[Danny T]

Last night I went to the Brad Paisley concert where he sang a duet
with an on screen Alison Krauss that sing perfectly synced to the song
- then he had a live satellite feed with BB King on screen too, who
played with the band.

Tell me how anyone can pull that off in a live setting like that!

[Danny T]

On Oct 5, 12:21*pm, Chel van Gennip wrote:
Danny T schreef:

Last night I went to the Brad Paisley concert where he sang a duet
with an on screen Alison Krauss that sing perfectly synced to the song
- then he had a live satellite feed with BB King on screen too, who
played with the band.

Tell me how anyone can pull that off in a live setting like that!

Are you sure it was a "satellite" link, and not a land line. Nowadays
internet links are fast enough for video. That would reduce the delay
significantly.

--
Chel van Gennip (chel vangennip nl)
Visit Serg van Gennip's sitehttp://www.serg.vangennip.com

All I know for sure is that the background screen showed BB and
actually said "BB KIng Live from Las Vegas Via Satellite Link" or
something really close to that. I was pretty much floored that it
seemed real.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 12:35:41 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
Last night I went to the Brad Paisley concert where he sang a duet
with an on screen Alison Krauss that sing perfectly synced to the song
- then he had a live satellite feed with BB King on screen too, who
played with the band.

Tell me how anyone can pull that off in a live setting like that!

I think it went like this:

Through his in-ear monitors, he synced his singing to a scratch track. The
scratch track was transmitted in advance to the remote particpants, advanced
by the average latency of the connection.

Syncing remote video(plural) and audio(plural) to a real-time
in-yer-face performance is a really cool trick.

Your plan for a "scratch track" just needs a measurement of all
of the time delays, video and audio, to the performance site,
and appropriate delays added to the longest for the live performer's
monitors, and less for other locations, yada-yada. Done deal.


'Course, the first-approximation guess is that the whole contraption
was pre-recorded.

Excuse me for being bitter, but I just spent my Sunday afternoon
listening to almost three hours of the local rep theater performance
of Les Mis, fabulously overproduced and insanely expensive, and
EVERYBODY was body-mic'ed.

Not just the principals, which would have been merely ridiculous
in a room of this size, with singers of this caliber and training,
and material of this scale - no, EVERYBODY was body-mic'ed, and
turned up to eleven.

They no longer even bother to try to hide the mic's, as if anybody
could even care anymore - they tape some mic's onto some peoples'
*foreheads*.

Anybody who doubts me needs only to sit on the third row. Ginny's
friend Suzy, a totally non-technical person, saw it with us. She
volunteered, without prompting, that she thought the show was a
recording.

That's from sometimes six or eight feet from the performers. Sad state
of affairs these days. And **** Broadway's influence on American
theater - I hope their ass falls off.


*ANYTHING* is possible in "live performance" these days.



I feel better now. Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 00:23:55 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Chris, you should have gone in there with a jammer, and then offered to do
it properly.

I hate to say it, because it sounds like boasting, or something
pretentious, but I actually could have done it a whole lot better.
I've done SR where careful listeners, serious folks, have come
up to me afterwards and said that they couldn't tell there was
any SR.

Doesn't make me a genius or anything, but it does mean that a
whole lot better could be easily done here if anybody cared to.
Nobody cares to do so, is the problem. The chosen goal is the
problem.

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[Danny T]

On Oct 5, 11:21*pm, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 12:35:41 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"

wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message
....
Last night I went to the Brad Paisley concert where he sang a duet
with an on screen Alison Krauss that sing perfectly synced to the song
- then he had a live satellite feed with BB King on screen too, who
played with the band.

Tell me how anyone can pull that off in a live setting like that!

I think it went like this:

Through his in-ear monitors, he synced his singing to a scratch track. The
scratch track was transmitted in advance to the remote particpants, advanced
by the average latency of the connection.

Syncing remote video(plural) and audio(plural) to a real-time
in-yer-face performance is a really cool trick.

Your plan for a "scratch track" just needs a measurement of all
of the time delays, video and audio, to the performance site,
and appropriate delays added to the longest for the live performer's
monitors, and less for other locations, yada-yada. Done deal.

'Course, the first-approximation guess is that the whole contraption
was pre-recorded.

Excuse me for being bitter, but I just spent my Sunday afternoon
listening to almost three hours of the local rep theater performance
of Les Mis, fabulously overproduced and insanely expensive, and
EVERYBODY was body-mic'ed.

Not just the principals, which would have been merely ridiculous
in a room of this size, with singers of this caliber and training,
and material of this scale - no, EVERYBODY was body-mic'ed, and
turned up to eleven.

They no longer even bother to try to hide the mic's, as if anybody
could even care anymore - they tape some mic's onto some peoples'
*foreheads*.

Anybody who doubts me needs only to sit on the third row. Ginny's
friend Suzy, a totally non-technical person, saw it with us. She
volunteered, without prompting, that she thought the show was a
recording.

That's from sometimes six or eight feet from the performers. Sad state
of affairs these days. And **** Broadway's influence on American
theater - I hope their ass falls off.

*ANYTHING* is possible in "live performance" these days.

I feel better now. Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

I was probably 20 feet to the side of the drummer but he was up on a
riser so it was hard to see what he was syncing to. It appeared he was
really intense on the few synced songs like he was really following a
click track which is the only way I can understand it. Thing is I was
a guest of someone that was from another record company so I didn't
really feel like it was appropriate to bother folks asking questions
but I have to say its bugging me not knowing.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:47:53 -0700 (PDT), Danny T
wrote:

I was probably 20 feet to the side of the drummer but he was up on a
riser so it was hard to see what he was syncing to. It appeared he was
really intense on the few synced songs like he was really following a
click track which is the only way I can understand it. Thing is I was
a guest of someone that was from another record company so I didn't
really feel like it was appropriate to bother folks asking questions
but I have to say its bugging me not knowing.

Whether or not anybody was actually making any sound, everybody
visible in the room had to be sync'd to the person(s) furthest
"behind" in time, and everybody's video and audio somehow
appropriately delayed enough to allow that to happen.

It *is* a pretty cool trick, but then Natalie Cole played with
her father after his death, and Steve Martin appeared with Humphrey
Bogart in _Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid_, so some liberties may
have been taken with our innocence...

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[Danny T]

On Oct 6, 12:12*am, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:47:53 -0700 (PDT), Danny T

wrote:
I was probably 20 feet to the side of the drummer but he was up on a
riser so it was hard to see what he was syncing to. It appeared he was
really intense on the few synced songs like he was really following a
click track which is the only way I can understand it. Thing is I was
a guest of someone that was from another record company so I didn't
really feel like it was appropriate to bother folks asking questions
but I have to say its bugging me not knowing.

Whether or not anybody was actually making any sound, everybody
visible in the room had to be sync'd to the person(s) furthest
"behind" in time, and everybody's video and audio somehow
appropriately delayed enough to allow that to happen.

It *is* a pretty cool trick, but then Natalie Cole played with
her father after his death, and Steve Martin appeared with Humphrey
Bogart in _Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid_, so some liberties may
have been taken with our innocence...

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

See, now you're just making me feel sad. I was really impressed last
night! :-)

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Danny T
wrote:

See, now you're just making me feel sad. I was really impressed last
night! :-)

Aw, that's nothing to feel sad about. It's just good
theater - nothing wrong about that at all. Besides, do we
*really* want to know how a magic trick is done?

Once we know, it's no fun any more! Arf.

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[Danny T]

On Oct 6, 12:28*am, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Danny T

wrote:
See, now you're just making me feel sad. I was really impressed last
night! :-)

Aw, that's nothing to feel sad about. It's just good
theater - nothing wrong about that at all. Besides, do we
*really* want to know how a magic trick is done?

Once we know, it's no fun any more! Arf.

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

Actually, I'm the guy that always watches the magician to expose the
trick :-)

[Geoff]

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
Syncing remote video(plural) and audio(plural) to a real-time
in-yer-face performance is a really cool trick.

Not as much as spontaneous unrehearsed interactive conversation would be...


geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 5, 12:03 pm, Danny T wrote:
Last night I went to the Brad Paisley concert where he sang a duet
with an on screen Alison Krauss that sing perfectly synced to the song
- then he had a live satellite feed with BB King on screen too, who
played with the band.

Tell me how anyone can pull that off in a live setting like that!

You've already had a few hints. The technology is here and better than
ever. It's an old trick, though, going back some 20 years, wo when we
first had telephone transmission fast enough to handle digital audio
in real time. The trade magazines at the time were running stories
about Stevie Wonder in one city putting down a track on a Frank
Sinatra session in a studio in another city through the wonders of
digitlal auido over the phone lines.

A few studios were set up to do this, and were bragging about how much
money and time it was saving because nobody had to travel. But at the
time, the comparison was the cost of a first class plane ticket and a
night in a hotel to rest up before the session (plus a couple of days
lost for a half-hour of recording) with the $5,000 it cost to least
the phone line for a day. Nope, the biz just ain't what it used to
be.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

Syncing remote video(plural) and audio(plural) to a real-time
in-yer-face performance is a really cool trick.

You don't do it. The remote performer is wild, or has a locally generated
click. The band performs against his track, sometimes with his click.
(Stereo audio on the video link, one channel used for click). Takes practice,
but that's what music is all about.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ben Bradley]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 00:36:50 +1300, "Geoff"
wrote:


"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
Syncing remote video(plural) and audio(plural) to a real-time
in-yer-face performance is a really cool trick.

Not as much as spontaneous unrehearsed interactive conversation would be...

A half-second or more of latency that would prevent a truly
interactive musical performance might not be enough to be easily
noticed in a conversation (the remote performer would need headphones
or in-ear monitors so his mic wouldn't pick up the echo from the stage
signal).
Even if that is a problem, there's no way to know if an
"interactive conversation" is truly spontaneous and unrehearsed.
Musicians rehearse musical performances, why not "interactive
conversations," too...

Sorry, Danny.



geoff

[Arny Krueger]

"Danny T" wrote in message


Last night I went to the Brad Paisley concert where he
sang a duet with an on screen Alison Krauss that sing
perfectly synced to the song - then he had a live
satellite feed with BB King on screen too, who played
with the band.

Tell me how anyone can pull that off in a live setting
like that!

I've seen amazing things done with click tracks.