeable Batteries and a Solar Charger -no-tubes-required- ~ RHF . Satellites are withstanding these on an almost daily basis, for years, if not decades ... doesn't seem to be a real problem anymore ... however, laying hands to that technology might be a bit of a different story ... as, while one nation might wants its' own satellites hardened, it certainly doesn't want the enemies ... Regards, JS |
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#21
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 12, 2:44*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 11/11/2011 10:10 PM, RHF wrote: ... -wrt- Faraday Cage : Old Metal {Steel} Garbage Can with a tight fitting Lid. *-store-holding- + The Solid State AM/FM/SW Radio + Plenty of Batteries -or- Re-Chargeable Batteries and a Solar Charger -no-tubes-required- ~ RHF * . Satellites are withstanding these on an almost daily basis, for years, if not decades ... doesn't seem to be a real problem anymore ... however, laying hands to that technology might be a bit of a different story ... as, while one nation might wants its' own satellites hardened, it certainly doesn't want the enemies ... Regards, JS As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . |
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#22
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
wrote in message ... As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All satellites still use these for output: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling-wave_tube |
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#23
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Nov 12, 8:55*pm, "Brenda Ann"
wrote: wrote in ... As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- All satellites still use these for output: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling-wave_tube Oh,sorry. But this may be a miniature tube for microwave frequencies . Where do they obtain high voltages - it must be smps type . Solar panels?? |
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#24
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
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#25
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/12/2011 5:55 PM, Brenda Ann wrote:
wrote in message ... As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All satellites still use these for output: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling-wave_tube Fact of the matter is, you don't need tubes in space, you already have a much better vacuum than can ever be created on earth ... you simply need the elements ... Regards, JS |
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#27
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/12/2011 11:12 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:24:02 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 12, 2:44 pm, John wrote: On 11/11/2011 10:10 PM, RHF wrote: ... -wrt- Faraday Cage : Old Metal {Steel} Garbage Can with a tight fitting Lid. -store-holding- + The Solid State AM/FM/SW Radio + Plenty of Batteries -or- Re-Chargeable Batteries and a Solar Charger -no-tubes-required- ~ RHF . Satellites are withstanding these on an almost daily basis, for years, if not decades ... doesn't seem to be a real problem anymore ... however, laying hands to that technology might be a bit of a different story ... as, while one nation might wants its' own satellites hardened, it certainly doesn't want the enemies ... Regards, JS As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . Dream on. Just about every satellite in the sky uses vacuum tubes. The TWT (travelling wave tube) is still the way to generate high, reliable power for space-borne transmitters. d They would be fools to attempt to boost the weight and fragility of vacuum tubes into space, if they have any other alternative ... high power is easily handled with the modern transistors ... the energy requirements of the heaters is also another no-go ... Regards, JS |
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#28
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:42:22 -0800, John Smith
wrote: On 11/12/2011 11:12 PM, Don Pearce wrote: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:24:02 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 12, 2:44 pm, John wrote: On 11/11/2011 10:10 PM, RHF wrote: ... -wrt- Faraday Cage : Old Metal {Steel} Garbage Can with a tight fitting Lid. -store-holding- + The Solid State AM/FM/SW Radio + Plenty of Batteries -or- Re-Chargeable Batteries and a Solar Charger -no-tubes-required- ~ RHF . Satellites are withstanding these on an almost daily basis, for years, if not decades ... doesn't seem to be a real problem anymore ... however, laying hands to that technology might be a bit of a different story ... as, while one nation might wants its' own satellites hardened, it certainly doesn't want the enemies ... Regards, JS As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . Dream on. Just about every satellite in the sky uses vacuum tubes. The TWT (travelling wave tube) is still the way to generate high, reliable power for space-borne transmitters. d They would be fools to attempt to boost the weight and fragility of vacuum tubes into space, if they have any other alternative ... high power is easily handled with the modern transistors ... the energy requirements of the heaters is also another no-go ... Regards, JS Energy requirements are not a problem, and neither is G-loading on takeoff. You are inventing problems where none need exist. TWTs are mega-reliable devices with a very predictable life curve. It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. d |
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#29
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-( |
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#30
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:24:02 -0800, arthrnyork wrote:
As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . Almost all of them use TWTAs, a form of vacuum tube, for their final downlink amplifiers. |
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#31
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? |
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#32
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
dave wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve |
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#33
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve
wrote: dave wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning. The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning. Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which would extinguish a TWT immediately. d |
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#34
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve wrote: dave wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning. The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning. Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which would extinguish a TWT immediately. d Ah. Good point! Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma. But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum tickles my fancy a bit. ;-) Lord Valve |
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#35
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/13/2011 12:07 AM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:42:22 -0800, John wrote: On 11/12/2011 11:12 PM, Don Pearce wrote: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:24:02 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 12, 2:44 pm, John wrote: On 11/11/2011 10:10 PM, RHF wrote: ... -wrt- Faraday Cage : Old Metal {Steel} Garbage Can with a tight fitting Lid. -store-holding- + The Solid State AM/FM/SW Radio + Plenty of Batteries -or- Re-Chargeable Batteries and a Solar Charger -no-tubes-required- ~ RHF . Satellites are withstanding these on an almost daily basis, for years, if not decades ... doesn't seem to be a real problem anymore ... however, laying hands to that technology might be a bit of a different story ... as, while one nation might wants its' own satellites hardened, it certainly doesn't want the enemies ... Regards, JS As far as I know- none of the satellites are using vacuum tubes . That's the reality . Dream on. Just about every satellite in the sky uses vacuum tubes. The TWT (travelling wave tube) is still the way to generate high, reliable power for space-borne transmitters. d They would be fools to attempt to boost the weight and fragility of vacuum tubes into space, if they have any other alternative ... high power is easily handled with the modern transistors ... the energy requirements of the heaters is also another no-go ... Regards, JS Energy requirements are not a problem, and neither is G-loading on takeoff. You are inventing problems where none need exist. TWTs are mega-reliable devices with a very predictable life curve. It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. d I see more that it is you arguing insanity is in vogue this day ... whatever ... Regards, JS |
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#36
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote:
Don Pearce wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve wrote: dave wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning. The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning. Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which would extinguish a TWT immediately. d Ah. Good point! Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma. But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum tickles my fancy a bit. ;-) Lord Valve I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices .... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now gone ... Regards, JS |
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#37
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
John Smith wrote:
On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve wrote: dave wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning. The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning. Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which would extinguish a TWT immediately. d Ah. Good point! Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma. But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum tickles my fancy a bit. ;-) Lord Valve I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices ... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now gone ... Regards, JS Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet? Lord Valve shrug |
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#38
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
On 11/13/2011 2:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote:
John Smith wrote: On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve wrote: dave wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning. The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning. Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which would extinguish a TWT immediately. d Ah. Good point! Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma. But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum tickles my fancy a bit. ;-) Lord Valve I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices ... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now gone ... Regards, JS Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet? Lord Valve shrug I usually don't read imbecilic stuff ... such as yours. But, if I do, I certainly do not take it seriously ... perhaps you will have better luck with others. Regards, JS |
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#40
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.radio.shortwave
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Building a new shortwave tube radio
John Smith wrote:
On 11/13/2011 2:19 PM, Lord Valve wrote: John Smith wrote: On 11/13/2011 10:25 AM, Lord Valve wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:38:28 -0700, Lord Valve wrote: dave wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:39:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: It is much more important to know exactly how long and how well your satellite is going to work than to hope to get longer by using a technology that might last longer, but will more probably die unexpectedly when struck by a cosmic ray burst. Sometimes you can not predict how long a satellite will be used. A friend of mine worked on a civilian satellite for a defense contractor and just before the division was sold off, cleaned out any old documents and files they had on it. Since the satellite he had worked on was way past its expected life (but still in use), the contracts had long expired, the work was not classified and a new improved one was due to be launched in a few days, he was told to dump it all. A few days later, the booster exploded on the pad, and the replacement was destroyed. The sattelite was kept running for many years, although there were no documents on what to do or how it was built. Geoff. What good is a diagram if the unit is 24,000 miles in the air? It had better *not* be in the air... ;-) Besides - I saw mention upthread of using the ambient vacuum with just the tube elements, rather than a typical evacuated glass (or other material) enclosure...is the vacuum in geosynchronous orbit really hard enough? It would seem to me that there are probably plenty of gas molecules floating around at that height, even if it would still qualify as a "soft" vacuum. Anybody? Lord Valve For all sorts of other reasons, standard enclosed tubes are used. Main reasons are first to contain the electrons so other metalwork doesn't get involved, and second to maintain the correct physical positioning. The helix is of very fine tolerance in both pitch and positioning. Space is certainly hard enough, but the environment around a satellite is frequently not space, but a diffuse cloud of exhaust gas which would extinguish a TWT immediately. d Ah. Good point! Satellites do indeed need to use propellant of some sort to keep in position; I didn't think of that at all. And it would seem that even if the ambient vacuum were hard enough, conventional construction of the TWT would be needed to keep contaminants out of it during the satellite assembly process down on Terra firma. But I must admit, the idea of using ambient vacuum tickles my fancy a bit. ;-) Lord Valve I don't recall anyone ever claiming there was no enclose on the devices ... just the reasons for enclosing them the way we do on earth is now gone ... Regards, JS Do you actually read this ****, or have you been into the medicine cabinet? Lord Valve shrug I usually don't read imbecilic stuff ... such as yours. But, if I do, I certainly do not take it seriously ... perhaps you will have better luck with others. Regards, JS Oh. So, you're just another garden-variety ****. shrug Y'all have a Real Nice Day now, y'heah? Got guns? Lord Valve American - so far |
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