[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On 14 Oct 2008 09:20:23 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:

I've generally felt B&O products are overpriced. (Their new self-adjusting
speakers are supposed to be very good, but they're not the sort of product
I'd own.)

Much as I have disliked B&O products, I have to give them credit for actually
putting money into actual research, not just into product development. They
are probably the only home stereo companies out there that is funding any
actual research in the audio community, and that's a good thing.
--scott

I've liked some of them and disliked others.
They certainly are innovative however and the construction, at least for
the older stuff seemed solid enough.
Tandberg was another manufacturer that made under rated gear IMHO.

Today you can barely find any stores that sell high end audio.
At one time NYC was loaded to the gills with them.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:32:48 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan wrote:

John Connors wrote:

Were there differences in the equipment?
Sure.
Could most people hear them?
Nope.
Could some people hear them?
Yep.

Was that actually proved properly? Nope.

In the typical hi end audio store, probably not because of conditions and
the bias of the sales people, known as commission...

However in the wild.....

Yea it has been.

I went to an AES conference way back when, and they had a panel of "golden
eared" people as well as some audiophile enthusiasts.
The purpose was to examine high end cables compared to normal wire.

They used double blind with an AB comparator for level matching etc....

A set of automobile jumper cables was thrown in, unknown to the
participants.

If I recall correctly the jumper cables won, by a small, yet statistically
valid margin....

Does this mean they were *better* ?
No.
What does better mean?
Who knows.


I subscribe to the Julian Hirsch theory that if it sounds different it
*can* be measured, but only 99.9 percent so.....
I do believe there is a 0.1 percent of *things* that some people can hear
differences with, consistently, but yet that can't be measured by current
standards.

This is really a meta or uber argument because the definition of different
doesn't mean better or worse.
There is always a subjective component involved unless you are simply
piping waveforms down a cable and measuring ins and outs.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On 14 Oct 2008 16:06:23 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:35:35 GMT, Mike Rivers wrote:

Or go down to the local drug store and use the *tube tester* !
I remember my father cussing and swearing at that thing.

Even as a kid, I was convinced the thing was rigged to read "bad" even when
some tubes were fine.

They were, for the most part. The cheap testers in stores were just
emission testers, not real transconductance testers, and they
tended to be calibrated a bit in that range. On the other hand,
some tube failures (especially of conventional pentodes) can leave
you with good emission on the tester but tubes that don't actually work.
--scott

Yea...years later when I became an engineer (they still taught tubes then)
I learned all the ins and outs of how things worked.
Still over the years, one thing always baffled me.

We had back then a XAM (EJ Korvettes house brand I believe) BW TV set and
we would go away every summer on vacation for 2 months and the TV was left
home and not used.
Without fail, when we got home, the TV would not work and some *oddball
tube*, my fathers words, amongst others, would be cracked, physically.
He had to travel half way across NYC to get a replacement.
I never did figure that one out.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Bob]

"Moshe Goldfarb." wrote in message
...
On 14 Oct 2008 09:20:23 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:


Today you can barely find any stores that sell high end audio.
At one time NYC was loaded to the gills with them.

och, all we know with avenue (in NYC) u going, but we know another countrys
too. :-}


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Paul Stamler]

"Moshe Goldfarb." wrote in message
...

I subscribe to the Julian Hirsch theory that if it sounds different it
*can* be measured, but only 99.9 percent so.....
I do believe there is a 0.1 percent of *things* that some people can hear
differences with, consistently, but yet that can't be measured by current
standards.

And it's often the effort to explain the "unexplainable" differences people
hear that leads to new and useful measurements.

Peace,
Paul

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:40:24 -0400, Bob wrote:

"Moshe Goldfarb." wrote in message
...
On 14 Oct 2008 09:20:23 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:


Today you can barely find any stores that sell high end audio.
At one time NYC was loaded to the gills with them.

och, all we know with avenue (in NYC) u going, but we know another countrys
too. :-}

Hahahha!
Point taken!


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:26:53 GMT, Paul Stamler wrote:

"Moshe Goldfarb." wrote in message
...

I subscribe to the Julian Hirsch theory that if it sounds different it
*can* be measured, but only 99.9 percent so.....
I do believe there is a 0.1 percent of *things* that some people can hear
differences with, consistently, but yet that can't be measured by current
standards.

And it's often the effort to explain the "unexplainable" differences people
hear that leads to new and useful measurements.

Peace,
Paul

Yes it does, and that;s where my .1 percent comes into play!!

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Steven Sullivan]

Paul Stamler wrote:
"Moshe Goldfarb." wrote in message
...

I subscribe to the Julian Hirsch theory that if it sounds different it
*can* be measured, but only 99.9 percent so.....
I do believe there is a 0.1 percent of *things* that some people can hear
differences with, consistently, but yet that can't be measured by current
standards.

And it's often the effort to explain the "unexplainable" differences people
hear that leads to new and useful measurements.

The first useful experiment is to see if the 'unexplainable' difference survives
a double-blind listening test.



--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)