[Peter Wieck]

On Sep 4, 6:59*pm, wrote:

Whyever should I? The samples from the ****** Price you supplied was
enough to tell me what sort of halfbaked idiocy lurks there. And
Tainter isn't much better.

Perhaps so that you might be able to discuss on the merits rather than
entirely ad-hominum. However, you have demonstrated repeatedly and
perpetually that actual facts, meaningful discussion and verifiable
sources are not your forte - that would be character assasination and
blatant, pretentious hogwash.

One might actually believe that you were doing this for fun except for
your pathological need to overwhelm your opponents with specious
tripe. And you share with your amanuensis, apologist and general water-
carrier Mr. Byrns the need to rear up like a virgin spinster when
called on it. The difference, however, between you and Mr. Byrns is
that he generally has some basic knowledge of the facts when he enters
into a discussion. Something that has eluded you to-date. He does lack
your colorful gift of language on the other hand even if the results
are meaningless.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Lord Valve]

Andre Jute wrote:

On Sep 3, 5:57 am, (Dersu Uzala) wrote:
Andre spewed:

But, Dumbo, before we can believe anything athttp://dieoff.org/, you
first have to prove the underlying assumption of 'finite resources'.
You've done no such thing.

I don't know about you, but I live on the planet Earth. Trust me, neglecting
the small increase in mass due to meteorites, it is a finite planet, and I
haven't read about any inter-planetary ore ships docking here.

Which ores are in short supply? It is widely known, and leading
environmentalists were deeply embarrassed when they took a bet that
ore prices would skyrocket and lost the bet, that the prices of metals
and other commodities are in long-term decline through over-supply.

Even petroleum isn't proven to be finite:
every year there are more reserves at the contemporary price: the
market is working brilliantly, despite the worst efforts of that
despicable cartel, OPEC.

In a finite set(Earth), all sub-sets(oil) are finite. Can you handle this
math? Or do you believe new oil is made everyday? Abiotic like? How's the
North Sea's production going? Isn't the UK a net importer now? Even though the
North Sea oil fields have the most modern equipment, and easiest capital
access?

Your manner of speaking, and your entire though-pattern, is
conditioned by your failure to grasp the human spirit, by the in
humanity of people in your camp.You speak as if there is some natural
law that we have to use petroleum forever. We don't have to. We have
coal and peat and nuclear energy and water energy -- and above all we
have human ingenuity. Long before the last oil is exhausted you won't
be able to give the filthy stuff away, except to the poor nations,
because we will have so much energy from other sources that it won't
be worth digging for oil, except in low-tech economies.

For practical purposes, for the century we
will still use petroleum before we perfect refining hydrogen from
tapwater, resources are sufficient.

How does one "refine" hydrogen from water without losing energy? Entropy, ya
know. A Nobel awaits you upon you answer. Zero point energy doesn't count.

The cost-benefit analysis considers the cost of extraction versus the
income from the use plus the indirect benefits to society (including
its environment).

And, of course, nuclear power is
truly infinite. But this isn't about energy, is it, you nasty little
necrosis, it is about giving undeserving jerks like you control over
their fellows.

An assumption without evidence. Please post a link that supports your insult
or apologize.

You posted the link, Dumbo, in which Tainter licked his lips about the
violent death of tens of millions and the removal of energy from
politics, which can only mean in the institution of a dictator and an
energy police on the model of the Gestapo. If that isn't giving
undeserving jerks like Tainter -- and by extension you, his acolyte --
control over your fellows, what is? You guys are a walking, talking
Stalinist nightmare.

CONCLUSION:
The "order" that the scum at dieoff.org want to introduce is death, as
it was in Communist Russia, Cambodia under Pol Pot, and China under
Mao. Even today's Chinese are smarter than that. If we give in to
these necrophiliac creeps, for the first time in history we will have
a manmade energy catastrophe. I know who should die off before we
permit them to create a disaster, and it is those dangerous jerks at
dieoff.org.

An assumption without evidence. Please post a link that supports this insult
or apologize.

You already posted the link with the evidence, Dumbo: http://dieoff.org/.
You further posted the relevant quotations. If you don't agree with my
analysis, you must show us how energy policy can be removed from the
market and effectively policed without massive force. You must further
show how central planning will work better than it did in the
Communist Soviet Union or in China. The rest of us know the answer: it
can't work without mass murder.

Really, I know you can read and work the internet. I don't care
if you have had a stroke, you should not be acting the fool when it is obvious
that your ability to reason is still present.

Oh, I had a stroke almost forty years ago. I don't know where you ever
got the idea I am in any way impaired. As for my ability to reason, it
is precisely my analysis of the material you supplied which has
stopped you influencing impressionable minds with the lies of Price
and Tainter. I would call that a victory for reason over the enemies
of society.

Andre Jute
Nil carborundum illegitimi

Hail, good Jute-fellow! And well met.

I see you're up to your usual sensible shenanigans. I'm not sure
why you'd want to argue with another in the endless series of commie
****heads who seem to pollute the online world, but...communism
it is, and not even presented in a shiny new wrapper (as by Obama
et al) at that. And I can't help but notice the myopic focus of those
who insist on considering the Earth as a closed system...which it
may indeed be on the micro level; however, on the macro level (which
this particular type of clod seems to be completely incapable of
perceiving) there are quadrillions of tonnes of resources floating
around waiting for some enterprising businessmen to snap them up,
and that's just in this solar system alone. Metals, organics, gases,
water, unlimited solar power...and most of it eminently accessible
using technologies which have existed since the 1950s. And anyone
who thinks that's balderdash should consider the reaction of someone
from, say, 1910, confronted with the prospect of obtaining petroleum
from a hole drilled a mile beneath the surface of the ocean: "Absolutely
impossible - never happen." Sure...only now, it's routine - and has been
for quite awhile.

Right about here is where the scoffers will boil out of the woodwork,
****ing and moaning about impossibilities and huge infrastructure
investments and whatnot. Just like that dude from 1910. These are
nearsighted people, and they will continue to **** on each other's
shoes.

At any rate, wherever you find someone advocating massive
control of any natural resource, you can bet your sweet arse
you've encountered a commie. And that commie will almost
certainly be painted green, for within the green movement is
where most of them currently reside...although the Bear is
grumbling of late. Perhaps it was just hibernating, eh? ;-)

Well - gotta go do my exercises. I severed my quadriceps
tendon a little more than a couple of months ago, and I'm currently
in the process of stretching the sewed-together remains
of it back into a functional system which will allow my knee
to bend more than the 90 degrees it is currently capable
of. I fear that at some point I shall have to take up bicycle
riding as a form of rehabilitation; fortunately, that is at least
on the other side of the coming winter. Until then, I shall
be content with hobbling around with my cane...when I'm not
styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high monster
which I can easily walk around in. (I don't think I could drive
anything smaller, since my right leg would have to be much
more functional than it currently is to work the pedals in
one of those miniature green-weenie things which pass
for automobiles these days.) I can, however, work the
pedals underneath my Hammond/Roland keyboard rig,
and I do have more time these days to practice... ;-)

Be well.

Lord Valve
alias Willie the Gimp

[Clive George]

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

[Lord Valve]

Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van. Many of them
are in use as limousines, ambulances, etc. And the CRD
turbo-diesel power plant will smoke tires - and get 27 MPG
on the highway, which ain't too shabby for something rated
to carry 1500 kg. 20 in the city. Enjoy your Smart Car or
your Vespa, Clive. It's "you."

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/sprinte...ngr/index.html

Real Men Drive Sprinters. ;-)

Lord Valve
Stylin'

[Clive George]

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van.

Your defence makes it all the funnier. It's a fast transit. It's amusing
that it's sold as personal transport, and even funnier if an owner thinks
it's got style - over here, nobody would choose to drive one outside work.
Even the blinged up minibus variants are seen as no more than utility or
maybe hen night transport.

They are quite efficient at carrying loads or a full complement of
passengers, so they're not all bad, but that's not really the image you're
aiming for, is it.

[Peter Wieck]

On Sep 8, 1:00*pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Lord Valve" wrote in message

...

Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van.

Your defence makes it all the funnier. It's a fast transit. It's amusing
that it's sold as personal transport, and even funnier if an owner thinks
it's got style - over here, nobody would choose to drive one outside work..
Even the blinged up minibus variants are seen as no more than utility or
maybe hen night transport.

They are quite efficient at carrying loads or a full complement of
passengers, so they're not all bad, but that's not really the image you're
aiming for, is it.

The Dodge Sprinter has a very nice 3L Mercedes diesel 6 engine mated
to a 5-speed autotrans in it, true. And in its RV or passenger-van
livery - very different shocks and springs- it has a decent ride -
for what it is.

Otherwise, it is a big, cheap box made to enclose the most space
inside the least sheet-metal. Accordingly, it has been adopted by DHL,
UPS and many other such services world-wide. Cheap and Capacious. Its
suspension is best-described as 'adequate' for large loads. And it
comes in several degrees of size, dual and single wheel rear axles and
so forth. But it is a *truck*. And it has about as much style as an
oppossum.

Put another way, don't get between a Mutual Admiration Society. Facts
are not relevant, stroking is the goal. Just watch it happen and pray
that you are never in so desperate a position.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Clive George]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...

The Dodge Sprinter has a very nice 3L Mercedes diesel 6 engine mated
to a 5-speed autotrans in it, true. And in its RV or passenger-van
livery - very different shocks and springs- it has a decent ride -
for what it is.

Otherwise, it is a big, cheap box made to enclose the most space
inside the least sheet-metal. Accordingly, it has been adopted by DHL,
UPS and many other such services world-wide. Cheap and Capacious. Its
suspension is best-described as 'adequate' for large loads. And it
comes in several degrees of size, dual and single wheel rear axles and
so forth. But it is a *truck*. And it has about as much style as an
oppossum.

As my posting addy indicates, I'm leftpondian. Sprinters have been around
here for years. They're known for being quick vans, nothing more.

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 8, 4:55*pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:57 am, (Dersu Uzala) wrote:
Andre spewed:

But, Dumbo, before we can believe anything athttp://dieoff.org/, you
first have to prove the underlying assumption of 'finite resources'.
You've done no such thing.

I don't know about you, but I live on the planet Earth. Trust me, neglecting
the small increase in mass due to meteorites, it is a finite planet, and I
haven't read about any inter-planetary ore ships docking here.

Which ores are in short supply? It is widely known, and leading
environmentalists were deeply embarrassed when they took a bet that
ore prices would skyrocket and lost the bet, that the prices of metals
and other commodities are in long-term decline through over-supply.

Even petroleum isn't proven to be finite:
every year there are more reserves at the contemporary price: the
market is working brilliantly, despite the worst efforts of that
despicable cartel, OPEC.

In a finite set(Earth), all sub-sets(oil) are finite. Can you handle this
math? Or do you believe new oil is made everyday? Abiotic like? How's the
North Sea's production going? Isn't the UK a net importer now? Even though the
North Sea oil fields have the most modern equipment, and easiest capital
access?

Your manner of speaking, and your entire though-pattern, is
conditioned by your failure to grasp the human spirit, by the in
humanity of people in your camp.You speak as if there is some natural
law that we have to use petroleum forever. We don't have to. We have
coal and peat and nuclear energy and water energy -- and above all we
have human ingenuity. Long before the last oil is exhausted you won't
be able to give the filthy stuff away, except to the poor nations,
because we will have so much energy from other sources that it won't
be worth digging for oil, except in low-tech economies.

For practical purposes, for the century we
will still use petroleum before we perfect refining hydrogen from
tapwater, resources are sufficient.

How does one "refine" hydrogen from water without losing energy? Entropy, ya
know. A Nobel awaits you upon you answer. Zero point energy doesn't count.

The cost-benefit analysis considers the cost of extraction versus the
income from the use plus the indirect benefits to society (including
its environment).

And, of course, nuclear power is
truly infinite. But this isn't about energy, is it, you nasty little
necrosis, it is about giving undeserving jerks like you control over
their fellows.

An assumption without evidence. Please post a link that supports your insult
or apologize.

You posted the link, Dumbo, in which Tainter licked his lips about the
violent death of tens of millions and the removal of energy from
politics, which can only mean in the institution of a dictator and an
energy police on the model of the Gestapo. If that isn't giving
undeserving jerks like Tainter -- and by extension you, his acolyte --
control over your fellows, what is? You guys are a walking, talking
Stalinist nightmare.

CONCLUSION:
The "order" that the scum at dieoff.org want to introduce is death, as
it was in Communist Russia, Cambodia under Pol Pot, and China under
Mao. Even today's Chinese are smarter than that. If we give in to
these necrophiliac creeps, for the first time in history we will have
a manmade energy catastrophe. I know who should die off before we
permit them to create a disaster, and it is those dangerous jerks at
dieoff.org.

An assumption without evidence. Please post a link that supports this insult
or apologize.

You already posted the link with the evidence, Dumbo:http://dieoff.org/..
You further posted the relevant quotations. If you don't agree with my
analysis, you must show us how energy policy can be removed from the
market and effectively policed without massive force. You must further
show how central planning will work better than it did in the
Communist Soviet Union or in China. The rest of us know the answer: it
can't work without mass murder.

Really, I know you can read and work the internet. I don't care
if you have had a stroke, you should not be acting the fool when it is obvious
that your ability to reason is still present.

Oh, I had a stroke almost forty years ago. I don't know where you ever
got the idea I am in any way impaired. As for my ability to reason, it
is precisely my analysis of the material you supplied which has
stopped you influencing impressionable minds with the lies of Price
and Tainter. I would call that a victory for reason over the enemies
of society.

Andre Jute
Nil carborundum illegitimi

Hail, good Jute-fellow! *And well met.

I see you're up to your usual sensible shenanigans. *I'm not sure
why you'd want to argue with another in the endless series of commie
****heads who seem to pollute the online world, but...communism
it is, and not even presented in a shiny new wrapper (as by Obama
et al) at that. *And I can't help but notice the myopic focus of those
who insist on considering the Earth as a closed system...which it
may indeed be on the micro level; however, on the macro level (which
this particular type of clod seems to be completely incapable of
perceiving) there are quadrillions of tonnes of resources floating
around waiting for some enterprising businessmen to snap them up,
and that's just in this solar system alone. *Metals, organics, gases,
water, unlimited solar power...and most of it eminently accessible
using technologies which have existed since the 1950s. *And anyone
who thinks that's balderdash should consider the reaction of someone
from, say, 1910, confronted with the prospect of obtaining petroleum
from a hole drilled a mile beneath the surface of the ocean: *"Absolutely
impossible - never happen." *Sure...only now, it's routine - and has been
for quite awhile.

Right about here is where the scoffers will boil out of the woodwork,
****ing and moaning about impossibilities and huge infrastructure
investments and whatnot. *Just like that dude from 1910. *These are
nearsighted people, and they will continue to **** on each other's
shoes.

At any rate, wherever you find someone advocating massive
control of any natural resource, you can bet your sweet arse
you've encountered a commie. *And that commie will almost
certainly be painted green, for within the green movement is
where most of them currently reside...although the Bear is
grumbling of late. *Perhaps it was just hibernating, eh? *;-)

Well - gotta go do my exercises. I severed my quadriceps
tendon a little more than a couple of months ago, and I'm currently
in the process of stretching the sewed-together remains
of it back into a functional system which will allow my knee
to bend more than the 90 degrees it is currently capable
of. *I fear that at some point I shall have to take up bicycle
riding as a form of rehabilitation; fortunately, that is at least
on the other side of the coming winter. *Until then, I shall
be content with hobbling around with my cane...when I'm not
styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high monster
which I can easily walk around in. *(I don't think I could drive
anything smaller, since my right leg would have to be much
more functional than it currently is to work the pedals in
one of those miniature green-weenie things which pass
for automobiles these days.) *I can, however, work the
pedals underneath my Hammond/Roland keyboard rig,
and I do have more time these days to practice... *;-)

Be well.

Lord Valve
alias Willie the Gimp

Yah, sometimes I get nostalgic for the days when I had a firing squad
all of my own to deal with commies and fellow travellers (what Lenin
described as "useful idiots") sans the wear and tear on my patience
that accompanies talking to these slow-learning congenital idiots.
Things really have come to a pass when a libertarian like me is more
liberal than the eco-lefties -- or perhaps my patience is just
shortening as I grow older, perhaps it always was like that.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 8, 5:04*pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Lord Valve" wrote in message

...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

You have a dumb "talent" for picking on the wrong guys, Clive. It must
come from being such a British Blimp. Having an opinion is one thing,
being rudely opinionated is another. -- Andre Jute

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 8, 5:41*pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Clive George wrote:
"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van. *Many of them
are in use as limousines, ambulances, etc. *And the CRD
turbo-diesel power plant will smoke tires - and get 27 MPG
on the highway, which ain't too shabby for something rated
to carry 1500 kg. *20 in the city. *Enjoy your Smart Car or
your Vespa, Clive. *It's "you."

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/sprinte...ngr/index.html

Real Men Drive Sprinters. *;-)

Lord Valve
Stylin'

I wonder if that yellow you can get the Sprinter in is a faithful
representation on my Mac's LCD screen. It looks a bit like the RAL1023
I used to order my Porsche painted, aka Giallo Trafico, a color chosen
to be extremely visible in the mirror of slower drivers.

Andre Jute
Author of Colour for Professional Communicators, in the series Graphic
Design in the Computer Age

[Peter Wieck]

Lemme see...

Three answers to the same issue.

Medication slipping again, Andre? Certainly your wit has failed
miserably if this is the best you can do.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Michael Press]

In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:

[...]

Yah, sometimes I get nostalgic for the days when I had a firing squad
all of my own to deal with commies and fellow travellers (what Lenin
described as "useful idiots") sans the wear and tear on my patience
that accompanies talking to these slow-learning congenital idiots.
Things really have come to a pass when a libertarian like me is more
liberal than the eco-lefties -- or perhaps my patience is just
shortening as I grow older, perhaps it always was like that.

Edward? Is that you?

--
Michael Press

[John Byrns]

In article ,
Lord Valve wrote:

Hail, good Jute-fellow! And well met.

I see you're up to your usual sensible shenanigans. I'm not sure
why you'd want to argue with another in the endless series of commie
****heads who seem to pollute the online world, but...communism
it is, and not even presented in a shiny new wrapper (as by Obama
et al) at that. And I can't help but notice the myopic focus of those
who insist on considering the Earth as a closed system...which it
may indeed be on the micro level; however, on the macro level (which
this particular type of clod seems to be completely incapable of
perceiving) there are quadrillions of tonnes of resources floating
around waiting for some enterprising businessmen to snap them up,
and that's just in this solar system alone. Metals, organics, gases,
water, unlimited solar power...and most of it eminently accessible
using technologies which have existed since the 1950s. And anyone
who thinks that's balderdash should consider the reaction of someone
from, say, 1910, confronted with the prospect of obtaining petroleum
from a hole drilled a mile beneath the surface of the ocean: "Absolutely
impossible - never happen." Sure...only now, it's routine - and has been
for quite awhile.

Right about here is where the scoffers will boil out of the woodwork,
****ing and moaning about impossibilities and huge infrastructure
investments and whatnot. Just like that dude from 1910. These are
nearsighted people, and they will continue to **** on each other's
shoes.

At any rate, wherever you find someone advocating massive
control of any natural resource, you can bet your sweet arse
you've encountered a commie. And that commie will almost
certainly be painted green, for within the green movement is
where most of them currently reside...although the Bear is
grumbling of late. Perhaps it was just hibernating, eh? ;-)

Well - gotta go do my exercises. I severed my quadriceps
tendon a little more than a couple of months ago, and I'm currently
in the process of stretching the sewed-together remains
of it back into a functional system which will allow my knee
to bend more than the 90 degrees it is currently capable
of.

Didn't your surgeons have one of those special tools that punches a special
pattern of holes into the tendon that allows it to be lengthened and then the
holes grow/fill in permanently lengthening the tendon?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[Patrick Turner]

Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van.

Your defence makes it all the funnier. It's a fast transit. It's amusing
that it's sold as personal transport, and even funnier if an owner thinks
it's got style - over here, nobody would choose to drive one outside work.
Even the blinged up minibus variants are seen as no more than utility or
maybe hen night transport.

They are quite efficient at carrying loads or a full complement of
passengers, so they're not all bad, but that's not really the image you're
aiming for, is it.

But you omitted to say the Mercedes van was designed and made in Europe,
where communism doesn't flourish anymore, but where so many think
very differently to communists, and are Green Minded in a big way
because they think its
very good for the economy and future of humanity.

I do worry about Lord Valve's knee though, ****e, only 90 degrees of
bend!

How is a decent law abiding yankee red-neck ever going to kick a
left wing arsole right up the arse nice, and hard!, with a troubly knee
like LV has?????

I'll chortle a little more when he describes his experience of human
nature
in all its dreadful uncaring manners when he begins to ride a bicycle in
America.

He'll soon find out about arsoles then. But never mind, Lance Armstrong,
the famaous tireless American who won the TDF 7 times
did fight a terrible bout of cancer during the TDF effort, and he
put up with the Europeans around him.
And he got run off the road by the jerks in Texas while he was training
in America.

America isn't very good at building road systems that allow good safe
access by cyclists.

Good to see LV back here and it gives spice to an otherwise dull news
group.....

Patrick Turner.

[Patrick Turner]

John Byrns wrote:

In article ,
Lord Valve wrote:

Hail, good Jute-fellow! And well met.

I see you're up to your usual sensible shenanigans. I'm not sure
why you'd want to argue with another in the endless series of commie
****heads who seem to pollute the online world, but...communism
it is, and not even presented in a shiny new wrapper (as by Obama
et al) at that. And I can't help but notice the myopic focus of those
who insist on considering the Earth as a closed system...which it
may indeed be on the micro level; however, on the macro level (which
this particular type of clod seems to be completely incapable of
perceiving) there are quadrillions of tonnes of resources floating
around waiting for some enterprising businessmen to snap them up,
and that's just in this solar system alone. Metals, organics, gases,
water, unlimited solar power...and most of it eminently accessible
using technologies which have existed since the 1950s. And anyone
who thinks that's balderdash should consider the reaction of someone
from, say, 1910, confronted with the prospect of obtaining petroleum
from a hole drilled a mile beneath the surface of the ocean: "Absolutely
impossible - never happen." Sure...only now, it's routine - and has been
for quite awhile.

Right about here is where the scoffers will boil out of the woodwork,
****ing and moaning about impossibilities and huge infrastructure
investments and whatnot. Just like that dude from 1910. These are
nearsighted people, and they will continue to **** on each other's
shoes.

At any rate, wherever you find someone advocating massive
control of any natural resource, you can bet your sweet arse
you've encountered a commie. And that commie will almost
certainly be painted green, for within the green movement is
where most of them currently reside...although the Bear is
grumbling of late. Perhaps it was just hibernating, eh? ;-)

Well - gotta go do my exercises. I severed my quadriceps
tendon a little more than a couple of months ago, and I'm currently
in the process of stretching the sewed-together remains
of it back into a functional system which will allow my knee
to bend more than the 90 degrees it is currently capable
of.

Didn't your surgeons have one of those special tools that punches a special
pattern of holes into the tendon that allows it to be lengthened and then the
holes grow/fill in permanently lengthening the tendon?

Yeah, them tha doctors can do some real geewhiz things these days.

But hope is at hand, and LV can always consult a better expert.

I snapped a cruciate ligament in one knee 42 years ago which made the
joint sloppy,
and eventually it wore a bit, and became chronically inflamed after a
week of
climbing ladders with buckets of cement in one hand for roof tile
repairs.
Then the good knee followed suit, so I hade 2 legs with less than 90D
bend.
The condition went on for years until I had a minor op to trim the
cartlidges,
and for the last 2 years I've been riding a bike 200km a week, and
making a lot of younger men look weak
and slow.
I've got 135D bend now, which is enough.
My weight went from 102Kg to 81Kg in 6 mths after changing diet to that
of the keen athlete
and doing the hard work on the bicycle.

If you don't keep fit, you pay a price, **** happens when the body
cannot
keep the appointments the brian makes for the body.

One has to chuck out all the BS and addopt a New Way to stay fit and
active.

And the older you get, the better you was.

Patrick Turner.

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[Lord Valve]

Patrick Turner wrote:

Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van.

Your defence makes it all the funnier. It's a fast transit. It's amusing
that it's sold as personal transport, and even funnier if an owner thinks
it's got style - over here, nobody would choose to drive one outside work.
Even the blinged up minibus variants are seen as no more than utility or
maybe hen night transport.

They are quite efficient at carrying loads or a full complement of
passengers, so they're not all bad, but that's not really the image you're
aiming for, is it.

But you omitted to say the Mercedes van was designed and made in Europe,
where communism doesn't flourish anymore, but where so many think
very differently to communists, and are Green Minded in a big way
because they think its very good for the economy and future of humanity.

Nothing wrong with green, as long as it functions as well as the old way.

If not, **** it. Especially if it costs more.

I do worry about Lord Valve's knee though, ****e, only 90 degrees of
bend!

How is a decent law abiding yankee red-neck ever going to kick a
left wing arsole right up the arse nice, and hard!, with a troubly knee
like LV has?????

Don't worry, I got two of 'em. The other one works just fine. ;-)

I'll chortle a little more when he describes his experience of human
nature
in all its dreadful uncaring manners when he begins to ride a bicycle in
America.

He'll soon find out about arsoles then. But never mind, Lance Armstrong,
the famaous tireless American who won the TDF 7 times
did fight a terrible bout of cancer during the TDF effort, and he
put up with the Europeans around him.
And he got run off the road by the jerks in Texas while he was training
in America.

Well, that's where the Sprinter comes in.

I reckon I could put maybe 20 bikes in the back of that monster.
So, what I plan to do is put just one - mine - in the back, and
drive it to a place where there are bicycle paths, no cars allowed.
Denver, fortunately, has *lots* of bike routes along creeks and rivers,
through parks, etc., such that I'll never need to encounter any motor
vehicles by riding on the streets. When I'm done, back into the
Sprinter goes the bike, and my (hopefully less) fat ass is homeward
bound.

America is ****in' HUGE, see, and most Americans (outside of
densely-packed downtown metropolitan areas) simply don't
consider bicycles as "transportation." Consequently, American
roads aren't designed for bicyclists. And - speaking as the
operator of a (rather large) motor vehicle, I *hate* ****ing
bicyclists and their disdain for the rules of the road, traffic
signals, lanes and so forth, and their snotty insistance that
it is *my* responsibilty to ensure that they survive their uppity
intrusions into my territory by not running over their ridiculous
asses with my Sprinter.

America isn't very good at building road systems that allow good safe
access by cyclists.

See above. ;-)

Good to see LV back here and it gives spice to an otherwise dull news
group.....

Well, hell, thanks. ;-)

I've been doing a lot of sitting around lately, although I'm
starting to become more mobile. Ouch.

Lord Valve
Alias Willie da Gimp

[Lord Valve]

Peter Wieck wrote:

On Sep 8, 1:00 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Lord Valve" wrote in message

...

Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van.

Your defence makes it all the funnier. It's a fast transit. It's amusing
that it's sold as personal transport, and even funnier if an owner thinks
it's got style - over here, nobody would choose to drive one outside work.
Even the blinged up minibus variants are seen as no more than utility or
maybe hen night transport.

They are quite efficient at carrying loads or a full complement of
passengers, so they're not all bad, but that's not really the image you're
aiming for, is it.

The Dodge Sprinter has a very nice 3L Mercedes diesel 6 engine mated
to a 5-speed autotrans in it, true. And in its RV or passenger-van
livery - very different shocks and springs- it has a decent ride -
for what it is.

Otherwise, it is a big, cheap box made to enclose the most space
inside the least sheet-metal. Accordingly, it has been adopted by DHL,
UPS and many other such services world-wide. Cheap and Capacious. Its
suspension is best-described as 'adequate' for large loads. And it
comes in several degrees of size, dual and single wheel rear axles and
so forth. But it is a *truck*. And it has about as much style as an
oppossum.

Put another way, don't get between a Mutual Admiration Society. Facts
are not relevant, stroking is the goal. Just watch it happen and pray
that you are never in so desperate a position.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hey, putzo -

Far as I can see, your function here is to crap on anything
anyone else likes, and then put yourself up as an expert
on that thing and explain why it's crap. My money sez you
never been within 100 feet of a Sprinter (excluding the last
piece of **** you copped on ebay, when it was delivered
by FedEx) and you've never driven one. This here's America,
son, and America's BIG and Americans have lots of stuff.
That's why we like trucks. In fact, I've never owned a car
in my whole ****in' life, and wouldn't. Can't haul nothin'
in some economy ****box, see? And if *you* (or that Euro-****
whose bulb is so dim he can't seem to figure out which side
of the ****in' ocean he lives on) are the last word on "style," God
help us all. Functional utility is plenty stylish if you own a business
like I do, and my family and my pack of coondogs love that
****in' truck. So shove it right where the sun don't shine,
Worthless - if your approval mattered more than a gnat's
ass to *anyone*, I shoot myself in the ****in' head.

Lord Valve
As Stylish as Necessary in Denver, Colorado

[Clive George]

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

This here's America,
son, and America's BIG and Americans have lots of stuff.
That's why we like trucks. In fact, I've never owned a car
in my whole ****in' life, and wouldn't. Can't haul nothin'
in some economy ****box, see?

It's not exactly a Ram 3500 or an F350. They're big hairy American man's
trucks. The Sprinter is a Euro tin-van, bland and inoffensive. Suitable for
a San Francisco florist or pageant organiser.

Functional utility is plenty stylish if you own a business
like I do, and my family and my pack of coondogs love that
****in' truck.

You can get help for that.

[JP]

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:49:30 -0600, Lord Valve
wrote:

And he got run off the road by the jerks in Texas while he was training
in America.

Well, that's where the Sprinter comes in.

I reckon I could put maybe 20 bikes in the back of that monster.
So, what I plan to do is put just one - mine - in the back, and
drive it to a place where there are bicycle paths, no cars allowed.
Denver, fortunately, has *lots* of bike routes along creeks and rivers,
through parks, etc., such that I'll never need to encounter any motor
vehicles by riding on the streets. When I'm done, back into the
Sprinter goes the bike, and my (hopefully less) fat ass is homeward
bound.
Best watch for little kids on that bike path...I ate concrete a few
times avoiding some little kid on a bike with the dumbassed parent
right there not watching...even shouting "Comeing up on the left " or
something like that doesn't help...hurts like a mf...especially arounf
that park in the Sheridan area..

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 9, 2:51*pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
And the older you get, the better you was.

Patrick Turner.

My pulse at waking is 42. That's lower than when I was an exceedingly
fit young athlete.

I reckon anyone over fifty who doesn't weigh at least ten pounds more
than he did at twenty has an unhealthy fascination with his body
shape. But, hell, here we stand among the roadies who shave their
legs, so perhaps we'll just look the other way.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 9, 8:04*pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote:
On Sep 8, 1:00 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Lord Valve" wrote in message

...

Clive George wrote:

"Lord Valve" wrote in message
...

when I'm not styling through Denver in my Sprinter, an 11-foot high
monster which I can easily walk around in.

Chortle. It's a delivery van. About as stylish as brown paper.

Chortle all you'd like, asswipe...

It's a magnificent vehicle, a Mercedes van.

Your defence makes it all the funnier. It's a fast transit. It's amusing
that it's sold as personal transport, and even funnier if an owner thinks
it's got style - over here, nobody would choose to drive one outside work.
Even the blinged up minibus variants are seen as no more than utility or
maybe hen night transport.

They are quite efficient at carrying loads or a full complement of
passengers, so they're not all bad, but that's not really the image you're
aiming for, is it.

The Dodge Sprinter has a very nice 3L Mercedes diesel 6 engine mated
to a 5-speed autotrans in it, true. And in its RV or passenger-van
livery - very different shocks and springs- *it has a decent ride -
for what it is.

Otherwise, it is a big, cheap box made to enclose the most space
inside the least sheet-metal. Accordingly, it has been adopted by DHL,
UPS and many other such services world-wide. Cheap and Capacious. Its
suspension is best-described as 'adequate' for large loads. And it
comes in several degrees of size, dual and single wheel rear axles and
so forth. But it is a *truck*. And it has about as much style as an
oppossum.

Put another way, don't get between a Mutual Admiration Society. Facts
are not relevant, stroking is the goal. Just watch it happen and pray
that you are never in so desperate a position.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hey, putzo -

Far as I can see, your function here is to crap on anything
anyone else likes, and then put yourself up as an expert
on that thing and explain why it's crap. *My money sez you
never been within 100 feet of a Sprinter (excluding the last
piece of **** you copped on ebay, when it was delivered
by FedEx) and you've never driven one. *This here's America,
son, and America's BIG and Americans have lots of stuff.
That's why we like trucks. *In fact, I've never owned a car
in my whole ****in' life, and wouldn't. *Can't haul nothin'
in some economy ****box, see? *And if *you* (or that Euro-****
whose bulb is so dim he can't seem to figure out which side
of the ****in' ocean he lives on) are the last word on "style," God
help us all. *

Worthless Wiecky is so named because he is useless and immoral; he's a
jumped-up janitor with a compulsion to drain the glee from other
people's hobbies. Clive George is different only in that he is a
British blimp; he feels that being British is adequate excuse for
being useless and immoral; I've lost count of the times this wretched
little man told people the components on their bikes are inadequate
because they didn't buy the most expensive.

Functional utility is plenty stylish if you own a business
like I do, and my family and my pack of coondogs love that
****in' truck. *So shove it right where the sun don't shine,
Worthless - if your approval mattered more than a gnat's
ass to *anyone*, I shoot myself in the ****in' head.

Lord Valve
As Stylish as Necessary in Denver, Colorado

Almost forty years ago, long before Mrs Thatcher arrived to save
Britain from going down the toilet, I ran our European operations out
of London for as many days a year as I could spend in Britain without
being hit with the punitive tax rate of 98% (that's not a misprint;
look it up) plus a wealth tax on assets which essentially meant that
everyone competent worked for the incompetent socialist government.
For some of the rest of the year I lived in Cologne. Paris or Turin
would have been more convenient for everyone else but I liked going to
the little opera houses that every German town of any size sported. We
had a Grosser Mercedes, the Popemobile 600, that we kept for my opera
outings because I liked holding meetings while I drove (well, I had to
really, as I never rose until lunchtime and after lunch it was time to
set off to dinner and the opera, so if you wanted to speak to me you
came to the opera with me), and you couldn't fly to the opera because
the airports weren't big enough to take the company jet -- hell, one
place with an American-built runway big enough to take the Lear had an
opera house but was too small to have a taxi, so we had to walk to the
opera house, my personal staff of miniskirts cursing in their high
heels. The commander of the nearby base sent a staff car to the opera
house to return us to the plane. After I totalled this
Panzergruppefuhrermobil when I ran out of road before managing to pass
an American Army convoy travellng at about 75mph on a B-road, I
ordered a VW Kombi and had a Porsche flat-six engine fitted; I
breathed on the suspension myself. It was a bit exciting braking hard
on a wet autobahn at high speed -- almost 140mph max, faster than the
Grosser -- but it was by far the best truck I ever owned (or had the
use of, since technically most of the cars I ever "owned" belonged to
the shareholders); it made Range Rovers look positively insipid even
after one threw out the limp Rover V8 engine (a superior Buick alloy
design the British ruined by tacky assembly) in favour of a
supercharged big-block Chevy.

Here's a big secret. A thoughtfully designed van has super
aerodynamics. This is because the centre of aerodynamic pressure
starts so far back and keeps moving back as it picks up speed. The
Kombi, for instance, had a CdA in the same bracket as a Jaguar E-type
but in some conditions it had superior handling because, for instance,
longitudinal corner radii were smaller.

Andre Jute
Author of Designing and Constructing Special Cars published by
Batsford in London and Bentley in Boston, several other editions.

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...

Clive George is different only in that he is a
British blimp; he feels that being British is adequate excuse for
being useless and immoral; I've lost count of the times this wretched
little man told people the components on their bikes are inadequate
because they didn't buy the most expensive.

Oh dear. Shall we return to our conversation from a while back? You're a
liar, and you've just proved it.

[Michael Press]

In article ,
JP wrote:

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:49:30 -0600, Lord Valve
wrote:

And he got run off the road by the jerks in Texas while he was training
in America.

Well, that's where the Sprinter comes in.

I reckon I could put maybe 20 bikes in the back of that monster.
So, what I plan to do is put just one - mine - in the back, and
drive it to a place where there are bicycle paths, no cars allowed.
Denver, fortunately, has *lots* of bike routes along creeks and rivers,
through parks, etc., such that I'll never need to encounter any motor
vehicles by riding on the streets. When I'm done, back into the
Sprinter goes the bike, and my (hopefully less) fat ass is homeward
bound.
Best watch for little kids on that bike path...I ate concrete a few
times avoiding some little kid on a bike with the dumbassed parent
right there not watching...even shouting "Comeing up on the left " or
something like that doesn't help...hurts like a mf...especially arounf
that park in the Sheridan area..

You were going too fast for conditions.
Your own fault, not theirs.

--
Michael Press

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 10, 12:24*am, "Clive George" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

Clive George is different only in that he is a
British blimp; he feels that being British is adequate excuse for
being useless and immoral; I've lost count of the times this wretched
little man told people the components on their bikes are inadequate
because they didn't buy the most expensive.

Oh dear. Shall we return to our conversation from a while back? You're a
liar, and you've just proved it.

Count the number of times you've used "bottom-of-the-range Shimano" or
a similar phrase, Clive, and you'll see I'm right. You're a snob and
that's all there is to it. Wouldn't be so bad if you had something to
be snobby about.

Andre Jute
Nothing but the best

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Sep 10, 12:24 am, "Clive George" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

Clive George is different only in that he is a
British blimp; he feels that being British is adequate excuse for
being useless and immoral; I've lost count of the times this wretched
little man told people the components on their bikes are inadequate
because they didn't buy the most expensive.

Oh dear. Shall we return to our conversation from a while back? You're a
liar, and you've just proved it.

Count the number of times you've used "bottom-of-the-range Shimano" or
a similar phrase, Clive, and you'll see I'm right.

Um, no. Don't try and wriggle your way out of it - count how many times I've
said only the most expensive will do. My pointing out that your Tourney BB
is bottom of the range doesn't count. (Personally I use UN5x, which is
mid-range Shimano - and an awful long way from being the most expensive).

You're a liar.

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 10, 1:32*am, "Clive George" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...



On Sep 10, 12:24 am, "Clive George" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

....

Clive George is different only in that he is a
British blimp; he feels that being British is adequate excuse for
being useless and immoral; I've lost count of the times this wretched
little man told people the components on their bikes are inadequate
because they didn't buy the most expensive.

Oh dear. Shall we return to our conversation from a while back? You're a
liar, and you've just proved it.

Count the number of times you've used "bottom-of-the-range Shimano" or
a similar phrase, Clive, and you'll see I'm right.

Um, no. Don't try and wriggle your way out of it - count how many times I've
said only the most expensive will do. My pointing out that your Tourney BB
is bottom of the range doesn't count. (Personally I use UN5x, which is
mid-range Shimano - and an awful long way from being the most expensive).

You're a liar.

I do beg your pardon, Clive. Let's amend the accusation to suit you
better:
Clive George is different only in that he is a British blimp; he feels
that being British is adequate excuse for being useless and immoral;
I've lost count of the times this wretched little man told people the
components on their bikes are inadequate because they didn't buy a
more expensive item.

Happy now?

Andre Jute
Bored

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

This thread started out discussing the survival of Mankind and maybe a
few women for breeding purposes only, of course -- this is after all a
cycling conference where real men shave their legs. Now it's descended
into Clive George trying to prove he isn't a Brit blimp. Thus passes
all flesh on the internet.

I'm out of it.

Andre Jute
Not nostalgic for the Union at all

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...

Clive George is different only in that he is a
British blimp; he feels that being British is adequate excuse for
being useless and immoral; I've lost count of the times this wretched
little man told people the components on their bikes are inadequate
because they didn't buy the most expensive.

Oh dear. Shall we return to our conversation from a while back? You're
a
liar, and you've just proved it.

Count the number of times you've used "bottom-of-the-range Shimano" or
a similar phrase, Clive, and you'll see I'm right.

Um, no. Don't try and wriggle your way out of it - count how many times
I've
said only the most expensive will do. My pointing out that your Tourney
BB
is bottom of the range doesn't count. (Personally I use UN5x, which is
mid-range Shimano - and an awful long way from being the most expensive).

You're a liar.

I do beg your pardon, Clive. Let's amend the accusation to suit you
better:
Clive George is different only in that he is a British blimp; he feels
that being British is adequate excuse for being useless and immoral;
I've lost count of the times this wretched little man told people the
components on their bikes are inadequate because they didn't buy a
more expensive item.

Happy now?

I'm happy, but mostly in this context because I'm still being amused by your
lying.

[Peter Wieck]

On Sep 9, 8:32*pm, "Clive George" wrote:

You're a liar.

And you just figured this out?

LV at least has an excuse. He makes an actual living at tube-related
stuff, so despite his questionable taste (and only that) and politics,
he does have a functional need for such a van. And so one might
understand why he would be enamoured of its function over its lack of
macho pretensions - and it has none.

Andre, on the other hand is a full-time poseur, liar and charlatan.
With received wisdom on tubes, likely on bicycles as well, although I
know so little about that subject that he could equally be the 'second
coming'. However, as the old expression goes: If you are so smart, why
aren't you rich? Applies in spades to Mr. Jute. Keep in mind that Mr.
Jute is 63 +/- years old... It is quite doubtful that he ran much of
anything in his 20s. However, he has lied and embellished for so many
years that he has forgotten his own lies... So, not even a very good
liar.

Once again, don't get in the way of a mutual admiration society (AKA:
Circle Jerk). Just stand back and let it happen, all the while
counting your blessings that you need not be part of it.

Oh, and expect the range of sock-puppets along shortly. Grey Glasser
et.al.. Andre tends to circle the wagon (singlular deliberate) when
his lack of clothes becomes obvious - yet even sadder as an emperor,
he isn't.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Tom Sherman]

"Lord Valve" (who?) anonymously snipes:
[...]
Far as I can see, your function here is to crap on anything
anyone else likes, and then put yourself up as an expert
on that thing and explain why it's crap. My money sez you
never been within 100 feet of a Sprinter (excluding the last
piece of **** you copped on ebay, when it was delivered
by FedEx) and you've never driven one. This here's America,
son, and America's BIG and Americans have lots of stuff.
That's why we like trucks. In fact, I've never owned a car
in my whole ****in' life, and wouldn't. Can't haul nothin'
in some economy ****box, see?...

I have moved six (6) times using nothing larger than a Honda Civic. Some
people have way too much crap.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

[Tom Sherman]

Peter Wieck wrote:
[...]
With received wisdom on tubes, likely on bicycles as well, although I
know so little about that subject that he could equally be the 'second
coming'.[...]

Most audiophiles are middle aged, pasty and overweight. Cycling would do
them much good.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

[Tom Sherman]

Lord Valve (who?) anonymously snipes:
[...]
Well, that's where the Sprinter comes in.

I reckon I could put maybe 20 bikes in the back of that monster.
So, what I plan to do is put just one - mine - in the back, and
drive it to a place where there are bicycle paths, no cars allowed.
Denver, fortunately, has *lots* of bike routes along creeks and rivers,
through parks, etc., such that I'll never need to encounter any motor
vehicles by riding on the streets. When I'm done, back into the
Sprinter goes the bike, and my (hopefully less) fat ass is homeward
bound.

Why not use the bike as transportation?

America is ****in' HUGE, see, and most Americans (outside of
densely-packed downtown metropolitan areas) simply don't
consider bicycles as "transportation."

Most USians are fat and ignorant, since they think they need 2 tons of
steel around them to go more than 50 feet.

Consequently, American
roads aren't designed for bicyclists. And - speaking as the
operator of a (rather large) motor vehicle, I *hate* ****ing
bicyclists and their disdain for the rules of the road, traffic
signals, lanes and so forth, and their snotty insistance that
it is *my* responsibilty to ensure that they survive their uppity
intrusions into my territory by not running over their ridiculous
asses with my Sprinter.

Dude, multi-use paths are actually more dangerous than vehicular cycling
on the roads. But with your attitude, we will not cry for you when you
discover this the hard way.

America isn't very good at building road systems that allow good safe
access by cyclists.[...]

The roads are fine. It is the anti-social cagers that are the problem.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

[Tom Sherman]

Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:

[...]

Yah, sometimes I get nostalgic for the days when I had a firing squad
all of my own to deal with commies and fellow travellers (what Lenin
described as "useful idiots") sans the wear and tear on my patience
that accompanies talking to these slow-learning congenital idiots.
Things really have come to a pass when a libertarian like me is more
liberal than the eco-lefties -- or perhaps my patience is just
shortening as I grow older, perhaps it always was like that.

Edward? Is that you?

Dolan?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 10, 3:31*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
"Lord Valve" (who?) anonymously snipes:

Lord Valve isn't anonymous. His nom de internet is instantly
connectable to his real name and to a business of the highest repute
in Denver. Fat Willie as his familiars call him is highly valued among
guitar performers, and among literate libertarians on the net for his
forthright expression and exquisite care with the language.

An anonymous poster is one to whom you cannot attach a name or an
address to serve a libel suit, and he is accordingly despicable.

By contrast Lord Valve stands behind the goods he sells and his
opinion, foursquare and with a gun in his hand when necessary,
furthermore backed by coonhounds trained to sniff out pinkos and lunch
on them. These days, with so many limpwristed legshavers around, that
makes Lord Valve a rare American original.

Andre Jute
A known quantity

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Sep 10, 3:42*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote:
[...]
With received wisdom on tubes, likely on bicycles as well, although I
know so little about that subject that he could equally be the 'second
coming'.[...]

If Worthless Wiecky knows tuppence worth about tubes no one on
rec.audio.tubes has ever been privileged to be let into secret.
Worthless arrived on RAT several years ago and in his first post
abused me and hasn't stopped since. Abusing me, or anyone I approve
of, is his entire profile. He makes zero contibution, so I just ignore
him. He's a netstalker, pure and simple.

Most audiophiles are middle aged, pasty and overweight. Cycling would do
them much good.

Indeed. Unfortunately for your generalization, the three audiophiles
who contributed to RBT recently, John Byrns, Patrick Turner and me,
are all hard cases, Patrick and I being constant cyclists to boot. We
fit only one of your particulars, in that we are indubitably
middleaged. But even that we do not consider to be pejorative, as all
it means is that we shall live to be well over ninety. Worthless
Wiecky published a photograph of himself; he fits all your particulars
(fat, ugly, unhealthy), except the controlling one: he's not an
audiophile, he's just a netstalker.

Andre Jute
Creator of Worthless Wieckless TM. All Rights Reserved by McCoy-Jute
Exploitation. Patent Pending. Licences still available for North Korea
and Lesotho. Our Attorneys are Bigger than Your Shysters.

[keithr]

Andre Jute wrote:

Here's a big secret. A thoughtfully designed van has super
aerodynamics. This is because the centre of aerodynamic pressure
starts so far back and keeps moving back as it picks up speed. The
Kombi, for instance, had a CdA in the same bracket as a Jaguar E-type
but in some conditions it had superior handling because, for instance,
longitudinal corner radii were smaller.

Andre Jute
Author of Designing and Constructing Special Cars published by
Batsford in London and Bentley in Boston, several other editions.

ROFL the original Kombi had a Cd of 0.76, later versions improved to
0.42, the E-type had a Cd of around 0.3 (depending on the model and
which source you believe). It gets even worse when you compare the CdA,
the Kombi had a far greater frontal area than the Jag.

As for a Kombi handling better than the Jag, the Jag was never the
best handling car of it's era, but surely you are joking, after all you
do claim to be an expert on the subject (and on every other subject
really). Like the old joke says "Anybody who believes that the Germans
have no sense of humour has never driven a Kombi in a side wind".

Keith

[keithr]

Lord Valve wrote:

This here's America,
son, and America's BIG and Americans have lots of stuff.
That's why we like trucks. In fact, I've never owned a car
in my whole ****in' life, and wouldn't. Can't haul nothin'
in some economy ****box, see? And if *you* (or that Euro-****
whose bulb is so dim he can't seem to figure out which side
of the ****in' ocean he lives on) are the last word on "style," God
help us all. Functional utility is plenty stylish if you own a business
like I do, and my family and my pack of coondogs love that
****in' truck. So shove it right where the sun don't shine,
Worthless - if your approval mattered more than a gnat's
ass to *anyone*, I shoot myself in the ****in' head.

Lord Valve
As Stylish as Necessary in Denver, Colorado

An excellent example of why Americans are so disliked around the world.

You are driving a cheap euro tin box designed by Mercedes for German
plumbers to travel in between sewer unblocking jobs.

If the Sprinter floats your boat then fine, but if you think that it
makes you special, you are going to end up looking stupid.

Keith

[Peter Wieck]

On Sep 9, 11:46*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Indeed. Unfortunately for your generalization, the three audiophiles
who contributed to RBT recently, John Byrns, Patrick Turner and me,
are all hard cases, Patrick and I being constant cyclists to boot.

Andre, with all due respect, your "contributions" to tubes are for the
most part unsubstantiated, unsupported attacks on anyone and anything
that has ever questioned your equally unsubstantiated and unsupported
claims past, present and future.

As to "sucking the pleasure out of the hobby", you manage that quite
nicely with your... well see "unsubstantiated and unsupported" above.

"Blimp" may be a cliche for a Brit of a certain age and type, but as
for you, a South African who ran to the most homogeneous country in
Europe out of pure fear (if you can generalize about others with no
evidence, so can I), you have no claim whatsoever to a superior mien.
Rather, you are a desperate, trembling little twit living through a
wildly inflated self-image supported by anecdotes of doubtful
veracity.

Again, as the old song goes, if you are so smart, how come you ain't
rich? Individuals with any sort of actual richness in their lives tend
not to be such immodest, whining little poseurs as you. Nor would they
have anyone believe that they ran the world as you quite often claim.
It is so sad that you derive your entire validation from venues such
as this.

One last - John Byrns, despite being an odious personality, knows more
about tube-craft than you have ever known even in your wildest
pretense. Not that he actually contributes much lately - mostly he
trolls for exception and chases obscure points. You and he do rear up
as injured virgin spinsters when your behavior is ever questioned, so
you do share that trait. Patrick, on the other hand, has an equanimity
and self-confidence that you would do well to emulate. My guess is
that because he largely practices what he preaches and largely enjoys
his life, as to most of the "others" here including me. Try it some
time. It will give you another perspective that might create a little
light in your life - where by all the evidence none exists now.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Peter Wieck]

On Sep 9, 10:42*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:

Most audiophiles are middle aged, pasty and overweight. Cycling would do
them much good.

Of course. And most individuals who ride bicycles (and enjoy tubes -
not quite the same thing as 'audiophile' by any means) are quite happy
to enjoy the ride without any sort of pretense or making a crusade of
it.

I enjoy tubes. I know quite a lot about the care and feeding of tube
equipment. Makes me a hobbyist, not a pundit. Hell, I can even do an
FM-stereo alignment on a tube tuner - so I have a bit of craft, not a
gift from the major and minor gods. Sometimes I can be helpful to
others in the hobby. A very small contribution to the good of it, no
more.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Jon Yaeger]

Yo' 'Dre,

C'mon down to my trailer park in Georgia. There's 100 just like him. His
kind is about as rare in these parts as kudzu.

J


By contrast Lord Valve stands behind the goods he sells and his
opinion, foursquare and with a gun in his hand when necessary,
furthermore backed by coonhounds trained to sniff out pinkos and lunch
on them. These days, with so many limpwristed legshavers around, that
makes Lord Valve a rare American original.

Andre Jute
A known quantity