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#1
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Micing a harp
In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal
harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#2
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Micing a harp
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy
wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W I would suggest you leave the question of musical balance to the musical director (conductor) and mic the entire ensemble in standard classical fashion. Don't make special provision for any instruments unless there is a specific soloist, who you may want to spot mic; even then, don't actually use the spot mic track unless the soloist really is vanishing in the mix, and needs lifting just very slightly. The way you mic the ensemble is a matter of personal taste, and what mics you have available, but think in terms of ORTF and XY if you have nice cardioids, and spaced omni or maybe Jecklin disc otherwise. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#3
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Micing a harp
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy
wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Are you spot-micing ALL the orchestral instruments? Or is the harp a featured soloist? |
#4
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Micing a harp
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W I would suggest you leave the question of musical balance to the musical director (conductor) and mic the entire ensemble in standard classical fashion. Don't make special provision for any instruments unless there is a specific soloist, who you may want to spot mic; even then, don't actually use the spot mic track unless the soloist really is vanishing in the mix, and needs lifting just very slightly. The way you mic the ensemble is a matter of personal taste, and what mics you have available, but think in terms of ORTF and XY if you have nice cardioids, and spaced omni or maybe Jecklin disc otherwise. Certainly, an ORTF pair will be used, but because the hall is acoustically small (i.e. low ceiling ~ 23ft), I am concerned that harp will become lost behind any other sounds in the room. I'd like to spot mic the harp as a fall back position, since it doesn't take much surrounding sound level to drown out this particular instrument. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#5
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Micing a harp
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Are you spot-micing ALL the orchestral instruments? Or is the harp a featured soloist? Yes and yes. The hall is sufficiently small that the loud instruments (drums, horn section) need no amplification, but the quieter instruments are swamped. Even though the orchestration is such that harp won't have to compete with the trumpets, I'd like to be in the situation where I can pull the harp level up a tad if needed. An ORTF pair will be used, but as I said to Don, I'd like to have a safe-guard for quiet instruments like the harp. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Micing a harp
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:41:25 +0200, Chris Whealy
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W I would suggest you leave the question of musical balance to the musical director (conductor) and mic the entire ensemble in standard classical fashion. Don't make special provision for any instruments unless there is a specific soloist, who you may want to spot mic; even then, don't actually use the spot mic track unless the soloist really is vanishing in the mix, and needs lifting just very slightly. The way you mic the ensemble is a matter of personal taste, and what mics you have available, but think in terms of ORTF and XY if you have nice cardioids, and spaced omni or maybe Jecklin disc otherwise. Certainly, an ORTF pair will be used, but because the hall is acoustically small (i.e. low ceiling ~ 23ft), I am concerned that harp will become lost behind any other sounds in the room. I'd like to spot mic the harp as a fall back position, since it doesn't take much surrounding sound level to drown out this particular instrument. Chris W Is the harp a solo instrument? If not, I really wouldn't bother. But if you are really nervous about it, put a spot mic on it. You will be limited in where the mic can go by the instruments around it, and you will need to worry more about not picking up odd noises from other people than super quality. If you do decide you need to use the spot track, you will need to offset the timing to match the difference in distance. You can help yourself in this before the performance by recording a handclap from the harp's position. Use it like a clapperboard in films to give you the timing offset you need. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Micing a harp
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy
wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W -- A month ago, I've made a quite fine recording of a solo harp both in a curch and in a beach lounge caffe the next day. The performer was Monika Stadler, an excellent harp player and the instrument was a very fine German concert harp too, the Horngacher Meisterharfe. This harp has a full-length slot on the back of the resonator body instead of holes. I've found that the resonant frequency of the body is about 150 Hz. In the church, I've set the recorder (PCM-D1) at 1,5 m from the harp at it's half-height, the recorder's (pseudo)X-Y mics facing towards audience. I tapped gently the both harp sides to catch the balance. Later, I've added some LF tilt just to get more body taking in account that 150 Hz area. The resonant frequency can be easily determined by recording the body as it's "catching" the sound of the ambient and later by drawing its frequency plot. The harp sound is very overtone-rich and quite transient. I'd reccomend a smaller membrane microphone pair with a fine top end, such as Schoeps. With good harps, handling noise would be nil and harpists usually move back and forth to a degree while playing, depending of hand positions. In this case, due to constrained space, I would also place a microphone pair facing out but the other sound may be just loud. I'd see the concert part to see how the harp will be played, if there are solos, where are potentially quitetest parts etc. and I'd ride it all the way. Wishing you sucess, Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Micing a harp
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:41:25 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W I would suggest you leave the question of musical balance to the musical director (conductor) and mic the entire ensemble in standard classical fashion. Don't make special provision for any instruments unless there is a specific soloist, who you may want to spot mic; even then, don't actually use the spot mic track unless the soloist really is vanishing in the mix, and needs lifting just very slightly. The way you mic the ensemble is a matter of personal taste, and what mics you have available, but think in terms of ORTF and XY if you have nice cardioids, and spaced omni or maybe Jecklin disc otherwise. Certainly, an ORTF pair will be used, but because the hall is acoustically small (i.e. low ceiling ~ 23ft), I am concerned that harp will become lost behind any other sounds in the room. I'd like to spot mic the harp as a fall back position, since it doesn't take much surrounding sound level to drown out this particular instrument. Chris W Is the harp a solo instrument? If not, I really wouldn't bother. But if you are really nervous about it, put a spot mic on it. You will be limited in where the mic can go by the instruments around it, and you will need to worry more about not picking up odd noises from other people than super quality. Hence my question about the possible use of a contact mic... If you do decide you need to use the spot track, you will need to offset the timing to match the difference in distance. You can help yourself in this before the performance by recording a handclap from the harp's position. Use it like a clapperboard in films to give you the timing offset you need. Understood Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#9
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Micing a harp
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:24:44 +0200, Chris Whealy
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:41:25 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W I would suggest you leave the question of musical balance to the musical director (conductor) and mic the entire ensemble in standard classical fashion. Don't make special provision for any instruments unless there is a specific soloist, who you may want to spot mic; even then, don't actually use the spot mic track unless the soloist really is vanishing in the mix, and needs lifting just very slightly. The way you mic the ensemble is a matter of personal taste, and what mics you have available, but think in terms of ORTF and XY if you have nice cardioids, and spaced omni or maybe Jecklin disc otherwise. Certainly, an ORTF pair will be used, but because the hall is acoustically small (i.e. low ceiling ~ 23ft), I am concerned that harp will become lost behind any other sounds in the room. I'd like to spot mic the harp as a fall back position, since it doesn't take much surrounding sound level to drown out this particular instrument. Chris W Is the harp a solo instrument? If not, I really wouldn't bother. But if you are really nervous about it, put a spot mic on it. You will be limited in where the mic can go by the instruments around it, and you will need to worry more about not picking up odd noises from other people than super quality. Hence my question about the possible use of a contact mic... If you do decide you need to use the spot track, you will need to offset the timing to match the difference in distance. You can help yourself in this before the performance by recording a handclap from the harp's position. Use it like a clapperboard in films to give you the timing offset you need. Understood Chris W A contact mic really takes weeks to set up and get right - it isn't something you can just stick on and hope to get anything like a good sound. The big danger you have here is that you find you need to use a lot of the spot track to get the harp audible. It will then stick out like a sore thumb because it has an entirely different acoustic to the rest of the orchestra. You may find you need to apply some reverb to the harp solo track before you mix it with the rest of the orchestra. The absolute best way to do this is record the impulse of the hall from the harp location to the main mics, and use that with a convolution reverb. But anything vaguely similar will do a good job - better than nothing anyway. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#10
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Micing a harp
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message ... In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. Never tackle a harp. They are a little unsteady and heavy. If it falls on you, it could hurt! ;-) To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). Harps vary a lot, and the sounds they make vary quite a bit with the instrumentalist playing them. I've found that harps are something like pipe organs, in that they are acoustically large and radiate a lot of sound in many directions so their sound is actually quite pervasive. The bigger problem IME has been managing the spill from the harp into the mics for other nearby instruments. I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. There seem to be a lot of competing suppliers. I imagine the ones with good reputations with other string instruments will do as good job as can be expected. I've got some concerns about contact mics for harps because harps don 't seem to have a centralized sounding board. I get this feeling that even more than usual, you can get as many different sounds out of a contact mic on a harp as there are distinct places to put it. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Like organs, IME it's hard to avoid getting a fairly musical sound out of a harp recording. They are both very pervasve sound sources, of course the pipe organ being far larger, louder and more pervasive. |
#11
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Micing a harp
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:24:44 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:41:25 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:53:47 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W I would suggest you leave the question of musical balance to the musical director (conductor) and mic the entire ensemble in standard classical fashion. Don't make special provision for any instruments unless there is a specific soloist, who you may want to spot mic; even then, don't actually use the spot mic track unless the soloist really is vanishing in the mix, and needs lifting just very slightly. The way you mic the ensemble is a matter of personal taste, and what mics you have available, but think in terms of ORTF and XY if you have nice cardioids, and spaced omni or maybe Jecklin disc otherwise. Certainly, an ORTF pair will be used, but because the hall is acoustically small (i.e. low ceiling ~ 23ft), I am concerned that harp will become lost behind any other sounds in the room. I'd like to spot mic the harp as a fall back position, since it doesn't take much surrounding sound level to drown out this particular instrument. Chris W Is the harp a solo instrument? If not, I really wouldn't bother. But if you are really nervous about it, put a spot mic on it. You will be limited in where the mic can go by the instruments around it, and you will need to worry more about not picking up odd noises from other people than super quality. Hence my question about the possible use of a contact mic... If you do decide you need to use the spot track, you will need to offset the timing to match the difference in distance. You can help yourself in this before the performance by recording a handclap from the harp's position. Use it like a clapperboard in films to give you the timing offset you need. Understood Chris W A contact mic really takes weeks to set up and get right - it isn't something you can just stick on and hope to get anything like a good sound. The big danger you have here is that you find you need to use a lot of the spot track to get the harp audible. It will then stick out like a sore thumb because it has an entirely different acoustic to the rest of the orchestra. You may find you need to apply some reverb to the harp solo track before you mix it with the rest of the orchestra. The absolute best way to do this is record the impulse of the hall from the harp location to the main mics, and use that with a convolution reverb. But anything vaguely similar will do a good job - better than nothing anyway. d OK, the harpist says he has used a contact mic before, so (hopefully) he will know where it should be located... Thanks Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#12
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote:
In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. A BBC training manual suggests that if you are experiencing a lot of pedal and mechanism noise, placing the mic a couple of feet behind the player's head will screen it from the worst of that noise without spoiling the sound of the harp. It sounds as if this is not going to be much help in your particular circumstance this time, but I mention it for future reference. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk |
#13
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Micing a harp
You may not have time later so throw something up at setup , perhaps something that normally works well for you with strings or piano Coming from up top a foot or so facing down to get the overall harp and minimize leakage . The danger being that you may use things just because you can , so of course listen , but it a pressure with that many people waiting it is good to be prepared . Have fun , i'm sure it'll turn out fine as long as your paying attention regards Greg "Chris Whealy" wrote in message ... In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#14
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Micing a harp
You may not have time later so throw something up at setup , perhaps something that normally works well for you with strings or piano Coming from up top a foot or so facing down to get the overall harp and minimize leakage . The danger being that you may use things just because you can , so of course listen , but it a pressure with that many people waiting it is good to be prepared . Have fun , I'm sure it'll turn out fine as long as your paying attention regards Greg "Chris Whealy" wrote in message ... In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#15
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote:
In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. Ignore it. It's part of the band. Mike the band, not the harp. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). That doesn't sound good, but it's going to be harder on the audience than on you. I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. You will not get anything approaching a real harp sound that way, because you will lose all the string attack. You MIGHT consider something like a 441, raised up and pointing down. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. If you are in such bad straits that you have to spot the harp, you're going to have to spot the basses too. It is not going to be pretty. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#16
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Micing a harp
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. Ignore it. It's part of the band. Mike the band, not the harp. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). That doesn't sound good, but it's going to be harder on the audience than on you. I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. You will not get anything approaching a real harp sound that way, because you will lose all the string attack. You MIGHT consider something like a 441, raised up and pointing down. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. If you are in such bad straits that you have to spot the harp, you're going to have to spot the basses too. It is not going to be pretty. --scott Hmmm, thought you'd say that... OK, scrap the contact mic idea Got to hire in some Schoeps cardioids anyway to make an ORTF pair, so I could add a 441 to the list. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#17
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote in -
ag.de: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. I regularly mic a harp in a choral/orchestral setting, both to record and as sound reinforcement for solos. I place a figure-8 microphone pointing toward the sound board about 3/4 down from player to floor and about 1 to 1.5 feet above the board. Point the mic mostly down (vertical) and the orchestra as a whole will be in the doughnut shaped null around the mic. Make sure it's out of the way of the harpist. Don't want her slapping it as she reaches for the low strings. This configuration gives me adequate isolation and resonant sound. My microphone choice is probably overkill for your situation, but I like it. It's a Schoeps CMC6 with 6G multipattern capsule. |
#18
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: If you are in such bad straits that you have to spot the harp, you're going to have to spot the basses too. It is not going to be pretty. Hmmm, thought you'd say that... OK, scrap the contact mic idea Got to hire in some Schoeps cardioids anyway to make an ORTF pair, so I could add a 441 to the list. A schoeps hyper would do nicely too. And I'd throw a 421 or something on the basses. Try and be there for the rehearsal. You're going to have to delay the spot mikes with respect to the main pair so measure the distances to make setting the delays easier in mixdown. You're also going to have to EQ the crap out of the spots to keep them from standing out like sore thumbs. I hate jobs like that. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#19
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote:
In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. It is not a weak instrument. To provide some background: The harp will be part of a 28 piece orchestra that is accompanying a 90 member choir plus various soloists. The musicians are in the corner of the hall. Due to the acoustics of the hall and layout of the stage area, the string section (violins, viola, cello, harp) need to be at the back of the orchestra. The spacing between the musicians is tight (think orchestra pit). A single pair comes to mind. I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I had a pair 4 meters from a harp once, the darn jumps out of its proper place in sonic perspective and sounds as if it is halfway between mic stand and ensemble instead of in the front row of the ensemble where it actually is. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. Not to worry, stereo pair on the ensemble, get the balance as it is and leave getting it right to the conductor. This is a concert, the event is the concert. Experience from anyone who's done this before would be appreciated. See also my general comments on mic distance strategy in the nearby jazz recording thread. A cardioid pair on the ensemble, another on the choir, a couple of cards for the soloists and an omni (jecklin?) pair on the hall, you will have plenty to handle as it is. The harp is just another voice in the ensemble, record the ensemble. Chris W Record the rehearsal(s) as possible and applicable.... even if they don't do it exactly like that at showtime it helps a lot to be familiar with the actual programme. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#20
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote:
Are you spot-micing ALL the orchestral instruments? Or is the harp a featured soloist? Yes and yes. The hall is sufficiently small that the loud instruments (drums, horn section) need no amplification, but the quieter instruments are swamped. Drums, horn section ... where are those? ... just how do they think the show will work, sounds to me as it they ought to call George or a nearby collegue of his. IF the show works, then you can record it, if it doesn't ... including if it needds sound reinforcement ... then you quite possibly can not. Even though the orchestration is such that harp won't have to compete with the trumpets, I'd like to be in the situation where I can pull the harp level up a tad if needed. An omni on a stand near it. But remember: the harp is a physically large instrument, get too close and things will get weird because you only get a part of it. An ORTF pair will be used, but as I said to Don, I'd like to have a safe-guard for quiet instruments like the harp. Use two pairs then - if careful angling of one doesn't do it - one on the front row(s) and one on the rear row(s), it may well work to have them on the same stand. The simpler the better, the more stuff you put up, the more errors you can make, trust me. You can't just put a single spot mic on an instrument in an ensemble row, the more mics, the closer all have to be, and suddenly more becomes many. Chris W Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#21
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Micing a harp
Peter Larsen wrote:
Drums, horn section ... where are those? ... just how do they think the show will work, sounds to me as it they ought to call George or a nearby collegue of his. IF the show works, then you can record it, if it doesn't ... including if it needds sound reinforcement ... then you quite possibly can not. Believe me, its not a concert hall, but its the hall we're stuck with. We've had an acoustician who specialises in church acoutics come over from Canada, and he has made significant improvements to the sound. However, we're running up against the laws of physics now... Who's George? An omni on a stand near it. But remember: the harp is a physically large instrument, get too close and things will get weird because you only get a part of it. True, that's much what Arnie said Use two pairs then - if careful angling of one doesn't do it - one on the front row(s) and one on the rear row(s), it may well work to have them on the same stand. Yes, I was planning to do this already The simpler the better, the more stuff you put up, the more errors you can make, trust me. You can't just put a single spot mic on an instrument in an ensemble row, the more mics, the closer all have to be, and suddenly more becomes many. Yes, I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle (not the rock band... :-) Thanks for your comments Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#22
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Micing a harp
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: If you are in such bad straits that you have to spot the harp, you're going to have to spot the basses too. It is not going to be pretty. Hmmm, thought you'd say that... OK, scrap the contact mic idea Got to hire in some Schoeps cardioids anyway to make an ORTF pair, so I could add a 441 to the list. A schoeps hyper would do nicely too. And I'd throw a 421 or something on the basses. Try and be there for the rehearsal. Absolutely, I'll be there! You're going to have to delay the spot mikes with respect to the main pair so measure the distances to make setting the delays easier in mixdown. Fine You're also going to have to EQ the crap out of the spots to keep them from standing out like sore thumbs. I hate jobs like that. Thanks for the encouragement!! :-) Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#23
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Micing a harp
Carey Carlan wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote in - ag.de: In about 6 weeks, I need to record a performance that includes a pedal harp. I've never had to mic such an instrument before so I'd like some opinions on the best way to tackle it. I regularly mic a harp in a choral/orchestral setting, both to record and as sound reinforcement for solos. I place a figure-8 microphone pointing toward the sound board about 3/4 down from player to floor and about 1 to 1.5 feet above the board. Point the mic mostly down (vertical) and the orchestra as a whole will be in the doughnut shaped null around the mic. Make sure it's out of the way of the harpist. Don't want her slapping it as she reaches for the low strings. This configuration gives me adequate isolation and resonant sound. My microphone choice is probably overkill for your situation, but I like it. It's a Schoeps CMC6 with 6G multipattern capsule. Thanks. I'll be hiring in some Schoeps anyway so this would not be a problem. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
#24
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Micing a harp
Chris Whealy wrote:
I think a contact mic on the sound board would be a good approach due to the proximity of other musicians, but I don't know which type would be suitable. I can usually source most microphones from a local hire company, so purchase cost is not an issue since we won't be buying. One way to get the whole harp when close micing is to use an X/Y coincident pair setup vertically instead of horizontally in front of the harp. You want to get as truly coincident as possible for the result to sound coherent and as a single instrument instead of two, one high and one low. Pan them both in mono at mixdown. The K&K folks make pickups for harps, and they supply the pickups fror that fancy amplified French harp (can't recall the name right now and I'm in a tire shop without 'net access). If you need to use a pickup, I'd suggest checking with them. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#25
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Micing a harp
hank alrich wrote:
One way to get the whole harp when close micing is to use an X/Y coincident pair setup vertically instead of horizontally in front of the harp. You want to get as truly coincident as possible for the result to sound coherent and as a single instrument instead of two, one high and one low. Pan them both in mono at mixdown. The K&K folks make pickups for harps, and they supply the pickups fror that fancy amplified French harp (can't recall the name right now and I'm in a tire shop without 'net access). If you need to use a pickup, I'd suggest checking with them. Thanks Hank, good to know that a specialist pickup exists for this instrument. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. --- |
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