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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones.
They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
On Sep 5, 10:17 am, "Powell" wrote:
I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? What are the lavs you've tried and what do you consider poor about their fidelity? Where were they placed with respect to the mouth? Three mics I have experience with are the Cos-11, AT MT830 and AT892. These are all very small diaphragm electrets so the self noise is going to be higher than a larger mic such as a Schoeps CMC641. They sound reasonable given their sizes. The AT892, being a headworn, puts the mic in a much better position near the mouth and sounds much better for the placement. Here is something to try: put ANY omni microphone down on the chest under the chin and record. Then move the same mic 8 to 12 inches out in front of the mouth just a little off axis and record again. I bet the chest position sounds muffled compared to in front of the mouth. That darn chin is getting in the way. bobs Bob Smith BS Studios we organize chaos http://www.bsstudios.com |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
On Sep 5, 2:17 pm, "Powell" wrote:
I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? Personally, I don't know why anybody uses Trams - except they're flat profile. Most guys I know agree. The Sanken COS 11's sound great, great reach maybe a bit bright, but have fragile wires and are prone to grounding issues when the paint scrapes off, which mainly can appear when you are using a couple of them on the same metal mic clip. I like the flatter, fatter sounding Sennheiser ME102's. As I recall they look about the same on frequency plots as the Senn "Mickey 2's" (MKE2's), but are smoother sounding in reality and sound better off axis. And the DPA 4060's are wonderful sounding, but I wish they still came with the steel cables for wires. Be careful about the adapters you use, there are -10 pads intergral to some of the adpaters and you have to make sure your suppliers gives you the right one. (We couldn't figure out at ABC why the DPA's were lower in output than the Sennheisers's, until I did a bit of tech reading.... You can easily get a pair of any of them for way under your budget I think. I like the DPA's best for sound, but the ME102's are probably a bit more durable. Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
wrote I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? What are the lavs you've tried and what do you consider poor about their fidelity? Sony EMC-77, Shure MX185, SM11 Where were they placed with respect to the mouth? Mostly shirt collar The AT892, being a headworn, puts the mic in a much better position near the mouth and sounds much better for the placement. I have a AKG C420 (head-set) a bit chunky for indoor TV production but perhaps I should try it outdoors (less obtrusive). |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
"WillStG" wrote I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? Personally, I don't know why anybody uses Trams - except they're flat profile. Most guys I know agree. The Sanken COS 11's sound great, great reach maybe a bit bright, but have fragile wires and are prone to grounding issues when the paint scrapes off, which mainly can appear when you are using a couple of them on the same metal mic clip. I like the flatter, fatter sounding Sennheiser ME102's. As I recall they look about the same on frequency plots as the Senn "Mickey 2's" (MKE2's), but are smoother sounding in reality and sound better off axis. And the DPA 4060's are wonderful sounding, but I wish they still came with the steel cables for wires. Be careful about the adapters you use, there are -10 pads intergral to some of the adpaters and you have to make sure your suppliers gives you the right one. (We couldn't figure out at ABC why the DPA's were lower in output than the Sennheisers's, until I did a bit of tech reading.... Thanks for the DPA referal... I'm researching them now. You can easily get a pair of any of them for way under your budget I think. I like the DPA's best for sound, but the ME102's are probably a bit more durable. So, COS-11 or DPA 4060 as your best pick? Are the sonic signatures readily apparent between them or close enough for straight editing? |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
On Sep 5, 2:17 pm, "Powell" wrote:
I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? If you have access to each use your ears to decide which one you like best.....but just as important is how will they be used, outside the closes, inside the cloths, what kind of cloths, indoors, outdoors, a man, a woman, etc. Create the situation/environment then listen again. If you like the Tram I'd recommend the Voice Technologies VT506 which is the same style better sounding and closer to a Sanken and comes with better built accessories. C |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
On Sep 7, 2:52 pm, C wrote:
On Sep 5, 2:17 pm, "Powell" wrote: I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? If you have access to each use your ears to decide which one you like best.....but just as important is how will they be used, outside the closes, inside the cloths, what kind of cloths, indoors, outdoors, a man, a woman, etc. Create the situation/environment then listen again. If you like the Tram I'd recommend the Voice Technologies VT506 which is the same style better sounding and closer to a Sanken and comes with better built accessories. C I have both of these and a few other lav types. Matching a mic to a voice and an environment is important w/ lavs as much as it is with regular mics, some voices will sound terrible on one and fine on another. How the mic reacts to the wardrobe it is attached to is another factor. The Tram is not one of my faves anymore, but they are still useful in some situations. The COS11 is a much newer design, and much more expensive. They have more high end boost and sometimes require less EQ when buried under clothing. However that high end sensitivity sounds harsh to me on many voices. The COS11 can also work very well as a plant mic. In addition to the DPA lavs, you might want to test drive some Countryman mics as well, esp. the B6 and B3. Philip Perkins |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50 have you used either?
On Sep 7, 12:05 am, "Powell" wrote:
"WillStG" wrote I've been renting and borrowing lavaliere microphones. They've all been poor fidelity performers. Now I would like to purchase a pair for business and personal use. They would need to operate in cold-wet environments (camera XH-A1 or RME preamp). For the most part (business) they need to excel in universal electrical compliance (comparability) with other studio mic-preamps. All uses are for the spoken word only. My max budget is $1K. The two lav's I'm most interested in are the Sanken COS-11 and TRAM TR-50. I'd consider purchasing one of each if sonic signature isn't readily apparent in production. Thoughts? Personally, I don't know why anybody uses Trams - except they're flat profile. Most guys I know agree. The Sanken COS 11's sound great, great reach maybe a bit bright, but have fragile wires and are prone to grounding issues when the paint scrapes off, which mainly can appear when you are using a couple of them on the same metal mic clip. I like the flatter, fatter sounding Sennheiser ME102's. As I recall they look about the same on frequency plots as the Senn "Mickey 2's" (MKE2's), but are smoother sounding in reality and sound better off axis. And the DPA 4060's are wonderful sounding, but I wish they still came with the steel cables for wires. Be careful about the adapters you use, there are -10 pads intergral to some of the adpaters and you have to make sure your suppliers gives you the right one. (We couldn't figure out at ABC why the DPA's were lower in output than the Sennheisers's, until I did a bit of tech reading.... Thanks for the DPA referal... I'm researching them now. You can easily get a pair of any of them for way under your budget I think. I like the DPA's best for sound, but the ME102's are probably a bit more durable. So, COS-11 or DPA 4060 as your best pick? Are the sonic signatures readily apparent between them or close enough for straight editing? All DPA or the Senn M102. For durability probably I'd choose the 102's as I've used them for years so I know how to work them. They're close, in sound to each other, but main thing is if I had several of either brand of them open in a mix they mic an _area_ well. My concept is if I have 5 or 6 lavs open in a talk show situation, I'm micing an area, not six individual people. Match levels carefully, don't try to do too much, don't overboost eq; you can avoid "hollow" sound with good mics and such practices. Will Miho NY TV/Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away... "Tom Waits" |
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