[Roger Hughes]

Have any on this list had experience with either the RME UFX or Prism
Sound Orpheus -- two comprehensive firewire "all in one" interfaces?
The Orpheus gets glowing reviews for a high end interface, but it's
about $2,500 more than the UFX, which also gets good reviews. I'm
looking to simplify my home studio setup (using both Digital Performer
and Logic Pro on a Mac Pro), and a front end with good mic pres and
converters, plus good routing, is appealing. Many thanks for any
informed opinions.

Roger

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/15/2011 7:12 PM, Roger Hughes wrote:
Have any on this list had experience with either the RME UFX
or Prism Sound Orpheus -- two comprehensive firewire "all in
one" interfaces?

Both companies have a top notch reputation. How good do you
need it to be? These days "good enough" even in some of the
low end brands is mighty good. I hate to say it, but unless
you're doing work on projects with a budget that lets you
feel comfortable owning a $2500 interface, you can probably
keep everyone, including yourself, happy with the sound by
using a $1000 functional equivalent. In addition to sounding
good, RME has a reputation for keeping on top of operating
system changes with prompt driver updates when necessary.

I haven't had my hands on either the Prism Orpheus or RME
UFX, but I can put in a good word for the Focusrite Saffire
Liquid 56 which goes for about a grand on the street. I have
one here for a review now and the worst thing I can say
about it is that the font both on the front panel and on the
GUI control application is too small and I have trouble
reading the labels for the controls. It sounds just fine,
and the two Liquid preamps give you some subtle things to
play with sound-wise.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Roger Hughes]

Mike:
Thanks for your helpful advice. I wasn't aware of the Focusrite 56 as
a front end. It looks impressive at a much more reasonable price. But
this isn't so much about pleasing clients -- which was a major factor
when I owned commercial studios -- but about pleasing me. My interest
is in recording pristine acoustic instruments and vocals. For the last
seven years I've basically used a Rosetta 800 and Symphony 32 card
(which I found out the hard way is incompatible with Mac OS 10.6.8) for
basic recording, with a Pendulum Quartet and a Cranesong Hedd 192 as a
front end (also using the 192 for mastering). With the Symphony card
coming undone (long story due to my own stupidity), I am now
contemplating stripping down the home studio to bare essentials,
reducing outboard boxes, wires, etc. and keeping everything as compact
-- but as high quality -- as possible. I'm thinking of moving to one
of the new iMacs, and the firewire interface (which admittedly could be
on the way out, what with the introduction of Thunderbolt) has some
appeal. Of course, I could keep the Pendulum Quartet and HEDD 192 for
a front end to anything, but outside of keeping the HEDD for mastering,
part of me wants to get rid of all the "big" analog boxes and use one
comprehensive unit for the front end and monitoring.

I happened to run across the Prism Orpheus, and the reviews were
stunning. Then I ran across the RME UFX reviews, which basically
concluded that while it couldn't rival the Orpheus as the "benchmark"
for mic pres and AD conversion, it was damn close for less money. And
I would suspect that the Focusrite 56 -- for even less $$ -- would work
as well, too. But could I tell the difference? Would I always have
the "gear lust", that seductive voice in the back of the mind, that
reminded me what I could have had if I just invested more dollars?

What keeps one "happy" with what they have? Essentially, I can afford
most of this gear. But I don't like paying for alleged quality that my
ears might not be able to discern, to say nothing of the people who
listen to my mixes -- usually through tiny computer speakers and MP3
files through earbuds. I know it's irrational -- but then so much of
life is, n'cest pas?

Anyway, I respect your feedback as a seasoned audio pro. If I can get
my gear lust under control (wishful thinking?), I will put the
Focusrite 56 in the queue of things to consider.

Roger

On 2011-07-15 17:44:37 -0700, Mike Rivers said:

On 7/15/2011 7:12 PM, Roger Hughes wrote:
Have any on this list had experience with either the RME UFX
or Prism Sound Orpheus -- two comprehensive firewire "all in
one" interfaces?

Both companies have a top notch reputation. How good do you need it to
be? These days "good enough" even in some of the low end brands is
mighty good. I hate to say it, but unless you're doing work on projects
with a budget that lets you feel comfortable owning a $2500 interface,
you can probably keep everyone, including yourself, happy with the
sound by using a $1000 functional equivalent. In addition to sounding
good, RME has a reputation for keeping on top of operating system
changes with prompt driver updates when necessary.

I haven't had my hands on either the Prism Orpheus or RME UFX, but I
can put in a good word for the Focusrite Saffire Liquid 56 which goes
for about a grand on the street. I have one here for a review now and
the worst thing I can say about it is that the font both on the front
panel and on the GUI control application is too small and I have
trouble reading the labels for the controls. It sounds just fine, and
the two Liquid preamps give you some subtle things to play with
sound-wise.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/15/2011 11:31 PM, Roger Hughes wrote:

But could I tell the difference? Would I always have the
"gear lust", that seductive voice in the back of the mind,
that reminded me what I could have had if I just invested
more dollars?

You may or may not be able to tell the difference. If you
listen hard enough, you probably will. But how important is
it, really? Will you be listening to your work with "test
equipment ears" all the time? Can you simply sit back and
enjoy the music?

Gear lust, once caught, is never cured. But you can still
connect your high end preamps to any reasonable analog input
and hear what it does. A/D converters are getting mighty
good these days. And for the final touch, at some point you
might consider getting an upscale D/A converter. Some of the
audiophile units are mighty impressive, Lynx just came out
with a cool stereo one for about $2500, and there are
Benchmark and Lavry D/A converters for about a grand that
might be a slight improvement over what you get in a general
purpose box.

What keeps one "happy" with what they have?

Nothing. There will always be something better, as long as
you're a gear lust kind of a guy. The best way I've found to
be happy with my gear is to put a CD into the player in the
living room, with the cheap Mitsubishi receiver powering the
1997 vintage Bozak Concert Grands, sit on the couch with a
beer or a cup of tea, open up a book, and enjoy the great
background muisc.

Essentially, I
can afford most of this gear. But I don't like paying for
alleged quality that my ears might not be able to discern

That's what makes gear lust such a horrible disease. It's
even worse when you know you can't hear the difference but
you're sure that someone else can. You don't want to give
someone a recording and have him say "That sounds like you
used an RME converter. Would you like to try my Lavry some
time? You'll like it better." Or worseL "That sounds like
you used RME converters. Everyone knows that they suck."


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[hank alrich]

Roger Hughes wrote:

Have any on this list had experience with either the RME UFX or Prism
Sound Orpheus -- two comprehensive firewire "all in one" interfaces?
The Orpheus gets glowing reviews for a high end interface, but it's
about $2,500 more than the UFX, which also gets good reviews. I'm
looking to simplify my home studio setup (using both Digital Performer
and Logic Pro on a Mac Pro), and a front end with good mic pres and
converters, plus good routing, is appealing. Many thanks for any
informed opinions.

Roger

Have you check out the Metric Halo stuff?

http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/

Extremely good kit, IMO, and the best customer service I've ever
experienced.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:

Gear lust, once caught, is never cured. But you can still
connect your high end preamps to any reasonable analog input
and hear what it does. A/D converters are getting mighty
good these days. And for the final touch, at some point you
might consider getting an upscale D/A converter. Some of the
audiophile units are mighty impressive, Lynx just came out
with a cool stereo one for about $2500, and there are
Benchmark and Lavry D/A converters for about a grand that
might be a slight improvement over what you get in a general
purpose box.

But it goes the other way too. People upgrade, and then they decide
after many years that they liked the old one better.

What keeps one "happy" with what they have?

Having stuff that sounds good. My Ampex sounds good. It's paid for.
There are some major disadvantages to it, and some serious advantages
too. I bought it, I like it. I use it for what it's good for. For
what it isn't good for, I use something else, or I pass the job on to
somebody else.

The trick is to know what sounds good in the first place, and this is
not as easy as it sounds.

Essentially, I
can afford most of this gear. But I don't like paying for
alleged quality that my ears might not be able to discern

That's what makes gear lust such a horrible disease. It's
even worse when you know you can't hear the difference but
you're sure that someone else can. You don't want to give
someone a recording and have him say "That sounds like you
used an RME converter. Would you like to try my Lavry some
time? You'll like it better." Or worseL "That sounds like
you used RME converters. Everyone knows that they suck."

When you get to the point of buying high end gear, you can audition
it before you buy it and decide for yourself. I had the Prism converter
on loan for a month before I decided to buy it. I had a Weiss on loan
for a week or so before I decided that it sounded different than the
Prism but not necessarily better and I decided not to buy it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/16/2011 7:07 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mike wrote:
Gear lust, once caught, is never cured.

But it goes the other way too. People upgrade, and then they decide
after many years that they liked the old one better.

Maybe, but few of them admit it, at least not until someone
makes hit record with the old one and they become popular
again. Then you can say "I wish I never sold mine."



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
Maybe, but few of them admit it, at least not until someone makes hit
record with the old one and they become popular again. Then you can say "I
wish I never sold mine."

People just say that when the price goes through the roof and they wish they
had never sold it, cheaply!
I don't miss anything I've sold, but I sure could have made a lot more
money! 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing :-)

Trevor.

[Chip Borton]

On 7/15/2011 5:12 PM, Roger Hughes wrote:
Have any on this list had experience with either the RME UFX or Prism
Sound Orpheus -- two comprehensive firewire "all in one" interfaces? The
Orpheus gets glowing reviews for a high end interface, but it's about
$2,500 more than the UFX, which also gets good reviews. I'm looking to
simplify my home studio setup (using both Digital Performer and Logic
Pro on a Mac Pro), and a front end with good mic pres and converters,
plus good routing, is appealing. Many thanks for any informed opinions.

Roger


Go to the RME web site and read the forum to get an idea of whats going
on with the UFX.

I dont know about the Orpheus, but I can tell you that I have loved my
UFX since the day it arrived and love it even more every day. I swear
its the best thing since sliced bread.

The Totalmix software lets you easily route anything to anything else,
The front USB recording is awesome, and it cane be done simultaneously
while recording to your software of choice.

The sound of it is clean, quiet and the mic pre's are near perfect.
It runs in standalone mode so even if your computer crashes it wont
affect the UFX's recording or other processes.

It understands Mackie control protocol so you can control it with
various fader controllers without the need of a computer.

RME has been steadily updating firmware and software and you can get
a prompt reply on the forums by RME.

I get recording latency of around 3 milliseconds on both firewire and USB.

The on board DSP reverb and compression is usable at least for headphone
mixes or such. I have better reverbs and plugs in software but the DSP
is perfectly usable.

My opinion? Love it.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Trevor wrote:
"Mike wrote in message
...
Maybe, but few of them admit it, at least not until someone makes hit
record with the old one and they become popular again. Then you can say "I
wish I never sold mine."

People just say that when the price goes through the roof and they wish they
had never sold it, cheaply!
I don't miss anything I've sold, but I sure could have made a lot more
money! 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing :-)

Trevor.



But they're only worth money because everybody sold them.

--
Les Cargill

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/18/2011 2:41 AM, Trevor wrote:
"Les wrote in message
...
Maybe, but few of them admit it, at least not until someone makes hit
record with the old one and they become popular again. Then you can say
"I
wish I never sold mine."

People just say that when the price goes through the roof and they wish
they
had never sold it, cheaply!

But they're only worth money because everybody sold them.

Not at all. If none are thrown away there are still the same number in
existance, whoever owns them.

That's not entirely true. A lot of this stuff actually goes
into the dumpster and unless someone is in the right place
and right time to rescue it, it's gone. No more re-sale, not
even a source of spare parts. Individuals don't usually
scrap working audio gear, but sometimes just have to get rid
of it, like the washing machine sized 16-track tape deck
when you're moving and have been using a DAW for several years.

Institutions, like broadcast facilities or commercial
recording studios, tend to be pretty quick about disposal,
though. Usually it's a case that the space is needed for
something that's going to actually make them money, so out
it goes. They're not inclined to sell a fragile tube
compressor to a newbie home studio user because they don't
want to be bothered with questions for the next several years.

My approach is to keep everything I've ever bought. I may
not use it every day, but I know where it is if I want to
use it. Sometimes I have to fix it first. I'm a little
concerned that I may have a problem with my Soundcraft 600
console, though. It's not yet (and probably never will be)
"desirable vintage" and I'd actually like to replace it with
something new and functionally similar, but haven't found
the right replacement yet. I'm afraid that if I ever move,
that will be the impetus to replace it and it will end up in
a landfill. Of course I'll try to sell it, and maybe I'll be
able to sell a few modules, but I'll be surprised if I get
2% of its original value. I can, however, be reasonably, but
not 100%, confident that I'm not going to see modules going
for hundreds of dollars ten years later. But you never can
tell.

Some things do indeed increase in value, but most of my
stuff is old enough so that it's already gone up that slope
and is reasonably stabilized now. Mics are like that, but
why sell a mic? It doesn't take up a lot of room and they're
all useful for something. I feel a bit of sympathy for
people who are on such a strict budget that they have to
sell one thing in order to buy another. They're the ones who
often try to hold out for top dollar, and are the most
disappointed when they have to sell something at a given
period's going price that eventually takes off. But that
doesn't really happen very much any more.

They don't make "vintage" equipment like they used to.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
Not at all. If none are thrown away there are still the same number in
existance, whoever owns them.

That's not entirely true. A lot of this stuff actually goes into the
dumpster


Er isn't that why I just said "if none are thrown away"! Then go on to say
some are, but that is not the main reason why prices go up. If it was ALL
junk would go up in value, which it clearly doesn't.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Numismatics ( that's really what we're talking here ) are a lousy
hedge.

Right, but that doesn't stop many. People love all Ponzi schemes it seems,
they just can't get enough of them :-)

And... what inflation?

You might have none at the moment, but just check your costs over the last
20 years and tell me there was none!
Here in Aus the inflation rate is still around 3%/yr.

Trevor.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Trevor wrote:
"Les wrote in message
...
Numismatics ( that's really what we're talking here ) are a lousy
hedge.

Right, but that doesn't stop many. People love all Ponzi schemes it seems,
they just can't get enough of them :-)

And... what inflation?

You might have none at the moment, but just check your costs over the last
20 years and tell me there was none!

We've had 2.3% average for 20 years. That's cumulative error, not
inflation per se.

Here in Aus the inflation rate is still around 3%/yr.

Trevor.



--
Les Cargill

[Trevor]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Conversion out of my Macbook Pro is so much better than from the Dell
that it's not even funny.

Well they aren't designed for HiFi that's for sure! But simply adding a $50
USB converter will make it perform at least as well as your Macbook Pro.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Furthermore, laptops often lack line inputs.

That would be most IME. But hardly an issue any more with the ready
availability of decent low cost USB converters. And since this is
rec.audio.pro, *very good* multi channel, USB and Firewire boxes :-)

Trevor.